Why is being "made" assumed to be a bad thing?

[DavidS]

I have seen a multitude of comments saying that being "made" (identified as carrying a weapon) is a bad thing because the person "made" will be the first targeted by the bad guy. However, I have been chewing on this for a while and have a somewhat of a dilemma on whether it is a bad thing or a good thing to be "made".

I am going to make one assumption here. Excluding gang violence, a very small percent of gun violence crimes were initiated with the intent of shooting the victim(s). I have been unsuccessful in verifying or disproving my assumption, so if anyone has a reliable source of statistics, please post.

If my assumption is correct, then it is my opinion that being "made" will cause the bad guy to think twice about committing the intended crime at that location and will move on to a different location rather than become involved in gun-play.

The odds being very low that Joe would be involved in a crime where the bad guy was going to shoot no matter what, maybe the average Joe is better off being "made" and thus deterring the crime at the beginning. If shooting does occur, the bad guy probably is keeping and eye on Joe and the shooting will likely not be initiated by Joe, and the bad guy will first have to deal with whomever did.

Comments?

[Rob K]

Sorry, but I believe in the element of surprise. Extreme case scenario, the BG knows you have a gun,maybe he doesn't, maybe he is well under the influence of mind altering drugs which is all too common in crime scenes.If he wants your gun he knows if he comes up and blind sides you, he now has a gun to sell or use. It's a "catch 22" question. Damned if you do;damned if you don't.In my opinion, CCW means just that.

[DavidS]

Sorry, but I believe in the element of surprise. Extreme case scenario, the BG knows you have a gun,maybe he doesn't, maybe he is well under the influence of mind altering drugs which is all too common in crime scenes.If he wants your gun he knows if he comes up and blind sides you, he now has a gun to sell or use. It's a "catch 22" question. Damned if you do;damned if you don't.In my opinion, CCW means just that.
Becoming a target of opportunity as opposed to being involved in a planned crime. One thing I had not thought of, glad I asked.

[knkali]

David,
you are trying to use logic when BGs behave illogically. I encourage you to read the book(s) Meditations On Violence. It will drive this home even more. I wont go into details about my encounters but the ONLY time I let my gun be more visible than not is when the wolf pack starts to surround you. I cannot explain that feeling but you will know it when it happens if you are aware of your surroundings. The wolves want to feed and I wasn't going down without a fight. The hint of what I was prepared to do allowed them seek other opportunities. HOWEVER, this act can also escalate matters and you must be prepared for that as well. So in my case it was certain attack or try something and have a 50/50 chance it will work. You will have a good option of "lesser concealment option" with the pack you got from Gun Gear.

[ced_56]

Some places being made and reported can cause you to lose your ccw

[DavidS]

Some places being made and reported can cause you to lose your ccw
I think that reason is outside the scope of my question. Carrying where illegal would make me the BG. I don't do it and I expect most/all conscientious cc permit holders would not.

[RRP]

Some places being made and reported can cause you to lose your ccw


I think that reason is outside the scope of my question. Carrying where illegal would make me the BG. I don't do it and I expect most/all conscientious cc permit holders would not.

David, I think you misunderstood CED's response.

In some locations, "being made" constitutes brandishing. CCW means concealed, and in some jurisdictions if the gun is visible, or prints through your clothing in a way which identifies it as a gun, you could be charged. This could lead to the loss of a concealed carry permit/license.

This is not a concern in locales which allow open carry. Knowing the rules where we carry is critical.

[spud]

David, I think you misunderstood CED's response.

In some locations, "being made" constitutes brandishing. CCW means concealed, and in some jurisdictions if the gun is visible, or prints through your clothing in a way which identifies it as a gun, you could be charged. This could lead to the loss of a concealed carry permit/license.

This is not a concern in locales which allow open carry. Knowing the rules where we carry is critical.


Do you know of any cases where a CCW holder was charged with brandishing for just having a gun print while carrying? I do agree that concealed means concealed and awareness of surroundings is key.

