Fail to feed

[burkebill]

Had my Kahr PM40 out to the Tactical Handgun Class I took and here is my report. First let me say I used my new Springfield XDM 40 for the class never shot before. Fired flawlessly perfect record, not one fail to feed. After the class we decided to fire my new Kahr PM40 for the first time. Now I have racked the slide many many time manually to help the break in, no help at all every round failed to feed properly had to use the bottom of my hand to hit the slide in place to seat the next round.

Now I know all about the 200 round break in but, every round? I simply can't use this at all for my carry pistol. Had to send it back to Kahr as the extractor fell out before it was ever fired. They told me they test fired it and it was good to go. Go where to the safe never to be trusted? By the way no limp wrist I had a Kung Foo Grip. Spent a ton of money on this put a Crimson Trace on it ordered custom holsters and the like on this pistol.

Think I made a mistake also tried different amo no difference. Anyone have any Ideas? other than to say I have one and can't trust it. Put about 50 rounds:mad: through it no better. Perhaps if I were a one shot stopper in self defense it would be fine.

Can you tell Im not happy?

Bill Burke

[kahrseye]

Just curious Bill, what kind of ammo were you shooting? Sometimes these Kahrs can be a little tempermental.

[Bawanna]

Bill, your not happy. We're not happy and I don't think anyone is happy. It pains me immensely but I gotta disagree here with Kahrseye. Some Kahrs can be tempermental but generally they are not ammo sensitive.
We can work it out. Your doing the right thing by trying different ammo. It's been back to Kahr once? Extractor fell out, not a good sign.
I'd sure be ringing Kahrs bell to get guidance. Describe in detail what the failures to feed look like. Pictures if possible. Request a call tag to get it checked out again.
Sounds like they are starting in but not going into battery completely?
You've tried a different magazine? We're not talking reloads or strange bullet shapes?
Lets figure it out, love a good challenge.

[jocko]

I personally think the guns needs more rounds through it. I assume you have read in the kahr tech section the thread of PROPPER PREPPING OF YUR NEW KAHR. there are some tips that can help. Your gun is very tight yet, a good indication of that is the failure to go into full battery. Break in with fmj ammo if you can, alot cheaper to test the gun out to, once it is reliable, then go to defense stuff. Give it some more time before pitching it in the safe. The extractor thing is not good but that was a kahr assembly issue, not a design fault. Not alibying for kahr, just stating a fact. Kahr extractors are the best in the business. Keep the faith, I do think the gun will straighten itself out with more rounds through it..That gun came with two magazines also, test out the other magazine...

[at_liberty]

Either the cartridges or the recoil spring are my ideas. What ammo exactly? Please tell me they aren't reloads.. get some calipers and measure the overal length (OAL).

My own PM40 in its current state is particular about the nose of the bullet. It would not accept the recoil assy upgrade provided. It runs okay on Hornady XTP, Critical Defense, or FMJ TC reloads. Boxed ammo and reloads are 1.135 nominal OAL.

If it were mine, it would go back to Kahr (FTF), asking for a new pistol under a lemon claim.

[predestyned]

i'm thinking recoil spring. i just went through a nightmare with my pm9. it failed to feed every round with new spring assy. they sent me.i
think they have some real dipshits working at kahr who seem to have gotten alot of recoil spring assy. mismatched on several guns.regardless of the "break in period", it should not "ftf" so much. the spring that they sent me was absolutely not made for a pm9. after i sent gun back they seem to have everything straightened out. but i hear ya with the trust issue. i dont think i can ever with good conscious make this "pm9" my main carry. even though it has been flawless since being returned.

kinda feels like a cheating lover. you can never truely trust her again.

[burkebill]

The ammunition I was using in both my Springfield XDM 40 and then in my Kahr 40 is 50rds - 40 S&W Fiocchi 170gr. FMJ Ammo I bought this because it was $13 a box of 50 worked great in the XDM 40. Now to be fair my instructor said these loads are pretty hot but should work ok. These were not reloads brand new. I also tried my carry loads with no difference Federal Premium LE 165 grain HST. The cartridge goes about 3/4 chamber and stops. All it takes is a pop with your hand on the back of the slide and it’s good to go. It just seems as though the springs just is not strong enough to bring the cartridge to full battery. First pistol I have ever owned that won’t shot out of the box let alone when you include the high cost of this pistol.

Do you think there really made in China Just kidding. I can never recommend Kahr to anyone.

Believe me I understand the 200 round break in but ftf on every round on this expensive firearm. I now believe I would buy a Springfield compact XD 40 and been done with it. I will try again with different ammunition like Winchester Full metal jacket and see if that helps worse case I can use this pistol as an example of what not to buy. I will send a copy of this email to Kahr as well.

Bill Burke..

[burkebill]

The ammunition I was using in both my Springfield XDM 40 and then in my Kahr 40 is 50rds - 40 S&W Fiocchi 170gr. FMJ Ammo I bought this because it was $13 a box of 50 worked great in the XDM 40. Now to be fair my instructor said these loads are pretty hot but should work ok. These were not reloads brand new. I also tried my carry loads with no difference Federal Premium LE 165 grain HST. The cartridge goes about 3/4 chamber and stops. All it takes is a pop with your hand on the back of the slide and it’s good to go. It just seems as though the springs just is not strong enough to bring the cartridge to full battery. First pistol I have ever owned that won’t shot out of the box let alone when you include the high cost of this pistol.

Do you think there really made in China Just kidding. I can never recommend Kahr to anyone.

Believe me I understand the 200 round break in but ftf on every round on this expensive firearm. I now believe I would buy a Springfield compact XD 40 and been done with it. I will try again with different ammunition like Winchester Full metal jacket and see if that helps worse case I can use this pistol as an example of what not to buy. I will send a copy of this email to Kahr as well.

Bill Burke..:mad:

[jocko]

Not to offend here either, but if I had a gun that I had lost faith in, I would peddle it.Don't care who makes it. I have had Para's. Kel tec that I lost faith in and felt no remorse in peddling them and moving on. Taking a beating every time also but that is the nature of the beast. especially if I owned a PM9 or any PM kahr, as you basically bought it for one reason for defense and personal carry. If it was a big smith or sig or 1911 and was your range and play gun, that is a different story.But that being said. once I got my PM kahrs running right, I would have no reason not to trust them. Any flawless gun can malfunction on the very next round. I had some start up issues with my P380 but between kahr and I, that little gun ir running super and I now trust it. I would not hesitate to stick it in my pocket and not trust that it would go bang when needed.
Many people change vehicle models for reasons of displeasure . there are lots of good other mfg-ers out there making good guns, but don't blind youself into thinking that so and so makers don't have issues. THEY DO. Ruger super company, recall of the SR9 and total recall and massive internal changes in the 380 LCP. I wouldn't have given u a nickel for the early model lcp but mine after the recall has been flawless. I trust it as much as any gun I own to go bang when needed.
as I get older in life, I more realize that things sometimes just don't work out the way we want. One can loose alot of sleep over it, get totally frustrated, cuss the product,(I've done all 3) but I have in my later years just decided it is not worth it and to just move on. I loved my Para carry 9 but 3 times back to no success, just told me to get away from it. I know Bawanna owns and shoots Para's and love his. Todd Jarrett does a pretty nice job with Para's also My Para and me just never mated up I guess.And damn I loved thier Carry 9 with that LDA trigger system.. To me there is no embarrassment in buying a gun either that doesn't work right and one looses faith in it for what it was bought for. Peddle it, for if you truly are going to carry it and worry about whether it will do it's job if needed, then that worry and frustration part can be taken care of very easy. Just my 2 cents on this matter..

[jocko]

BURKEBILL; PM sent...

[Bawanna]

The ammunition I was using in both my Springfield XDM 40 and then in my Kahr 40 is 50rds - 40 S&W Fiocchi 170gr. FMJ Ammo I bought this because it was $13 a box of 50 worked great in the XDM 40. Now to be fair my instructor said these loads are pretty hot but should work ok. These were not reloads brand new. I also tried my carry loads with no difference Federal Premium LE 165 grain HST. The cartridge goes about 3/4 chamber and stops. All it takes is a pop with your hand on the back of the slide and it’s good to go. It just seems as though the springs just is not strong enough to bring the cartridge to full battery. First pistol I have ever owned that won’t shot out of the box let alone when you include the high cost of this pistol.

Do you think there really made in China Just kidding. I can never recommend Kahr to anyone.

Believe me I understand the 200 round break in but ftf on every round on this expensive firearm. I now believe I would buy a Springfield compact XD 40 and been done with it. I will try again with different ammunition like Winchester Full metal jacket and see if that helps worse case I can use this pistol as an example of what not to buy. I will send a copy of this email to Kahr as well.

