Barrel

[cojonme]

Does anyone know where I can get a 357sig barrel for a PM40???

[jocko]

no one that I have ever read has found one. I would say ur out to lunch on that one..

[rglbegl]

The 40 S&W has about 30,000 to 33,000 max PSI CUP

The .357 SIG has about 36,000 to 39,000 max PSI CUP


I am not sure if I would want to shoot a .357SIG out of a gun that was not specifically designed for it

[cojonme]

I keep trying to find a better small carry gun and the Kahr looked good until I read this. My "Glock" 27 and 33 are identical except for the barrel (which interchange). Thought I'd give up a little capacity for something a little slimmer. Definitely won't go backwards to a 40 just to save a 1/3 of an inch. At this point I'd recommend the small "Glocks" over the Kahr, maybe Magnum Research can teach them how to make a more potent gun!

[rglbegl]

The only Glocks that suffer KB's seem to be the 40 and the 357sig.

Because I love my index finger, If I want a 40, I will stick with a Kahr.
If I want a 357sig, I would get a Sig Sauer.

Also - the .40 is a proven round, the 357sig hasn't compiled nearly enough real world stats yet.

[cojonme]

It sounds to me like I'm hearing from a person who has never owned a 357sig!!!!!!!!!!! Until you've put a thousand rounds through one you are not qualified to judge one. Maybe you forgot why the 357sig was introduced in the first place??????????
Also, the 10mm was first introduced but the FBI said that the female officers didn't like the recoil. The men, not male, loved the performance. If my ass is on the line and you ask whether I want a 40 or a 357sig, well you know the answer. The same answer the Michigan state police have.

[rglbegl]

Still . . .
The 40 has a proven track record, the 357sig does not.

Once the sig has records on the books, enough to qualify it as a substantial defense round, I may consider one. And lets not talk about how it looks on paper, I want to hear about real world facts.

Sounds to me like someone wants to justify their purchase of a 357sig. (oh yeah, forgot the exclimation points) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bawanna]

It sounds to me like I'm hearing from a person who has never owned a 357sig!!!!!!!!!!! Until you've put a thousand rounds through one you are not qualified to judge one. Maybe you forgot why the 357sig was introduced in the first place??????????
Also, the 10mm was first introduced but the FBI said that the female officers didn't like the recoil. The men, not male, loved the performance. If my ass is on the line and you ask whether I want a 40 or a 357sig, well you know the answer. The same answer the Michigan state police have.

The 10 failed at first because there were no guns that could tolerate the pressures at the time. Had nothing to do with females not liking the recoil or macho men getting off on flame throwing recoil.
Things have indeed improved gun wise and the 10 is slowly but barely holding its own.
The 357sig has alot going for it, to me first and formost the general shape of the overall cartridge. It just begs to feed. Proverbial eggs thru the hen.
When we recently transitioned from 40's to 45s the chief insisted we test the 357 Sig as a candidate. They had already chose the Glock over the M&P Smith and the XD. He fired 1 magazine and removed it from testing due to the sharp recoil. He's a man, a big fella albeit not a gun guy.
To each his own in the caliber of choice war. To some there is just never enough, never fast enough, big enough, slow enough. It certainly your choice in what best serves the purpose when "your ass is on the line". All about what you have confidence in.
For me the 45 does the job and needs no improvement. While the 10 and 357 Sig shooters are recovering from the macho man recoil, I'll be lining up for the 3rd or possibly 4th shot. Just my humble opinion, like anatomy, everyone has one. I try not to dwell on the issue much and prefer to think of happier things, like tomorrow is friday.

[wyntrout]

Yep... the tried and true .45 ACP... don't even need the +P with a decent 230-grain bullet like the BONDED Remington Golden Saber. JMHO.
And, Kahr makes the best shooting(for CCW) and most compact .45 -- the PM45. As I have said many times, if I can carry the PM9, I can carry the PM45... in the same MiniTuck that I bought for my PM9. I don't need, nor will I try the latest, "greatest", and more expensive round/caliber that pops up ever so often... the latest fad... all with its proponents, wanting to be like the guys with the latest I-phone or I-Pad now... look at me... I have the latest greatest.... until the next "latest and greatest" comes out... just like the I-Phones....
JMHO.
Wynn:behindsofa::D

[recoilguy]

Having the latest and greatest does not make you a greater person, but it sure doesn't make you less of a one either.

To have an open enough mind to try new thing is a very good attribute. To be so narrow minded so as not to try any thing new just because its new and the old stuff works, is ok but you will miss out on a lot of potential fun.

If you are satisfied were you are don't want to experiance anything new because if it were worth while you would have experianced it already is a falisy. What one person considers "old reliable" was at one time the new fangled fancy pants thingy of the past.

RCG

[jocko]

I put the 357 sig and the 45 gap in about the same class. UNNECESSARY!!

doesn't mean they are no good, just IMO UNNECESSARY!!

about like the 32 NAA round UNNECESSARY.

I might be scenting somewhat to.

[wyntrout]

I don't need to try every new caliber that comes out. I DO have the latest improved .45 Golden Sabers for defensive carry. The "only weakness" noted in the old version was penetration -- heavy clothing and barriers -- and the bonded version should help with that. Even with the ammo shortage, I can still find FMJ for $16 to $17 a box of 50, and defensive ammo online for about $35 a 50-round box. This lets me shoot the stuff often, and not just say 10 out of a box of 20, saving the other 10 for carry.
Having an open mind has nothing to do with my not trying out everything that comes down the pike and there's much to be said for tried and true. If something proves to be better after real world testing and I need to "upgrade" then I might consider it.
Guns are tools and I don't have enough... who does? I'm not wealthy and have to consider the astounding amount of money that I've spent on guns and ammo and accessories in the last year... actually the last 6 months or so since joining this forum.

I only added one caliber the .380 and I've had one or two .380's in the past. The P380 looked to fill a need for my carry when it's HOT down here and wearing light clothing, which is most of the year. It was a scaled-down version of a Kahr with all of the big pistol features, and from most reports it shot like the big ones, too, well.

I have other hobbies and other things to spend money on. I have more DVRs... High Def video recorders than maybe 3 or 4 "normal" people and I've spent a bunch on upgrading and embracing the latest video and audio standards. I just minimally upgraded my computer... CPU only, and there are a lot of things that I would like to buy for my computer, but I have to make choices.

I have neglected a lot of things around the house that could be upgraded or remodeled, etc., and my wife has not said no to any of my requests for new toys. If she weren't working I couldn't spend the money on this stuff that I do.

I'm very adventuresome in some but not all things. I like new and modern, and too often wished I HAD stayed with tried and true... the OMC Ficht outboard engines being introduced in the mid to late 90's come readily to mind. They weren't tried and true... the 150 and 175 HP versions, and I had great troubles with my 175 Johnson. After many repairs -- some covered by warranty... until OMC folded over that, some not. The second blown engine I had to pay for and decided to get out of boating. Had I chosen tried and true, I would still be enjoying the boat.
I already feel like I'm a Beta tester for Kahr, so this a pretty open-minded tact for me, with some of the troubles I've had and still having. Any future weapons need to be things that reach further and shoot more bullets. I think that I have CCW weapons covered pretty well.
If I ever win a lottery again -- a bigger one -- I will be able to indulge myself with new but un-needed toys, though I still probably won't need a .357 Sig or .500 magnum, etc.

We see a lot of agencies and organizations dropping the smaller calibers in favor of the good old .45 ACP, too. There are reasons that bullet is still highly favored... hardly outdated, especially with innovations in bullet design. I've never been narrow-minded about anything.
Wynn:behindsofa::yo:

[AFVet]

This lets me shoot the stuff often, and not just say 10 out of a box of 20, saving the other 10 for carry.

I actually do this, but it's not a money saving measure. I read somewhere that you should always test some out of the box containing your carry ammo. That made sense to me.

[jocko]

I actually do this, but it's not a money saving measure. I read somewhere that you should always test some out of the box containing your carry ammo. That made sense to me.

a bad method of doing things, I would also at least once a month cycle (shoot) those carry rounds and start ANEW.. rounds sitting in a gun, can gather loose oil, humidity etc, Just shoot um up and start fresh..:israel:

[wyntrout]

I buy 4 or 5 50-round boxes... 200 to 250 rounds so I can shoot a box and carry for a while, then shoot the carry ammo once in a while. I want to shoot enough to be sure that it works well in the intended weapon and the magazines I'm using.

I've seen some of my ammo -- the Bonded GS 230-gr .45's-- listed for $80 to $90 a box at some places on the 'Net... the same ammo I found for less than $35 a box. It might sell for $35 to $40 a box of 25... Remington and Hornady give you 25 rounds usually, instead of 20.

As for testing each box, I don't see any need for that when all of the ammo was coming from the same place at the same time. But if the boxes were different or "weathered" I might at least look the stuff over and make sure there's no corrosion or damage, then shoot some of each.

JMHO.
Wynn:yo:

[jlottmc]

Still . . .
The 40 has a proven track record, the 357sig does not.

Once the sig has records on the books, enough to qualify it as a substantial defense round, I may consider one. And lets not talk about how it looks on paper, I want to hear about real world facts.

Sounds to me like someone wants to justify their purchase of a 357sig. (oh yeah, forgot the exclimation points) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I wish that TX DPS, the Texas Rangers, and Dallas PD off the top of my head knew what apparently you do. Oh then there was the time that the gorilla escaped from the zoo here, the officer's that I know let me read the autopsy. Guess what the 357's did the deed. Further, the same officers came back from the junk yards with testing materials, we shot both 9mm Sig P226's and 357's in the same type gun. Guess what again, the 357's ALL performed much better than the 9mm's. Sorry to burst that bubble.:D

[rglbegl]

^^^
You didnt burst any bubble.
I never said the 357sig was bad, that was your assumption.
I said it needs to be tested further before I will use it. I am not in a department that forces us to carry a specific gun. (Thank goodness!!!)

I like to look at real world usage. And thus far the 357sig only has a few recorded cases of use. Where the .40 already has thousands of recorded cases. And the .45 . . . well . .. I dont even need to explain how good that one is.

So if you want to go off of your brothers cousins former room-mates word about how cool the caliber is. Or use a single scenario as full proof . . that is your choice.
I, however, am going to use a cartridge that is KNOWN as a man stopper.
Proven facts from real world experience works for me. Real field results are worth more than controlled tests.


Real world proof > FBI penetration tables > My local boys goin for a 'fun shoot' > my neighbors word

[jlottmc]

I believe I also said that I was along for the testing of the 357 vs 9mm. I also just happen to know a few members in the aforementioned LE agencies and ALL of them love the 357 sig. There is data available for it if you look. So lets' see first hand experience with that round vs what you heard from where again?.... Hmmm
Good Bye

[rglbegl]

^^^
Your logic is extremely flawed!!!
So you and some local boys went out for a 'fun shoot'? And that is what you base your knowledge on?
I have studied over 30 years of real world fire fights from police, FBI, and other armed security agencies. (INS, Air marshalls etc)

Didn't you read what I posted?
Real world proof > FBI penetration tables > My local boys goin for a 'fun shoot' > my neighbors word

I go off of real world fact, and you go off of your 'fun shoots'
You would have more credibility if you had even posted some penetration tables, but you didnt. You went one step below that to "I have shot one, and it looked like it did a lot of damage" . . . Ya, that is some great research there buddy.

And you are right, if you search for days and days, you can find a few actual cases of the 357sig in real world usage.
The .40 on the other hand has years of statistics and tons of actual usage information.

[Bawanna]

oooohmm hari krishna, ooooohmm hari krishna. In with the good, out with the bad. Don't make me come down there you two.
No sense getting any panties wadded up over a caliber discussion.
To me there's the 45 and then everything else..................................

[rglbegl]

I agree, the .45 is pretty much the best caliber in an auto.
Especially in the winter when people wear more layers of clothes.

My summer gun is a 9mm, and my winter gun is a .45

[jocko]

I agree, the .45 is pretty much the best caliber in an auto.
Especially in the winter when people wear more layers of clothes.

My summer gun is a 9mm, and my winter gun is a .45

probably right, thats why the9mm is the most widely carried caliber in law enforcement:7:

oops: forgot and also our military. not arguing with anyone,, just stating facts.

[Bawanna]

probably right, thats why the9mm is the most widely carried caliber in law enforcement:7:

oops: forgot and also our military. not arguing with anyone,, just stating facts.

Come on Jocko, you haven't argued with anybody in heck, hours. A good verbal duke out would do ya good.

[O'Dell]

I agree, the .45 is pretty much the best caliber in an auto.
Especially in the winter when people wear more layers of clothes.

My summer gun is a 9mm, and my winter gun is a .45

Since I got my PM45, I can do 45 year round. The PM is actually slightly smaller than the CW9 I was using for warm weather carry. When I can cover them, I rotate between bigger compact 45's - P220, M&P, and XD. Like I said in a previous post, I like variety.

[wyntrout]

probably right, thats why the9mm is the most widely carried caliber in law enforcement:7:

oops: forgot and also our military. not arguing with anyone,, just stating facts.

If you talked to a lot of those folks, they would rather be carrying the .45 instead of the 9mm. The spec ops folks use .45's. The 9mm was adapted by the military so they could share ammo with the Europeans, NATO, and so forth. The military doesn't get to use hollow points and the larger .45 is more effective when using ball ammo.

Wynn:D

[qshipglide]

This 'unproven track record' might come as a suprise to the secret service, federal air marshals and at least five state police agencies who carry the ,357 sig. It may not be in the Bill of Rights but freedom of choice is what being an American is all about! I would jump on a K357 sig with both feet!