[ripley16]

Why is being "made" assumed to be a bad thing?

In some states, it may be against the law to expose a concealed gun, the act being constued as brandishing. This can even happen where open carry is allowed, as in Virginia.

[Longitude Zero]

Sorry, but I believe in the element of surprise. Extreme case scenario, the BG knows you have a gun,maybe he doesn't, maybe he is well under the influence of mind altering drugs which is all too common in crime scenes.If he wants your gun he knows if he comes up and blind sides you, he now has a gun to sell or use. It's a "catch 22" question. Damned if you do;damned if you don't.In my opinion, CCW means just that.

This is the primary reason to NOT be made as there have been many instances of officers in uniform being targeted and assassinated. Remember the four officers eating that were murdered recently? Also many business ban open carry but allow CCW.

[Longitude Zero]

Do you know of any cases where a CCW holder was charged with brandishing for just having a gun print while carrying? I do agree that concealed means concealed and awareness of surroundings is key.

In my home state (OK) there have been 2 instances that I know of where the state took civil action against a CCW holder for displaying his weapon w/o just cause. This was before we passed open carry and it was the primary reason why here in OK open carry was passed so that if a person carrying concealed inadvertently exposed their weapon.

[knkali]

keep em covered boyz

[ced_56]

I think that reason is outside the scope of my question. Carrying where illegal would make me the BG. I don't do it and I expect most/all conscientious cc permit holders would not.


David, I think you misunderstood CED's response.

In some locations, "being made" constitutes brandishing. CCW means concealed, and in some jurisdictions if the gun is visible, or prints through your clothing in a way which identifies it as a gun, you could be charged. This could lead to the loss of a concealed carry permit/license.

This is not a concern in locales which allow open carry. Knowing the rules where we carry is critical.

RRP clarified what I intended to say. In many states, if you are carrying and someone spots it, they have the option to charge you with brandishing and/or revoke your permit even if you are carrying in a location where it is legal to carry. Now that does not mean that they will always chose to charge you but it is something to consider. Not all states have that restriction which is why it is important to know the rules of where you live and where you travel. This is why I will do IWB holsters. Makes it less likely to be spotted.

[berettabone]

I usually front pocket carry, sometimes IWB carry. I live in a state where open carry is legal. Personally, even if I didn't live in an open carry state, I could care less if I print. Some of the pants that I wear, you can tell a bit more than others. In the 2+ yrs. I have been pocket carrying, I have noticed one person looking at my front pocket, and they just smiled and moved on. I find myself looking at front pockets and watching eyes when I'm out and about, and pretty much most of the population is so self involved with themselves or their electronic devices, that they don't notice $#it. Exactly what sheep do, they just mill about, not really paying attention. I don't worry about it.

[DavidS]

RRP clarified what I intended to say. In many states, if you are carrying and someone spots it, they have the option to charge you with brandishing and/or revoke your permit even if you are carrying in a location where it is legal to carry. Now that does not mean that they will always chose to charge you but it is something to consider. Not all states have that restriction which is why it is important to know the rules of where you live and where you travel. This is why I will do IWB holsters. Makes it less likely to be spotted.
I would think least likely to be "spotted", would be carrying in a waist pack or pouch or purse or etc. where it is totally enclosed and unidentifiable. Someone may "think" you have a weapon, but without seeing it or its outline it could not be called brandishing.

[DavidS]

In my home state (OK) there have been 2 instances that I know of where the state took civil action against a CCW holder for displaying his weapon w/o just cause. This was before we passed open carry and it was the primary reason why here in OK open carry was passed so that if a person carrying concealed inadvertently exposed their weapon.
Were those two incidents accidental or intentional displaying?

[ced_56]

I think that reason is outside the scope of my question. Carrying where illegal would make me the BG. I don't do it and I expect most/all conscientious cc permit holders would not.