Bill Burke..:mad:

What you describe sounds exactly like what my K40 did new. It just wouldn't quite go into battery. Had to tap the back of the slide. Sometimes I could tell it still wasn't all the way home but close enough to fire which is not good either. Basically firing out of battery.
I sent it back and they said the barrel was peening, the barrel, slide fit was apparently not correct. They replaced the whole top end, new barrel and slide and there have been no issues since. Sure sounds familiar.
Additional rounds fired would not help cure this they told me so not sure what I'd do in your case at this point. Try another 50 or send it in. I hate to see you give up on it but if your confidence is out the window, a separation might be the best route. I'd still send it in to get checked out, I might be the guy that ends up with it and would like it to work ya know?

[O'Dell]

As much as I like my Kahrs, I have to agree with Jocko. If you've lost confidence in the pistol, you won't carry it, and that makes it useless. With my experience with Kahr and their superb CS, I might give them one more chance to make it right, but that would be it.

I have sold a few, fortunately very few, guns that didn't work as they should, and never looked back. Of my eight active pistols only two have ever given a problem. My XD45 had two FTFeeds early, but I dismissed that as break in. It hasn't happened since. My 30 year old SIG didn't like HP's, which was OK, because it was never designed to shoot them. I found one that it likes.

However, as much as I like these pistols, if one became problematic, and I couldn't discover a quick solution, it would be gone in a heartbeat.

[WMD]

I personally think the guns needs more rounds through it. I assume you have read in the kahr tech section the thread of PROPPER PREPPING OF YUR NEW KAHR. there are some tips that can help. Your gun is very tight yet, a good indication of that is the failure to go into full battery. Break in with fmj ammo if you can, alot cheaper to test the gun out to, once it is reliable, then go to defense stuff. Give it some more time before pitching it in the safe. The extractor thing is not good but that was a kahr assembly issue, not a design fault. Not alibying for kahr, just stating a fact. Kahr extractors are the best in the business. Keep the faith, I do think the gun will straighten itself out with more rounds through it..That gun came with two magazines also, test out the other magazine...

Jocko,

Kahr extractors come out if you are hand loading the first round in the chamber then letting the slide go in to battery with the extractor going over the rim of the shell.

They do not work like that. Believe me, I learned the hard way with my PM9.

Kahr told me the gun was designed for the round to be fed up thorugh the bottom of the extractor, not the extractor riding over the rim of the cartiridge. They said if you hand load the first round guess what happens.... the extractor might pop out.

Could this have been your extractor problem?

[WMD]

As much as I like my Kahrs, I have to agree with Jocko. If you've lost confidence in the pistol, you won't carry it, and that makes it useless. With my experience with Kahr and their superb CS, I might give them one more chance to make it right, but that would be it.

I have sold a few, fortunately very few, guns that didn't work as they should, and never looked back. Of my eight active pistols only two have ever given a problem. My XD45 had two FTFeeds early, but I dismissed that as break in. It hasn't happened since. My 30 year old SIG didn't like HP's, which was OK, because it was never designed to shoot them. I found one that it likes.

However, as much as I like these pistols, if one became problematic, and I couldn't discover a quick solution, it would be gone in a heartbeat.

I agree with O'dell and Jocko, sell if no confidence. That being said however, give Kahr another shot at the fix. Shouldn't cost you anything so you got nothing to lose. A good running Kahr is a blessing from heaven! :D I have had issues (as mentioned in previous email) with my PM9. Kahr has always taken care of me.


Do not give up yet.

Just my .02

[burkebill]

I did receive an e-mail from Kahr with a request for more information with this problem. This is my reply.

Hello Bob:


As you can probably tell I am not happy I had my choice of any pistol I wanted.

I chose the Kahr PM 40 because of size and caliber, I own a Springfield XDM 40 and love it but, it’s a bit big for summer carry. It has never failed in any way period.

I really thought you get what you pay for not true with my Kahr.
I had the extractor fall out before it was ever shot sent it in and had it back in five days great service.

I took a tactical hand gun class and used my XDM fired 300 rounds no problems.
At the end of the class my instructor and I decided to fire the Kahr PM 40 using the same ammunition used in my XDM I fired a total of 50 rounds all of them fail to feed to full battery. Almost but not quite.

