Needing some help with an OLD gun.....

[JustinN]

I'm looking for information on this recently acquired family heirloom. I know it belonged to my great great great grandfather, who was born in the early 1800s. Not sure exactly when he acquired it, but it has been passed down through the family. The gun is currently .45 caliber, though I was told it was bored out after being shot so much it had become loose. It has molds for making round ball as well as round nose bullets for it, along with the old powder horn. The gun weighs in at just over 19 pounds, because it has a HUGE barrel on it. The front sight, which is broken, is an ivory blade. I can't make out the gun maker's stamp in the top of the barrel. Any info about it would be awesome.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/819/9nzc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/9nzc5.jpg/)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/819/0ww6w.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/0ww6w.jpg/)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/840/3qvt.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/3qvt.jpg/)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/850/r29v.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/r29v.jpg/)

[yqtszhj]

I have no information but that rifle is awesome. You're a fortunate person getting it.

[Bawanna]

Wowza! That's an awful lot of barrel for a 45 let alone whatever it was before which I would guess was 36?

The US adopted the percussion rifle in 1840 give or take so it's after that I would guess. There were many rifle makers back then, many of which didn't put any marking on their rifles, so sometimes it's darn hard to track em down.

Is it still rifled or is it smooth bore.

19#, that's a heap of rifle.

It sure looks Hawkins but in those days most were very similar.

Love to see that thing in person. I bet it's just dripping history.

[tv_racin_fan]

That barrel and stock says some sort of target rifle.

[Bawanna]

I agree. The butt plate is almost like a Schutzen rifle, perhaps a recent immigrant.

Hence the incredibly heavy barrel along with being shot so much. Sure like to see it up close.

[muggsy]

If you remove the barrel wedge and barrel you may find some info on the underside of the barrel. I can make out an O-J on the top of the barrel, but the rest isn't easy to see. Can you make it out?

[muggsy]

This looks very similar.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.berdansharpshoot er.org%2Ftarget_scopes.htm&tbnid=GTyrx_fsB_ZD4M:&docid=infcxsnluq0k-M&h=207&w=780

http://www.berdansharpshooter.org/target_scopes.htm

[JustinN]

It is still rifled, and apperently he won lots of turkey shoots with the thing. It was definitely for targets, not lugging around. Has a set trigger with the actual trigger being a straight trigger that currently is set to a hair above nothing.

I too can't make out the stamp in the top of the barrel. Eventually I may try pulling it to see if there is more underneath. The butt plate and trigger guard look to be brass, and the end cap and other metal decoration possibly pewter or something.

[garyb]

It is definitely not a Hawken because it has a drum for the nipple instead of a snail and would say Hawken on it. It is most definitely a custom target gun with a modified Meacham Schuetzen styled butt plate. I would say it is a custom made target gun with pewter and it looks like walnut. I say custom target gun because the trigger guard is one I'm very fond of, to give a better finger grip to allow more control of the trigger finger....plus the custom butt plate....plus the extra heavy barrel which lends itself to good target shooting....not to forget the way the sight was done. Ivory inlays in the front sight are common to good target rifles because they add contrast and make it easier to pick up the front sight. Like a sight within a sight. I'm guessing your ancestor had it custom made for himself for shoots. JMO. I believe it is a very good gun and has value. It may be difficult to identify the gun maker if it is a private maker. Be sure that it is not loaded, by firing a cap with the muzzle in a safe direction. Then carefully clean it up and oil it well. I like to leave an oiled patch on the end of the ramrod, down the barrel. Better pics with close ups would be very helpful.

Possibly a copy of some ideas from a Waadtlander (Swiss made) Target Rifle which was made in 45cal (but without the elaborate butt plate, trigger guard or peep sight....kind of hard to say). Some guys liked certain features of popular target guns and would have their own rifle built to their own specs.
It could simply be a Plains Rifle too. Butt plate may appear to be like a Schuetzen, but then again, the radical curve was not uncommon for that period either. So the curve of the butt plate can fool you into thinking it was like a Schuetzen at first glance.
Have it appraised.

[muggsy]

It would be nice to see this gun in the American Rifleman, in the "I have this old gun section." I'd say that you have at least a $1,000.00 dollar gun there. You might want to send the pictures to these folks, too. They may be able to ID your gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Muzzle_Loading_Rifle_Association

[JustinN]

Thanks for all the info garb, and I will see what I can find out. What sort of other pics/closeups would you like to figure out more?

I'll check with them, thanks Muggsy. I am not sure where you even take a gun to get it appraised, etc, though the value really doesn't matter, as it is a huge sentimental piece. My Dad told me when the would go up to see family around the holidays, and they'd be gone a week or two, my Grandpa would wrap that rifle in a blanket and take it with them, not to shoot, or show off, but he didn't want to leave it behind in case something happened to their house while they were gone. It is definitly a neat piece of history, as well as family history.

[jlottmc]

Just an FYI, that butt plate and curve are meant to be fired not from the shoulder, but from the top of the bi-cep, and across the chest accordingly. This was common in target shooting circles. Being the trigger is the front trigger, that is unusual, usually, the front trigger sets the rear, and yes they are super light and crisp.

[bob98366]

JustinN, I am so jealous. Your's is in better condition but almost identical to our family's heirloom that was stolen in a house break in in 1993 and never recovered. I do still have the powder horn, lead casting molds, percussion caps and a buckskin shoulder bag. Ours was last shot in the 1930's by my dad and his cousin, both descendants of the original buyer, my gggrandfather in West Virginia in the 1800's. Dad said it was very accurate and that they used it to shoot game for the table. Sorry I do not have any info on the manufacturer, etc., but the calibre was not 45, from memory probably around 38 or 40.