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Handy
10-17-2014, 05:30 PM
Dear Penthouse Forum:


14 years ago I owned a MK9. I bought it for a CCW, but decided that the light trigger demanded a holster, and that my P7M8 was actually a slimmer package in my coat pocket because it didn't need a holster.

Over the years I've owned a very large variety 9mm pistols (and some .45s), and find myself most attracted to good design, mechanical accuracy and metal construction. Lately, if I CC, it is much more likely to be a Beretta 950 than any 9mm. But I do have holsters for the combat pistols I own, so they can do that, if needed.

So while the Kahr line makes for nice carry guns, my interest in Kahrs has always really centered on the K9. It is all steel, you can get different grips for it, it is large enough to shoot like a full size gun but as small as you can get without being a subcompact. And it even has very good sights. If modern 9mm+P JHP is in the same lethality as .45 ACP, this 7+1 pistol does everything a 1911 does, but at about 2/3 the size.

Anyway, came across an ugly looking E9 on Gunbroker for real cheap. Lot's of finish wear. I was the only one who bid. While waiting for it to arrive I read all the tech, tips and problems I could find on this site. The K9 and E9 are easily the most reliable Kahr products (a common situation - I'd grab a G17 before any of the Glock models that followed).

It is likely a 1997 model, similar to Plateshooters in this thread:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?20863-My-New-to-Me-Kahr-E9/page2

So I picked it up today and immediately took most of it apart. I cleaned out the slide, then Teflon'd the small parts. I scrubbed off the light surface rust with oil and a brass brush. The frame was filled with gunk from carry and I found some rust in the mag release when I removed that. The frame itself had no rust, and the barrel just surface wear. The screws had a little narfing and wear, so I touched them up with cold blue.

Lubed where appropriate and reassembled. I took the mag apart and looked for follower rub from the mag release. Sure enough. Some quick sanding stopped it from interfering any more.

Observations:
The slide is carbon steel - it responds to cold blue. I didn't check, but I believe the barrel is, too.
The frame is matte blackened stainless - not a coating. The one wear area on the rail I tried cold blue on did nothing. (Magnets aren't going to tell you anything. Gun and knife stainless has low chromium and is magnetic.)
The blued barrel is polygonal.
The front sight is plastic, the rear metal.
The frame is stepped.

Essentially, I have a black K9 with a cheaper slide - pretty much everything else is later K9 spec. Aside from finish wear, the breechface, hood, rails and underside of the slide indicated that this gun was hardly ever fired. For a Kahr, the barrel and slide fit is fairly snug and the trigger smooth enough. I'm very happy with my purchase.

I found a gent on Armslist that would sell me his two leftover K9 mags for $50 shipped, so I'll have enough for even IDPA. I've got a really simple one piece Kydex holster design that I'll execute for my E9 - no worries about finish wear on this one. So early next week I'll be firing this one for reliability and bench rest groups at the indoor range with my plated lead reloads.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for all the tips and gotchas.

ReManG
10-17-2014, 06:29 PM
Cannot wait for pictures, there is nothing better than cleaning up a jewel from the rough... Sounds like you got a deal!!!

ripley16
10-18-2014, 09:53 AM
$219 is a great price. Congrats. Looks like a little TLC is due but that A-OK for a gun intended for carry. Definitely a stainless frame. Enjoy your new Kahr.

Handy
10-18-2014, 10:25 AM
I think the majority of the "wear" is actually just perspiration damage to the slide finish. I may just hot water blue the slide in the future, since replacement front sights are cheap.

CJB
10-18-2014, 10:36 AM
Leave the finish as is. Ma lu e sure it all works. Carry it n shoot it.

jocko
10-18-2014, 05:12 PM
for that price I would have bought it and just shot it like I stole it. Nice gun, not sure how plentiful E9 parts are either. I think the trigger bar is totally different but if it what I think it is, it is very beefy and will give zero issues. Ur barrel is made by Lothar so u have the bestof the best, I am sure it is stainless under all that utter finish..

Handy
10-19-2014, 01:22 AM
It has the modern trigger bar and the modern K9 frame. The only parts that are E9 are the slide stop, slide and front sight - all of which are replaceable with current production parts.

After IDPA today I had a chance to run one mag through it - perfect. Reasonably easy to control and aim under rapid fire. The extra mags were waiting when I got home.

The main reason I'd refinish the slide is that the rest of the gun is in better shape than the outside of the slide - and I can put a first class blue on it for $20. I did get a deal, but it will be more valuable to me if I were to correct the finish problems.

FLBri
10-19-2014, 07:45 AM
Did Jocko and CJB trade keyboards?

b4uqzme
10-19-2014, 08:23 AM
Did Jocko and CJB trade keyboards?

