Fairly frequent noobie question...

[Earle]

Disclaimer - I do own a couple of WLR mag derringers, which I've not shot on a regular basis. Other than those, the cm9 is by far the smallest hand gun I've shot. I've sent my cm9 through a hundred rounds or so. I've discovered that I shoot low and left with it (right-handed, primarily). My problem is whether or not I just need to compensate - more front sight and more to the right. I'm not new to pistol shooting. I'm more concerned at this point at hitting the BG in a vital area than I am with punching bull's eyes...

[SlowBurn]

Very common. It's trigger technique, more exaggerated in small pistols because of short barrel. A a quick fix might be to get very firm with your left hand support, but also try to focus on smooth squeeze, follow through past the break and keeping your finger from shifting over and getting too much trigger.

[Planedude]

Here's a copy of a training target that helped me as a newbie... In the 70's.

Oldie but a goody.

Good luck, have fun and welcome.

[RRP]

~~~ My problem is whether or not I just need to compensate - more front sight and more to the right. I'm not new to pistol shooting. I'm more concerned at this point at hitting the BG in a vital area than I am with punching bull's eyes...

Earle,

You're right; it is a common problem.

Your proposed solution will move your point-of-impact (POI) closer to your point-of-aim (POA), however I have two concerns with this approach. First, it treats the symptom, not the problem. Second, in a life and death situation, I'm not convinced you will remember to apply Kentucky Windage.

The core of the problem is that the gun moves off target as you complete the trigger pull. We don't realize we do it, because it happens in a split second, just before the shot goes off. The muzzle dips low and towards our weak side as we pull back on the trigger. This happens because it is not natural to isolate muscle movement and as we pull back on the trigger, our other fingers also contract, moving the muzzle low-left (for a right-handed shooter). Exacerbating this is the tendency in inexperienced shooters to anticipate recoil (and the associated muzzle rise), with an off-setting snapping of the muzzle downwards, as the trigger pull is completed. The combined effect results in POI which is way off our intended POA.

The good news is that it is easy to fix with more trigger time. Dry fire is your friend. In a safe location away from ammo, and after you have triple-checked to verify your gun is clear, practice shooting. Focus on pulling the trigger straight back, without moving the muzzle. I like doing "Wall Drills" during my dry fire sessions. Google this for more information. Some folks balance a coin, or an empty case on the front sight, as they pull the trigger. Whether you balance something on the sight, or dry fire within 1/2" of a wall to help detect muzzle movement, your technique will improve with practice.

Good luck.

[Pointblank]

In emergency situations most people resort to point-shooting. It usually happens close and fast and there is no time for the sights. That is why we should practice both target and combat shooting.

[Earle]

In emergency situations most people resort to point-shooting. It usually happens close and fast and there is no time for the sights. That is why we should practice both target and combat shooting.First, thanks to all for replying. The dry firing suggestion is particularly welcome. Since I've not had this problem with larger pistols, I'm assuming there's something about the geometry and size of the gun which is affecting me. What Pointblank has said is especially concerning, since I'd anticipated that the error might repeat under pressure. One thing I didn't mention which may be pertinent is that, with the last pistol I had and shot, an S&W 669 (hard to believe that was considered "compact" when I bought it), I could slip my left thumb up the grip, below the slide, and the slide had plenty of room to retract. Not that much room on this gun. On about my 3rd shot, I did that and the slide nicked my left thumb pretty good. I then shot with a bloody handkerchief wrapped around my left hand, until the range-master noticed and donated a couple of Bandaids. That probably didn't help my flinch at all...

[larryz]

I solved my pulling issue by tightening my off-hand grip (left thumb OVER right thumb), letting it hold the pistol while my right hand is solely trigger squeeze.

[Earle]

Assuming that I'm not able, even with practice, to overcome the problem, does Kahr ever turn out a misaligned barrel?

[Tilos]

Here's a few threads on this subject.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=kahrtalk+forum%2C+shoots+low+left&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=kahrtalk+forum%2C+shoots+low+left&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=4434214669fd4f5e81aadea08a20f9de

:D

[Earle]

Here's a few threads on this subject.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=kahrtalk+forum%2C+shoots+low+left&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=kahrtalk+forum%2C+shoots+low+left&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=4434214669fd4f5e81aadea08a20f9de

:DThanks...

[SlowBurn]

