poly gun design

[marcinstl]

sending my CW45 back to Kahr for probably a new poly frame, got me to thinking about poly guns. (yes, the house gun is still the old reliable Ruger P89). in looking at gun videos and pictures on gun sites, it seems some makers try to use the poly frame to do things like hold molded in rails and triggers. then it seems like other makers just use the poly frame as a basket to hold a metal chassis that does the work. comments, observations, theories?
(anybody have any experience with the CZ 2075 Rami BD?)

[berettabone]

It's one reason why I own nothing but metal...........................poly firearms, while lighter and easier to carry, well, I just don't trust them, when they take the beating that they do...................... would definitely prefer the metal inside poly frame myself.

[jocko]

u just got a bad frame. there is nutting wrong with poly frames. they certainl;y are the preferred guns today. WTF we see bad steel frames to. It just happens. I would hat e to guess the ratio of poly frames from kahr compared top their steel frames in total sales. I think it would blow ur mind.

glock seems happy with poly, Glock owners seem happoy with poly. Smith seems happy with their poly frames. the Ruger 89 is a big ass gun to, heavy, certainly durable, but certainly not polular by todays standards and wants.

People have to understand that kahrs run on steel inserts so much like glocks etc, so the poly portion is serving it purpose of holding in the steel inserts. We really have seen no issue with the steel inserts on kahrs poly guns. We have for sume reason seen some bad 45 kahr poly frames with the front inbedded insert being not correct . But we have not seen that in any of the utter poly kahrs made and kahr has to have a coulple hundred thousand of those poly guns out there now.

If my mind is right I think ruger once made a total poly gun that run on poly rails. They had no issues if I recall.

I think we might have even seen more of the all poly framed guns but I think the gun makers knew tha tthe general shooting public never coized up to an all poly gun (frame) with no real proof that it was not justy as good as the steel inserts. ust my 21 cents on that opinion to.:Amflag2:

.

[kerby9mm]

I'm with Mr BBone with the plastic gun thing. I have aluminun/scandium/titanium to make the gun lighter instead of polymer which To Me is a cheap way to lighten the frames & make big profit. I have 2 steel mk's but their weight is low enough not to bother ME. I don't have plastic holsters either only leather. That's just me.

[jocko]

and thats why we still see steel guns made to, for those who want um. certainly steel is more beautiful if done right over any poly gun . I have never seen a poly gun shot out. A steel kahr as we all know cost alot more to. I have no issues with steel, it to me seems like it is well accepte din the semi ownership part over a poly wheel gun. I won't put a steel gun in my front pocket as long as my PMJ9 does what it does now..

[berettabone]

Maybe, that's why you can't hit a target past 7yds. Heavier firearm, less recoil.;) Poly firearms aren't blowing up every day, I just don't trust them as much as metal, and I do like a bit less recoil because of the weight factor. You have to admit, the manufacturers sure can't pretty up a poly, like they can a steel/metal.

[garyb]

I don't see where one has it over the other as far as quality. If you like a heavier metal gun, carry steel. If you want a lighter gun to carry, that's why poly is being made....and very successfully. You'll hear of bad guns in every type, so saying poly is no good or is the best, is simply a personal preference just as your favorite cal is. I've found poly to be extremely reliable and I'm one of those guys that feels that if the stock on a rifle is not a good grade of wood, I don't want it. Then on the other hand, those new plastic stocks and fore ends sure are nice to have in nasty wet weather. Again, personal preference and hardly worth debating.

[berettabone]

...........back to bow and arrows..............................

[jocko]

Maybe, that's why you can't hit a target past 7yds. Heavier firearm, less recoil.;) Poly firearms aren't blowing up every day, I just don't trust them as much as metal, and I do like a bit less recoil because of the weight factor. You have to admit, the manufacturers sure can't pretty up a poly, like they can a steel/metal.