I thought he was talkin' french or something...;)

CJB
10-19-2014, 01:04 PM
I have grad utat d from th ejocko scho ol of tpiing!

b4uqzme
10-19-2014, 02:28 PM
Musta got an "A".

GROTMAN
10-19-2014, 06:17 PM
Did Jocko and CJB trade keyboards?

Made me laugh. U knw whst thiy sey abit une ad aple spaiing the wholllle barlell.

b4uqzme
10-19-2014, 06:24 PM
^^^ ya overshot the mark there a tad GROTMAN. :yo:

GROTMAN
10-19-2014, 06:40 PM
^^^ ya overshot the mark there a tad GROTMAN. :yo:

I agree. It's harder to mess up on purpose sometimes then it is getting something right. :o

kwh
10-20-2014, 09:54 PM
Sumptin's wrng . Ets awl maken scents. Mstn b kantagus like abolo virus.

Handy
10-21-2014, 01:46 PM
Aside from this very interesting stuff about typing, I discovered today that my E9 is quite a bit heavier than a K9. Close to 2 ounces. I weighed the gun with and without magazine, and weighed the magazine, then a Beretta of known weight to check my scale. The E9 is definitely heavier - 24.9 oz without magazine vs. 23.1 for a K9.

It does have a blockier slide and a solid recoil spring rod, but the total difference is the equivalent of a cube of steel 3/4" on a side. That's pretty significant.

Since this isn't a deep cover carry piece for me - I don't mind the extra weight at all. It is only going to absorb recoil and decrease slide velocity and wear, but it is curious.


Has anyone weighed their K9 to see if the published weight is accurate?

Bawanna
10-21-2014, 02:11 PM
That is interesting. I'll try to bring my K9 in to work here where we have a decent scale and weigh it.

I agree, the weight isn't a factor to me although I don't carry the 9. Just makes a more solid shooting platform.

Little extra weight isn't always a bad thing.

And don't mind these other fellas. We've run out of medication with the economy and all and it's showing.

All in good fun except for Jocko. He really can't type worth a damn, I think he uses his tongue or something sometimes. Takes a while to get the hang of it but we reach a point where we usually know what he says. There are exceptions of course, sometimes it's so far off in left field I think it's Muggsy.

Handy
10-21-2014, 03:06 PM
If you have a chance, weigh your slide and recoil rod individually as well, please. I'm really having trouble imagining where they put all that extra metal.

Bawanna
10-21-2014, 03:10 PM
I suspect a lot of the weight is in the slide. They didn't do as much machining and remove as much metal for the contours and outside cosmetics on the E's.

b4uqzme
10-21-2014, 05:51 PM
Is an E9 slide carbon steel (heavier) vs. a stainless K9 slide? I thought I read that somewheres.

RRP
10-21-2014, 06:20 PM
Is an E9 slide carbon steel (heavier) vs. a stainless K9 slide? I thought I read that somewheres.

Nah. There would be no appreciable difference in weight of slides made in steel and in stainless. Not for that small a volume of metal. Stainless steel has a slightly higher density than mild steel, but the difference is slight.

b4uqzme
10-21-2014, 06:33 PM
Then I got nuttin'. ;)

Handy
10-22-2014, 04:55 PM
Nah. There would be no appreciable difference in weight of slides made in steel and in stainless. Not for that small a volume of metal. Stainless steel has a slightly higher density than mild steel, but the difference is slight.
Material aside, they are machined different. The K9 slide is scalloped in front and relieved along the top edges forward of the ejection port. The E9 looks like Glock slide. So the E9 should be heavier - but 1.8 oz is a lot of material.



Bawanna, my E9 slide weighs 8.9 oz, and the guide rod an additional .3 oz. But the rod is mostly hollow, unlike the one pictured on Kahr's E9 parts page.

Handy
10-24-2014, 05:17 PM
Thought I'd post some pics: The first is as it came, the others are after the clean up. You can see from the faint barrel smileys that it hadn't been fired much.
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo304/RX-79G/GBKahrL_zpsbd120bfd.jpghttp://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo304/RX-79G/DSC00863_zps35c2a93a.jpghttp://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo304/RX-79G/DSC00865_zps362c0fd8.jpg

I called Kahr for more information. The CS rep was insistent that the frame and slide were both carbon steel, and that they were not "blued" but "black oxided". Normally, those terms mean the same thing, but here's what I think happened:

The slide was machined of carbon steel, bead blasted and hot blued.
The frame was cast, then given a QPQ finish like Melonite, which includes a black oxide stage in this high pressure process.

The end result is a frame that resists rust like a carbon steel Glock slide does - Tennifer is also a QPQ process. And the slide only was blued, so it could corrode as you see in the first pic. That would explain why the frame won't cold blue, but the slide will, and why the frame is in much better shape.