Kahr trigger control

[marcinstl]

last time I was at the range I ran into a "Bullseye shooter" who explained trigger control. "get your sights lined up on the target and take the slack out of the trigger, then very slowly begin applying pressure to the trigger as you count to yourself. 1,2,3,4,5Bang. slow trigger pull prevents jerking the shot and the "surprise break" will prevent blink/flinch". well, I've shot this way and it works. with the smooth, DA revolver style trigger on a Kahr, maybe count all the way to 6 before it goes bang? now what does any of that have to do with defensive shooting? nothing.
defensive shooting (giddyup! bangbang!) requires a smooth but rapid, positive pull of the trigger and no counting, just pull-bang. pull, bang, reset, pull, bang, etc. the problem is getting the shot off fast(NOW!) without jerking the gun off target.
in a danger situation, you go for your gun, get a grip on it and bring it out of the holster, coming on target your finger goes on the trigger and you get off shot number one. your fear and reaction to the threat is driving this situation. did you get a perfect grip? no. did your finger go to that perfect place on the trigger? no. did the bullet hit the paper plate target at 10'? maybe, maybe not. if the paper plate was in the center of a silhouette target, did you get anything on the paper? hopefully.
just some things to think about, things to practice.
appreciate any and all comments, tips, video links. thanks.

[CPTKILLER]

Practice and practice some more!

[JohnR]

For SD, one round won't cut it. Expect it to take 2-3 rounds for the BG to give up. I've read of too many drug crazed thugs who didn't even realize they'd been hit. So my plan is double tap as fast as I can, assess, repeat as needed.

[Bill K]

In my limited experience... Attitude/mindset [I believe most who CC will have this]. Swift smooth clear, combat grip and draw [More important in my opinion to practice than live fire. You can, having practiced, get a near perfect grip even under the pressure of a SD situation.]. Point and shoot [More important, again in my opinion, to practice than sight shooting because of a likely short distance.]. Try to be the first to call 911 with the bare facts.

Yes, a whole bunch of other stuff which hopefully others will add.

[jocko]

Ihave read in the past of shooting incidents where the cop had o clue how many times he shot even, nor did he have any real clue as to whgat his site method was. I am not saying Pracxtice is not good, for certainly has its merits to, U do the best with ur practice routine and hope that if SHTF that you can produce some sort of the sklls thatu trained for. Targets don't shoot back as we well know. Best scenario is that the scenario never happens..

[marcinstl]

"Try to be the first to call 911 with the bare facts." you were just shooting and are probably almost deaf. "Hello, 911, I'm deaf, there's somebody on the ground bleeding at (give location), send police and ambulance". hang up. call lawyer.

from what I can figure out, the guy who gets off the first shot is in good position to be the winner.
ok, here's a favorite of mine-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tca3wZ7z4m8

[TheLastDaze]

I wouldnt count and shoot, if you are going to do it I wouldnt do it over 10% of my session, you dont want to develop bad habits... and that seems like a really bad one...
I stopped practicing "double taps" (long avenue of discussion here), as I started devolping bad habits,yeah I still do various scenarios but really nothing "exclusive"..

[Bill K]

"Try to be the first to call 911 with the bare facts." you were just shooting and are probably almost deaf. "Hello, 911, I'm deaf, there's somebody on the ground bleeding at (give location), send police and ambulance". hang up. call lawyer.
...

Again, just from my limited experience...

The gun fire may sound to you no louder than popcorn in a micro wave, not at all like it sounds when you forgot to put your ears on at the range. The adrenaline and loss of fine motor skills may not hit you until after the action stops. Just dialing 911 can be a challenge.

I believe you should state that you were attacked or about to be attacked or whatever the situation was in broad terms. You were about to be (or was) shot or stabbed or clubbed and fearing for your life fought back. Asking that police and ambulance be sent as you say is in my opinion good advise but I don't believe hanging up and calling your lawyer is the smart thing to do at that point.

[marcinstl]

talk to the lawyer that you will be using to defend you. (lawyer is just as important as ammo, always have some on hand). there's lawyers on youtube video doing a generalized, "what to do". you need a lawyer in your area that knows exactly what to do and plays golf with the judges. (justice is on a sliding scale of what you can afford and who you know).
anything you say, starting with "hello" to the 911 operator, can and will be used against you in a court of law (or the newspaper). when the cops show up, your gun is in the holster(unless the threat still exists) and your deaf, you need to go to a doc and get checked out, you need to talk to your lawyer, other than identifying yourself, you have no comments, you and your lawyer will give a full account of the situation within 24 hours. you need a doc, etc. the police and the prosecutor are not your friends and truth and logic have nothing to do with any of this. expect to get cuffed, even though you need a doc. they can't refuse you medical help can they? good luck.

[SlowBurn]

We're getting off subject here with legal advice. Not a bad idea to talk to a lawyer. Which lawyer? One who practices in your area. Ignore all the you tube videos, and talk to your cop friends to find out who THEY would use if they were in trouble. Then buy whatever the minimum consult time is and discuss do's and don'ts in a self defense shooting with somebody who really knows. If, after meeting face to face you agree with your cop friends that this is the one, 1) you've gotten some good advice, 2) you've made a useful connection, and 3) you have contact information handy in the unlikely event you need it. Well worth whatever you've spent.

Back on topic, I'm not a good shot, but I've been surprised at how accurate I can be at a good distance with the little P380 using a smooth slow squeeze while concentrating on the laser dot, or on the front sight if outside in bright daylight. I credit the trigger which is pure butter. I agree the technique is not likely to be used in a real situation, but it is satisfying, and you can impress your friends.

[bob98366]

slow trigger pull prevents jerking the shot and the "surprise break" will prevent blink/flinch". .

+1 Smooth trigger pull/press plus looking at the front sight instead of the target really improved my accuracy. I started out dry fire practicing a slow trigger pull over 1 second. After getting that down without moving the rest of my fingers, hand or pistol, I decreased the time to 1/4 second but still smooth and deliberate. It takes mindful practice to make it automatic. Now if I don't get 3" groups rapid fire at 7 yds I'm pissed and go back to practicing the fundamentals (ala Vince Lombardi's "Gentlemen, this is a football."). Once you get accuracy figured out, then work on movement, one hand firing, etc. There's no point in jerking off quick shots if they miss the target.

[JohnR]

I've shot without ear protection, and I was almost deaf for a minute or two after, and the ringing stayed for an hour or so.

[forestranger]

I only use slow pull when testing for accuracy AND when chronographing. Don't want to have buy a third one!:o

[Planedude]

The method of trigger control in the first post is indeed valid. If practiced enough, nice, comfy and slow, you would develop a good muscle memory at the trigger finger. That is the only point, but what you have done slow a thousand times, you can do fast six times...

When I started pocket carrying an S&W 642 J frame, with a 12# trigger pull that's how I learned to master it. Before I ever took the gun to the range I practiced presenting from the holster, trigger control and reloads from a speed strip at home. Loading five pieces of spent .38 brass and having five snap caps on the speed strip, I would do the drill ten times. Six would be slow and deliberant, paying close attention to my trigger pull. Two would be modestly fast and the last two at full speed. I have become very comfortable with the process now and I know I can draw and hit the target with safety and decent speed. The very first five rounds I ever shot from the little 642 where headshots on a B-27 at seven yards drawing from the pocket with moderate speed. This yielded a five shot group, centered around the "nose", that could be covered with the palm of my hand.

Good enough for me...


Slow and steady is the foundation of speedy and accurate. Practice, practice and practice. Always remember, dry fire at home counts (just be safe!!).

[muggsy]

When I was learning I was taught to only press the trigger when the sights were aligned. Bullseye shooting isn't combat shooting. The target doesn't shoot back.

[bob98366]

Slow and steady is the foundation of speedy and accurate.

+1 Exactly.

[HSparrow]

Ihave read in the past of shooting incidents where the cop had o clue how many times he shot even, nor did he have any real clue as to whgat his site method was. I am not saying Pracxtice is not good, for certainly has its merits to, U do the best with ur practice routine and hope that if SHTF that you can produce some sort of the sklls thatu trained for. Targets don't shoot back as we well know. Best scenario is that the scenario never happens..

The majority of Officers do not get the range time on the job they should. The typical Officer maybe gets to the range 2-3 times a year unless they pay to use a private range . The FEDs generally receive much more range time however the majority are not the experts we see on the TV. I was at a range where there were bullet skid marks in the ceiling walls and floors. Also was at a range where an Officer was taken out by Ambulance as he shot himself in the foot during Quals. I generally shoot 2-3 times a month and can generally keep the rounds in the bull area at 20 yds with my K40 or CM40. Practice, practice, practice. As far as a quick draw from a concealed carry speed is not the determining factor, planning, and the command of your concealed pistol will keep you out of trouble.

[downtownv]

I bought mine (2) because of their reputation for slim,compact and high reliability.

[marcinstl]

"As far as a quick draw from a concealed carry speed is not the determining factor, planning, and the command of your concealed pistol will keep you out of trouble."

nobody wants to be surprised and have to go for a gun in a panic. planning can help get past some of the surprise. a quick draw is even quicker if the shooter was ready to go and already had a grip on the gun. see that old guy walking across the Walmart parking lot, notice his hand in his pants pocket or in his "man bag"(it's not a purse!), wonder if muggers are smart enough to look for that? (if I see some old lady with her hand stuck in a shoulder bag, first thing that comes to mind is J-frame). (if Isee anybody wandering around lost in texting, I'm thinking, Victim!)

[Big bird]

I was a police officer for many years and Marcinstl is right on point, very good advice. On the original topic, I still struggle with finger control on my CM45, always shooting slightly to the right (Left handed). Funny thing, I'm right on target with my Glock and Colt - go figure.

[muggsy]

Learn to point shoot. In a SHTF situation if you take the time to find the sights it may be the last thing you ever do. Start practicing at no more than five feet. Draw, rotate and fire. Practice until you can keep all of your shots center mass out to about 25 feet. Then you'll be good to go.

[hardluk1]

That's words to live by. I practice point shooting more than any other kind. Place 8 rounds in a shoe box sized area as not that hard to be proficient at even out to 10 yards. I also try to be reasonably fast with a trigger pull just smooth trigger pull , slow is for shooting groups.

[jocko]

for once muggsy makes some sense, course Ol jocko told him exactly how to phrse it, s it makes him look BRITE, which realy he is not.. Just sayin

[marshal kane]

I've shot without ear protection, and I was almost deaf for a minute or two after, and the ringing stayed for an hour or so.
I've shot without ear protection too, mistakenly thinking that I should harden myself in the event I was ever involved in a shootout. Not only a mistake but a BIG mistake since I've never been involved in a shootout (yet) so I urge any of you who are contemplating this approach to forget it and wear your eyes and hearing protector. By the time I started taking my own advice, my hearing was permanently damaged. I suffer from tinnitus now and when things are quiet, I hear a ringing in my ears that will never go away. Take my advice, wear your hearing protector and be happy you can listen to silence.

[marshal kane]

Learn to point shoot. In a SHTF situation if you take the time to find the sights it may be the last thing you ever do. Start practicing at no more than five feet. Draw, rotate and fire. Practice until you can keep all of your shots center mass out to about 25 feet. Then you'll be good to go.
Ditto that! I'm an ex-BE competitor and there is a world of difference between shooting for accuracy and shooting to stay alive. You DO NOT shoot BE style when the SHTF unless your assailant if 25 yards out in the open and you are behind a barricade!