Thoughts on the Taurus PT140 Millennium Pro ?

[pbagley]

Just wondering if any of my Kahr Talk friends have experience with, or knowledge of, the Taurus PT140 Millennium Pro in 40S&W.

Do you know if there is any difference between the Made in Brazil and the made in Miami versions of the PT140?

I found an attractively priced Made in Brazil version locally.
This one is a lot less money than the G27 I've been considering.

Let 'er rip. Thanks.

[marcinstl]

MILLENNIUM PRO™ 140 .40 S&W POLYMER PISTOL IN MATTE STAINLESS STEEL
The models listed below are no longer in production and/or imported by Taurus International Mfg.

that was one of the DA/SA series by that company. no way to compare to a Glock, striker fired, saftey trigger, SA.
you would really have to shoot and live with each to see which kind of gun you favor. if you like the DA/SA look at CZ or Sig.
if you like the Glock, buy the Glock. shoot a 9mm and a .40 version of a gun before you buy. if you want big, go with .45acp.
I like a Kahr for carry and a SA for the range.

[berettabone]

" friends don't let friends buy Taurus."

[marcinstl]

berettabone,
your the Beretta expert? seems to be a 92 compact, a storm compact and a storm sub compact, then there's the nano. any favorites?

[Longitude Zero]

Back in the day Taurus was a brand to be avoided. Of late they have improved greatly.

[O'Dell]

Haven't tried a PT140, but I did have a PT145 six or eight years ago. I had numerous failures, about 25%, with various ammo and sent the pistol back for repair. When I got it back in four or five weeks, the problems continued. That and one other failure prone Taurus at the same time caused me to vow, never again!

[berettabone]

berettabone,
your the Beretta expert? seems to be a 92 compact, a storm compact and a storm sub compact, then there's the nano. any favorites?

No expert, just would not own a Taurus........too many issues, also mentioned by someone else. They have tried to copy other's designs without a lot of success. I own and like 92/96 series Beretta's.............wouldn't mind owning one of the older compacts. I would not purchase a storm/compact or a Nano. I just don't like the feel/grip of the Storm, but haven't heard too much negativity about them. The Nano has had some teething problems, just like Kahr.............don't know if they have them straightened out, I don't really pay attention to these particular firearms. Now, if I could afford a Billennium, or a combat model, or an Italian SS Brigadier Elite, sign me up.:)

[TheTman]

I've owned a few Taurus revolvers and never had a problem with them. I have been leery of their semi autos though.
I know many folks that carry their small CC revolvers and also have had no issues.

[b4uqzme]

marc mentioned CZ. I can vouch for them first hand. CZ's are amazing. I shoot IDPA with a CZ and it's easy to shoot fast and accurately. And zero failures (no exaggeration). But I cannot speak for Taurus other than their (poor) reputation. I've handled a few of their revolvers and just didn't get the same quality feel as a Ruger or S&W. I've never been tempted by their semi autos so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[DavidR]

Haven't tried a PT140, but I did have a PT145 six or eight years ago. I had numerous failures, about 25%, with various ammo and sent the pistol back for repair. When I got it back in four or five weeks, the problems continued.

I had the same experience - with my Kahr CW380. :) If that had been my first experience with Kahr I too would have vowed never again but I had a reliable CW9 and CM9 before I bought the 380 so I'm still open to owning another Kahr.

It's not a semi-auto but I have a Taurus 85 snubby. Fired about 25 rounds through it. It worked fine.

[pbagley]

Thanks to all who replied.

LGS had the used PT140 for a very attractive price, and a 30 day store warranty to fix anything that may go wrong. It looks near new, three magazines, plastic case and instructions.

I resisted for two whole days. Two. Whole. Days.

So the PT140 and I went straight from the LGS to the range where 70 rounds of 40S&W were sent down range. No failures. Decent accuracy. I had the Kahr CM40 along for the ride. Turned out the CM40 was slightly more accurate at 25 yards. Grouping was pretty well centered. All 70 shots stayed on the 50 ft targets I was using (at 25 yards).
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/13/62/95/74/20141020.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=785&u=13629574)

The CM40 with the same ammo grouped slightly better. Recoil is more comfortable than the CM40. It is not a lot heavier, but it is a bit wider.

So far so good, and one of the cheaper guns in the safe.

[O'Dell]

I had the same experience - with my Kahr CW380. :) If that had been my first experience with Kahr I too would have vowed never again but I had a reliable CW9 and CM9 before I bought the 380 so I'm still open to owning another Kahr.

It's not a semi-auto but I have a Taurus 85 snubby. Fired about 25 rounds through it. It worked fine.

I had two different model Taurus 45 semi's bought within two weeks and both had problems, were sent back, and still had problems. That did it for me.

[marcinstl]

berettabone,
http://www.berettaweb.com/Billennium/Beretta%2092%20Billennium.htm thanks for mentioning this gun, I'll ad that to my list of "probably never own, but want" guns.
in the mean time I'll struggle along with my old Ruger P-89 (used, $250 out the door). going to the range today to shoot the Serbian T-33 (another gun from the bargain bin.)

[berettabone]

Nothing wrong with the P89............................................... ......

[hardluk1]

Mt wife has a few handguns that are hers. She picked up a 9mm version PT111G2 a while back. I got the chore of shooting it in and 400 rounds later it was flawless and still is another 3 or 400 more. Nice trigger uses p226 mags for higher cap as back up/carry mag, plastic sights li many today but adjustable and a great grips . I like it .

I would say its not for the first time buyer as IF it has to be returned it may be gone a while but for the multi gun owner its a good low cost pistol at 300 dollar plus tax for carry. Thin and light for a double stack.

I think the 40 shown above is the older model. The G2 up grade makes for a far better shooter and just over 300 dollars in many gun stores. .

I carried a Taurus model 85 ss snubby for 20 years and now after 26 years its still a great snubby today . We also have a couple TCP's in the family for a few years now that have been great micro pistols too .

My cw9 kahr and wifes pt111g2-
http://s331.photobucket.com/user/hardluk1/media/102_0011_zps1cb86616.jpg.html?o=14

My 1988 Taurus snubby-
http://s331.photobucket.com/user/hardluk1/media/107_4231_zps2fa7a2b5.jpg.html?o=35

[pbagley]

Again, thanks for the thoughts on Taurus.

Full Disclosure - I own three Taurus firearms. Number one is a model 86 (I think) I bought in 1980, which is pretty much a pre-1965 S&W model 14 made in Brazil with softer steel. No +P in this one. If I had a S&W model 14 handy I'd see what parts interchanged - I've been told that all parts will interchange with a pre-1965 manufacture date m-14. Excellent accuracy with the right loads and a steady hand.

The third is a recent PT738TCP(C) which had a few minor feeding issues during break-in, but has been solid and trouble free for the last 600 + rounds. The only major complaint I have is that HydraShock's do not like to be unloaded (too long for the ejection port).

The PT140 is number 4, and so far so good. The seller's warranty is that they will fix anything that is not right within the first 30 days, not Taurus. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, but there is someone I can talk to face to face if the need arises. Based on the performance so far I don't think there will be any warranty claims.

Circling back to #2 - I owned a PT-92 in the '90s. It was my first dip into the 9mm pool. I could never get acceptable accuracy from this gun, so after years of experimenting with reloads I sold it, the brass, and the dies to a friend. He moved it to Utah with him a few years later. There were never any mechanical problems, just a failure to find a load that could print 10 for 10 in the black on a standard 25 yard timed&rapid fire target at 25 yards.

I am curious about the Taurus 45 failures mentioned above by O'Dell. What went wrong, which model (assuming you mean .45 acp caliber)? Any machine can have problems, even right out of the box. My CW45 is case in point. It does not mean that all products of that manufacturer are problematic.

[O'Dell]

I am curious about the Taurus 45 failures mentioned above by O'Dell. What went wrong, which model (assuming you mean .45 acp caliber)? Any machine can have problems, even right out of the box. My CW45 is case in point. It does not mean that all products of that manufacturer are problematic.

PT145 and Compact 24/7 45. Some people may be more tolerant than I, but when two out of two fail and the factory can't make them right in five weeks, I'm outta here.

I've been pretty lucky with semi's in the last 25 or so years and dozens of pistols. Other that the two Tauruses, there have only been two other problematic pistols. One was a very ammo finicky PF9 that changed it's mind with every range trip which ammo it liked. The other was an XD 45 that took 500 rounds to begin to become reliable. I sold two and traded the PF9 for my first Kahr, a CW9, and the XD for a Kimber. Oh, there were some guns I just didn't like after I got them. I love my classic SIG P220 with it's DA/SA trigger but didn't care at all for the modern P220 with a SS slide and DA only trigger. It was heavier than my 1995 vintage model and I never got use to the trigger. Also I had a KT P11 with what I considered a terrible trigger. I sold both.

Currently I have four Kahrs, Two SIGs, Three HK's, Two 3rd Gen S&W's, a Kimber, a Detonics, a SA lightweight 1911, and an LCP. All run as they should, and I don't plan on any changes in the near future.

[b4uqzme]

... All run as they should, and I don't plan on any changes in the near future.

Good for you O'Dell. I think I'm finally there too...'ceptin' maybe a great deal on a CM45. I kinda miss going to guns stores though. It's not as much fun when you aren't looking for something.

[O'Dell]

Good for you O'Dell. I think I'm finally there too...'ceptin' maybe a great deal on a CM45. I kinda miss going to guns stores though. It's not as much fun when you aren't looking for something.

I got my CM45 last week. It's prepped and ready to hit the range as soon as I get my free mag from Kahr - scheduled for delivery tomorrow. I'm not patient enough to go to the range with one five rounder.

[pbagley]

You're going to love the CM45. It isn't a lot smaller than the CW45, and it fit into the same kydex shell for me, but it somehow feels better. Accurate as you can be with something this compact. And generally just plain fun to shoot.

[pbagley]

Back to the PT140 - I cleaned it tonight. It was a little dirty when I bought it, but didn't look too bad. After looking everything over I'm wondering if this gun had even been fired the generally accepted 200 break in rounds. Everything is new and tight looking inside. It cleaned up nice, and I can't wait to get it back to the range.

[O'Dell]

You're going to love the CM45. It isn't a lot smaller than the CW45, and it fit into the same kydex shell for me, but it somehow feels better. Accurate as you can be with something this compact. And generally just plain fun to shoot.

I had a PM45 until it was stolen four years ago, so this is the replacement. I use to carry the PM in a jacket pocket but it was a bit large for pants. My normal belt carry is a CW45 and the CM fits in the same leather holster so that's also an option.

[queevil]

Marcinstl.

My first handgun was a Beretta 92 compact. It had a slightly shorter grip and a slightly shorter grip. It was anything but compact. It felt like I was shooting the full size version. I ended up selling it. It was nice and utterly reliable but it wasn't my cup of tea.

[queevil]

FWIW I generally like the Taurus 85 snubbie in .38 spl than similar Smith and Wesson j frames. The trigger seems lighter and I feel like the full under lug on the Taurus helps a bit in the recoil department.

[hardluk1]

queevil I decided to change the hammer spring only in my old Taurus 85SS with a wolff rp main spring to help my girls ease into revolvers when I stopped cc it after 20 years. I Changed only the hammer spring in it and that gave it a almost scarry light reliable trigger. SA pull is a fuzz under 2lbs DA is 4 1/2lbs. Its been used buy both my girls and 4 friends to learn handguns and to take the CC class with. Probably had a couple thousand rounds thru it after the spring change and never a failure to fire. It even surprised a couple s&w tuned up snubby owners. Two buddys went out and bought new 85's .

[pbagley]

Quick follow-up: I was back at the range last weekend with the now clean PT140. I ran some SD ammo, then a bunch of my reloads. I had a failure to fully chamber a reload (165 HP) at round 87. No other failures after that, but admittedly this was my last magazine of the day. The SD ammo ran flawlessly. At home I cleaned again and found the amount of wear into the bluing on the outside of the barrel has about doubled. It is starting to look broke-in. I'll post some accuracy and chronograph results in Reloading tonight.

[DeaconKC]

congrats pb, sounds like a winner. And hardluk, I am an admitted S&W snob, but i had a Taurus 85 Ultralight some years ago and it was a fine little gun. One of those i wish I had never let go of.

[hardluk1]

I'm a dan wesson revolver snob at heart . Mine will be one of my girls one day. Need to swap the old stock hammer spring back into it.

pbagley Do you use a grease on the barrel where parts rub?? Get ya some of this . Wear will stop , really good stuff and burn melt away if you go trigger crazy ! There Zero Friction is real good too.
http://www.proshotproducts.com/Pro-Gold-1-oz-jar_p_616.html

[pbagley]

I do not use grease. Usually I use Zero Friction, but I've been trying a dry lube lately on the little 9's.

[muggsy]

Haven't tried a PT140, but I did have a PT145 six or eight years ago. I had numerous failures, about 25%, with various ammo and sent the pistol back for repair. When I got it back in four or five weeks, the problems continued. That and one other failure prone Taurus at the same time caused me to vow, never again!

I had a few unsatisfying sexual encounters, but that didn't make me swear off women. :)

[hardluk1]

pbagly You don't even use grease on bolt lugs atleast?? Shame shame. I tried the dry lube thing with a couple brands a couple years ago and was not happy if the feel or smoothness of a slide racking with it but it might be better if you live in a sandy climate. . Been using zero friction since on most thin lube needs.

[pbagley]

You say "Shame shame" to the guy who is known for using a fair amount of oil in everything. This is new - usually I get "Shame shame" for using too much oil. Most range sessions involve cleaning oil droplets from the spectacles at some point, and my elbow has been used as a witness point. Grease is something that I've used on some firearms in the past (Rig), but not during November to March in this climate. Zero Friction came into use with the CW45 that had the problematic trigger last February, now nicely broken in and best of the lot.

It would be interesting to see a side by side test using the same make and model firearms, same round count, same ammo, the only difference being the lubrication. One could use grease (Rig, Mobil 1, whatever), one conventional oil, and one dry lube. If someone wants to fund the project I'll be happy to conduct the experiments and publish the results.

[hardluk1]

"Cleaning droplets of oil" and witness point Ha ?? That's Funny . I thought I ran a new gun wet. You take it to a whole new level.

I have put my pistols in the freezer over night some time back lubed the way I normally do at 0*. Walked each behind the garage 40 ' away, racked each and fired a mag full in both my cm9 and tp40. Both cycled fine but the first couple rounds in each sounded a bit odd slower to ignite. maybe just me. I have a glove combo I wear for something possibly stupid , tight Kevlar glove in full cut leather backed glove I use welding. Just in case. Barely can get on the trigger to pull it . Both ran fine. Not much of a test but coldest we will get is -5* couple times a year lately in the AM. Not like the extended flash freezer you guys have up there.

Have a good weekend