MK9: FTE after 300+ rds & brass crimping

[MisterAnderson]

I hit the range today to put more rounds through the MK9 Elite. I've followed the 200 round break in recommendation , put another 100 rds downrange on my 2nd trip and today, my 3rd trip, another 100 for a total of 400 rds. For the record, ammo is Federal 115gr.

Now, I understand that the 200 rds is a recommendation, not an exact number, which is why I've waited to post this. I'm experiencing 2 FTE / 100 rds fired. All FTE were a result of the brass being caught between the frame and the slide (this is not my photo, but representative of what happens each time:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2078/2025708253_abaddab694.jpg?v=0

In addition the mouth of every case is crimped, severely, IMHO. It's at though the timing is just off enough and while it's never stove-piped, the cases appear to be crushed in that fashion.

I've saved a few casing and will post photos, but in the meantime, I'm curious to see if anyone else has experienced these issues.

[Dozer]

Taken from page 20 of the K40 manual:

"Note Regarding Primer Indent and Distorted Spent Cases
Upon examining fired cases, you may notice that the primer indent appears distorted or enlongated. This is normal for the striker system design of the KAHR pistols. You may also notice that the spent case becomes slightly deformed in the shape of a "D" instead of an "O" shape. This is considered normal for the KAHR postol and is caused by the spent case touching the bottom of the ejection port when exiting the gun. Neither of these two situations are a cause for concern and it is not necessary to contact the service department."

I'm not sure if this is your situation, but if it is then it's OK. The empties from my K40 are all slightly deformed... have been from day one, and it doesn't seem to care. It still works fine. As far as the other failures, try different ammo to see if the problems still exist. I am finding that reaching a comfortable level of reliable operation includes finding the ammo that will operate in your gun without failures (within reason). If I find a load that fails only once in 200 rounds (without cleaning) and that failure is near the end of that particular shoot, then I am comfortable with it in a clean gun.

[MisterAnderson]

Taken from page 20 of the K40 manual:

"Note Regarding Primer Indent and Distorted Spent Cases
Upon examining fired cases, you may notice that the primer indent appears distorted or enlongated. This is normal for the striker system design of the KAHR pistols. You may also notice that the spent case becomes slightly deformed in the shape of a "D" instead of an "O" shape. This is considered normal for the KAHR postol and is caused by the spent case touching the bottom of the ejection port when exiting the gun. Neither of these two situations are a cause for concern and it is not necessary to contact the service department."

I'm not sure if this is your situation, but if it is then it's OK. The empties from my K40 are all slightly deformed... have been from day one, and it doesn't seem to care. It still works fine. As far as the other failures, try different ammo to see if the problems still exist. I am finding that reaching a comfortable level of reliable operation includes finding the ammo that will operate in your gun without failures (within reason). If I find a load that fails only once in 200 rounds (without cleaning) and that failure is near the end of that particular shoot, then I am comfortable with it in a clean gun.

Thanks Dozer, another Read the freaking manual moment! :) My eyes must have glazed over during that part. Sure makes reloading more of a PITA. :mad:

[jggonzalez]

Do the failure to eject problems occur with a specific magazine? I was having issues with my MK9 and realized they were due to a magazine problem. Put in a new spring and the problems disappeared. If it isn't a magazine issue, I would contact Kahr customer service. They've always been very helpful in the past.

[jocko]

Make sure the recoil spring is on correctly, all else fails replace with new springs and test out. normally your cause is recoil springs. Some don't last as long as others. Keep your slide rails greased also. I polsh my feed ramp and inside the chamber of every semi I own, smoother the chamber the easier it exits. dented casing are the norm for kahrs, not alot of openng there for spent casing to clear ....

[MisterAnderson]

Do the failure to eject problems occur with a specific magazine? I was having issues with my MK9 and realized they were due to a magazine problem. Put in a new spring and the problems disappeared. If it isn't a magazine issue, I would contact Kahr customer service. They've always been very helpful in the past.

I haven't noticed them with a specific magazine (I currently only have the 6 and 7 rd factory mags). I plan on purchasing a couple backups and if there is a performance difference, I'll work with Kahr to get replacement(s).

[MisterAnderson]

Make sure the recoil spring is on correctly, all else fails replace with new springs and test out. normally your cause is recoil springs. Some don't last as long as others. Keep your slide rails greased also. I polsh my feed ramp and inside the chamber of every semi I own, smoother the chamber the easier it exits. dented casing are the norm for kahrs, not alot of openng there for spent casing to clear ....

If the recoil spring is wrong (I don't think it is), it would have been wrong from the factory. I've got some photos of the spent casings that I'll send to Kahr, perhaps they can be of assistance. In the meantime, I'll see if any of my fellow shooters have any extra spring sets to try out.

[ltxi]

I hit the range today to put more rounds through the MK9 Elite. I've followed the 200 round break in recommendation , put another 100 rds downrange on my 2nd trip and today, my 3rd trip, another 100 for a total of 400 rds. For the record, ammo is Federal 115gr.

Now, I understand that the 200 rds is a recommendation, not an exact number, which is why I've waited to post this. I'm experiencing 2 FTE / 100 rds fired. All FTE were a result of the brass being caught between the frame and the slide (this is not my photo, but representative of what happens each time:

In addition the mouth of every case is crimped, severely, IMHO. It's at though the timing is just off enough and while it's never stove-piped, the cases appear to be crushed in that fashion.

I've saved a few casing and will post photos, but in the meantime, I'm curious to see if anyone else has experienced these issues.

I had the same problem with my MK9.....FTE/badly damaged case mouth....when it was new and by 500-600 rounds the FTE rate was about 10%. Also was throwing most of the brass back instead of off to the right. Sent it back to Kahr, they replaced the ejector, problem solved and still running fine about 500 rounds later.

[MisterAnderson]

they replaced the ejector, problem solved and still running fine about 500 rounds later.

The ejector was on the list of usual suspects. I'll give them a call and see what they say.

[MisterAnderson]

I had an email chat with Ian and he's requested that I send it in. I'll update the thread after I get it back.

[MisterAnderson]

I give Kahr service, and specifically Ian B, a thumbs up review thus far. After some issues with getting the MK9e shipped back to Kahr, Ian provided me with their shipper number. It was dropped in the mail 12 Oct and I received it yesterday 20 Oct with a new extractor and parts 'polished as necessary'.

I'm hopeful that the new extractor will alleviate the issue intend on hitting the range in the next week to confirm that.

Again, a positive service experience from Kahr. I've found them to communicate well, assist their clients when problems, arise, and quickly resolve the issues at hand.

[MisterAnderson]

I give Kahr service, and specifically Ian B, a thumbs up review thus far. After some issues with getting the MK9e shipped back to Kahr, Ian provided me with their shipper number. It was dropped in the mail 12 Oct and I received it yesterday 20 Oct with a new extractor and parts 'polished as necessary'.

I'm hopeful that the new extractor will alleviate the issue intend on hitting the range in the next week to confirm that.

Again, a positive service experience from Kahr. I've found them to communicate well, assist their clients when problems, arise, and quickly resolve the issues at hand.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and I didn't get to the range until yesterday. I'm very dissappointed to report that the MK9 Elite is now even less reliable than before it was 'fixed'. I'm experiencing the same issues, and it's failing easily 5-10% of the time.

I've sent another email into Kahr requesting another RMA. I'll continue to update this thread until there is a suitable resolution.

[zeitgeist]

From what I've read - it seems Kahr has some serious QA issues.

Quite honestly there should not be this many issues at the price point Kahr sells their firearms.

[jocko]

From what I've read - it seems Kahr has some serious QA issues.

Quite honestly there should not be this many issues at the price point Kahr sells their firearms.

kahr needs to go back, certainly not indicative of all or most kahrs. It happens. man makes um, machines make um, Read most any particular gun related forum and you will find issues all the time. Some are user issues , some are gun related issues but you always gonna read on gun forums of issues more than non issues. Just the nature of gun forums. People also sometimes need a place to vent when they get a bad product. I really don't feel kahrs are any more issue prone than most other guns. Hell I paid almost $800 for a Para carry 9 and had to send it back 3 times just so that I could get it reliable enough to sell it and move on. Most Para owners have no problems. I got a lemon, no more, no less. Lemons come out of kahrs doors also. Kahrs customer service this past year has went from good to excellent.

But again if one has any doubts about any gun, best not to buy one. I am not married to kahr firearms either. I own 3 of them, all super guns, all with many 1000"s of rounds through them but if they proved out to be like my Para carry 9, I would peddle them and move on to another brand and give them a chance.

I tend not to read and "believe" everything I see in gun forums either, Be they pro or con. It should be a guide.

People truly love the Ruger lcp, but oh my how fast we have forgotten that Ruger had to recall over 50,000 of them to make them right. Mine had to go back twice before it was perfect. Now it is a very reliable and fun gun to shoot if I could only find some range 380 ammo for it. The Ruger SR9 also comes to mind also, a recall was needed to get it right. owners today don't seem to even judge the SR9 and lcp on its past either...

[jocko]

Mr. Anderson, what is the issues that you are having again after getting it back??U never elaborated on what they were etc...

[wagon]

Not completely disagreeing with your mesaage, Jocko, however LCP and SR9 aren't sitting in the same/similar price point of Kahr guns... well, may be except for CW9. All I'm saying is.. it is not unreasonable for people to have higher expectation from a $600-$700 purchase vs a $300-$400 purchase.

My $0.02


People truly love the Ruger lcp, but oh my how fast we have forgotten that Ruger had to recall over 50,000 of them to make them right. Mine had to go back twice before it was perfect. Now it is a very reliable and fun gun to shoot if I could only find some range 380 ammo for it. The Ruger SR9 also comes to mind also, a recall was needed to get it right. owners today don't seem to even judge the SR9 and lcp on its past either...

[MisterAnderson]

Mr. Anderson, what is the issues that you are having again after getting it back??U never elaborated on what they were etc...

The exact same failure to eject. Brass cases getting caught in the ejection port, jamming the slide, and preventing the feeding of another round. In addition, there are cases that are only getting pulled 50-75% of the way out of the barrel. This screams ejector issues to me (I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV).

[MisterAnderson]

From what I've read - it seems Kahr has some serious QA issues.

Quite honestly there should not be this many issues at the price point Kahr sells their firearms.

I agree. I don't fault them for letting one slip out of the door that has an issue, but to have to send it a second time for the same issue is a huge issue in my book.

I looked forward to owning an MK9 Elite, having fired the .40 cal version and handling several other Kahrs. I'm regretting my decision at this point. My $400 tupperware pistol has had almost 6000 rds down the pipe without a single failure, eating all types of commercial ammo. I believe the MK9 Elite should perform similarly but in a smaller, more concealable size.

[MisterAnderson]

I really don't feel kahrs are any more issue prone than most other guns.


I do. I own multiple handguns and can honestly say that in the 10-12K put through all of them, there have been zero gun related failures. Mag issues, cartridge issues, but no gun issues, and I've never had to send a gun back to the manufacturer twice.



Kahrs customer service this past year has went from good to excellent.


The customer service thus far has been excellent. I give Ian high marks for being responsive and even making the move to call me directly. I just hope this time that they can fix it, completely.

[jocko]

The exact same failure to eject. Brass cases getting caught in the ejection port, jamming the slide, and preventing the feeding of another round. In addition, there are cases that are only getting pulled 50-75% of the way out of the barrel. This screams ejector issues to me (I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV).

more like extractor issues than ejector..

[jocko]

I do. I own multiple handguns and can honestly say that in the 10-12K put through all of them, there have been zero gun related failures. Mag issues, cartridge issues, but no gun issues, and I've never had to send a gun back to the manufacturer twice.



The customer service thus far has been excellent. I give Ian high marks for being responsive and even making the move to call me directly. I just hope this time that they can fix it, completely.

have owned multiple guns, all new. My Para carry 9 went back 3 times. I owned 3 kel tecs and combined went back 17 times. (One does not have to believe that but I have all the documentation) My Ruger lcp went back twice, last time was for their total recall of all lcp's.

Not good to have to send a gun back once, let alone twice, so I do feel your pain but as u know it does happen and not just to kahrs either..

[MisterAnderson]

Not good to have to send a gun back once, let alone twice, so I do feel your pain but as u know it does happen and not just to kahrs either.


I'm certainly not disputing that other manufacturer have issues, But the fact that others have problems does nothing to comfort me. ;)

[jocko]

I'm certainly not disputing that other manufacturer have issues, But the fact that others have problems does nothing to comfort me. ;)

I think I stated, I feel ur pain. to..

[johnh]

Kahr will take care of you, no worries there. It is the nature of gun forums (as mentioned above) that lemons get turned into ample quantities of lemonade. ;) There are vast numbers of customers who buy perhaps one or two firearms, never read gun forums, never have problems (or shoot enough to even know), and thus never get their reports indexed by Google. More information savvy or hungry owners get online, research, and post their experiences. This is a good thing, but it does tend to draw more attention to problems. We are always more eager to discuss them than when our guns work great. I know I am the same way.

Hang in there, and keep us posted!

John

[MisterAnderson]

I was finally able to return the MK9 Elite to Kahr for a second review. In less than 72 hours, I had it back in hand with a replaced barrel, slide, and some additional parts/work that went above and beyond what most manufacturers would do.

I will continue to give Kahr high marks in customer service. I can only hope that this second trip to the shop has indeed addressed the issue. I'll find out this week when I hit the range and report back.

[In-Yo-Grill]

I was finally able to return the MK9 Elite to Kahr for a second review. In less than 72 hours, I had it back in hand with a replaced barrel, slide, and some additional parts/work that went above and beyond what most manufacturers would do.

I will continue to give Kahr high marks in customer service. I can only hope that this second trip to the shop has indeed addressed the issue. I'll find out this week when I hit the range and report back.

Looking forward to your next range report. I have a P45 that is giving me similar issues. I'm going to put another couple hundred rounds through it and if the problem continues I'll be sending it back to get it worked on.

On the other hand I have two other Kahrs, a P9 and MK9, that have been great. Eating all kinds of ammo, ball and self-defense rounds.

[MisterAnderson]

I was able to take my now essentially new MK9 Elite to the range early this morning before work.

I ran 240 rds through it included both Federal and WWB 115gr FMJ. There was one stoppage that I couldn't explain, but as it happened within the 200 rd break-in period (see above, the entire upper half of the MK9 is now new), I don't really count that as a 'failure'. I ran another 40 rds through it with no failures. I would have done an even 300, but work often gets in the way of my fun.

FYI, I shot a variety of methods, rapid fire, slow fire, off hand, and supported from a rest. The accuracy was excellent and the sights setup for a COM hold.

Overall, I give Kahr high marks for their responsiveness and customer support. I thank Ian B for working with me through this.

[deadhead1971]

I have a PM9. The first 200 rounds were flawless; between 200 and 300 rounds, I had 2 failure to feed--bullet nose dived on feed ramp. After that, no jamming issues, other than a peeling barrel and a guide rod flange falling apart. Some folks are reporting the trigger pin working its way out--I don't have that problem....yet

Kahr did fully address my issues satisfactorily. Thanks Ian.