Assuming that I'm not able, even with practice, to overcome the problem, does Kahr ever turn out a misaligned barrel?

You mean might it be the barrel? .....11385

[b4uqzme]

First, thanks to all for replying. The dry firing suggestion is particularly welcome. Since I've not had this problem with larger pistols, I'm assuming there's something about the geometry and size of the gun which is affecting me. What Pointblank has said is especially concerning, since I'd anticipated that the error might repeat under pressure. One thing I didn't mention which may be pertinent is that, with the last pistol I had and shot, an S&W 669 (hard to believe that was considered "compact" when I bought it), I could slip my left thumb up the grip, below the slide, and the slide had plenty of room to retract. Not that much room on this gun. On about my 3rd shot, I did that and the slide nicked my left thumb pretty good. I then shot with a bloody handkerchief wrapped around my left hand, until the range-master noticed and donated a couple of Bandaids. That probably didn't help my flinch at all...

It's exaggerated by the long Kahr trigger pull but it's remedied easily with a little practice. Good luck! Kahrs are remarkably accurate once you get used to them.

[Earle]

You mean might it be the barrel? .....11385Not really. Just throwing the idea out. I only know of one barrel which turned out to be at fault. I tried every type of trigger pull I could think of. Nothing seemed to make a lot of difference, unless I showed a lot more front sight than I'm used to showing. It probably just needs practice by me. It just shoots so differently from any other handgun I've used...

[b4uqzme]

Assuming that I'm not able, even with practice, to overcome the problem, does Kahr ever turn out a misaligned barrel?

Anything is possible but that would be an absolute last resort. I wouldn't be surprised if we all started out shooting low and left (except for the lefties...they shoot low and right).

[deadeye]

Had exactly the same problem. As ammo was hard to get and expensive I bought a co2 pistol, built a target box and practiced, practiced and practiced some more in my garage and back yard. You wouldn't believe the difference now. Still not as good as I would like to be but putting 6 shots in a 3" circle at 7 yds. Was doing good to hit a 8 X 11 paper at 7 yds at first. A Gamo P3 pistol is the same weight and has the same trigger pull at my CM9.

[Earle]

Had exactly the same problem. As ammo was hard to get and expensive I bought a co2 pistol, built a target box and practiced, practiced and practiced some more in my garage and back yard. You wouldn't believe the difference now. Still not as good as I would like to be but putting 6 shots in a 3" circle at 7 yds. Was doing good to hit a 8 X 11 paper at 7 yds at first. A Gamo P3 pistol is the same weight and has the same trigger pull at my CM9.I shoot pretty much dead on with any other handgun, so I don't think a pellet gun would work. The idea of interspersing snap caps with live loads, and having someone else introduce the randomness might show up any flinch. This is not the largest heaviest recoiling pistol I've fired (.44 Ruger mag beats the hell out of it), but it's the largest caliber for size and weight, so there is a possibility I'm anticipating it, even though it's unconscious. What's worrying me now is that, in a SD situation, I'm probably not going to go to target-shooting mode, no matter how many rounds I send down range. Also, it's not that I'm shooting that far off now. All my shots should be disabling on a human BG. It's just not how I'm accustomed to shoot. A liver shot is a pretty slow-acting wound... :)

[deadeye]

I'm an old guy and have been shooting all my life. Own a few hand guns and shoot them very well. As many will tell you the CM9 is a new world. Even after I got on the paper I was low left nearly every time. Don't know if was the short barrel, the different trigger, light weight or all the above. I believe it was the trigger pull. That is where the pellet gun came in handy. The trigger pull is nearly identical. Even though it is not a target gun it can be quite accurate with a lot of practice. Once you get the feel for it the SD mode will come automatically. Good luck.

[leftysixty]

If you work a Kahr trigger the same as you would a double action revolver (firing double action only) you will quickly bond with your new Kahr.

Of course that applies only if you can shoot a double action revolver well.

Believe it or not it works.

[SlowBurn]

Not really. Just throwing the idea out. I only know of one barrel which turned out to be at fault. I tried every type of trigger pull I could think of. Nothing seemed to make a lot of difference, unless I showed a lot more front sight than I'm used to showing. It probably just needs practice by me. It just shoots so differently from any other handgun I've used...

If you want to satisfy yourself so you'll have confidence in the gun, have an expert shoot it. But its not the gun.

[Earle]

If you want to satisfy yourself so you'll have confidence in the gun, have an expert shoot it. But its not the gun.