I would think least likely to be "spotted", would be carrying in a waist pack or pouch or purse or etc. where it is totally enclosed and unidentifiable. Someone may "think" you have a weapon, but without seeing it or its outline it could not be called brandishing.

True but being a 30yr old guy I'm not going to be carrying a purse and a waist pack (fanny pack) isn't really my style. Easiest and best for me personally is during cold weather cause that's when I wear oversized hoodies and put it in the hoodie pocket and you can't tell that there is anything there. But that is all about what works for each person and what they are comfortable with

[ltxi]

Here, Colorado, and a in couple of destination states I commonly visit concealed carry means concealed carry although none freak out over minor, unintentional printing/exposure. Appropriate for dress and properly carried concealed firearms shouldn't be able to be spotted under normal circumstances. The inexperienced can still often be easily "made" through unconscious behavior.

[DavidS]

True but being a 30yr old guy I'm not going to be carrying a purse and a waist pack (fanny pack) isn't really my style. Easiest and best for me personally is during cold weather cause that's when I wear oversized hoodies and put it in the hoodie pocket and you can't tell that there is anything there. But that is all about what works for each person and what they are comfortable with
I wear tee/polo shirts year round with either cargo shorts or pants. Seldom need a jacket (I am "well insulated") so heavy clothing for cover really is not an option for me.
Being in the over 60 group and secure in my masculinity what with being married for 40+years to the same woman , I have no problem with the fanny pack. I have some plaid shorts and some sandals, however I just cannot bring myself to wear the black dress socks. Usually it's white socks and sneakers.
However, if it were 40 years ago and before I met my wife, I think the fanny pack would not be part of my wardrobe. Style is much more important when you are young. Of course, back then there was a lot more room in my pants for IWB or pocket carry, too.
Agree, it is all about what works for each person and what they are comfortable with (at that time in their life).

[Longitude Zero]

The inexperienced can still often be easily "made" through unconscious behavior.

Everybody can be "made" at one time or another. If you know what to look for 90% of CCW can be easily spotted.

11384

[knkali]

Everybody can be "made" at one time or another. If you know what to look for 90% of CCW can be easily spotted.

11384

good post right there. Thanks

[DavidS]

good post right there. Thanks
+1.

[TheLastDaze]

I think a lot of concealed carry is also a frame of mind, your attitude may print where your gun does not.. Trying not to stick out like a sore thumb worrying about if anyone thinks you have a gun, or is my gun printing?? that tasty little morsel keeps looking my way she's got to know I have a gun !!!! why else would she be looking at me?? :)

[CJB]

I had a Leo grab my pocketed pm45 through the jeans fabric, in Leesburg a few years back. pissed me off. Whats that? I forget what I said but it was probably sarcastic. Only time I ever had trouble with bein discovered.

[garyb]

I think that reason is outside the scope of my question. Carrying where illegal would make me the BG. I don't do it and I expect most/all conscientious cc permit holders would not.

Good point and this was my first thought, being here in NY. I don't want to be made as it only brings problems. I read guys write that they don't care if their gun prints, but I've always suspected that in their State, it does not matter. In NY, you don't want to be made....and I want the element of surprise. It is not something I care to advertise...that's just me.

[berettabone]

Good point and this was my first thought, being here in NY. I don't want to be made as it only brings problems. I read guys write that they don't care if their gun prints, but I've always suspected that in their State, it does not matter. In NY, you don't want to be made....and I want the element of surprise. It is not something I care to advertise...that's just me.

I believe that you are correct in your thinking....................I live in an open carry state, so, I don't care if I print. I don't print on purpose, I don't want to be made, but if I am, I don't really worry about it. I will never compromise my comfort, for someone else's discomfort. I front pocket carry 80% of the time, and in all of that time, I have noticed maybe two people who made it as a firearm. It's been said before, most people are not very aware, and never notice. If I could open carry, without problems, I would just do that. It's a shame, that in a lot of states, you are forced to jump through hoops to make sure that your firearm is not discovered.:yo: