P380 function concern - any others experiencing?

[mac1]

Recently purchased a new P380 to replace another brand of pocket pistol. I have and have had other Kahrs, and this problem was new to me...


If the striker is dropped on an empty chamber, such as a failure to fire drill or on an empty chamber caused by high thumb hold (yes, a 1911 shooter) keeping the slide stop depressed on empty magazine, the striker will drop with enough force to stick it in the breech face - it sticks hard enough to prevent a round from feeding if the magazine is exchanged and the slide cycled.:eek: If the shooter is performing a standard failure to fire drill where they drop the striker on an empty chamber, tap the magazine and then cycle the slide, the striker will stick hard enough to again prevent a round from feeding - the striker tip blocks the rim from sliding up the breech face.


While I found this rather (extremely, extremely) concerning; since having to double cycle the slide - once to get the striker to reset and then again, after seating a fresh magazine, to chamber a round - not what one would want to do during a critical incident - Kahr said that this is how the gun works :confused: and they don't have any concerns with this, it's because of the small size of the gun. (??) If the shooter simply inserts a mag, or does the "tap, rack, ready" drill, the striker will cause a serious jam that requires locking the slide open, stripping the magazine, dropping the slide, insert magazine and then cycle the slide again...


Other than this - well made little pistol, nice to have sights that are useful and happy with other Kahrs... just don't know if I can trust my life to this design.:mad::confused::eek:

[Bawanna]

I don't buy it. I'd detail strip the slide. There must be some junk in the striker channel, and /or the drop safety plunger.

There's a detailed guide for taking the top end apart. The Ripley retractor coat hanger trick is a very good one.

Things want to jump out at ya but if you approach it per the instructions it's not bad at all.

A quick test which you probably already know is like on a glock. Take the slide off, hold the drop safety plunger down with your thumb and shake it. See if it rattles. Rattle is good, no rattle, some junk in there.

Only other thing that comes to mind is if the striker hole is for some reason too small, not machined properly etc.

[muggsy]

I don't see how that can happen. When the slide is cycled as it returns to battery the striker is recaptured and held in a partially cocked condition. The striker should retract from the breech face as the slide comes forward. See the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRHpolEC_Y&playnext=1&list=PL9C885DAED1AA2EC2&feature=results_main

[mac1]

Bawanna - I didn't want to do anything until I heard from Kahr other than disassembling and cleaning - after an email exchange, got a call from Kahr and that's when I was told there's nothing wrong with it, that's how the P380 is designed:confused:. I tried to get an answer on why they thought the striker sticking in the breech face was within design standards, but to no avail. I mean sticking - it jams in there so hard you can't push it back with a finger tip - you have to cycle the slide fully - all the way closed to get the striker to reset or pull on the striker from the bottom of the slide. By the time we said goodbye, I was ready to sell all things Kahr! Trying to calm down as my P9 has been great.


As a recently retired LE officer (wildlife), firearms instructor, Glock armorer and S&W M&P armorer, I wasn't very happy with the answer. I've had it apart a few times, polished the striker tip, cleaned everything, lubed - still the same - if the striker is dropped on an empty chamber, it protrudes (normal) and sticks (not normal) in the hole in the breech face. If there's a round in the chamber, it can't protrude far enough to stick and thus no sticking, no problem.


Sure seems like a fixable issue for production - fix the taper of the striker or give it a square shoulder so that it can't wedge itself in. I'll be seeing my gunsmith tomorrow - he's interested in all of this as he carries a P380 too - he said he'd never tried the failure to fire immediate action drill with his...


Next step is to have the slide stop thinned down to see if that helps with keeping my thumb from preventing it from engaging the slide with an empty magazine.

[mac1]

the striker is still sticking out of the breech face/stuck there - friction. Remember , this is when the striker is dropped on an empty chamber, then cycled to feed a new round - the rim of the round being fed contacts the tip of the striker sticking out of the breech face and is prevented from sliding up the breech face and feeding - it's just jammed there. This happens before the slide travels far enough forward for the striker to reengage with the cocking cam. Have pictures if you want to see what it looks like. Kahr said it's a necessary design thing and that they don't see a problem with with... oh, boy.

[mmncw]

Interesting that you bring this up - observed the same thing with my P380, but not on my PM40. Never been able to discern why one but not the other, just adapted to cycling the slide an extra time after pulling the trigger on an empty chamber.

[Whaleman]

I don't believe you will void the warranty detail striping the slide. I bet if you do the problem will be easy to see. Mine does not do this. Mine has been back 3 times and finally got a new frame after light strikes and a broken striker. Now I have maybe 600 perfect rounds in a row. Dan

[topgun1953]

I get the impression that Kahr doesn't understand that it is stuck there. The 'way its designed" is that the striker retracts as the slide comes forward. That being the case, I believe the striker should be retracted before the next round comes up the breech. When it is stuck, try locking the slide back and then attempt to PULL the striker back. It should easily come back. If not, you have a problem.

I've experienced a broken striker in a CW380 and TWO broken strikers in a P380 (purchased last Feb). Not sure why I've broken them, I have my P380 in transit to me at the moment but won't receive it until the 7th because I'm out of town.
When the CW's broke, I did take apart the slide and found what looked like metal slag at the end of the channel. I couldn't remove it and I'm 'afraid' to take it apart since its been returned.

[muggsy]

With all of the perceived faults both of my Kahr pistols perform flawlessly.

[gun papa]

Both of my kahr s do this when dry fired. The striker stays forward as the slide retracts and the striker is recaptured and held rearward as the slide moves forward into battery.

[mac1]

[QUOTE=topgun1953;308307]I get the impression that Kahr doesn't understand that it is stuck there. The 'way its designed" is that the striker retracts as the slide comes forward. That being the case, I believe the striker should be retracted before the next round comes up the breech. When it is stuck, try locking the slide back and then attempt to PULL the striker back. It should easily come back. If not, you have a problem.

I have written to Kahr, included pictures and tried (possibly in vain) to explain that it is sticking/jammed/stuck/etc and it just doesn't seem to be getting through. I talked with Jay at Kahr and tried and tried to explain that the striker is sticking and sticking hard in the striker hole in the slide breech face. When I would ask why they considered this normal - silence, when I asked about the safety concerns of this situation - a gun that will jam up during a standard immediate action process, again, silence. Had to ask a couple times if he was still there. Finally just thanked him for being less than helpful and said goodbye. :mad::mad:

No matter how many times I said that the striker was sticking so hard that it couldn't be pushed back with a finger - "that's the way it's designed'"... It's sticking and preventing a round from feeding - '"that's the way it's designed'"... you can't do a standard failure to fire malfunction clearance practice (as required as part of some agency qualifications), "that's the way it's designed"... Having carried a gun for work and personal protection for almost three decades, I take the proper function very seriously. I do carry a spare magazine with my pocket pistol and just might have to reload it under extreme stress someday - not sure if I want it to be a gun that has the potential to jam up like the P380 - a shame, since I've had good luck with several other Kahr pistols.

Still trying to figure out if I'm going to keep any Kahr product after this - even though I've had great luck with my P9, which I carry almost every day. (Making a DW ECO look a lot better:p!)

I told them I understand that the striker doesn't rebound and that it is normal for it to protrude from the breech face - but how is it considered normal that it sticks or jams to the point that it can't be pushed out with a finger, that the slide has to be cycled again so the cocking cam catches it.

*again, this only happens if the striker is dropped on an empty chamber and then cycled to feed a round* Bet I'm not the only one that shoots high thumbs and prevents the slide stop from engaging with empty magazine...

If there is a round in the chamber, the striker can't protrude far enough to stick - the round limits striker travel - and I know this is how it's designed. When the striker sticks due to an empty chamber and then the slide is racked with a loaded magazine in place, the rim contacts and jams on the stuck striker BEFORE the striker engages with the cocking cam. Possibly due to the very compact design - but it sure looks like a simple fix so it can't stick or jam in the striker hole - just changing the opening a bit or giving the striker a shoulder instead of long taper so that it would hit a shelf and not be able to get wedged or jammed in the channel...

[topgun1953]

With all of the perceived faults both of my Kahr pistols perform flawlessly.I love my 380's.... That's why I have two of them now. Although an exchange of one for a larger caliber might be in the future for the CW380. Fun guns to shoot.

[kerby9mm]

I have tried this slowly & the strikers on both of my mk's retract before coming into contact with the base of the round. When firing I can't see how the pin could be through the breechface.

[mac1]

According to Kahr, it's only with the P380 - small size ends up having the round feeding up hitting the striker (if it's been dropped on an empty chamber and sticks or gets stuck like mine does) before the cocking cam engages the striker, resetting it. Deputy friend just stopped by - his P380 does the same thing, except the striker doesn't stick nearly as bad as mine does. Have about 150 rounds through it - hoping it will break in and stop sticking. If not, guess it's getting a trip back east to see the folks that built it!