A Curious Mind Wants to Know

[muggsy]

According to the independent autopsy Michael Brown was shot by the police officer at least six times. MIchael Brown was 6'4" tall weighed 285 pounds and was standing 35 feet from the patrol car. We do not as yet know how far away he was standing from the officer. If you wanted to kill someone who was standing still with his arms up raised 35 feet away how many times would you have to shoot? (Jocko need not reply.) Just sayin. Food for thought.

[HSparrow]

Just once

[ltxi]

@ minimum double tap always required

[Bawanna]

Well Jesse Jackson say they weren't no reason to shoot that boy atall. That has to be worth sumthin?

I'd like to see some of the real world witness statements and facts. Not all this media hype.

Ole Holder is enroute to oversee things, this ought to be good.

[b4uqzme]

According to the independent autopsy Michael Brown was shot by the police officer at least six times. MIchael Brown was 6'4" tall weighed 285 pounds and was standing 35 feet from the patrol car. We do not as yet know how far away he was standing from the officer. If you wanted to kill someone who was standing still with his arms up raised 35 feet away how many times would you have to shoot? (Jocko need not reply.) Just sayin. Food for thought.

All of 'em. :-)

[muggsy]

The officers statement was that he first stopped the pair because they were walking in the middle of the street. Brown told the officer that they didn't have far to go and the pair continued walking. That's when the officer got the call about the robbery at the convenience store and called for back-up. When he started to exit the vehicle Brown attacked and assaulted the officer and tried to get his gun. The officers gun went off inside of the police vehicle and that's when the pair started to run down the street. The officer yelled for them to freeze and Brown stopped and turned. Words were exchanged and Brown said something to the effect that he didn't think that the officer would shoot him. He was taunting the officer and then suddenly charged him. The officer thinking that brown must be on something and fearing for his life shot Brown several times. (As reported by Shawn Hannity of Fox News.)

[deadeye]

Finally something that makes sense. I am afraid that Ovomits Holder is going to try to sacrifice the officer to pacify the mob. I don't know how anyone could be a LEO in this day and age. I for one could not do it and admire those than can. According to the media the grand jury will only hear the Brown's side of the story. Rick Perry's lawyers said a grand jury would indite a ham sandwich. Too bad.

[DavidS]

I find that what Hannity says often needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Not saying he is wrong but wondering where he got such detailed information.

[ced_56]

The way I was taught (military personnel) is that you keep shooting til they stop coming closer. But I agree always two shot minimum after that depends on if they are still coming towards you.

sadly I think that no matter what is found to be the truth they will convict the officer and throw away the key just to appeas the masses.

[yqtszhj]

Finally something that makes sense. I am afraid that Ovomits Holder is going to try to sacrifice the officer to pacify the mob. I don't know how anyone could be a LEO in this day and age. I for one could not do it and admire those than can. According to the media the grand jury will only hear the Brown's side of the story. Rick Perry's lawyers said a grand jury would indite a ham sandwich. Too bad.

Guilty officer or not Holder is going to sacrifice the officer because holder is a racist.

[yqtszhj]

The way I was taught (military personnel) is that you keep shooting til they stop coming closer. But I agree always two shot minimum after that depends on if they are still coming towards you.

sadly I think that no matter what is found to be the truth they will convict the officer and throw away the key just to appeas the masses.

^^^^^^ what he said ^^^^^^

[berettabone]

According to the independent autopsy Michael Brown was shot by the police officer at least six times. MIchael Brown was 6'4" tall weighed 285 pounds and was standing 35 feet from the patrol car. We do not as yet know how far away he was standing from the officer. If you wanted to kill someone who was standing still with his arms up raised 35 feet away how many times would you have to shoot? (Jocko need not reply.) Just sayin. Food for thought.

The size of this person.......................more than once...........................

[TheLastDaze]

The obvious answer to your question would be zero, you don't shoot someone standing still with their arms up, and I highly doubt that's the truth...to be honest I haven't even been following the story... Personally I think the media likes to fuse riots, instigate anger, and as a whole simply gets off on chaos....If he in fact shot him with his arms in the air he needs be tried for murder,plain and simple... but 6 shots later I highly doubt thats true

[muggsy]

I find that what Hannity says often needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Not saying he is wrong but wondering where he got such detailed information.