I can't hit anything past 7 yards with my K9 either. I had a Para carry 9 all metal, couldnt hit jack sh!t with it either. Beautful gun though. I have always felt the 1911's models are the most beautiful gun ever made, Just to me outdated. As CJB very well pointed out the first JMB gun that resembled the 1911 today had no safety on it. Without the 191's our illustrious colojnel would have nuttin to relly carve on either..:7: they do make nice show peaces IMO:D:D

[Longitude Zero]

It's one reason why I own nothing but metal...........................poly firearms, while lighter and easier to carry, well, I just don't trust them, when they take the beating that they do...................... would definitely prefer the metal inside poly frame myself.

I have participated in testing of poly frame guns vs all metal. All metal LOST. Try dropping a Beretta 92, S&W 59, S&W revolver, SIG P229 etc from 75' onto concrete and it being unusable. Same drop with a Glock it functioned. Point of material science education poly flexes and either fractures or returns to normal. All metal flexes and stays flexed.

[berettabone]

I have participated in testing of poly frame guns vs all metal. All metal LOST. Try dropping a Beretta 92, S&W 59, S&W revolver, SIG P229 etc from 75' onto concrete and it being unusable. Same drop with a Glock it functioned. Point of material science education poly flexes and either fractures or returns to normal. All metal flexes and stays flexed.
I'll keep that in mind, next time I drop one of my firearms from 75 feet:p

[jocko]

well there u go.words of wisdom. I remember back when glock threw a glock out of a plane and it worked fine. Part of their advertisement for durability. I always felt poly guns were a working mans guns, not showpeaces like someof the steel guns. Just my 21 cents.

I like steel gun, juyst do't want to carry one. I bet cops when polygun came to light, loved them to carry, considering all the utter sh!t they had to strap on their belt. I think I could throw my first wife out of a plane before I could drop a beretta or kModel 59. Never was fond of the Sigs' so I would strp it on her to see which bounces the highest. Just sayin

[getsome]

It's amazing how much the polymer flexes when a round is fired and that it doesn't crack all to pieces....Check out how much the guide rod bends... Interesting stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fr5ccyriJI

[b4uqzme]

sending my CW45 back to Kahr for probably a new poly frame, got me to thinking about poly guns. (yes, the house gun is still the old reliable Ruger P89). in looking at gun videos and pictures on gun sites, it seems some makers try to use the poly frame to do things like hold molded in rails and triggers. then it seems like other makers just use the poly frame as a basket to hold a metal chassis that does the work. comments, observations, theories?
(anybody have any experience with the CZ 2075 Rami BD?)


I greatly prefer metal handguns.

But there is no real reason...I just like them better. I think many times we try to justify our preferences by arguing that they are better in some way. I'm not shy about my reasons. I just like the fit, finish and feel of a metal gun better than plastic. But that doesn't mean they are better guns. In fact I recently found a plastic gun that meets my expectations...so it's the quality of the gun that counts...not the material IMHO.

FYI - OP -- I don't think they make the polymer Rami anymore...they are all alloy frames. I bought a CZ P-07.

[ltxi]

I admit to having a traditional bias when it comes to guns. I did not trust the Glocks when they first hit our market, as well as simply finding them ugly. Took awhile to wrap my mind around it but truth is form follows function. Or should, anyway.

[marcinstl]

Berettabone, you have a Ruger SpeedSix in 9mm? 2 3/4", Stainless? wow, you need to upgrade and modernize with something lighter and more capacity. if you need to fund a new gun I'd be willing to take that old clunker off your hands.

[marcinstl]

Be4uqzme,
" I don't think they make the polymer Rami anymore". no, CZ gave up on that, it's all metal now.
Glock 26 weighs 20 oz. unloaded, CZ Rami weighs 25oz unloaded, Bersa Thunder 9 UC weighs 23 oz. unloaded.
CW9 is 18 oz. unloaded, w/mag.. Ruger P89 is 32oz. unloaded. so I carry the CW9 and take the P89 to the range, like to shoot the P89. oh hell, I need at least 3 or 4 more guns.....

[berettabone]

Berettabone, you have a Ruger SpeedSix in 9mm? 2 3/4", Stainless? wow, you need to upgrade and modernize with something lighter and more capacity. if you need to fund a new gun I'd be willing to take that old clunker off your hands.
I bet you would, but, no thanks............I love that firearm too much, and it took me too long to find one. I would OWB carry it. I like my MK for carry. If I can't get the job done in 6 or 7 shots, I'm in the wrong place.;)

[kerby9mm]

I think polymer guns are good guns its just as stated above personal preference. It has been proven polymer works as good as anything else does. If I had to buy a poly gun or I would die it would be a hkp2000sk because they aren't as ugly as blocks.

[berettabone]

I think polymer guns are good guns its just as stated above personal preference. It has been proven polymer works as good as anything else does. If I had to buy a poly gun or I would die it would be a hkp2000sk because they aren't as ugly as blocks.
That would be one of my choices alsohttp://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[mr surveyor]

Berettabone, you have a Ruger SpeedSix in 9mm? 2 3/4", Stainless? wow, you need to upgrade and modernize with something lighter and more capacity. if you need to fund a new gun I'd be willing to take that old clunker off your hands.



I like the way this guy thinks:)

As for me .... I only have two plastic fantastics left, and will replace them both with more "real guns" at some point before I die. Then again, I don't like aluminum frames either. The light weights just don't seem to balance well, or buffer recoil as well as real gun steel.

Just me. And I had to "mark a thread" here.:D

JD

[JohnR]

I love steel and alloy frames, but what finally made me hate plastic less was my PM45. It's light, recoil is not bad at all, and it points naturally for me. My next venture into plastic is a Bersa BP9cc.

[marcinstl]

Berettabone,
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11380696/revolvers-for-sale/ruger-9mm-double-action-revolver-in-the-box went for $700. I'll keep looking. thanks for posting the pictures. what a beauty.

[marcinstl]

I get a kick out of Glock and all of the Glocky wannabes, keeps engineers and lawyers in a job. just because the gun has a poly frame and is striker fired is it Glocky? is a Kahr Glocky? how about an M&P? (hehehehehe).
2 guns I looked at(not buying) that are poly framed and not glocky are the true DAO, hammer fired, Sig 250 and the SCCY. both of these use the poly frame as a basket. the Sig 250 has the serial number of the modular drop in piece and the basket is interchangeable with other sizes. a real kit gun, I guess.

[berettabone]

That's a nice one. They come up a lot in the other calibers but not so much in 9. I still have the original box, clips, grips................157 serial #. I have looked at the Sig P290, and if it wasn't for the trigger..........I am not sure if you could make it better?

[marcinstl]

the Sig 290? that's a DAO subcompact with a 9-10lbs. trigger pull? yikes! that's like the pull on an LCR. I can't do that. it took me 500 rounds to figure out the Kahr trigger and that's a long, smooth pull in the 6-7 lbs. range (5-6 with a Wolff striker spring). I've shot Glocks at the range and like the "single action" feel. I'd like to try the Bersa BP9 (4.5 lbs. pull). the easier it is to break the shot, the more accurate the shot? guns like that would require a lot of practice on my part, so as to not have accidental or unintended shots.

[Longitude Zero]

I have looked at the Sig P290, and if it wasn't for the trigger..........I am not sure if you could make it better?

Some have tried and to my knowledge none have succeeded.

[getsome]

Besides a crappy trigger the thing weighs as much as a brick...

[jocko]

a shame, kida dimms the SIG line even. one would think that they would have known this was not right and smoothed it out before letting it out and hoping no one would say anything about it. Sig sells alot due to their name, and quality products. evidently te 290 is not in that league "yet"

Just seems that none of the big name gun makers areexcluded from complaints from gun owners. Some of this stuff we owners just hav eto do ourselves to make it what we want...

[O'Dell]

Out of my fifteen pistols seven are polymer, 3 Kahrs, 3 HK's, and a LCP. Two more are steel, MK40 and Detonics, and the other 6 are aluminum. About 98% of the time, my carry gun is polymer. Do I trust them, of course. HK pioneered the polymer frame, and their pistols are some of the most reliable guns available. Do I think the metal framed guns look better, again, of course.

[muggsy]

The wonderful thing about the U.S. of A. is that you can have what ever you want. I can remember a time when people thought that the automobile would never replace the horse. There ain't one damn horse left on my street. Giddy-up. :)

[Bawanna]

You make that sound like it's a good thing?

[jeepster09]

Be4uqzme,
" I don't think they make the polymer Rami anymore". no, CZ gave up on that, it's all metal now.
Glock 26 weighs 20 oz. unloaded, CZ Rami weighs 25oz unloaded, Bersa Thunder 9 UC weighs 23 oz. unloaded.
CW9 is 18 oz. unloaded, w/mag.. Ruger P89 is 32oz. unloaded. so I carry the CW9 and take the P89 to the range, like to shoot the P89. oh hell, I need at least 3 or 4 more guns.....

Hard to beat a nice CZ Rami.....

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0937-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/jeepster09/media/IMG_0937-1.jpg.html)

[jeepster09]

Some have tried and to my knowledge none have succeeded.


I like mine after fixing trigger, here is kit to do it:

http://gallowayprecision.com/sig-sauer/p290/

[marcinstl]

when the Glock 42 came out some of the youtube reviewers were doing the "honey, I shrunk the kids" joke. That's exactly what I wanted Ruger to do-- shrink the P89. that didn't work and they ended up with the POS LC9.
gun design/selection is all about compromise. I can understand why a younger, athletic person would be comfortable with 4.5 lbs. pull, striker fired pistol. I can also understand why some of my 70 yr. old friends still lug around their 1911. for me a DA/SA pistol is just a higher capacity revolver. so far, my CW9 is working just fine and I can shot it ok.
(please don't post a picture of a S&W 327 Nightguard, 8 shot .357, I get to emotional when I see that. $1300, hmmmph!)

[jeepster09]

Will a S&W 329 work....

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1355.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/jeepster09/media/IMG_1355.jpg.html)

[kerby9mm]

Jeepster do you have any guns that aren't green? I see a lot of your are green do you do it yourself. Is the magnaport or quadraport I see help with the 44mags. I have a 329 night guard that's why I ask.

[jeepster09]

Porting on the 329 reduced muzzle flip....but....it now is like shooting an RPG....strait back impact with no flip and it is brutal with hot loads.
I like Duracoating and is done at:

http://www.ahlmans.com/duracoat.html

[marcinstl]

I guess if this thread is about poly gun design, somebody could say something about poly revolvers?
for me, a fun day at the range is renting a 3-4" .357 revolver and shooting target load .38spl. if it's a 40 oz. gun like a 686 or GP100 there's no recoil. there is also no brass flying around and no slide movement, for me, this means fun shooting and no flinch/blink.
here's a question for the engineers-- how do you put the trigger of a well used S&W686 into a 14oz. poly revolver?

[berettabone]

Besides a crappy trigger the thing weighs as much as a brick...
So does my MK..............;)

[kerby9mm]

As to poly revolvers I saw a utube on the poly ruger 357 snub & the characters in it noted that after not many rounds it had flame cutting on the top strap.

[berettabone]

Hard to beat a nice CZ Rami.....

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0937-1.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/jeepster09/media/IMG_0937-1.jpg.html)
How's the trigger on that Rami?????????????????

[gb6491]

As to poly revolvers I saw a utube on the poly ruger 357 snub & the characters in it noted that after not many rounds it had flame cutting on the top strap.
Do you have a link to that video?
I ask because that section of the .357 LCR frame is made of stainless steel (see "monolithic frame" here (http://ruger.com/products/lcr/features.html#)).
Regards,
Greg

[jeepster09]

How's the trigger on that Rami?????????????????

Long but smooth.

[marcinstl]

"How's the trigger on that Rami??"
"Long but smooth".
so there's a good chance you'll never do a Plaxico Burress or a Tex Grebner or take out several bystanders like the NYC police did?
(google those names if you don't know the stories). (many more stories out there. go to youtube and search for "gun fail").

[Armybrat]

Love my little poly Kahr...

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/Armybrat%20Album1/guns072.jpg

But she ain't quite as purty as my Springer GI...

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/MoreWinchesters.jpg