I even had the instructor fire it same thing used a Kung Foo Grip. I was embarrassed we then used Federal LE 165 grain HST no go same thing. Yes I know about the 200 round break in but, every round.

Yes the other guys taking the class laughed and said dump it Kahrs are junk. My instructor only said that’s Kahrs.

I spent so much money on this that I have no choice but to make it work. I bought 4 custom holsters a crimson trace laser, costs adds up.

Even if I get it working can I trust it for my primary carry pistol? Not sure, I have read many many posts on the internet kahr sites and this is a big problem with Kahrs.
Wolf gun springs have a heaver recoil spring that seems to help a lot may try that.

Truthfully had I known then what I know now I would have bought a Springfield compact.

The ammunition I used in the Kahr was 40 S&W Fiocchi 170gr. FMJ Ammo and the Federal premium law enforcement HST 165 grain

I will try again with different ammunition in the next few weeks as I’m going fishing for two weeks starting this weekend and will shoot it again while fishing and let you know what I find.

William F. Burke
burke.bill@gmail.com
cell 218-343-6926

[burkebill]

I spoke to Bob Holmes
Director, Customer Service and Consumer Sales
Kahr Arms / Auto-Ordnanc

We had a very long and fruitful conversation with regard to my fail to feed problems. This pistol sat on the shelf of Gander Mt for 3 years or more according to the serial Number. Could very well have week springs from sitting. Bob was top of the line great to talk too. He wants this pistol back and I am sending this directly too him and he will personally make sure this problem is solved.

How can you ask for more. He aggress that this pistol should not fail to go to battery every time. He has restored my confidence in Kahr Firearms. No where have I had such great service from any company period. I am sure I will be happy when he is done. And thanks Jocko for setting me stright in your PM.

[Bawanna]

I spoke to Bob Holmes
Director, Customer Service and Consumer Sales
Kahr Arms / Auto-Ordnanc

We had a very long and fruitful conversation with regard to my fail to feed problems. This pistol sat on the shelf of Gander Mt for 3 years or more according to the serial Number. Could very well have week springs from sitting. Bob was top of the line great to talk too. He wants this pistol back and I am sending this directly too him and he will personally make sure this problem is solved.

How can you ask for more. He aggress that this pistol should not fail to go to battery every time. He has restored my confidence in Kahr Firearms. No where have I had such great service from any company period. I am sure I will be happy when he is done. And thanks Jocko for setting me stright in your PM.


Well maybe Bob Holmes is our new go to guy at Kahr and we can call him our new best friend. I'm thrilled that your confidence is restored and I hope that Bob makes that thing run like a sewing machine. I think given the chance they will make it right. Just sometimes takes a little patience to get things right.

[burkebill]

Here is my update

Sorry I could not update earlier but I was fishing for two weeks no internet.
Got the pistol back in less than one week, they went through it top to bottom new springs ect. My son brought it up to me to fire. Put 50 rounds through it. Here is what I found! It is now what it’s supposed be I had four FTF not many this is what I expected during break-in. also the slide locked open while the mag was still pretty much full not sure about that but If anyone has any ideas that would be helpful. Other than that I think the pistol just needs to be broken in. Kahr service is truly second to nun.

[at_liberty]

Here is my update

<>the slide locked open while the mag was still pretty much full not sure about that but If anyone has any ideas that would be helpful. Other than that I think the pistol just needs to be broken in. Kahr service is truly second to nun.

If you are sure your thumb is not hitting the slide lock, then you need to send the gun back again. There is no excuse, and a premature slide lock could cost you your life.

When I have FTF, the round usually measures too long. Save those rounds and check them later.

[kahrfreak]

Something I discovered with my Kahrs...they are *very* sensitive to how the magazine is loaded. I've had one FTF in about 2000 rounds split evenly between my CW9 and PM9. When the FTF happened during break-in, I discovered that if the cartridge is not seated fully against the side of the magazine, there is a high likelihood that it won't feed correctly. I was able to re-create the situation at the range. Now, when I load my magazines, I tap them against the palm of my hand to ensure the cartridges are seated against the slide.

Dunno if this applied to the 40-cal models, but it's certainly something to look into.

[jeepster09]

All my Kahrs have had this same issue of failing to feed, especially after a new mag was put in. Now I have no "Kahr's in my garage".....my local dealer said this is common complaint with Kahr due to the configuration of slide and magazine in order to make smallness of gun. I had a 9, a 40 and a 45PM.
I love my Para Ordnances.:yo: