money problems

[knkali]

BAM....not good kids. Need guys smarter than me to tell me that this is BS and it isn't gonna happen. Please?
http://www.moneynews.com/MKTNews/Massive-wealth-destruction-economy/2013/06/20/id/511043/?promo_code=13E5C-1&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral

[downtownv]

Oh that's VERY Real!
All that's happened is we expanded government to show job "Growth"
We have US Corps that have BILLIONS AND BILLIONS in offshore banks because we have a 35% tax rate should they bring that money home. This is good for the foreign counties but not so much for us...
That's money that could be spent on new jobs, R&D investments etc.

[skiflydive]

So why does everyone always blame the (evil) "Corporations" for doing what the government allows (encourages?) them to do?

[JohnR]

So why does everyone always blame the (evil) "Corporations" for doing what the government allows (encourages?) them to do?
Because people are gullible, only a tiny fraction of us know the truth.

Some economists predict deflation on a significant scale. The stock market will crash and gold prices will plummet, but if you have cash it will be worth a lot more.

[marshal kane]

Oh yeah, it, or something close to it, is going to happen. Most Americans don't pay any attention to things like this because they think government is protecting them so they pay more attention to who's playing in Sunday's game or who's on Dancing with the Stars than what's happening in Washington. The average American, including university students, haven't a clue what government has been doing to them over the years. Look at it this way, we all have a source of income and when our spending exceeds that amount, we borrow in order to pay our bills. When we can no longer borrow, we go into default called bankruptcy. Government does the same thing, they borrow and borrow on a gigantic scale. The interest that we have to pay on government borrowing would fund many small nations. The day will come when no one will lend our government anymore money. That's when we will no longer be a super power! Governments solution is to pass the debt down to our children and grandchildren. You can bet their lives will not be better than ours. The time has long passed when government should have gotten control over its debt but it's not too late to start. Turn off the spending because the day of reckoning is close at hand.

[TheTman]

I've heard the SHTF, when OPEC announces that it will accept other currencies than the dollar for oil. That's about the only thing propping up the dollar, is that foreign countries have to exchange their currency for dollars to buy oil. This has allowed the US to run up the huge debts that it has, but will come to and end at some point in time. In exchange for OPEC pricing oil in dollars, Nixon promised Saudi Arabia, that we would provide defense for them, should they ever need it.
Iran, and some other unfriendly countries, are already accepting other currencies, such as the Chinese Yuan, and Japanese Yen, possibly the Euro, and Gold. It's really not a matter of IF, it's more of a matter of WHEN. It will be like the Weimar Government in Germany, after WWI, when a wheelbarrow full of cash wouldn't buy a loaf of bread. I'd stock up on stuff to barter with, bullets, alcohol, cigarettes, non-perishable food, precious metals, medicines (Fish-Pen is penicillin for Aquariums, but is the same stuff the Dr. prescribes, and much cheaper). I also heard from one of my emergency food suppliers, that FEMA is going around to different warehouses, and attempting to buy all the survival type food it can get it's hands on. For what reason I don't know, whether to feed the masses, or to keep the DHS fed. I also hear stories about the Government wanting to raid people's bank accounts, and take 10-20% out as some special tax, and also taking over Pension Plans and IRA/401 accounts. So far they have been foiled, but if things get bad enough, who knows what they will get away with.
Supposedly, we have enough oil in the ground, locked up in shale or whatever it is that they have to "frack" to recover, that we could become the largest exporter of oil in the world, but the tree huggers are protesting the fracking, and I'm not sure we have enough refineries left to process the oil once we get it out of the ground. We also have a lot of natural gas that can be liquefied and shipped to Europe, but we lack the infrastructure to do this. And tankers to transport it in it's liquid state. This isn't tin foil hat stuff, this is from real geologists and scientists and economists. Of course we have Obama opposing efforts to get to these resources, and banning off shore drilling, and opposing things like the Keystone pipeline that would create a lot of jobs, and bring a lot of oil into the US. I don't know why people are so opposed to the Keystone pipeline. Most of the areas it goes through already has much older oil pipelines running through it already. Modern technology would alert us if it was leaking anywhere. If we could get going on some of this stuff, it might ease the crash quite a bit, but too many people don't want oil drilled off shore, or fracking, or a pipeline, or anything else that might harm the environment. I don't want to wreck the environment either, but I'd rather take a chance on spilling a drop of oil, than to lose everything and starve. I suppose that some minds will change when the Uncle Sam quits handing out the checks and food stamps every month.

[JohnR]

Who thinks President Nero is intentionally trying to provoke civil unrest/revolution? Good excuse to suspend elections and rule indefinitely, and crush those evil capitalist freedom-loving gun & bible clinging neanderthals once and for all.

[knkali]

Who thinks President Nero is intentionally trying to provoke civil unrest/revolution? Good excuse to suspend elections and rule indefinitely, and crush those evil capitalist freedom-loving gun & bible clinging neanderthals once and for all.

that's a reach my gun loving American friend

[DavidS]

I fear that the American economy cannot be fixed any more. The political parties are so polarized that nothing can get done. They look like the Sunni's and Shiites's, not even willing to negotiate.
The next great presidential candidate may be guaranteed to fix the economy and save us all. However, that candidate my believe gay marriage is wrong and also that abortion should be available on demand. That candidate will never be allowed to be the Republican candidate because of abortion or the Democratic candidate because of gay rights. We would rather cut off our noses and flush the country down the toilet than deviate one iota from our political party's platform. I blame the far right and the far left for this and you might as well call them what they are - extremists.
I have said it before in this forum and got slammed for it, but the only way to get anything done is compromise. :behindsofa:

[muggsy]

Knkali, I know how you value my opinion, so allow me to say this. I am a soldier of fortune. I've made fortunes and lost fortunes. At present I am between fortunes. My philosophy is that you can't take it with you, so why worry. Live for the moment and enjoy life. Or as Alfred E. Newman always said, "What, me worry?" (There is a way to make money in any situation.)

[yqtszhj]

I work for a global company and was recently required to attend a seminar led by an economist whose job it was to tell the officers of the corporation (which I am NOT one) the direction of the US and global economy for the next years and where the growth would be. Basically he was paid to tell the truth and not sugar coat anything so they wouldmknow where to invest. He was all history, numbers, and charts. He said some things that were interesting and eye opening.

It was way too long to post here but here are a few facts:
We went through a depression but they called it the "Great Recession" because the D word would not let any of them to get re-elected.
We will be going through this until 2020 at least no matter what any of them say
In this century to a large extent global poverty will be wiped out. There may still be isolated pockets due to war and such
The positive impact of poverty reduction would be at the expense of lackluster economies in developed nations (think the US and Europe)
We dont have sufficient working americans paying taxes to support the entitlements that our government is giving away.
We better get people working in this country and not pay them for sitting around
For a particular reasons I won't mention here 25% of the middle class will drop to the lower poor class.
BUT those who choose to do whatever it takes to be successful they will be all ok. Its their choice.
His concerns were to get his children to realize these facts.

[knkali]

I work for a global company and was recently required to attend a seminar led by an economist whose job it was to tell the officers of the corporation (which I am NOT one) the direction of the US and global economy for the next years and where the growth would be. Basically he was paid to tell the truth and not sugar coat anything so they wouldmknow where to invest. He was all history, numbers, and charts. He said some things that were interesting and eye opening.

It was way too long to post here but here are a few facts:
We went through a depression but they called it the "Great Recession" because the D word would not let any of them to get re-elected.
We will be going through this until 2020 at least no matter what any of them say
In this century to a large extent global poverty will be wiped out. There may still be isolated pockets due to war and such
The positive impact of poverty reduction would be at the expense of lackluster economies in developed nations (think the US and Europe)
We dont have sufficient working americans paying taxes to support the entitlements that our government is giving away.
We better get people working in this country and not pay them for sitting around
For a particular reasons I won't mention here 25% of the middle class will drop to the lower poor class.
BUT those who choose to do whatever it takes to be successful they will be all ok. Its their choice.
His concerns were to get his children to realize these facts.

wow just f'n wow

[knkali]

Knkali, I know how you value my opinion, so allow me to say this. I am a soldier of fortune. I've made fortunes and lost fortunes. At present I am between fortunes. My philosophy is that you can't take it with you, so why worry. Live for the moment and enjoy life. Or as Alfred E. Newman always said, "What, me worry?" (There is a way to make money in any situation.)

I love you Muggs and your opinions. I do worry a lot. Where is my medication........................

[DavidS]

Knkali, I know how you value my opinion, so allow me to say this. I am a soldier of fortune. I've made fortunes and lost fortunes. At present I am between fortunes. My philosophy is that you can't take it with you, so why worry. Live for the moment and enjoy life. Or as Alfred E. Newman always said, "What, me worry?" (There is a way to make money in any situation.)
I do not worry about my own future, there probably is not that much of it left.
I do worry about those who I will leave behind, and it concerns me greatly.

[JohnR]

I work for a global company and was recently required to attend a seminar led by an economist whose job it was to tell the officers of the corporation (which I am NOT one) the direction of the US and global economy for the next years and where the growth would be. Basically he was paid to tell the truth and not sugar coat anything so they wouldmknow where to invest. He was all history, numbers, and charts. He said some things that were interesting and eye opening.

It was way too long to post here but here are a few facts:
We went through a depression but they called it the "Great Recession" because the D word would not let any of them to get re-elected.
We will be going through this until 2020 at least no matter what any of them say
In this century to a large extent global poverty will be wiped out. There may still be isolated pockets due to war and such
The positive impact of poverty reduction would be at the expense of lackluster economies in developed nations (think the US and Europe)
We dont have sufficient working americans paying taxes to support the entitlements that our government is giving away.
We better get people working in this country and not pay them for sitting around
For a particular reasons I won't mention here 25% of the middle class will drop to the lower poor class.
BUT those who choose to do whatever it takes to be successful they will be all ok. Its their choice.
His concerns were to get his children to realize these facts.
I call BS. The rich getting poorer doesn't cause the poor to get richer. I think your company got ripped off by bad advisors.

[yqtszhj]

wow just f'n wow

If you think that one was good the follow up was a woman from bawannas area. At 5 she was one of the boat people from Vietnam. When they fled it was her, her 4 year old sister, mother, and grandmother on the boat with other people. When they got on the boat they had poison they would all take if the pirates got them because they would have been sold into sex trade. They made it to Australia and long story short after years of hard work she is some kind orf scientist and invented a cap that goes on a persons head and when plugged into a computer will show brain rythems and allow paralyzed person to move things with their mind. She now lives in Seattle.

The last thing she said is that since now shes married and wants to have children she had concerns. She doesnt want to wish the boat and struggling on them but is afraid they wont have the drive and appreciation she and her family had because her kids won't start out on the boat. Something to think about...

[mr surveyor]

I call BS. The rich getting poorer doesn't cause the poor to get richer. I think your company got ripped off by bad advisors.

I agree 100%!

and I'm certainly not "rich" in the monetary sense.

[yqtszhj]

I call BS. The rich getting poorer doesn't cause the poor to get richer. I think your company got ripped off by bad advisors.

Nope, the middle class getting poorer is due to trade being moved overseas due to cheaper labor. Look at China, India, and the Philippines and that is what he was talking about. There is the evedence of that now. The rich stay rich. Where's the factories and call centers? Not here.... if we're going to make it we need to lead in technology. I've been saying that for years.

[knkali]

If you think that one was good the follow up was a woman from bawannas area. At 5 she was one of the boat people from Vietnam. When they fled it was her, her 4 year old sister, mother, and grandmother on the boat with other people. When they got on the boat they had poison they would all take if the pirates got them because they would have been sold into sex trade. They made it to Australia and long story short after years of hard work she is some kind orf scientist and invented a cap that goes on a persons head and when plugged into a computer will show brain rythems and allow paralyzed person to move things with their mind. She now lives in Seattle.

The last thing she said is that since now shes married and wants to have children she had concerns. She doesnt want to wish the boat and struggling on them but is afraid they wont have the drive and appreciation she and her family had because her kids won't start out on the boat. Something to think about...
Yah I have met a lot of refugees from that part of the world who got a hand out when they came here, got on their feet and kick azzz. Love hearing about successful people who benefit from our system and then contribute back into it. They way it is supposed to work.

[knkali]

I do not worry about my own future, there probably is not that much of it left.
I do worry about those who I will leave behind, and it concerns me greatly.
Not much left? I hope you are wrong there.

[DavidS]

Not much left? I hope you are wrong there.
Thanks for the vote, I hope you are right. I would like to be here for a long time to come, I am REALLY enjoying life these days.
Actually, I do not worry about my own future because I have been blessed with a wonderful life of family, success, and experiences that many only dream of. If it all ended tomorrow, it has been a full life with no regrets and a great ride. If it does not, it is another day of fun.

[OldLincoln]

My pessimistic nature agrees something bad is around the corner. It was there when I was a kid and still here. However the posted chart is not it.

According to that 1929/2014 chart we should be in deep dodo now, yet the DIA hit it's highest Mid July. What about the lowest in March, well that was 1929 but in 2014 while it did dip in March it wasn't near the low which was in Feb. I'm definitely NOT saying this isn't a mathematical dip/rebound on the way to the cellar but the manipulators know. And take it to the bank the market IS manipulated and they suck up individual investors like cannon fodder.

No matter how good your data flow is, it's always at least a second behind those guys. You might get a slice for a while but that's like the slot machine tossing out a few tokens while it empties your pockets. I've been totally out of the market for years and never again.

[O'Dell]

I fear that the American economy cannot be fixed any more. The political parties are so polarized that nothing can get done. They look like the Sunni's and Shiites's, not even willing to negotiate.
The next great presidential candidate may be guaranteed to fix the economy and save us all. However, that candidate my believe gay marriage is wrong and also that abortion should be available on demand. That candidate will never be allowed to be the Republican candidate because of abortion or the Democratic candidate because of gay rights. We would rather cut off our noses and flush the country down the toilet than deviate one iota from our political party's platform. I blame the far right and the far left for this and you might as well call them what they are - extremists.
I have said it before in this forum and got slammed for it, but the only way to get anything done is compromise. :behindsofa:

No argument here! The 'social conservatives' will be the death of us all. Do you really think that Obama could have won twice if these idiots hadn't stayed home, and by doing so, handed him the election.

[O'Dell]

Nope, the middle class getting poorer is due to trade being moved overseas due to cheaper labor. Look at China, India, and the Philippines and that is what he was talking about. There is the evedence of that now. The rich stay rich. Where's the factories and call centers? Not here.... if we're going to make it we need to lead in technology. I've been saying that for years.

One move would go a long way in reducing that trend. Pass the FairTax and eliminate corporate taxes!

[JohnR]

Nope, the middle class getting poorer is due to trade being moved overseas due to cheaper labor. Look at China, India, and the Philippines and that is what he was talking about. There is the evedence of that now. The rich stay rich. Where's the factories and call centers? Not here.... if we're going to make it we need to lead in technology. I've been saying that for years.
I see what he's saying, there. I think he's not looking deep enough, though. The developing world will most likely never catch up to the standard of living in America and Europe. I recommend Harry Dent's book Demographic Cliff for the explanation.

The demographic inevitability is that the developed world's population will eventually decrease when the baby boom generation has passed on. The boom created more demand for goods and services from the '50s until the '90s, which we saw as a great growth period. Most people erroneously attributed it to politicians, but they had almost nothing to do with it. To see why that growth period has ended, understand that the average person's spending peaks some time before they retire, then their personal spending plummets. That creates less demand for goods and services among the retired generation (except for health care right at the end), which we are seeing now since 2008. If you were born in 1946 and retired at 65, you retired in 2011. The same is true for Europe. Also Japan, though their cycle already passed and they are in a demographic death spiral.

The generations that followed the boomers are less in number, so it's inevitable that economic demand will fall. That affects China and India, since they are the suppliers for that demand. As we go, they follow. Falling demand means falling prices - deflation.

[Longitude Zero]

Tough times come and go tough people win. Are we in for some rough times probably. Cataclysmic collapse well for the Chicken Little manner of thinking disaster is ALWAYS just around the corner. Unless WWIII breaks out in America my overall assessment is upward and not pessimistic. The smart play is to look at cycles that run in decades or more. Looking at yearly cyclics is a well known uneducated way of looking. Just like the weather look in decades of data not year to year.

[DavidS]

I see what he's saying, there. I think he's not looking deep enough, though. The developing world will most likely never catch up to the standard of living in America and Europe. I recommend Harry Dent's book Demographic Cliff for the explanation.

The demographic inevitability is that the developed world's population will eventually decrease when the baby boom generation has passed on. The boom created more demand for goods and services from the '50s until the '90s, which we saw as a great growth period. Most people erroneously attributed it to politicians, but they had almost nothing to do with it. To see why that growth period has ended, understand that the average person's spending peaks some time before they retire, then their personal spending plummets. That creates less demand for goods and services among the retired generation (except for health care right at the end), which we are seeing now since 2008. If you were born in 1946 and retired at 65, you retired in 2011. The same is true for Europe. Also Japan, though their cycle already passed and they are in a demographic death spiral.

The generations that followed the boomers are less in number, so it's inevitable that economic demand will fall. That affects China and India, since they are the suppliers for that demand. As we go, they follow. Falling demand means falling prices - deflation.
I disagree with that analysis based upon this statement "The demographic inevitability is that the developed world's population will eventually decrease when the baby boom generation has passed on."
The world's population will decrease in its rate of growth and is already doing so. However, the world's population will continue to grow and thus economic demand will follow.

[Longitude Zero]

I disagree with that analysis based upon this statement "The demographic inevitability is that the developed world's population will eventually decrease when the baby boom generation has passed on."
The world's population will decrease in its rate of growth and is already doing so. However, the world's population will continue to grow and thus economic demand will follow.

Agreed. There is NO empirical data that says the world population is doing anything but growing. So is the population of the USA.

[yqtszhj]

I see what he's saying, there. I think he's not looking deep enough, though. The developing world will most likely never catch up to the standard of living in America and Europe. I recommend Harry Dent's book Demographic Cliff for the explanation.

The demographic inevitability is that the developed world's population will eventually decrease when the baby boom generation has passed on. The boom created more demand for goods and services from the '50s until the '90s, which we saw as a great growth period. Most people erroneously attributed it to politicians, but they had almost nothing to do with it. To see why that growth period has ended, understand that the average person's spending peaks some time before they retire, then their personal spending plummets. That creates less demand for goods and services among the retired generation (except for health care right at the end), which we are seeing now since 2008. If you were born in 1946 and retired at 65, you retired in 2011. The same is true for Europe. Also Japan, though their cycle already passed and they are in a demographic death spiral.

The generations that followed the boomers are less in number, so it's inevitable that economic demand will fall. That affects China and India, since they are the suppliers for that demand. As we go, they follow. Falling demand means falling prices - deflation.

Agree. He was saying the same thing. Hard to get all the info from a few hours in a forum post. He also talked about how american students are soft and like to take classes that make them feel good because they can make good grades easily without working too hard and we're not having enough college graduates in engineering, math, and physics students to meet the future need. Too many english and humanities degrees because they are easier.

When the developing countries go from $2 to $10 a day in wages they can now afford food and think its great but they still live in a cardboard house but we're heading the way of europe.

But like longitude said the dude also said the tough people who will work will still win. We're just training too many to be "dependant" which is a big issue. Politicians are an issue because they won't do whats needed to go the right direction b3cause they wont get reelected.

[b4uqzme]

The bad: I am convinced we are heading for another "bubble" bursting. Not just the dot.com companies or the real estate market. This time it will be our entire economy.

The good: Although we will hit rock-bottom, Americans are resilient and will have the chance to cast off all that is bad about our politics and get back to what made us thrive in the first place = hard work and freedom. We were the greatest country in the world when we were still pissing in outhouses and we can do it again.

The warning: This will be toughest on the free-loaders...those who don't believe in hard work or freedom. And they will fight back hard once their meal ticket is taken away.

I think this is the point of the article. It's gonna be tough so...be prepared my friends.

[JohnR]

As long as the crash is sooner rather than later, the young lazy slobs will have the older generation's wisdom to tap into, at least someone will remember what hard work and dedication is all about.

[muggsy]

John F. Kennedy once said that a rising tide floats all boats. I have to agree with him, because it did when I was in the Navy. What that has to do with the economy I have no idea, but the richest among us are those who are satisfied with what they have. I came into this world with nothing and plan to go out the same way. I'll probably drop a few bucks along the way. Hey, it only money and you can't take it with you. That's my philosophy.

[SlowBurn]

Because people are gullible, only a tiny fraction of us know the truth.

Some economists predict deflation on a significant scale. The stock market will crash and gold prices will plummet, but if you have cash it will be worth a lot more.

How can that be when the supply of dollars has increased so dramatically through quantitative easing by the Fed since 08? Won't the huge glut of dollars dilute the value of our cash? (This may not be the best forum for this issue but ...)

[yqtszhj]

More important, what will the guns I lost in tthat boating accident be worth?... :rolleyes:

[marshal kane]

Those guns you lost in the boating accident will now be worth a whole lot more now than you'd care to pay. I was a teenager when 1911A1 Colt semi-autos and single-actions were selling for $125 and my S&W Combat Masterpiece was selling for under $90. Try replacing them today at those prices. Quality made guns hold their price and tend to appreciate over time.

[DavidS]

Those guns you lost in the boating accident will now be worth a whole lot more now than you'd care to pay. I was a teenager when 1911A1 Colt semi-autos and single-actions were selling for $125 and my S&W Combat Masterpiece was selling for under $90. Try replacing them today at those prices. Quality made guns hold their price and tend to appreciate over time.
Bought a Colt Python in mid-90's for $650. Put about 25 rounds through it and put it back in its box. Checked it's value this spring - $3300!. Going-going-gone. Sold it two weeks later.

[RevRay]

The only thing still in doubt is when ... not if ... and when could be very soon or not for a while.

[O'Dell]

I bought a Python around 1970 for under $250. I shot maybe 50 rounds and confirmed that I don't like revolvers. I sold it for $900 ten or twelve years ago.

[muggsy]

I bought a Python around 1970 for under $250. I shot maybe 50 rounds and confirmed that I don't like revolvers. I sold it for $900 ten or twelve years ago.

Now there's a man who knows how to do business. :)

[DavidS]

I bought a Python around 1970 for under $250. I shot maybe 50 rounds and confirmed that I don't like revolvers. I sold it for $900 ten or twelve years ago.
I liked mine, it just did not have a purpose so ......