I feel you're probably right. I've talked to a couple of other people who have high-powered subcompact and they had the same problem. However, I will try your idea. The rangemaster where I've been shooting is supposed to be expert and he pretty much hangs around...

[muggsy]

First of al the kahr pistols have combat sights. The white dot should cover the the intended point of impact and the dot should float over the bar of the rear sight, not sit on it. If your sight picture is correct and you are staging the trigger, you could be anticipating recoil and pulling down the barrel just as the shot breaks. To cure the windage problem watch the video posted below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKdXmcdB5WE&list=UU64sOqMTpNhUy5_SzxfWGoQ

[Earle]

First of al the kahr pistols have combat sights. The white dot should cover the the intended point of impact and the dot should float over the bar of the rear sight, not sit on it. If your sight picture is correct and you are staging the trigger, you could be anticipating recoil and pulling down the barrel just as the shot breaks. To cure the windage problem watch the video posted below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKdXmcdB5WE&list=UU64sOqMTpNhUy5_SzxfWGoQ

Good video and probably right on. The Kahr is the smallest handgun I've ever shot, by far. I think it's a case of the long trigger pull and the foreshortened grip distance. To repeat from an older post, I've not had this problem with other handguns...

[Joe A.]

I'm new to Kahr pistol. Bought my cm9 this past Wednesday. At first, I was shooting left and sometimes a little low. So I started pulling with the first joint of trigger finger, same as shooting a double action revolver. Then I was hitting dead on. At seven yards I was hitting bullet holes. Made all the difference in the world for me. I was initially trying to shoot it with the pad of my trigger finger like I shoot my 1911s and it was not working for me.

Joe

[Earle]

I'm new to Kahr pistol. Bought my cm9 this past Wednesday. At first, I was shooting left and sometimes a little low. So I started pulling with the first joint of trigger finger, same as shooting a double action revolver. Then I was hitting dead on. At seven yards I was hitting bullet holes. Made all the difference in the world for me. I was initially trying to shoot it with the pad of my trigger finger like I shoot my 1911s and it was not working for me.

JoeI tried experimenting with that. One problem is I have recent wound in my left thumb (I'm predominantly a rightie), so my grip is just not normal at the moment. That's not mentioning the functional things normally done with the left hand, like discharging a mag, releasing or racking the slide, etc. I just have to let it heal before I go back and try again. At least, the gun now has more than their recommended break-in 200 rounds on it. One thing I didn't anticipate was the amount of effort it takes to rack the slide against the recoil spring. I had thought that it could double as a CCW for my wife from time to time. However, she's tried to rack it and she can't. She is not a weak woman by any means and does a lot of really physical stuff requiring arm and shoulder strength...

[h2ohhh]

Easiest racking mouse gun I found for women when I was selling them was the Sig P238. Not a striker fired DAO though. Its a mini 1911 style weapon, but smooth as hot butter.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Earle]

Easiest racking mouse gun I found for women when I was selling them was the Sig P238. Not a striker fired DAO though. Its a mini 1911 style weapon, but smooth as hot butter.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using TapatalkThanks for the suggestion. I have a couple of friends who swear by that gun. Friday, when I was unable to rack it normally and had to do it right-handed or with a modified grip, catching it between the palm and finger tips of my left hand, it occurred to me to have my wife try it. She couldn't do it, and, as I said, she's not weak. I'll let her try the Sig...

[Earle]

Practicing with snap caps, I had a new idea. I'm ambidextrous, with a lot of tasks assigned to my left hand. (Found that out the hard way when I had carpal canal surgery on my left hand.) The little Kahr gives so little room to grip, even with the Pearce extension, I'm going to try a two handed grip, pulling the trigger with my left hand...

[codegeek]

Easiest racking mouse gun I found for women when I was selling them was the Sig P238. Not a striker fired DAO though. Its a mini 1911 style weapon, but smooth as hot butter.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the suggestion. I have a couple of friends who swear by that gun. Friday, when I was unable to rack it normally and had to do it right-handed or with a modified grip, catching it between the palm and finger tips of my left hand, it occurred to me to have my wife try it. She couldn't do it, and, as I said, she's not weak. I'll let her try the Sig...

I certainly second that. Love my P238.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

[h2ohhh]

Comes in some nice looking variations too. Mine is the 'We the People' edition.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/31/e7amy6a7.jpg

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