The information came from a white female who is a close personal friend of the officer. Her telling of his statement was taped and played on the air verbatim. She didn't stutter or speak in tongues.

[muggsy]

The obvious answer to your question would be zero, you don't shoot someone standing still with their arms up, and I highly doubt that's the truth...to be honest I haven't even been following the story... Personally I think the media likes to fuse riots, instigate anger, and as a whole simply gets off on chaos....If he in fact shot him with his arms in the air he needs be tried for murder,plain and simple... but 6 shots later I highly doubt thats true

The point being that if Michael Brown was standing with his arms raised it would not have taken more than one shot to kill him. Of course you don't shoot at someone who has surrendered, but you do shoot at someone who is charging you until the threat is stopped. If I wanted to kill a black, or anyone else for that matter, I wouldn't do it in broad daylight on a busy street in front of dozens of witnesses. I guess that what I'm trying to say here is use your common sense. The first charge that you hear from any perp in every arrest is police brutality and the use of excessive force. This officer had a spotless record with no citizen complaints in the six years that he served on the force. Michael Brown had just committed a strong arm robbery caught on video tape and preliminary toxicology reports state the he had marijuana in his system. Who's story do you believe, the cops story of that of Brown's accomplice in the robbery?

[knkali]

There is no question that things do not pass the smell test. Hopefully we can sort all this out.

[muggsy]

If our justice system falls to mob rule, rioting and insurrection our country is in very serious trouble.

[SlowBurn]

If a taller person is standing still, 35 feet away, with his arms in the air, how could you shoot him in the top of the head? The only way I can think of is if the bullet ricochets off a helicopter. The med examiner hired by the Brown family says that bullet entered Brown's brain from the top, and caused almost instant unconsciousness, collapse and death.

On the other hand, if, as the officer's story goes, Mr. Brown put his head down to bull-rush Officer Wilson...

My prediction is that, like Zimmerman, Officer Wilson will be indicted despite overwhelming evidence of innocence to appease the mob. And like Zimmerman, he will eventually be acquitted after his life is severely damaged, which will be the occasion for more rioting and death threats against the jurors.

[knkali]

If our justice system falls to mob rule, rioting and insurrection our country is in very serious trouble.
amen

[marcinstl]

sorry but this ain't hollywood where the good guy shoots the gun out of the bad guys hand. sorry cops don't shoot like Jerry Miculeck. depending on the version of the story, the kid was entirely innocent, on his knees, hands up and executed -OR- the first shot was fired in the patrol car as the Big Kid was chasing the officer around the front seat. is there blood and bullet casing in the car? what's the results of the autopsies and crime scene investigations?
here's some facts we do know-- Ferguson, pop.20k is 70%B/30%W, yet the mayor and police dept. are white. how/why is that? how does a white mayor get elected in a black town and hire white cops to pick on the blacks? you would have to look at voter registration and results from elections to see that the black majority doesn't register or vote. wonder what the NAACP and the Rev. Al have got to say about that. if there was a black mayor and an all black police dept. would this have happened? of course it would. just wouldn't be as news worthy.

[knkali]

sorry but this ain't hollywood where the good guy shoots the gun out of the bad guys hand. sorry cops don't shoot like Jerry Miculeck. depending on the version of the story, the kid was entirely innocent, on his knees, hands up and executed -OR- the first shot was fired in the patrol car as the Big Kid was chasing the officer around the front seat. is there blood and bullet casing in the car? what's the results of the autopsies and crime scene investigations?
here's some facts we do know-- Ferguson, pop.20k is 70%B/30%W, yet the mayor and police dept. are white. how/why is that? how does a white mayor get elected in a black town and hire white cops to pick on the blacks? you would have to look at voter registration and results from elections to see that the black majority doesn't register or vote. wonder what the NAACP and the Rev. Al have got to say about that. if there was a black mayor and an all black police dept. would this have happened? of course it would. just wouldn't be as news worthy.
I bet after this situation, there will be more "community awareness training" followed by a shift of more black officers than white ones in mostly black communities from now on.

