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View Full Version : Kahr Review: After 800 Rounds Is the CM9 Reliable Enough to Carry?



Rhead Louis
08-30-2014, 10:50 AM
An extensive CM9 break-in period and a down-select of defensive ammo requiring five (5) different range trips each firing +/- 150 rounds is now complete. The only objectives were to break-in the gun, determine what ammo would be carried and determine reliability. The Kahr owner’s manual, the information available on Kahr Talk, and all the YouTube videos by Shooting the Bull 410’s Ammo Quest for the best 9mm short barrel ammo were reviewed prior to any range time. No ballistics work was done as that provided on YouTube by Shooting the Bull was accepted as presented.
Following each range trip the CM9 was field stripped and thoroughly cleaned and lubricated in accordance with the owner’s manual and Sticky Post instructions and Lube diagrams on the Kahr Talk site. The two six (6) round magazines used for range work were checked for proper spring insertion (evidently this has been an issue) and then cleaned after each firing and left un-lubricated. The following eight hundred (800) rounds (210 premium defensive rounds) of ammunition were used:

- 450 rounds of Blazer 115 gr. JHP
- 40 rounds Hardball re-loads
- 40 rounds Federal Personal Defense 115 gr. JHP
- 20 rounds Barnes TAC-XPD +P 115 gr.
- 50 rounds Remington Golden Saber 124 Grain JHP
- 50 rounds Winchester 115 gr. JHP (White Box)
- 50 rounds Winchester 147 gr. JHP (White Box)
- 50 rounds Speer LE Gold Dot 124 gr. GDHP
- 50 rounds Federal Premium HST JHP 124 gr.


Reliability Results Following Five (5) Range Visits:

- Two (2) Failures to Feed (FTF) were noted early on within the first 50 rounds fired. No other FTF were experienced during the remaining 750 rounds fired. This was not considered a defect as the gun was new and unbroken. No Failures to Eject (FTE) were observed.

- Seven (7) Failures of the slide locking open with rounds still remaining in the magazine were noted. These failures occurred approximately two (2) times per every 150 rounds fired; five different loads were involved with defectives. All forty (40) re-load FMJ rounds functioned well. The final two (2) failures occurred on the 5th range visit – one in each magazine used.

The following actions were taken to eliminate or at least reduce the occurrences of this slide locking open failure.
- Prior to the five (5) range visits the owner’s manual and this Kahr Forum were thoroughly reviewed for advice on break-in, maintenance and ammo recommendations for the pistol. This advice was followed.

- When the very first “Slide remaining open prematurely” defect first occurred advice from Kahr Talk forum was sought and appropriate action taken as follows - The shooter used a shooting glove with wrist support and paid strict attention not to “limp wrist” the pistol. Using a two handed grip, the right thumb was placed immediately above the magazine release (about ½ inch below the slide lever) and the left thumb was kept aligned on top of the ring finger of the right hand to ensure the thumb did not come in contact with the slide lock. Prior to each magazine firing the grip was checked to ensure proper conformance. Thumb contact with the slide lever was eliminated early on as a potential cause of the problem.

- Every type/brand of round fired was checked by inserting a full magazine and clearance with the slide stop verified to ensure the bullet nose did not contact the lock and raise it.

- The slide stop spring was inspected per multiple Sticky posts numerous times and the spring and its alignment looked fine. The spring was tweaked downward a tad to put more tension on. The spring resting notch on the slide stop was very lightly lubed as recommended.

- The defect persisted.

- Following the last range visit I met with the gunsmith in the range shop to examine the pistol. He cycled the gun, removed and inspected the parts, checked the spring tension and clearance and said everything appeared to be correct. He also said that there have been a number of Kahr 9mm through the shop with the same issue. Of those, some occurrences of the problem were reduced; none to his knowledge were eliminated.

