Has anyone had a botched repair job from Kahr service?

[diablo53]

I sent my PM9 in for repairs due to the barrel peening. I was sent back with a new slide and barrel..and some really nasty tooling/grinding done to the interior of the frame. It looks like they modified the old frame to fit the new slide, but left it looking like total crap. Scratches/sanding marks inside the handle were so rough that the magazine has wear marks that none of my other 4 mags have. Gun was received by Kahr Monday night, and received by me last night. I applaud Kahr for the turnaround but boo them for the workmanship.

I have contacted Kahr about the issue and I am waiting for an RMA and shipping label to send it back to them for frame replacement or whatever they can do to clean up the tooling marks


UPDATE: Kahr replaced my pm9 with a brand new
retail pistol. Complete with case and 3 mags. They even threw in an extra 7rd mag for a total of 4.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/diablo53/F5F982B6-A123-4C3F-AE8F-CA179FA63D2C.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/diablo53/media/F5F982B6-A123-4C3F-AE8F-CA179FA63D2C.jpg.html)

[Bawanna]

Keep us posted. This is kind of a new one on me. I can't think of any reason they would have to butcher the frame for a new slide. Nothing really changes on the lower end.

[diablo53]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/diablo53/magwell2.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/diablo53/media/magwell2.jpg.html)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/diablo53/magwell1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/diablo53/frame4.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/diablo53/frame2.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/diablo53/frame1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/diablo53/frame3.jpg

[berettabone]

Kind of hard to believe........................that thing looks like a train wreck.......................

[diablo53]

Kind of hard to believe........................that thing looks like a train wreck.......................

THANK YOU! I was in such disbelief that I actually thought I was over reacting. I even had to compare it to pictures I have of the gun b4 I sent it off to make sure that it came back with the same frame.

[muggsy]

It wasn't necessary to take pictures to insure that it came backwith the same frame. If the frame was replaced the gun would have a different serial number, been returned to you through your local FFL and you would have had to go through another NIC background check. That's a federal law and Kahr isn't about to violate it.

[gb6491]

Keep us posted. This is kind of a new one on me. I can't think of any reason they would have to butcher the frame for a new slide. Nothing really changes on the lower end.
"Butcher" is an apt description Bawanna.
FWIW, I think the cut in the red outlined box above the trigger (which appears to have took a hit in the process) was done to accommodate the new barrel. It seems to me they've made a change to a wider lug at some point in production.
http://i62.tinypic.com/2e1t4r6.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2re0bw5.jpg
Perhaps the magwell damage came from a fixture used to hold the frame while they were making the clearance cut for the lug.
Regards,
Greg

[SlowBurn]

Wow. Mistakes happen and damage can occur in the repair process like anything else, but to send it back to you like that? Inexcusable. I would be disappointed if whoever did that kept his job.

[timboy]

Ughh that's pretty ugly,likley functional and just a cosmetic eyesore,but I know I would not be happy either,hopefully they make it right for you.
Making it function and making it right are not always the same thing.

[ppsnatcher]

I recently bought a set of wood grips from them. The set I was sent had a bit of tear-out that had been really poorly glued back in place. I contacted them and explained my disappointment and they assured me they would email a shipping label. I have emailed them since and never got a label or response. F those guys, even if they sent me a return label I don't trust them not to f up my order again.

Anybody know where to order parts other than their website?

[ReManG]

WOW, that is horrible work, even if it is functional.... I mean if you had sent the pistol to them in that condition and stated you had fixed a problem, they would deny you any kind of warranty work, even on the sights as you had modified the pistol.... but the veil of "professionalism" that being a company entails can go and return something to you with this kind of workmanship?? I dunno if I would ever trust Kahr either with that kind of work.... I did see a TP9 in an LGS that had the butt belt sanded with 80-100 grit and sent out the door like that and wrote it up here (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?21556-TP-9-frame-quality-issues-with-magazine-well)....But I did not have to (and did not) buy that pistol if I did not like the work....

The polymer frame is mostly cost of the tooling, there is more than likely less than $20 of energy and materials in casting one of those frames, the tooling is expensive, but the more you make, the cheaper it gets until mold replacement, I am sure there is some regulatory costs as well... The thing is, you got an RMA, and now another, so Kahr has probably given $100+ to FEDEX or UPS for this, plus they had to pay the polymer butcher at least 6 or 7 minutes of his time to do this damage, at least $5 labor, so HOW MUCH does a new frame for them REALLY cost? If it is not at least double the cost of Shipping and Labor of $105 (estimated) they are risking their REPUTATION in this day and age with the Forums allowing stuff like this to persist WAAAAAAY longer than one angry customer can do on their own.

I have to say, the supervisor/QA in customer service should be looking for new job if this is what they ship back to a customer, cant really blame the worker unless they are one and the same as QA, but then whats the point of having QA??? They need to make this right, damaging a customers product can (and obviously does) happen, I hope they make it right. If you would, let us know either way here on KahrTalk. Thanks for this information and the detailed pictures. Just incredible that someone thought this was "good to go" out the door.

It also tells me that Kahr does not even like to take out the trigger cross pin, they left the whole assembly in place and you can see the divot they took out of your trigger bar was from lowering a running end mill too deeply...which draws into the scheme of how good is their repair jig due to this and the damage in the mag well. The part I cannot figure is the damage near the cam, what were they doing back there that involves fitting a new barrel? Looks to me like someone wire wheeled the frame instead of hitting it on a buffer....

[jocko]

it sounds like u have an old style blunt nose PM9 THE BEST MADE imo). AND MAYBE UR TEXT ANSWERED A QUESTION THA Ti POSTED A FEW DAYS AGO. iT LOOKS LIKE ACCORDING TO gb PHOTO THAT THE BARREL UG HAS BEEN CHANTGE DON THE CW SERIES, NOT SURE IF THEY DID THE SAME TO THE pm SERIES BUT kahr has stated that frame modifications hav eto be done to fit a new style slide and barrel on an old style frame. My question is , have u fired the gun to see if it is reliable???That mag well crap IMO I would not even worry about, some of trhe other areas, are questionable..Just sayin

[ReManG]

BUT kahr has stated that frame modifications hav eto be done to fit a new style slide and barrel on an old style frame.

If you used a weedeater for haircutting would that be considered a modification of your hair style? I am comparing that weed eater for hair cutting to the workmanship (overall) on this repair... I mean it was a PM9 too, not that I would have expected them to do worse work on a CM series, but this was an expensive pistol at one point... who would pay someone else for work like this??? End-of-the-world-need-my-pistol-to-work situation, not a problem for this sort of workmanship if it gets you up and running, but Kahr touts their QUALITY. No degree needed here to determine what level of quality was utilized in this repair trip... AND IT GOT OUT THE DOOR...I sincerely hope they make this right for you OP... and you continue to participate in this forum....

I saw your other post on the mods, and yup, it looks like this answered your question about the differences between uppers Jocko... The next question is why? Do the MIM slide stops break? Kahr specifically states their slide stop pins (non MIM) are made from a proprietary steel for unmatched strength and toughness on their website, is this an endurance issue, or what?

OP, does your new barrel have the polygonal rifling, or is it a C series barrel with regular cut rifling???

[ReManG]

It wasn't necessary to take pictures to insure that it came backwith the same frame.

It will be my standard operating procedure after this post with ANY manufacturer to take pre photos prior to sending them in for service. This kind of stinks and I know they will follow the law for frame replacement, but in this case, it looks like they were doing a bang up job to AVOID replacing the frame for whatever reason... Where the line of demarcation is for "we went too far, replace that frame" is waaaay beyond where I would have thought it to be in this post...

[TheLastDaze]

if this is true then its no wonder they have so many problems with their guns...........

fire the lot of them I tell ya before its to late....

in hindsight there is no way this came from a gun MANUFACTURER I can machine parts WAY better than that with half the tools they use, and fwiw I have and have done plenty...........

[jocko]

not sure whatur referring to the MIM slide stop has no issues. all P series kahrs have polygonal rifling, either one is interchangeable. I would like to know why kahr hacked some areas on ur frame. If it wa sto fit a new slide kand barrel tothe frame, then surely they can do better work. The fact that u took photos before and after should kill any chances that they cold say well that is the way we got it. U did good there. I have no clue what kahr will do for you. Hopefully u are dealign with Jay at Kahr, he seemsto be OK. Keep us posted

[AH.74]

There is no way I would accept that.

I would be calling them back and telling them to take that frame back and issue you a new one. No ifs, ands or buts. I can't believe they sent it back to you like that.

Please keep us informed. That is extremely disappointing to see.

[muggsy]

I believe that Kahr will replace the frame if it's necessary without making a call. If so, you'll have what the BATF considers a new gun. There's nothing wrong with taking pictures of a gun before you send it in, but not for the reason that you mentioned. From my experience Kahr bends over backwards to keep their customers happy. Of course, I might just have a little more pull than most of you lugs being named Muggsy. Jocko has had similar results with Kahr Service. We refer to him as "Pretty Boy" Jocko. Bawanna goes by, "Baby Face". :)

[diablo53]

Just to be clear, the pictures I took prior to sending the gun in were not to document the condition of the gun, but to document that I owned THAT gun for insurance purposes.

I'm not so worried about how the gun functions- I don't doubt that it runs fine in the condition they sent it back to me. However, the gun looked good in and out when it went in, I expect no less upon return. No one wants to take their nice clean car to the dealer for repairs and get it back looking worse than it went in!!!

I sent the gun to Kahr on saturday 9/27, and it was received by them on monday 9/29. They performed work and I received it back on thursday 10/2. I emailed customer service the same pictures I posted here on friday 10/3 and within 30 minutes had an email back to submit the online rma form. A few hours later I had a new RMA number and a shipping label. Gun was dropped off at fedex on saturday 10/4 and received by Kahr 10/6. Request for work to be done this time was to refinish/refurbish or replace the frame in order to obtain a factory finish. I'll post updates of my communications with customer service if any, and let you all know how this plays out.

I'm not here to bash Kahr products or their customer service or repair process. I just wanted to know if this was normal to expect from them. Frankly I was saddened by the aesthetics of the piece when I got it back, and I just want it made right.

[shlike]

Just to be clear, the pictures I took prior to sending the gun in were not to document the condition of the gun, but to document that I owned THAT gun for insurance purposes.

I'm not so worried about how the gun functions- I don't doubt that it runs fine in the condition they sent it back to me. However, the gun looked good in and out when it went in, I expect no less upon return. No one wants to take their nice clean car to the dealer for repairs and get it back looking worse than it went in!!!

I sent the gun to Kahr on saturday 9/27, and it was received by them on monday 9/29. They performed work and I received it back on thursday 10/2. I emailed customer service the same pictures I posted here on friday 10/3 and within 30 minutes had an email back to submit the online rma form. A few hours later I had a new RMA number and a shipping label. Gun was dropped off at fedex on saturday 10/4 and received by Kahr 10/6. Request for work to be done this time was to refinish/refurbish or replace the frame in order to obtain a factory finish. I'll post updates of my communications with customer service if any, and let you all know how this plays out.

I'm not here to bash Kahr products or their customer service or repair process. I just wanted to know if this was normal to expect from them. Frankly I was saddened by the aesthetics of the piece when I got it back, and I just want it made right.

If it were me, I might be inclined to send those photos and explanation of what happened in an e-mail directly to Justin Moon. I can't imagine he would tolerate that kind of workmanship in his company. I have found in the past in other areas that going directly to the top often yields quick and very satisfying results.

[TheLastDaze]

Gun was dropped off at fedex on saturday 10/4 and received by Kahr 10/6. Request for work to be done this time was to refinish/refurbish or replace the frame in order to obtain a factory finish. I'll post updates of my communications with customer service if any, and let you all know how this plays out.
I'm not here to bash Kahr products or their customer service or repair process. I just wanted to know if this was normal to expect from them. Frankly I was saddened by the aesthetics of the piece when I got it back, and I just want it made right.
I for one am APPALLED and quite frankly taken back that they would dare ask you to pay return shipping !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is absolutely ridiculous !!!!! Especially by the shade tree work they've done to your gun, and if it is the older (better) version as stated earlier, its irreplaceable......


If it were me, I might be inclined to send those photos and explanation of what happened in an e-mail directly to Justin Moon. I can't imagine he would tolerate that kind of workmanship in his company. I have found in the past in other areas that going directly to the top often yields quick and very satisfying results.
You and I both..... When I joined this forum I thought I read here somewhere Kahrs CS Dept. is getting better etc, or they were going to cull the herd of the whack jobs in the bunch, obviously wherever I read it its merely heresy...

Now, I'm not a huge Kahr fan, I love my PM9 no doubt about that and have my eye on other kahr products make no mistake, but personally from unbiased standing I think their company needs some serious work and sending the email to the man isn't a bad idea at all but then again failures stem from the head, business management 101..... just sayin

[ReManG]

Just to be clear, the pictures I took prior to sending the gun in were not to document the condition of the gun, but to document that I owned THAT gun for insurance purposes.

That is just good luck and timing then, but thanks to this, I have personally changed my thoughts about service calls. In this day and age, digital photography is cheap and available, so a few minutes of time can refute something I cannot prove otherwise. The plus is, I will have it for insurance, stolen items, etc so your situation has provided me motivation.

I'm not so worried about how the gun functions- I don't doubt that it runs fine in the condition they sent it back to me. However, the gun looked good in and out when it went in, I expect no less upon return. No one wants to take their nice clean car to the dealer for repairs and get it back looking worse than it went in!!!

YUP, wholeheartedly agree...

I sent the gun to Kahr on saturday 9/27, and it was received by them on monday 9/29. They performed work and I received it back on thursday 10/2. I emailed customer service the same pictures I posted here on friday 10/3 and within 30 minutes had an email back to submit the online rma form. A few hours later I had a new RMA number and a shipping label. Gun was dropped off at fedex on saturday 10/4 and received by Kahr 10/6. Request for work to be done this time was to refinish/refurbish or replace the frame in order to obtain a factory finish. I'll post updates of my communications with customer service if any, and let you all know how this plays out.

I hope this goes quickly and positively for you, and everyone else here sees a strong and positive response from Kahr to your situation. My frustration until something like this is resolved, is that it may not be positive, Schrodinger's cat of customer service so to speak....

I'm not here to bash Kahr products or their customer service or repair process. I just wanted to know if this was normal to expect from them. Frankly I was saddened by the aesthetics of the piece when I got it back, and I just want it made right.


BLUE above are my retorts to your statements.

I believe you in this, and it shows in your posts, you do not seem to be Bashing so much as incredulously reporting an issue. To not look at a factory as the "experts" when dealing with an item THEY manufacture and then have something like this come back from a repair is not the norm. You are handling it well and I sincerely hope Kahr effects a quick and positive solution to the problem. You would do good to see if they will compensate you for your transfer should they replace the frame due to the fact it should have been replaced during the initial repair trip due to their workmanship. A free magazine is about the cost of an FFL transfer where I am for instance, but as long as you are happy with their fix, that is what matters.... Keep us posted, and good luck!

[Baklash]

I'm a relatively new Kahr owner (love my cw9 & cm9) and have had no reason, so far, for repairs. But I am truly disappointed in the work they did for you. I will be very interested in hearing their explanation for such a botched up job. I'm shocked at the condition of your gun after repairs by "experts". Keep us posted.

[diablo53]

A short time ago I received a call from Kahr customer service. They are issuing a brand new PM9. He told me they understand the outcome of the previous work was undesirable and for that they are sending me a brand new pistol..well to my FFL. He also told me they are including an additional 7rd magazine. At this point I am thinking "new gun and an extra new magazine", but then he tells me they test fired the new pistol with 50rds and used ALL FOUR magazines. So I'm getting a new pistol AND 3 MORE magazines than I started out with. Once I pick up the new PM9 from the dealer and see that it is like for like, I will be satisfied with Kahr's customer service. Make no mistake- I am not making out with a new pistol and magazines for free. I spent ~$95 shipping+insurance to send the gun overnight through fedex the first time. And now I will pay FFL tranfer fee to get the replacement.

[SmokyT]

Well, I'm glad that Kahr CS is making it right by sending you a new PM9.

[TheLastDaze]

maybe kahr reads this forum?? doubt it but its good to see they are making it right, even though I still think making you pay shipping the 2nd time around was a crock....

and if it was the older stubby version which jocko claims was better then that's a bummer, but on the bright side you get to start all over again with a new gun !!

I still say its time to clean house over there, something has to give that was inexcusable to have left the building and adding insult to injury...

rant off.

[diablo53]

maybe kahr reads this forum?? doubt it but its good to see they are making it right, even though I still think making you pay shipping the 2nd time around was a crock....

and if it was the older stubby version which jocko claims was better then that's a bummer, but on the bright side you get to start all over again with a new gun !!

I still say its time to clean house over there, something has to give that was inexcusable to have left the building and adding insult to injury...

rant off.

I did not pay shipping the 2nd time. Kahr emailed me a shipping label.
It was the older snubby version.

[diablo53]

Final update on first post. Thanks to all for backing me up about contacting Kahr about the work they did. I really feel like they did the very best to make me whole after I was let down by the first repair. I will brag about Kahr's swift handling of both repair requests and I still suggest Kahr first to people I know looking for a small cc gun. I also have a pm45 and really like it more than the pm9. It has just enough more grip to make it easier to hold. And even though it is a small gun with a big round, recoil is not worse than a 3" 1911 IMO.

[ReManG]

Final update on first post. Thanks to all for backing me up about contacting Kahr about the work they did. I really feel like they did the very best to make me whole after I was let down by the first repair. I will brag about Kahr's swift handling of both repair requests and I still suggest Kahr first to people I know looking for a small cc gun. I also have a pm45 and really like it more than the pm9. It has just enough more grip to make it easier to hold. And even though it is a small gun with a big round, recoil is not worse than a 3" 1911 IMO.

So if I understand it correctly, you are happy as even though there was an issue originally and then after their first "fix", the speed and thoroughness of their response made you satisfied with the overall experience? If so, I applaud you on your attitude during this endeavor, and am glad that (sincerely glad) Kahr made this right for you. It is absolutely disheartening when something like this happens, and I am glad there was no sentimental value in your original PM9.

I hope in the future you continue your postings here, great attitudes abound here and yours will not be lost in the noise. Thank you for the follow up and reporting of fixing to your satisfaction.

[diablo53]

Yes I'm happy. The old gun was broke, and a broke gun is of no use to me. It cost me ~$115 to get an 8 year old, broken gun replaced with a brand new gun plus get 3 more magazines. It wasn't an ideal situation, and I wasn't trying to get one over on Kahr, but I feel like I came out ahead. I wasn't even sure Kahr was going to cover it under warranty because the gun was so old. And frankly, dealing with tech support/customer service for large companys lately are more often than not very frustrating and highly disappointing. Having a company give you what you ask for, even if their first attempt causes another problem, isn't too common. Normally a company will look for every opportunity to deny a warranty claim. The level of service I received should be a model for other companies.

[ReManG]

That is great, I had not realized the original was 8 years old, must have missed that. I agree, the money was well spent and you are correct about the majority of companies looking to deny a reason to fix something.

[Jake97123]

I know this is an old thread but worth a try. The top picture, is it normal to have those marks on the sides of the barrel? Almost looks shaved. Mine looks the same and i cant seem to find anything on it. Is it an issue or do all cw9 barrels do that after a few hundred rounds?