[Ikeo74]

The first story came from Browns friend that was an accomplish in the strong arm robbery. So are you going to believe his story? Next, if brown was standing with his arms raised above his head in surrender, would the policeman have shot over his head 3 times to hit his arm? Hell no. Next if the Officer was seated in his car and Brown was standing beside the door, how could the Officer reach up high enough to grab a 6 foot 4 inch man by the neck to pull him into the car? The first so called eye witness's story is so full of BS that it is unbelievable.
They will put the policeman on trial but there is no way in hell that he will be convicted after the facts are sorted out. Then more riots..........

[Bawanna]

They'll convict him to appease the masses and stop the riots. Facts have nothing to do with the whole PC thing.

Law Enforcement is one of the few professions where you can do everything correct and well and still get fired or go to prison. Now that the Governor and Holden want to hang him, it's pretty much game over for him.

The officer should bail, head out west here, we could use more good cops.

[Ikeo74]

They'll convict him to appease the masses and stop the riots. Facts have nothing to do with the whole PC thing.

Law Enforcement is one of the few professions where you can do everything correct and well and still get fired or go to prison. Now that the Governor and Holden want to hang him, it's pretty much game over for him.

The officer should bail, head out west here, we could use more good cops.
I don't think they will convict him after all the facts are in. 1. Criminal history of Brown 2. Toxicology report from autopsy. 3. Viewing the strong arm robbery film. 4. Film of Brown making gang hand signs. 5. Giving lie detector tests to witnesses.

The criminal Justice System still works, doesn't it?

[berettabone]

I agree with some others..................drag him through the mud...................find him innocent............................riots to continue.................................

[Ikeo74]

If the Policeman gets convicted, I am thinking of driving to Ferguson to participate in the "White Peoples Riot" that will take place soon after the conviction. Maybe it's time to come together.

[Bawanna]

Doing that would be lowering ourselves to their level. But I might go with you.

[TheLastDaze]

If the Policeman gets convicted, I am thinking of driving to Ferguson to participate in the "White Peoples Riot" that will take place soon after the conviction. Maybe it's time to come together.

lol, yeah like that will ever happen and when it does that means everything as we know it has turned south and taken a downward spiral...

I stand ignorant of the facts here folks as I haven't followed this story whatsoever but feel compelled to post as I've read through some of yours.. Problem here as I see stands as racial tension amongst their community, white cops, black citizens.... how would this play out with the media if the cop and the majority thereof were black??

non issue I'm sure, however because this young man (thug) had marijuana in his system is irrelevant to me, otoh PCP is a whole other animal.... Just because he was "high" doesn't (by a long stretch) make him an immediate threat, of course the witness' are lying there's tension there no doubt.. this officer (as I've read from your posts) has never as much as assaulted a black, so why all of a sudden has he placed a 'hit' on this guy?? makes zero sense, but I bet Charlie Manson is writhing in his cell rubbing his hands together in hopes this will turn into national warfare, and the sick twisted side of me wouldn't mind taking part...

[DavidR]

More information coming out today - the officer suffered a broken eye socket from the assault by Michael Brown.

[TheLastDaze]

More information coming out today - the officer suffered a broken eye socket from the assault by Michael Brown.

a broken eye socket is hardcore, that's a serious blow.... of course they'll twist it and say it was after the fact or even a self inflicted wound...!!!

[DavidS]

Guilty officer or not Holder is going to sacrifice the officer because holder is a racist.
And so is his boss.