My Ammo Choice
After reviewing the information on Shooting the Bull, I selectively picked a number of the top ammo choices to fire. For me, I found that the Barnes TAC-XPD +P 115 gr. worked the best. I was able to consistently keep a tight grouping around the X ring at 15 feet and the perceived smoothness in the way the gun operated using Barnes Ammo impressed me. Barnes advertises less felt recoil due to the lighter all copper bullets, I found this to definitely be a true statement. Downside is that the stuff is way too pricey to target with.

My Dilemma
I will not carry this gun the way it is and I believe the CM9 should be returned to the Kahr Shop. The local Smith has doubts it will ever perform to my expectations and recommends that I continue my quest for a Pocket Nine rather than devote any more time or energy to the Kahr. I love the way it shoots and the size is perfect but I have serious doubts about reliability.

Can this pistol be made reliable without turning it into a hobby? I would hate to send it back to Kahr only to have just fewer occurrences of the same problem. Does anyone believe it can be permanently fixed or are there lingering doubts out there about the polymer frame and design of the slide lock?

jocko
08-30-2014, 11:12 AM
did u read the kahr tech section oin PROPPER PREPPING OF YOUR KAHR. There is some tips there to look at for the slide lock thing. IMO, 3 things can cause that.

1, thumb hitting the slide lock lever and shooter is unaware. Try shooting it left handed to see if persists, Let anutter good shooter shoot the gun to see if the issue persists.
2 Bullet is hitting the inside of the slide lock lever, u seem to have eliminated this yourselfr
3. slide lock sprinnghy is out of adjustment. Kahr prep thread addresses this, so I will not go into it. Wyn's photo also shows how that little spring should look. If that springlhy allows to much free play of the slide lock lever, u will getr periodic premature slide locking. this is easy to check out
4 It always helps to lett a good qualified shooter try ur gun to. Ur smitty should have shot it to see if he can produce the issues. I nev er want to say it is shooter error but one has to start somewhere to eliminate the possabilities of such.

as far as any reloads, doing anything wrong or right, I won't try to address that as I would always recommend factory new stuff for testing purposes.

don't give up, and if u finaly are at wits end, let kahr have it back on their time to see what is going on

deadeye
08-30-2014, 12:10 PM
It is so hard to understand why guns which are supposedly identical can be so different. Murphy's Law I guess. My CM9 has been 100% right out of the box. The only thing I've had happen is 2 FTE's after 2000 rounds. Changed the recoil spring as suggested, and right back to 100%. Surely Kahr will take it back and find the problem. Have a pretty good selection of hand guns but the CM9 is by far my favorite. Excellent for concealed carry. Wish you the best.

TheLastDaze
08-30-2014, 12:26 PM
Well to answer your questions at the bottom of your post..

The creator of the polymer frame (glock) has no problems with frame why would Kahr??

And if you're asking questions on a general gun forum as to 'if' this gun can be made reliable after you had a gunsmith look at it, I think you need another gunsmith.. just sayin

Also there is a spring under the slide lock that can be adjusted, apparently something is goofy there causing it to engage before mag is empty, the mag has a nub on it and when it reaches lock it engages, only when the mag is empty...

TheLastDaze
08-30-2014, 12:34 PM
Disregard some of my post regarding stop as i went back and actually read your post....

gb6491
08-30-2014, 12:44 PM
Well to answer your questions at the bottom of your post..

The creator of the polymer frame (glock) has no problems with frame why would Kahr??

And if you're asking questions on a general gun forum as to 'if' this gun can be made reliable after you had a gunsmith look at it, I think you need another gunsmith.. just sayin

Also there is a spring under the slide lock that can be adjusted, apparently something is goofy there causing it to engage before mag is empty, the mag has a nub on it and when it reaches lock it engages, only when the mag is empty...
Adjusting how tight the slide stop spring screw is (tighter limits the spring's movement around it) fixed a similar issue in my CW45.

I agree on the need for another gun smith.

FWIW, Glock is not the "creator" of the polymer frame. Heckler & Koch made the first polymer frame handgun.

Regards,
Greg

TheLastDaze
08-30-2014, 01:17 PM
Adjusting how tight the slide stop spring screw is (tighter limits the spring's movement around it) fixed a similar issue in my CW45.

I agree on the need for another gun smith.

FWIW, Glock is not the "creator" of the polymer frame. Heckler & Koch made the first polymer frame handgun.

Regards,
Greg

hmm, I didn't know that, thanks for the tidbit.....

however I will continue to believe glock created it, in what if any comfort it brings me...... yeah I'm a fanboy : )

Rhead Louis
08-30-2014, 01:28 PM
Adjusting how tight the slide stop spring screw is (tighter limits the spring's movement around it) fixed a similar issue in my CW45.

I agree on the need for another gun smith.

FWIW, Glock is not the "creator" of the polymer frame. Heckler & Koch made the first polymer frame handgun.

Regards,
Greg

Thanks, I'll try tightening the slide lock spring screw. Anyone know the size of the Torque head for sure - Smallest size I have is a T8 and I don't want to bring the gun frame into the hardware store trying out torque drivers - might scare someone.

b4uqzme
08-30-2014, 01:32 PM
hmm, I didn't know that, thanks for the tidbit.....

however I will continue to believe glock created it, in what if any comfort it brings me...... yeah I'm a fanboy : )

...and you'll no doubt continue to believe that Glock has no problems either. :-)


Not sure what to tell you OP...other than to listen to the advice of the Kahrtalk wise. I gotta believe every pistol can be made to run right but maybe I am naïve. Good luck.

TheLastDaze
08-30-2014, 01:34 PM
I don't have a Kahr yet to check but if you go to Harbor Freight they have a small set for like $3 that will fit on any screwdriver hexed head type thingys...

from the pics I've seen I'd say T6 but I'd just be guessing...

TheLastDaze
08-30-2014, 01:36 PM
...and you'll no doubt continue to believe that Glock has no problems either. :-)

I don't understand what you're talking about .... : )

BEARDOG
08-30-2014, 01:41 PM
I am not sure what all you have tried so far but...

The premature slide locking problem maybe from the bullets coming up and past, and slightly hitting the tip/edge of the of the slide lock lever.

You can check this by taking your slide off, Then re-install the slide lock lever into the frame, then slowly insert a full mag to see if you have bullet contact as it goes past.

The fix.
Increase spring pressure like Greg said may work.
Or
If you have a dremmel try to polish the tip area.
If not call Kahr and explain to them what it is doing and they most likely will send you a new polished slide stop to try.

muggsy
08-30-2014, 01:44 PM
There are literally thousands of Kahr pistols in service that don't have this issue. There are many that have had the problem cured. Some were cured of the problem by their owners and some by Kahr Arms service department. I agree with the others who commented. If your gunsmith can't cure this simple problem find another gunsmith, or send the gun back to Kahr. You don't have to look any further than Kahr to find the finest pocket 9MM made.

Buzzard45
08-30-2014, 02:17 PM
T-6 for slide lock spring screw; T-5 for the door over the trigger bar

jocko
08-30-2014, 02:46 PM
GB is right about the too tight on the little spring thing. but please remember, u are screwing this little ass ascress directly into POlymer, so u can over tighten it and strip the threads right out. SNUG is good. The thig to do is": take the sldie off the gun, now reinsert the slide lock lever, slowly push up on that lever, u should feel that little spring wanting to bring this lever downward. If that lever moves before engaging that little spring then, IMO that sprig is outta whack and migtht need rtweeked. A pair of long nose plier and u can tweet that spring tip downward, NOT UPWARD. Make sure that spring screew is snug but not preventing that little spring from moving upward and downaward freeely. I know this sounds complicated bt it is not. It is easy to check out, alot of times this little springhy gets bent inward by the owner upon insertion of the slide stop lever and they just don't know it. If u look at that slide stop lever on the inside of that lever u will see a nub, thatis what engages the magazine follower but look behind that nub and u will see a slight small groover. THATIS WHERE THAT SPRING TIP MUST LIE upon proper insertion. I always put a dab of grease on that ub, asit helps to slide over that spring tip better, and I also put very little grease on that little springhy to, It just helps inserting the slide lock lever easier. Just a tad will do the job.

It is a T6 screw that adjusts that springhy and I do stand corrected on this to, but I think it takes a T6 torx on that side plate also. I think the T5 relates to the 380 series. These guys here are sharp, so ask questions. BeforeI do anything, I would let a good shhooter test this gun to. U need not put 6 round sin the mag to test for last round staying open or premature slide lock.l Load 3 and keep doing it. If u can prduce an issue than anyone else should be able to. but if they cannot, then maybe u need to analyze what possably u could be doing wrong. I haver found that what smitty's I have talkedto around this area, know very little about kahrs and how they work. I would trust the guys o this forum first, and then if all else fails Kahr will fix it as Muggsy stated. I just do not feel this gun needs to gop back though.

downtownv
08-30-2014, 03:33 PM
Wait is somebody complaining about that springy thing being too tight?

No such thing!

jeepster09
08-30-2014, 04:10 PM
Wait is somebody complaining about that springy thing being too tight?

No such thing!

I say it looks just right!

muggsy
09-01-2014, 12:46 PM
I think I'd give it a little tweak for good measure. :)

muggsy
09-01-2014, 12:47 PM
No gun is totally reliable. That's why I carry a back-up gun.

jocko
09-01-2014, 05:55 PM
I could tweek it alog better. Just sayin

jocko
09-01-2014, 05:55 PM
then u have two unreliable guns--huh???

Rhead Louis
09-02-2014, 04:03 PM
After tightening the slide spring screw, I went to the range yesterday and ran 200 rounds thru the gun and my confidence level has improved a little. I had zero malfunctions related to the slide staying open. Previously, I was getting one defect in about 150 rounds. Hopefully, it will continue to maintain this good behavior. Also, got an email reply from Kahr this morning letting me know I can send the gun back to be worked on. Haven't made my mind up if I should send it back or keep it and run another couple hundred rounds through it myself. I've probably spent more on ammo breaking this in than the gun cost me in the first place so it would probably be cheaper and more re-assuring to send it back. The barrel lug is also getting quite rough on the edge and probably deserves a look see.

Shooting the Kahr yesterday I had one issue I've not encountered before (after about 100 rounds fired) - I put a full mag in and when I pulled the trigger on the second round -- no bang. I thought, darn, I haven't had a bad primer in years. I racked the slide back and to my surprise the chamber was empty and the magazine still had 6 rounds in it. My first guess was maybe I limp wrist-ed that one and it had enough force to eject the round but not enough to chamber another one -- any ideas on what causes this type of failure to feed ?

Appreciate all the recommendations everyone has provided - Thank you.

muggsy
09-02-2014, 06:38 PM
That's why I also carry a knife. Just in case.

TheLastDaze
09-02-2014, 08:24 PM
My first guess was maybe I limp wrist-ed that one and it had enough force to eject the round but not enough to chamber another one -- any ideas on what causes this type of failure to feed ?

Appreciate all the recommendations everyone has provided - Thank you.

normally if you limp wrist it will fail to eject, but who knows.. My first guess its mag related, when I load a mag I always try to remember to tap it either on my hand or on the bench lightly with boooolits facing up....

I'm on the same train, I think a gun should run out of the box, I always clean/lube a gun when I first get it whether new or used, just to make sure its to my liking....

I bought an Ruger SR22 about 6 weeks ago, haven't had a problem with it yet other then one light strike (notorious rimfire) after 1k rounds thus far, my Mark II has God only knows how many rounds and I've never had an issue.. these are rimfire pistols, a center fire pistol 'should' function with little to no attention..... justmytwocents