Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda

[mser]

Been shopping around for a .380, both online and in stores. Found a shop with all four in stock; LCP 380, Bodyguard 380 (no laser), P380 and CW380. Made it easy for hands on side by side comparison.

LCP - Good reliability. Long mediocre trigger pull. No slide lock on last round fired. No sights to speak of.
BG - Good reliability. Very long mediocre trigger pull. Slide lock on last round fired. Usable sights. Second strike capability.
P & CW - It's a Kahr! Reliability of the .380 model questionable. Best trigger pull available in mouse guns. Slide lock on last round fired. Usable sights. No second strike capability. P comes with 3 magazines, CW comes with 1.

I think it's going to be a Kahr. I have previous experience with several different models and calibers. Now, the question that has baffled mankind since the Coke / Pepsi wars. Is it going to be a P or CW? P has all the bells and whistles; blunt nose style, Lothar Walther match grade barrel, dovetail front sight, machined slide lock, roll marking, 3 magazines. But it's $300 more than the CW. Is it worth it? My previous and current Kahr ownership have always been the top of the line series. Am I going to be sorry if I "settle" for the CW? Decisions, decisions.

Second question is in regards to break in period specific to the .380 caliber. Any certain brand or grain of ammunition recommended to shoot or stay away from? Break in with one brand / grain, or shoot several different ones? How about carry ammunition? Speer GDHP, Hornady Critical Defense, or...?

[b4uqzme]

I'll chime in with my opinions:



I've tried all 3 and the Kahr wins by a landslide --- recoil, trigger, and shot management.
There's no "settling" with the CW. It is every bit as good a gun. The choice is simple math: how much do you value the PM's looks, extra mags, etc. You can buy a lot of magazines for $300. ;)
Break in with several brands of factory ball ammunition. Your gun may like some brands over the others. Wait until after the break in to try out your SD hollow points. And you might want to read up on .380 ballistics. There's a very convincing school of thought that ball ammo works best in .380.
When choosing your SD ammo, try several brands to see which ones run best. IMHO that is more important than ballistics...that it cycles faithfully every time.


Enjoy.

[Bawanna]

For 300 more unless your knocked over by the slight cosmetic difference in the slide, I'd go the CW.

Probably only carry one extra magazine if any and a mag is probably about 30 bucks.

[DavidR]

Please pardon my ignorance - what do you mean by second strike capability?

[Bawanna]

Please pardon my ignorance - what do you mean by second strike capability?

It's double action. You can just pull the trigger if there's a light strike and the striker or hammer will cycle and try again. You don't need to cycle the slide, just pull the trigger.

[DavidR]

It's double action. You can just pull the trigger if there's a light strike and the striker or hammer will cycle and try again. You don't need to cycle the slide, just pull the trigger.

Thanks

[DavidS]

P or CW? If you have the money, buy the P. You are already questioning yourself about "settling" for the CW, that question won't go away.
Advice I was once given: Buy the best you can afford and you won't be sorry.

[spud]

Only you can answer if you would be "settling" on purchasing the CW over the P. If you like the P380 better you will likely think that you settled, if the CW seems to be the gun works for you then it would be a great purchase. I'm not wealthy by any stretch, but if I'm going to own something that I expect to keep for a long time, I would get what I like even if it is a few hundred more.
On the ammo to steer clear of I would recommend that you not shoot Fiocchi through your 380. I had numerous issues with that brand of 380 ammo. I have used that ammo in other calibers without issues, but the Kahr choked on it.
Shoot the SD ammo that you have listed and see what works best for you. I like the Hornady but your mileage might vary.

[DavidS]

............................ if I'm going to own something that I expect to keep for a long time, I would get what I like even if it is a few hundred more..................
+1
And that is why my first Kahr was an MK Elite.

[kwh]

Shot a range rental P380. Liked it , but occasional FTF over 50 rounds. Bought CW380 and after 3 range sessions with 75 rounds , no FTF. FMJ used to break in. Have top-rated Hornady XTP ( made by Precision One) for defense. Caveat, last range session I limp-wristed (not same as loose grip) and a subsequent FTF. I Have a CM9 and CW45. Every day carry CM9 in pocket . Saw no reason to spend more. Their polished barrel ramps and smooth trigger pulls always puts a smile on my face.

[topgun1953]

P or CW? I have both. I've been carrying the CW and taking the P to the range. Part of me likes the basic slide of the CW more than the P, but when it comes time to trade one in, it will probably be the CW. As spud says, don't try to use Fiocchi.

[muggsy]

I bought the P380 only because the CW wasn't available at the time. I carry a CM9 as my primary and the P380 as a back-up. I don't see any real advantage in buying the P over the CW unless you can't live without the polygonal rifled barrel. The P has a bit more gun snob appeal, but that ain't why I carry a gun. The damn thing is concealed and I don't show it off much. Call me practical.

[berettabone]

I use Fiocchi all of the time, with no problems.....................................

[SlowBurn]

I bought the P380 only because the CW wasn't available at the time. ...I don't see any real advantage in buying the P over the CW unless you can't live without the polygonal rifled barrel. The P has a bit more gun snob appeal, but that ain't why I carry a gun...

Bought mine for the same reason, no cw's to be had at the time. Is the polygonal barrel a significant advantage? I'm sure both types of barrel are plenty accurate. Does it actually affect velocity? If not, then I can't see any real life advantage.
Addendum - from a prior post the cw barrel is a hair longer than the p barrel. May compensate so that velocity is the same. Wonder if anyone has tested?

[warbird1]

Must have been a Gen1 LCP. The Gen2 has much improved trigger and sights. Fine little mouse gun. Love my Kahr CW40 but when it came to a mouse gun the LCP won. No regrets. $299 well spent.

[Armybrat]

I still have my LCP - been totin' it around for several years, but still have a CW380 on my short list.

GT in north Austin lists them for $309.95 plus Texas tax (8.25%):

http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=KAHR-CW3833

They also list the new Stainless LCP for $10 more:

http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=RUG-3730

[smokersteve]

CW380 would be my suggestion.
$300 is a lot of 380 acp ammo.
You could by a second CW380 with the extra $, or get a CM9 to go alongside the CW380

[Planedude]

Have carried my P380 for a couple of years now. I wanted the night sights and paid the premium to get them. No regrets, would do it again today. Could have picked up a pair of LCPs and a box of ammo for what I paid for the Kahr back then...

Agree with the Fiocchi folks, it is the one ammo my P380 has shown a real dislike for. My P380 eats Winchester White box and Federal without a hitch, so that's what I feed it at the range. It has NEVER failed to fire/function on Hornady CD 90grn HPs so that's what I carry for SD (and are in it right now, in my pocket).

My first Kahr was a CW40, still shoots the lights out. The CW380 was not even a pipe dream back when I picked up my P. I say your fine either way. For me though, I like have real, metal, night sights and (to me) they are worth what I paid for the gun.

Good luck on the search.

[sharpetop]

I've had a P3AT, LCP and CW380. The P3AT and LCP are now a memory. That said, the new and improved S&W Bodyguard 380 with M&P on the slide and the Beretta Pico look interesting.

[berettabone]

I use Fiocchi in 9mm, .40, and ,45 and never have any trouble. I do notice that the Fiocchi is a tad longer than my defensive ammo, so I am assuming that it's just a tad too long for the short Kahr .380.

[TeaDub]

CW all day, every day. I have really been thinking about buying a CM9 and putting my XDS in the safe.

[shlike]

I use Fiocchi all of the time, with no problems.....................................

Me too. My CW380 LOVES Fiocchi ammo; FMJ 95 gr. for the range, and Extrema XTP JHP for Defensive/Carry ammo. I use Fiocchi whenever I can find it. The JHP Extrema XTP is hard to find so I end up using Hornady Critical Defense JHP most of the time. I also use 9mm and .45 auto Fiocchi in my CW9 and CW45 and they love it as well. I find it to be very reasonably priced, high-quality, reliable ammo.

[FCastle88]

Must have been a Gen1 LCP. The Gen2 has much improved trigger and sights. Fine little mouse gun. Love my Kahr CW40 but when it came to a mouse gun the LCP won. No regrets. $299 well spent.
The trigger pull on the Gen 2 LCP is a bit shorter, but still heavy and nowhere near as good as the Kahr trigger. The sights are also still pretty small compared to the P380/CW380 sights, and lack the white dot and line. Kahr .380 is also much softer shooting.

[SlowBurn]

NO offense meant. I think Ruger is a great company, but imo, the Kahr 380 is all round a better more solid gun than the LCP for several reasons, and now that the CW380 version is available in the same price range, its a no-brainer.

For me, the pocket gun is not a bug, its my only edc. I need to feel very confident about it. The tipping point issue for me, why I always carry the p380 now instead of the lcp, is the smiley problem. I don't know of any actual mishaps, but imo a gun should not dent the bullet when it goes into the chamber. Its something you might never realize unless you very deliberately look for it. It happens when you fire, not when you rack the slide.

Next time at the range, load "elsie" up, fire a couple rounds, then STOP. Drop the mag, EJECT THE ROUND IN THE CHAMBER and inspect the bullet nose. This is what I found, every time. I sent it in to Ruger, they were very professional and serviced it no charge, and it came back with exactly the same issue. So I quit carrying the LCP.

11394

[berettabone]

Personally, I don't know how anyone could like the LCP trigger. I purchased a BG instead, because I thought that the trigger and sights were a bit better. When I discovered Kahr, the BG went bye bye. Each to his own............................................... .:rolleyes:

[Firewire]

I did just about everything you could do to an LCP, and it was never the gun the CW380 is. Heck just disassemble both and feel the parts and you will see. The kahr is far more substantial. Plus the cw380 IS more concealable.

To my friends, I can't whole heartily recommend the premium price of a P over the CW simply because of the slide & barrel. I feel the CW is more gun for less $$$ than the P because I am not sure most of us can get use out of the match grade 2.5" barrel of the P nor does the CW care about lead since it's not a polygonal barrel. I added the P machined slide stop, bought a spare mag, and went ahead and bought a Bedair ss guiderod and was still money ahead. And I know I would never realistically adjust the front sight if I bought a P so why pay for a driftable front sight? I personally have no issue with the ever so slight extra weight on the CW (less machining and Bedair has to make the guiderod slightly longer for the CW than the P because of such). The CW380 is a great bargain. Remember, the lower is the same as a P too (no difference).

LCP - sweet pea 3 trigger, hogue grip, ss guiderod, springs upgrade, polished internals, viridian laser.....
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7289/9602108501_f0a364c7d2_z.jpg

CW380 - SS guiderod, machined slide stop from "p" series ordered from kahr, stippled front & rear grip.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7357/12021740346_98b353a6b3_z.jpg

[gb6491]

Nice photos Firewire:)