police violence?

[marcinstl]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/eeb8ecda-6708-59fb-bac6-9561dda95333.html

"Thousands of demonstrators from across the country marched in downtown St. Louis Saturday, chanting "We are Mike Brown," as part of a series of events to protest police violence nationwide."

well it looks like the cops are in a fine mess. under budgeted, under trained? yes. some not smart enough or emotionally prepared for the job? yes. upper management, mostly jerk politicians? oh, hell yes. lots of flaws in the LE system, wouldn't know where to start the repairs.

[marcinstl]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/10/11/cash-seizures-fuel-police-spending/
more bad PR for LE

[muggsy]

I have never seen a police officer use more force than necessary or become violent without provocation. There is no need to fix something that isn't broken. If people of color show respect for the law they won't experience any difficulties. You reap what you sow.

[hardluk1]

I use to think that way till some years ago when a number of high and low ranking officers in the collier county sheriffs department got busted for various drug laws by the dea in my south florida county in the early '80's . A still thought some where were worth being friends with as I rode regularly with a group that were police , deputies and fireman back when Rodney King got stomped > remember ??
There way of thinking was if he did nothing wrong this time he had in the past or would in the future and deserved the abuse he got. I have always had officers as friends, hunting buddies and neighbors up to that time . Now I look at a officer with the same lack of trust as a guy fresh out of prison. They have to prove there worth .

[muggsy]

The next time you have a problem call someone from the inner city for help. I'll rely on the police. Most cops are just like you and I. They're honest hard working caring people trying to make a living and who at the end of the day just want to return home to their wife and kids. Rodney King was a drug abuser neer-do-well who lead police on a high speed chase endangering the lives of everyone in the community. He got a beating that he richly deserved. The travesty of justice was in awarding of a million dollars to this piece of crap by a bunch of bleeding heart liberals. Their stupidity induced others to follow in Rodney's foot steps. No justice, no peace. Burn, baby burn.

[marshal kane]

Have a nephew who is a police officer. At first, he liked the excitement, danger, and status right up until he was fired for sexual harassment to a female officer. He says he was framed by the female officer and lieutenant who was her boyfriend. It took my nephew almost a year to get back on the force with the help of the union. Meanwhile, he was digging into his retirement account to make things meet. I doubt he has much chance of getting a promotion with this on his record, innocent or not. Now, my nephew says he no longer has the heart to chase perps over backyard fences or do riot duty so he found himself a desk job. He has also recently gotten divorced. From my prospective, all of the negative things said about being a police officer are true. They catch it from all directions so who would want to make a career of it? I would never give a police officer any guff, you can never tell what the outcome might be.

[sharpetop]

The so called black leaders [ Jackson, Sharpton, Obama, Holder ] should tell them to get educated, learn English, get some family structure, pull your pants up, turn your hat straight and quit listening to rap music that glorifies killing cops. There aren't too many black role models for these people to look up to. They need to pay attention to Herman Cain, Ben Carson, Allen West and Bill Cosby.

[Longitude Zero]

I have never seen a police officer use more force than necessary or become violent without provocation. There is no need to fix something that isn't broken. If people of color show respect for the law they won't experience any difficulties. You reap what you sow.

Amen to this muggsy.

[Longitude Zero]

The so called black leaders [ Jackson, Sharpton, Obama, Holder ] should do tell them to get educated, learn English, get some family structure, pull your pants up, turn your hat straight and quit listening to rap music that glorifies killing cops. There aren't too many black role models for these people to look up to. They need to pay attention to Herman Cain, Ben Carson, Allen West and Bill Cosby.

Exactly!!!

[hardluk1]

Muggsy you life a sheltered life or just to so much of the corruption in law enforcement that's been going on for ever . This group of 6 officers change how I would look at any officer as the news had just hit the tv and they knew no more about it than I did. Just a group of racist and it would seem rightly so when a guy today can get shot for doing nothing wrong. Or kicking in the door to the wrong house and end up shooting a someone because some du-mass did not check the address before hand .
inflorida when I lived down there it was not black folk causing problems, it the higher percentage of worthless white boys, and girls that cause the issues .

I can go back to the 1970 for me when to many sheriffs deputies were part of the problem in south florida from simply looking the other way to stopping traffic several miles apart onn what became I-75 from naples to ft.lauderdale area fl to land aircraft to unload at night . So I will stand by what I said about trusting any ole officer. I will offer no more trust to an officer than they show. How that. Trust is earned on given as I have learned. .

[jocko]

our small town has 7 officers, mistly off the street people to. with no college education and when u pay them3`1K a year what kind of quality do u expect this citrty to draw. they carried reloads for a few years until I found out about it and boght them all 100 rounds of defense ammo. Its sad, the minute they take this job they are really job hunting again. Not much futre in most ofx these smalltowns cops pay going up, as our city is broke damn near as most small citys are due to the over whelming federal governments mandates to upgrade all kinds of sh!t. Our state police whi8ch does have highly trained officers they are started out at 38K a year, pretty hard to raise a family on that, let alone put on the b ullet proof vest every daY AND DOING UR DUTY AND REALLY IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND NOT KNOWING IF YOUR UPPER COMMAND WILL BACK U IF SH!t like ferguson happens. Wehave had our share of bad bad cops in Indiana, but due process has done a pretty good job of taking care of that lately . When u have over 1200 state officers, ur gonna get some bad sh!t.
This ferguson stuff is not right, teyt don't want to wait until due p[rocess,they want Wilson hanged now, no trial. U know the grand juryt has voted already but I think the prosecutor is scared to release it.

Course we may just find out in November afterf the election (how convenient) that we trade 5 terrorissts for a militaryt DESERTER. awfuly strange tha tthe white house is holding back on this release unless it makes them look b bad..

[marcinstl]

"the police", a term wrongly used to describe a group of people. what kind of police would be a question. the state police, the city or county police, some guy with a badge and gun pretending to be a cop for some village of 400 people? the training, pay rate, qualifications, management can very enormously.
if you have to talk to a policeman or call 911, it's all evidence to be used against you, so keep it brief. "yes", "no", "I don't know", "I'd like to contact my lawyer", "I'm in pain and need medical help" are about the only responses. you have a concealed carry permit in your wallet, right next to the card of your trusted lawyer? got to have both cards and lawyer on speed dial.

[b4uqzme]

It's so sad to see all this misdirected angst against policemen. Of course there are exceptions (and due process will weed them out eventually) but the POLICE ARE THE GOOD GUYS. I know I wouldn't want to walk in their shoes...standing in the line of fire with only cowards to back you up (or let you down).

[b4uqzme]

Warning --- rant incoming...

WAKE UP AMERICA! We are promoting the evil elements of society: criminals have more legal rights than their victims...morality and family are long forgotten ideals...hard work and success are scorned upon. FIX THAT! ...not what isn't broken.

[downtownv]

I see good and bad in any and all types of people. Those boys in Ferguson got in over their heads quickly and the Governor did the worst thing he could have possibly done, to ALL LEO in Missouri.
The flood gates are now open and there's very little that can turn that around now. All Missouri LEO's are in serious jeopardy. Perhaps they lost the battle when they brought in the Military type vehicles....Which I believe do NOT belong in the hands of those sworn to protect and serve.

[jocko]

so what is LEO gonna do if the grand jury finds a no bill on Wilson, which I feel they will. who u gonna send in there to keep them from buring their own town and u know they will riot. even if the grand juryt indicts him for a lesser charge, they will riot as they have drawd a linein the sand of what the want done with wilson, , fokk the lawful procedure, they wat o no part of that. so do u send in cdops local, state boys, national guard and whgat give um M4 with rubber bullits or no bullits and do u tell themn to ust stand there and get spit on and have P!ss throwb on them and do nothing. or do u just stand back and let them loot kand burn till cinders are the only thing left and then be criticised for lack of discipline. Would u want to be an officer sent into that mess with the restrictions that are gonna be put on u. U know they have some pride to, they don't want top be spit on or called pigs etc and have their cars dammaged and then shot at and be told basically to DO NUTTIN. Just asking here...

[downtownv]

Pin Prick air strikes, of course! Like the ISIS savages are getting.

[JohnR]

Pin Prick air strikes, of course! Like the ISIS savages are getting.
Those aren't working :(

[marcinstl]

" keep them from buring their own town"
see, that's one of the problems with the greatly marginalized poor, it's not their town, they jus be stayin and can move on quickly. it's a nomadic/gypsy lifestyle. since the shooting Ferguson has only registered 128 new voters, nobody votes. burn the place down, nobody cares. this is about right or wrong, or justice or black or white, this is just about rage and boredom. if the grand jury can wait for a good snowy day in Dec. to announce their findings, there won't be a riot, to cold.

[muggsy]

Muggsy you life a sheltered life or just to so much of the corruption in law enforcement that's been going on for ever . This group of 6 officers change how I would look at any officer as the news had just hit the tv and they knew no more about it than I did. Just a group of racist and it would seem rightly so when a guy today can get shot for doing nothing wrong. Or kicking in the door to the wrong house and end up shooting a someone because some du-mass did not check the address before hand .
inflorida when I lived down there it was not black folk causing problems, it the higher percentage of worthless white boys, and girls that cause the issues .

I can go back to the 1970 for me when to many sheriffs deputies were part of the problem in south florida from simply looking the other way to stopping traffic several miles apart onn what became I-75 from naples to ft.lauderdale area fl to land aircraft to unload at night . So I will stand by what I said about trusting any ole officer. I will offer no more trust to an officer than they show. How that. Trust is earned on given as I have learned. .

Growing up on the south side of Cleveland, Ohio you don't lead a sheltered life. I've know a lot of cops personally and the worst of them were better than the best criminals. In general cops are people and you can find good and bad in every profession. It's up to us to weed out the bad. A few cops end up in jail. Sooner or later every criminal ends up in jail.

[hardluk1]

muggsy I'll take your line one step farther- Never trust anyone even if they own a gun or a badge. They must prove to be trustworthy over time on and off the job to maintain that trust.

[jeepster09]

A big problem in today's world is that a large portion of un-qualified are promoted into management positions that are "UNQUALIFIED" they get there from ki$$ing butt. So when crooked or un-qualified staff end up under them, management is incapable of fixing problems. They either don't know how to fix the mess or are afraid to rock the boat. This becomes a serious problem in law enforcement when the staff can carry guns with immunity.

[Longitude Zero]

A big problem in today's world is that a large portion of un-qualified are promoted into management positions that are "UNQUALIFIED" they get there from ki$$ing butt. So when crooked or un-qualified staff end up under them, management is incapable of fixing problems. They either don't know how to fix the mess or are afraid to rock the boat. This becomes a serious problem in law enforcement when the staff can carry guns with immunity.

This is nothing new. It has been going on for decades in ALL workplaces. The competent and hard workers ALMOST never rise to the top and if they do it is in spite of their dedication and not because of it. If you think LEO's carry guns with impunity obviously you have failed to pay any attention to the news lately. I see cops all over the country being held to account for their bad deeds.

[marcinstl]

Monday morning news---
ST. LOUIS (KMOV.com) – Authorities are investigating after two people were shot in separate incidents minutes apart in north St. Louis early Monday morning.
A man in his 20’s is in critical, but stable, condition after being shot in the stomach in the 1100 block of Riverview at 1:47 a.m.
Less than 10 minutes later, authorities were called to West Florissant and Robin after a man in his 20’s was shot twice in the leg in an apparent robbery, according to police. "

stories like this are on the news all the time. no riots or protests, it's just black on black crime. crime and scamming the system are major parts of the ghetto economy and nobody really cares anyway. 2 guys in their 20's were shot, big deal, no surprises. 20 years ago some guy got on top of some girl and created a mistake, happens all the time. the mistake grew up in poverty with no effective parents and became part of the walking dead, out wandering the streets, waiting for the bullet. rest assured that even if these shootings had resulted in death, there's plenty to take their places and their mistakes are being subsidized by the taxpayer. round and round it goes.

[Longitude Zero]

Monday morning news---
ST. LOUIS (KMOV.com) – Authorities are investigating after two people were shot in separate incidents minutes apart in north St. Louis early Monday morning.
A man in his 20’s is in critical, but stable, condition after being shot in the stomach in the 1100 block of Riverview at 1:47 a.m.
Less than 10 minutes later, authorities were called to West Florissant and Robin after a man in his 20’s was shot twice in the leg in an apparent robbery, according to police. "

stories like this are on the news all the time. no riots or protests, it's just black on black crime. crime and scamming the system are major parts of the ghetto economy and nobody really cares anyway. 2 guys in their 20's were shot, big deal, no surprises. 20 years ago some guy got on top of some girl and created a mistake, happens all the time. the mistake grew up in poverty with no effective parents and became part of the walking dead, out wandering the streets, waiting for the bullet. rest assured that even if these shootings had resulted in death, there's plenty to take their places and their mistakes are being subsidized by the taxpayer. round and round it goes.

Ghetto is as ghetto does!

[Bawanna]

We're close to done here.

[Longitude Zero]

Now I look at a officer with the same lack of trust as a guy fresh out of prison. They have to prove there worth .

Since this is YOUR attitude I hold you to it. I feel that same about you. To compare an officer to a fresh convict out of prison really says more about you than it does about anybody or anything else. There are bad cops out there but they are in the miniscule minority. More preachers and men of the cloth besmirch their calling than officers. Remember the catholic church scandal that by the way is STILL GOING ON!!

[downtownv]

Stick a fork in this thread...... it's cooked.

[Bawanna]

I would but LZ's on a roll and I'm on his side of the fence on this one. I try to stay neutral but guess once in awhile I play favorites.

Anymore race talk and ghetto and the fork will come out.

[TheTman]

LEO's are just like any other job. You have the above average to competent, and the adequate, the corrupt, and the ones that should be digging ditches somewhere. I respect most police, especially if they are pulling me over for some traffic violation. I keep my hands in plain site, and when they approach, I have my DL, and CC permit ready, and tell them if I am carrying, and if so where the gun is located. That always seems to put them in a better mood. And things go better. Some start out with What are you stopping me for, there are others driving faster or something, and things like this just tend to aggravate the cop. I don't care if I know the guy is a bozo, I treat them with respect as long as they have me stopped.
But, I have seen some videos of things that just seemed way out of line. Many resulting in some civilian's severely injured or death. I still maintain the beating death of Kelly Thomas by Southern Cal police was totally unnecessary, and very brutal. But he was white, so there were no riots when all the police were acquitted, although the cop that started it all was chased out of some cafe's and things. The kid never struck an officer, yet up to 7 or 8 eventually piled on him, even knocking other officers away to get a whack in on him with a baton. All over him being a little mentally slow, and the officer assuming he was on drugs, and possibly involved in a burglary, although he was sitting on a bench minding his own business when the cop started hassling him.

[knkali]

Cops are underpaid, over worked and get less and less respect which makes their job harder. Most are good people trying to do what is right and get home at the end of the day. In short, it is a job and a thankless one to boot.

[jeepster09]

This is nothing new. It has been going on for decades in ALL workplaces. The competent and hard workers ALMOST never rise to the top and if they do it is in spite of their dedication and not because of it. If you think LEO's carry guns with impunity obviously you have failed to pay any attention to the news lately. I see cops all over the country being held to account for their bad deeds.
I did not say cops are not held accountable. More and more departments are run by incompettents. When I was a leo my department was well runn [overall].
I said "This becomes a serious problem in law enforcement when the staff can carry guns with immunity".

[kenm]

As several have said, cops are also people.
When I was working in neuroscience, we did several studies on intrinsic prejudice (ALL of us have it).
That study led to fear and human response research.
It is amazing how subconscious fear causes even the most "non-prejudiced" person to react.
When a cop is faced with daily attacks/taunts, etc by certain indigenous groups, it doesn't take long for him/her to fear and/or hate that group
The only thing needed to release that fear is some incident that crosses the cop's personal "line".
At that moment, emptying your magazine at the perp is simply the "fight or flight" response, which is something our higher thinking faculties can rarely, if ever, control.
Same goes for all of us.
So we can't "blame" the cops.
I'm not justifying "police violence" - just that it's not a simple "black & white" issue (no pun intended).

[jocko]

u read that all the time, especially in chicago. It is black on black, it gets zero headlines utter thn maybe one tme. Its sad but its true. blacvk on black crime seems to be not news, black on white crime seems to be very damn little maybe page 8 ews. white oN bLack, BINGO front page.. i AM SURE i HAVE MISSEDIT but there has been a black police officer who shot and killed a white BG, justifed, but I don't see riots occuring from this or actually much news either.. Is hould be that way IMO, but as u know it is not.

Some of the arrests made at ferguso last nite the people whgo got arrested some of them stated they came here to get arrested, just not tyo demenstrate. Boy, that makes sense now doesn't it.

[jocko]

would u appreciate having ANYONE spit in ur face. I wonder if the rioters would like to have police officers spit in their face, Woith this ebola sh!t flying around, I would think today that could be a serious charge even, but it seems our Police officers at ferguson have been told to grin and bear it. What do u think is gonna happen if the grand jury finds a no bill on officer wilson. Only take a majority, u know, are we then gonna dig holder back up and bring him to ferguson to again stir crap, oh thats right we have hair lip Jackson and fat ass Al to do his dirty work. Is this grand jury conna endict wilson totally out of fear for their safety and feel to sacrafice one maqn to save utters is OK???.

[jocko]

oh ur right jeepster, but these smalltowns have no money, they pay poverty wages, dedication can only go so far and it certainly won't put food on the table to often though it seems when a police officer really breaks the law, he is not prosecuted but allowed to resign and move on and then ayear later he is back in anutter police dept and the beat goes on. not sure how utter states work but in Indiana if even our smalltown hires a new guy to the department, he has to go the the police academy for 6 months, the same as our state boys at the same adademy. Meanwhile the local city that hire dhim has to pay him while he is at the academy. then as soon as he gets out and is certifeid, the first thing they do is start looking for a highert paying police job. Our guys barely make over 30K and we have lost someto Indiana State University for police jobs thatpay 10K more right off the bat, much better hours, much better insurance, overtime, and they don't have to send him to the academy eiother. Terre Haute police depaartment gets new officers that way, saves the big bucks, the officer immediately steps up to about 10K more and much etter benefits and certainly better equipment....

[kenm]

" keep them from buring their own town"
see, that's one of the problems with the greatly marginalized poor, it's not their town, they jus be stayin and can move on quickly. it's a nomadic/gypsy lifestyle. since the shooting Ferguson has only registered 128 new voters, nobody votes. burn the place down, nobody cares. this is about right or wrong, or justice or black or white, this is just about rage and boredom. if the grand jury can wait for a good snowy day in Dec. to announce their findings, there won't be a riot, to cold.

Correct - wait for the dead of winter - Why don't all of us use our writing skills and write in suggesting this?

[kenm]

P.S. I already did, for what its worth.

[jocko]

Correct - wait for the dead of winter - Why don't all of us use our writing skills and write in suggesting this?


well u certqainly made some good sense there..

[Rm7pr]

I haven't read all the remarks but I'll start off by saying let's not let a few bad apples ruin the bunch. As was stated before most cops are out there trying to keep the peace and go home at the end of shift in one piece. Also you get what you pay for. You spend 31k a year on a police officer which is a high skill profession then your asking for problems.

[hardluk1]

Zero you may go ahead and assume any ole leo you meet is a good guy . I know longer openly trust people. Seen to much to enough bad happen by good guys we should trust and expected by bad guys. That's why I look at a leo, a crook, preacher or neighbor all the same no matter there skin color ether.
They all have to earn respect and that only comes with time .

[marcinstl]

I wonder- who, what is behind these "protests"? how did Michael Brown get to be the poster child for anything? there's money and political gain to be had here. you don't see political activists, civil rights protestors, scam artists, etc. before an incident. sure see a lot of them afterward. good place to shoot off a big mouth. good place to raise money.

[MC1911]

You nailed it sharpetop. I would like to add this comment. People if you want to act like thugs , you will be treated like thugs.

[Longitude Zero]

I know longer openly trust people.

You have my sympathies for a sad and probably miserable little life.

[Bawanna]

I don't openly trust folks either, probably more than I should even but that doesn't mean I distrust law enforcement. I still believe that a valiant effort is made to weed out the bad ones and to avoid hiring them in the first place. The vast majority of cops are not in it for the money thats for sure. It's a sacrifice in finances as much as it is a sacrifice in body and soul.
I don't trust them completely either and I always question authority but I do it politely.

The phrase be kind, be polite but have a plan to kill everyone you meet sticks in my mind for some reason.

I've been told and I know it's true that LE is the one career where you can do everything correct and by the book and still be fired in a minute. The officer in Ferguson is a good example of this.

[knkali]

"The phrase be kind, be polite but have a plan to kill everyone you meet"

WOW

[Longitude Zero]

The phrase be kind, be polite but have a plan to kill everyone you meet sticks in my mind for some reason.

I've been told and I know it's true that LE is the one career where you can do everything correct and by the book and still be fired in a minute. The officer in Ferguson is a good example of this.

Agreed but as of right now as far as any of us knows, the officer is still employed with the PD. That could change in the future. If the Grand Jury issues a NO BILL and refuses to indict the PD will be hard pressed to fire him unless they want a ruinous employment lawsuit.

[JohnR]

I don't automatically grant trust either, but you can earn enough really quick by making a good first impression. After that, it's trust but verify.

[Bawanna]

I guess that's my point. It's a lose/lose for the officer. Even with a NO BILL verdict which is what I see if they don't bow to public pressure he's still gonna be in a bad place. His fellow officers are gonna be ok with him since they know where he's coming from. Command and higher up are gonna want him to disappear so they can work on PC damage control which is the whole reason it's such a huge media event.

They'll want to proclaim what they did to fix this horrible atrocity. We removed the problem which of course wasn't really a problem at all. They already had a service for the problem.

Now they are dealing with the rioting future problems, at the officers expense of course.

[Bawanna]

"The phrase be kind, be polite but have a plan to kill everyone you meet"

WOW

It sound perhaps far worse than it is but given thought it makes perfect sense.

And it's also not specific to police but to every sheep dog.

We have to act appropriately in public, it's the way PC correct sheep dogs are brought up.
The Wolf has no such rules and can be a rude arrogant jerk all the time but he can sometimes disguise himself when it works to his benefit.

Think sheep dog in line at the convenience store with the wolf nearby. Sheep dog is on Hi, how ya doing, please, thankyou etc mode. Wolf is in I'm gonna kill this dog and take his watch. He has a plan. Sheepdog is behind the curve and when the wolf makes his move the dog has to instantly switch mannerism from polite and kind to killing.

It's a fact of life and death.

[hardluk1]

Nope ,have a great live, just don't run around thinking most people are your buddy.

Bawanna Sheepdog and wolf !! Great analogy.