[muggsy]

sorry but this ain't hollywood where the good guy shoots the gun out of the bad guys hand. sorry cops don't shoot like Jerry Miculeck. depending on the version of the story, the kid was entirely innocent, on his knees, hands up and executed -OR- the first shot was fired in the patrol car as the Big Kid was chasing the officer around the front seat. is there blood and bullet casing in the car? what's the results of the autopsies and crime scene investigations?
here's some facts we do know-- Ferguson, pop.20k is 70%B/30%W, yet the mayor and police dept. are white. how/why is that? how does a white mayor get elected in a black town and hire white cops to pick on the blacks? you would have to look at voter registration and results from elections to see that the black majority doesn't register or vote. wonder what the NAACP and the Rev. Al have got to say about that. if there was a black mayor and an all black police dept. would this have happened? of course it would. just wouldn't be as news worthy.

Unless you're a racist the color of the cop and the perp are of no consequence. Just because the make up of the city is 30/70 doesn't necessitate that the make up of the police dept be 30 /70. Of course if a black cop had shot the unarmed 18 year old 6'4" 295 pound child the 70 percent of the population wouldn't be rioting or calling for "justice" now would they? Hell no.

[marcinstl]

2nd quiet night, no teargas. in a few more days the only people out there will be Fox news. hehehehehe. so the grand jury gets to look at 3 autopsies and from what the news was saying this morning, some details of the officers wounds(face lacerations, broken eye socket). if the first people on the scene didn't walk all over the evidence, this should be possible to reconstruct the events.
(side bar--- ya know how little towns with a few feet of frontage on a highway send officers out there to generate funds? I was pulled over about a month ago by a Ferguson cop on I-270 for a 72 in a 60. paid the ticket $100. the ticket is signed by Officer Wilson. if this is the same cop, he's not a big guy and unlike the Capt.'s and Lt.'s who carry Glocks, Officer Wilson appeared to have one of the old cop model (DAO) Beretta's. not my first choice of a weapon.)
are the people of Ferguson going to institute change and work for the better? or was this just and excuse to party and bullshit, rob and steal? come back in a year and tell me what you see.

[ltxi]

72 in a 60 don't qualify as speed trap/revenue generator. Not even in Missouri.

[Armybrat]

Doing that would be lowering ourselves to their level. But I might go with you.
Could you bring back a 50" flat screen TV for me if you do? A Samsung 1080P if you got the time - and any were missed by the first waves of looters.

If not, a new IPad or similar device will do. ;-)

[marcinstl]

there's 92 little towns, villages, burgs around the city limits of St. Louis. almost all of them have some sort of police dept. maybe 2 cops, maybe 50, depends on the size of the place. if a municipality has a few feet of frontage on a highway they will put a car out there and sell tickets. is that protecting anybody, stopping accidents, or is it highway robbery? drive on I-70 past the airport, on any given day you can count as many as 5 different local police depts. and the Mo. highway patrol. everybody knows this so the customers are mostly out of towners, doing 60-70 in a 55. the speed limit on most highways in the metro area is 60. if your doing 60 stay in the right lane or get run over, most people do 70 or so. now 80 should get a ticket, 90 would be taserable. I'm an old time motorcycle rider and I don't drive speed limits, I drive the road, weather and traffic. getting a ticket every 30 yrs. proves your still alive?

[Bawanna]

Could you bring back a 50" flat screen TV for me if you do? A Samsung 1080P if you got the time - and any were missed by the first waves of looters.

If not, a new IPad or similar device will do. ;-)

You got it. Samsung 1080P, I'm written this down. What the heck is a IPad? Like a mouse pad. IPad, I should know this, think dammit. Sound it out I PAD. Lounge chair, WiFi hotspot with bean bag chairs? Never mind I'll google it.

[marcinstl]

get the big one, it's called a MaxiPad.
I'm reading in the news this morning about the trial of some thugs who killed a pizza delivery guy (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/last-of-three-defendants-admits-to-murder-of-imo-s/article_7d8793ec-6363-5242-8879-fdb63c00fc2a.html) and another trial for some thugs who killed a woman driving down the street (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/man-gets-years-in-prison-in-fatal-shooting-of-st/article_8faa09f0-2819-5ce1-8cd9-4fd1b2075bc0.html). where was the protests and riots for these dead people? nobody cares about a dead Bosnian kid working for a living or a totally innocent, middle aged black lady who was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

[Bawanna]

I'll start painting up some signs. We'll stage a protest and some riots and stuff.

I'm getting that big screen TV for Armybrat one way or another.

I'm still researching the IPad/Maxi Pad thing and I don't mind telling you I feel a little stooopid. I think my wife and kid even have one. I probably even paid for it?

[ltxi]

I'll start painting up some signs. We'll stage a protest and some riots and stuff.

I'm getting that big screen TV for Armybrat one way or another.

I'm still researching the IPad/Maxi Pad thing and I don't mind telling you I feel a little stooopid. I think my wife and kid even have one. I probably even paid for it?

You have a hard enough time with Window products/PCs. Do not get involved with Apple products. If you do, you'll end up like jocko....and start to spell like him, also.

[Bawanna]

Try to stay on track Itxi. We're talking electronics here, we'll talk apples and oranges in a separate thread.

Any you think I'll be like Jocko.......?

[ltxi]

there's 92 little towns, villages, burgs around the city limits of St. Louis. almost all of them have some sort of police dept. maybe 2 cops, maybe 50, depends on the size of the place. if a municipality has a few feet of frontage on a highway they will put a car out there and sell tickets. is that protecting anybody, stopping accidents, or is it highway robbery? drive on I-70 past the airport, on any given day you can count as many as 5 different local police depts. and the Mo. highway patrol. everybody knows this so the customers are mostly out of towners, doing 60-70 in a 55. the speed limit on most highways in the metro area is 60. if your doing 60 stay in the right lane or get run over, most people do 70 or so. now 80 should get a ticket, 90 would be taserable. I'm an old time motorcycle rider and I don't drive speed limits, I drive the road, weather and traffic. getting a ticket every 30 yrs. proves your still alive?

Given I'm not a native...been driving in and around St Louis routinely for over 20 years. A couple of times a year passing through on vacation with Colorado plates and on business in rentals. I tend to flow with traffic and mostly run nine to 10 over in the 55 and 60 zones with no worries about getting trampled. Never had a problem. That said, I'll be through there again next month and will now probably get get cited.

[yqtszhj]

You have a hard enough time with Window products/PCs. Do not get involved with Apple products. If you do, you'll end up like jocko....and start to spell like him, also.

He's right Colonel. Stay FAR away from apples products. They are strange beast, reliable but strange.

Wife has a mac and for the life of me if I make a file I cant find it anywhere if its not on the desktop. And dont try to burn a picture CD.

[Bawanna]

You guys just love talking way over my head don't ya? You'd think I was dumber than a box of rocks or something.

Even I know you can't burn pictures in your computer, their like little cyber dot thingamajiggy's and I don't think they burn very good.

I make files and can't find em all the time too, got nothing to do with Mac trucks neither.

[100percent]

Blow out fracture. I have seen a few of them in my professional life. All of the ones I have seen have been from full grown cows or bulls. 1000-2000 pound animals. At that point most are seeing double.

I'd assume anybody hitting that hard is out to take you out.

[Armybrat]

Given I'm not a native...been driving in and around St Louis routinely for over 20 years. A couple of times a year passing through on vacation with Colorado plates and on business in rentals. I tend to flow with traffic and mostly run nine to 10 over in the 55 and 60 zones with no worries about getting trampled. Never had a problem. That said, I'll be through there again next month and will now probably get get cited.
My family lived at Jefferson Barracks in St. Louis 1954-57 - before the city lost half its population to white flight to the 'burbs. Even back then we knew not to hang around in East St. Louis (Ill.) after dark.

[ltxi]

Ahh...East St Louis. Used to go down there and hang out in the dive bars sometimes when I was in my early 20's and dumber than box of rocks Bawanna.

[Bawanna]

Hey I was there during that time. Age zero to 3. Stayed 3 more years and got drug west fighting injuns, sage brush, and flash floods. Rode the whole window on the back window shelve of a 57 Chevy. I'm damn lucky to be alive.
No seat belts, probably licking lead paint off the window trim.

[yqtszhj]

Rode the whole window on the back window shelve of a 57 Chevy. I'm damn lucky to be alive.

I did that too. Life was great. When I was lucky enough to ride in the front I would sit on the door arm rest so I could see out the front window too. Passenger window was rolled down too. I remember back then we had a 1964 chevelle I think it was and mom would remove the keys from the ignition while driving down the road to let my little sister play with to keep her quiet while she was in one of those car seats that hung on the middle of the front seat. She'd get the keys back when it was time to turn off the car.

This is exactly what the car looked like. Wish I had it now.

[DavidS]

I'll start painting up some signs. We'll stage a protest and some riots and stuff.

I'm getting that big screen TV for Armybrat one way or another.

I'm still researching the IPad/Maxi Pad thing and I don't mind telling you I feel a little stooopid. I think my wife and kid even have one. I probably even paid for it?
Here's your chance! You can blow up the rally into a riot then head off to fill your shopping list. Gotta wait until dark though cause that seems to be the rule. http://www.pic4ever.com/images/pirates5B15D_th.gif
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/darren-wilson-supporters-rally-in-ferguson-we-are-all-darren-wilson/

[Bawanna]

I did that too. Life was great. When I was lucky enough to ride in the front I would sit on the door arm rest so I could see out the front window too. Passenger window was rolled down too. I remember back then we had a 1964 chevelle I think it was and mom would remove the keys from the ignition while driving down the road to let my little sister play with to keep her quiet while she was in one of those car seats that hung on the middle of the front seat. She'd get the keys back when it was time to turn off the car.

This is exactly what the car looked like. Wish I had it now.

You and me both brother. That car is probably worth a ton now.

[TheLastDaze]

I did that too. Life was great. When I was lucky enough to ride in the front I would sit on the door arm rest so I could see out the front window too. Passenger window was rolled down too. I remember back then we had a 1964 chevelle I think it was and mom would remove the keys from the ignition while driving down the road to let my little sister play with to keep her quiet while she was in one of those car seats that hung on the middle of the front seat. She'd get the keys back when it was time to turn off the car.

This is exactly what the car looked like. Wish I had it now.

huh !!!! you're killing me.... my biggest regret of all automobiles is selling my '65 Malibu SS, canary yellow, original paint/interior zero dents, rally sports the whole nine... sold it for $900 after I slammed sideways against a curb (don't ask)... ran into the guy I sold it to at a gas station 3 months later and he told me he replaced the rear end and has to weld the frame a little cost him a whole $180 to do the job and he sold the car as it was for $5500.... this was back in '92 so you do the math today....

hate myself for drinking like I was 21 back then.....stoooopid kids

[knkali]

huh !!!! you're killing me.... my biggest regret of all automobiles is selling my '65 Malibu SS, canary yellow, original paint/interior zero dents, rally sports the whole nine... sold it for $900 after I slammed sideways against a curb (don't ask)... ran into the guy I sold it to at a gas station 3 months later and he told me he replaced the rear end and has to weld the frame a little cost him a whole $180 to do the job and he sold the car as it was for $5500.... this was back in '92 so you do the math today....

hate myself for drinking like I was 21 back then.....stoooopid kids

don't beat yourself too hard. No one was hurt and you wanted to make a change in your life. The car reminded you of what you did not want to be any longer. The price of your freedom from the past is priceless.

[TheLastDaze]

don't beat yourself too hard. No one was hurt and you wanted to make a change in your life. The car reminded you of what you did not want to be any longer. The price of your freedom from the past is priceless.

Amen to that.... wrong crowd of people, places, things... you know the drill

besides I was young and into hotrods which made me cool... :0) not so much...

thread derailed: my first car at 16 was a '74 Nova with a vette motor.. fun times those days... I have at times thought about chipping my diesel and adding a performance tranny but reality kicks in and realize where I'm at...

[muggsy]

Not to be left out, I once owned a '68 Chevelle SS with a 350 HP 396 and a Muncie four speed with a posi-traction rear end. The only thing I couldn't pass was a gas station. Replaced the quadra jet with a 650 CFM Holley.