PM9 with safety

[Tascofeldman]

Just traded for a PM9 that has the safety and lci. I find the safety to be awkward, stiff and just plain unhandy. I understand it has the "enhanced" trigger but the pull is supposed to be 7.5#, same as the rest. Would it be as safe to carry with a round chambered, safety off as it is to carry one with no safety in the same condition. Do any of you carry with the safety off?


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[b4uqzme]

"enhanced" is just a little shorter...too short to carry safely? Your call. Obviously Kahr thinks you need to have a safety.

I'm not a big fan of the safety/lci models. Kinda defeats the purpose. But it's good to have options. I'd start plotting to sell it to someone who wants a safety then buy a regular CM9 --- they are on sale for around $300 now and a great value. JMHO.

Then again there are others who asked about shortening the trigger on a regular Kahr. You are effectively doing that if you carry yours safety off.

[TheTman]

I found myself wishing there was a safety on my CW40 when reholstering it when I wear it at 5:00, But I just stick my finger behind the trigger to make sure it doesn't snag on something I can't see. Other wise safety's are confusing, some go up, some go down, If they would develop a standard, that down means fire, and up is safe, that would help enormously.
My beside guns are revolvers or pistols with no safety to confuse someone that just woke up to some loud noise, or the dog raising hell.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ exactly. All my SD guns are no safeties in order to keep it simple: Kahrs = no safety, DA revolvers = no safeties, CZ = decocker (when decocked it's just like the others).

Still there are many who prefer safeties. I think Kahr really missed the boat with the 1911 crowd when they installed their safety upside down.

[jocko]

Just traded for a PM9 that has the safety and lci. I find the safety to be awkward, stiff and just plain unhandy. I understand it has the "enhanced" trigger but the pull is supposed to be 7.5#, same as the rest. Would it be as safe to carry with a round chambered, safety off as it is to carry one with no safety in the same condition. Do any of you carry with the safety off?


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make, ur trigger travel now is only a 1/4" before the boom thing happens. do u trust ur self enough over that???? thats why the safety is there. If u don't like the safety , just leave it off, no big deal . U have what 985 of us kahr owners have n vchoice of. A SAFETY.

I wish my PMJ9 had a safety PERIOD. I ain't in t this macho stuff like some are, Kahrs are simple period I really see no hindrance to a safety on a kahr or for that matter any gun. I have no doubt the safety on the enhanced version is a lawyer thing. Ur nto glock territory with this shooretr trigger. kahrs factory trigger system is around the 7.54# range, they will vary sume what to and after 200 or more rounds that trigger will be around the 6# stage to, so it is ur call to make. I never have read of anyone loosing their life due to not getting the safetyy off in time to defent them selves. I realy think we or some are very paranoid ovber having a safety on a gun. Off tht most every rife has a safety an d yet we don't complain aobut that. Just sayin. 1911 guys seem content..

[Tascofeldman]

It seems to me that they all want to prove JMB wrong about the operation of the safety on the 1911.


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[Bawanna]

I've never held one but I'd think it would be perfectly safe to carry with the safety off. Even if it gets down to 6# that's still a heavy carry trigger.
And 1/4" is still a considerable amount of travel, far more than a Glock or a M&P or 1911.

It's all in the indicator finger, I used to call it the pointer finger but somebody said it wasn't polite to point.

If it were mine I'd leave the safety off but practice sweeping it off anyhow, just in case it's ever left on.

I thought I heard that the safety model was primarily developed for certain states that required it, you know the ones. California comes to mind, MA.

[Bawanna]

It seems to me that they all want to prove JMB wrong about the operation of the safety on the 1911.


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I wish them good luck with that.

[jocko]

one can take that cockig indicator off, u know I wouldnever want toprove JMB wrong, he didn't know better back then, now we stillhave someof these guys who like some of the japs still in the hills who don't realize that their war is over.

One thing about those japs though, they are truly warriors they never gave up,,,, not ike Bowe Birdshit.

[Tascofeldman]

It seems to me that they all want to prove JMB wrong about the operation of the safety on the 1911.


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[jocko]

well colonel ur half right, the safety model is now legal in states that require it, along with the cocking indicator, but I think kahr was thinking about a safety version long before that. Just makes sense to me,,,why not offer both versions and let the buy decide. I dont see um in my gander mt ever though, but it is the more expensive PM9 version and it seems the cm versions are more prevelant...Just sayin

[Bawanna]

I guess being half right is better than being a half wit. Course maybe in my case I'm both.

[jocko]

I guess being half right is better than being a half wit. Course maybe in my case I'm both.

who ur asking. Just sayin:amflag:

[CJB]

It seems to me that they all want to prove JMB wrong about the operation of the safety on the 1911.


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Considering it was US Army Ordnance that requested the thumb safety, and then the grip safety, I'm trying to understand your point!

http://www.coltautos.com/images/1905.jpg
Colt Model 1905, .45acp civilian/commerical market

[jocko]

humm: cjb u just shoved that factious fact up a bunch of 1911 guys asses. Just sayin

[CJB]

Not I. History did it.

[Tascofeldman]

Well, machismo aside, safeties aren't a problem as such. The direction is. Mine either don't have a safety or it sweeps down to fire or de-cock. Muscle memory being what it is and proper training being being in repetition, the Kahr just is opposite of what I'm used to.


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[Bawanna]

The Smith & Wessons were always upside down too. I love those guns but hated the backwards safety, it's just wrong, not natural.

I usually ride the safety with my thumb and really all I need to do it kind of tense up and it just naturally pushes the safety down ready to go mode.

Not so with the Smiths.

Beretta's were the same way.

[muggsy]

IMHO a single action semi-automatic needs a safety even though JMB designed one without a safety. The Army was correct. Enough of our troops were killed and wounded without it being from their own guns. Anyone want to carry a 1911 cocked and unlocked? Not old Muggsy.

[O'Dell]

I wish mine had a shorter pull and a manual safety. My Kahrs and SIG's are my only pistols w/o one.

[O'Dell]

The Smith & Wessons were always upside down too. I love those guns but hated the backwards safety, it's just wrong, not natural.

I usually ride the safety with my thumb and really all I need to do it kind of tense up and it just naturally pushes the safety down ready to go mode.

Not so with the Smiths.

Beretta's were the same way.

I didn't know about the Beretta's, but I agree about the S&W's. Maybe that's why I only have one left, A CS45, instead of the six or seven 3rd gens I've owned. That, and the fact that burglars seem to like all metal S&W's too.

[CJB]

IMHO a single action semi-automatic needs a safety even though JMB designed one without a safety. The Army was correct. Enough of our troops were killed and wounded without it being from their own guns. Anyone want to carry a 1911 cocked and unlocked? Not old Muggsy.

I think the idea was to lower the hammer onto a round in the chamber, what we call Condition 2 carry.

[muggsy]

I can see two problems carrying in condition two. One when you lower the hammer and it slips from your grasp and two when you drop the gun carrying it in condition II.

[b4uqzme]

I can see two problems carrying in condition two. One when you lower the hammer and it slips from your grasp and two when you drop the gun carrying it in condition II.

^^^ reminds me of when I went to the doctor and complained that it hurts when I lift my arm above my shoulder. He said: "don't lift your arm above your shoulder". :rolleyes:

[CJB]

I can see two problems carrying in condition two. One when you lower the hammer and it slips from your grasp and two when you drop the gun carrying it in condition II.

Droppage not an issue as the FP return spring was/is strong enough to mitigate inertia.

Slippage always an isse....autoloader or revolver alike

[jocko]

I can see two problems carrying in condition two. One when you lower the hammer and it slips from your grasp and two when you drop the gun carrying it in condition II.

called carlessness dim-witt. Never a problem for ol jock. They can't give me a 1911:israel::israel:

[JERRY]

this gun does need all those gizmos on it to work properly while being safe to carry, however I applaud Kahr for making these guns with those OPTIONS for those in restrictive states.