To be expected from a new PM9?

[MZ99]

I just picked up my new PM9 and went through 100 rounds with it. With the understanding of 200-round break in period, I didn't try to be as accurate as I can be, but simply to get a feel of it. So far, I have the following observations and I hope someone who has more experience with PM9 can help me understand whether they are normal or not. Your help will be greatly appreciated!

With all three mags, one 7-rd and two 6-rd, I've experienced FTF with the last round, which was out of the mag and would simply fell out when I open the slide. The ammo I used was factory reload.

I've also noticed the frame is bowing out on both sides under the barrel, as well as a visible gap between the slide and frame. (I will try to upload pictures for details later if I can figure out how) This is my first polymer gun so I don't really know what to expect, are these really normal for a brand new gun?

Thanks again for your help!

[MZ99]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/31/adc26a7700e958c00af6fbad2c7c196d.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/31/430c4476e01b9d6f8b21ce5c5f1b0409.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/31/df6581f134026572d03add0709df7e72.jpg

[muggsy]

The bowing of the frame is perfectly normal. All Kahr pistols are made this way. The feeding problem isn't normal. Check to see if the mag springs are installed properly and that the followers aren't hanging up in the mags. Also Check for broken followers.

[getsome]

Hi MZ99 and welcome to Kahrtalk....The bow in the polymer under the slide is normal as well as the little cut out of the left side frame rail...No worrys there......These guns tend to work better with the 6 round magazines but the 7 should work....You might try and take the magazines apart and be sure the spring is in the correct way, some have found new ones with the spring installed backwards....Another trick while you have the mag is apart is to take some fine sandpaper and smooth out the sides of the plastic follower where they contact the inside of the mags...Take some 800 grit wet/dry paper and smooth out the metal magazine feed lips of any burrs....

Keep shooting it using factory FMJ rounds, most here break in their pistols with range ammo from Walmart like Winchester White Box or WWB....Some pistols take more rounds down range than other to finally smooth themselves out and behave but they eventually will....Yours seems to be shooting ok and it may just be the magazine followers hanging up inside the magazine causing the last round FTF....Good luck and again welcome aboard, many nice and helpful folks here more than willing to help out with any issues or questions....Main advise you will hear here is shoot it like you stole it....

[getsome]

Well dang, Muggsy beat me to it but the advice is the same...

[b4uqzme]

^^^^ muggsy ain't quite so wordy. :)

Keep shooting OP but save the reloads for after the break in. Use the best quality range ammo you can afford. And listen to the above advice about magazine maintenance.

It will shoot your reloads fine in time.

Welcome.

[MZ99]

Wow, I know this is a helpful place but didn't expect so much help so quickly :-) Thank you all for jumping in and answering my questions. Will try to figure out the mag spring and follower, and switch to factory ammo for the rest of the break in.

Thanks again everyone!

[b4uqzme]

There can be other factors like grip, lubrication, etc. but I think you are on the right track. Keep us posted. Check out the "Prep" sticky in the New Member section...

[jocko]

thats muggsy is one fast dude. getsome, u gotta get up pretty early to get A-HEAD of him. Just saying.

what the hell is a factory reload??? Just sayin

I would suggest going to the kahr tec h section and hitting on the propper prepping of ur kahr, there are some dandy tips to check out to make that gun flawless,. Never hurt sto pre-prep ANY handgun.

[MZ99]

thats muggsy is one fast dude. getsome, u gotta get up pretty early to get A-HEAD of him. Just saying.

what the hell is a factory reload??? Just sayin

I would suggest going to the kahr tec h section and hitting on the propper prepping of ur kahr, there are some dandy tips to check out to make that gun flawless,. Never hurt sto pre-prep ANY handgun.


As I'm not skilled enough yet to reload myself, I purchase reloaded ammo to save a buck or two :-) and I presume it's made in a somewhat factory setting, not by some dude in his basement. I could be wrong, though.

[muggsy]

^^^^ muggsy ain't quite so wordy. :)

Brevity is the soul of wit. :)

[muggsy]

The only reloads that I have full faith in are my own and I'm not always so sure about them! :) Seriously even some factory fodder can be screwed up, but if it is, at least you have someone to sue for damages. Stick with quality name brand ammo for the break-in period and clean you gun frequently. Every fifty rounds is best. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches.

[CJB]

Brevity is the soul of wit. :)

And neither can water flow from a dry well, jus' sayin'!

~~

One thing not mentioned, and worth a check, is the feed ramp's interaction with the follower. I'm wondering if the feed ramp is bumping the follower - which would be in a rearward direction - perhaps whacking the round out of place.... if I'm understanding the problem right.

Just field strip, reassemble barrel on frame with slide stop, push barrel back all the way, see if it can touch the follower(s). If it does.... might wanna call Kahr. Local smithy's or DIYers could also trim the very small amount needed... but ya know.... new gun and all, Kahr should correct it.

[MZ99]

Hi, I took all three mags apart and the orientation of the springs appear to be correct, and the followers could also move smoothly to the top. Shot another 100 rounds of factory ammo (Winchester value pack), here is what I got.

Both 6-rd mags worked flawlessly, but the 7-rd mag had 100% FTF with the last round :-(

I did read the feed ramp interaction with the follower in the prep section, and I followed your instruction to examine it, there is no touching. I'll upload the picture for the 7-rd mag, as well as the 6-rd one, and they look the same to me.

Any suggestions on where to go from here will be greatly appreciated!

6-rd mag:

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/02/94a4f5581637ede4512a54b5a17f9f71.jpg

7-rd mag:

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/02/0eccecf3125a4727b2af0e26a72e8c13.jpg

[CJB]

Mighty darn close on that ramp but they all are. Did you hold the barrel back _and_ depress the follower in an attempt to make them touch?? That be the way to test 'em.

[MZ99]

I just tried that, but how to qualify a valid test, though? If I push the barrel back horizontally as hard as I can, yes, all three mags will bump into it while depressed. However, isn't the barrel tilting up a little bit when slide is pulled back? When I did that, no more touching. Thx!

[muggsy]

Actually, the rear of the barrel drops down due to the kidney shaped hole in the barrel lug, but you do have the right idea. If the feed ramp is interfering with the follower on the seven round mag it should also interfere with the follower in the six round mag since the mags are otherwise identical. You might try stretching the seven round mag springs a bit to give them more tension. I never cared for the extra length of the seven round mags and use only the six. They seem to be more reliable.

[muggsy]

[QUOTE=CJB;321441]And neither can water flow from a dry well, jus' sayin'!

Touche'. That French fer, "ya got me."

[muggsy]

When The last round fails to feed what type of jamb are you getting? Is it a nose dive, failure to go fully into battery, or other. What type of ammunition are you using? Have you tried other brands or types of ammunition?

[TheLastDaze]

hope you get it up and running I love my pm9 and has been absolutely flawless, not one issue ever.....

but seriously why is it the consumers responsibility to check to make sure the springs are properly orientated???? isn't this a gun manufacturer or is it a sister company and something that's done on the side??? absolutely stupid company management if you ask me.....

[yqtszhj]

If it works ok with the 6 round mags its just a 7 round thing. The 7 round mags are buggers sometimes in the pm9 anb cm9. I did get an 8 round mag to work in a cm9 but i had to use every trick in harrylees book to get it to work. I cliped coils off springs, sanded followers, etc... my 6 rounders always work good though.

[MZ99]

When The last round fails to feed what type of jamb are you getting? Is it a nose dive, failure to go fully into battery, or other. What type of ammunition are you using? Have you tried other brands or types of ammunition?

I was using new Winchester target ammo. The round was out of the mag, but not in the chamber at all, so I'm not sure how you would label it. I was able to drop the empty mag, and open the slide to let the cartridge fall out. Besides this ammo and the factory reload, which I also had trouble, I haven't tried other type of ammo yet. Thx.

[jimsea]

Inertia feed malfunction. Essentially the loose round is being dragged forward and out of the mag because of friction with the preceding round. This can happen when the mag spring is providing the least amount of upward pressure (last round) and the mag lips are not providing enough friction/pressure on the round. More friction from the mag lips will solve the issue. In other words, bend the lips in slightly to hold the round more securely. Also make sure the mags and ammo are free of lubricants which for obvious reasons can aggravate the issue.

PM/CM series Kahrs are great EDC pistols and are super reliable.........but their mags not so much. The tubes and followers tend to require a some tweaking to become 100 percent. Kahr is well aware of the mag short comings.......they don't seem to care. Still a great pistol though.

I would never part with my 2 PMs.........like a good woman if she were easy she wouldn't mean so much to you. The pistol is definitely worth the hassle of getting the mags right.

edit: Mag tweaks=
sand follower/increase angle (to prevent nose dives)
squeeze mag tube slightly (to drop free)
adjust mag/feed lips to prevent inertia feed (kind of a rare issue)

[MZ99]

After reading another post on the effect grip can have on the 7-rd mag, I went out and gave it another try. Each time, I loaded three cartridges in the mag, chambered it, and shot it while absolutely NOT touching the extension of the mag with my pinkie. Guess what? I got to shoot the last round and a slide lock! I still got a couple FTF, though, and I think they were due to the fact that I slightly touched it, and once I might have looked at it the wrong way, so delicate! :-)

So now I know it's capable of performing its task, is the remedy still the same as the previous post suggested (thanks btw!) to nudge it to 100%? Is that even possible?

Thanks all for taking the time to try to help me solve this problem! So far, I like this little gun a lot, it's definitely a keeper!

[jimsea]

......... to nudge it to 100%? Is that even possible?



As far as the 7 round mag goes............it's best to nudge it 100% under the tire of your car/truck and back over it. Wouldn't risk my life on that 7 rounder (or trade for a 6 rounder).

[CPTKILLER]

Strange.

No issues with my MK9 like this.

[Dano]

I just picked up my new PM9 and went through 100 rounds with it. With the understanding of 200-round break in period, I didn't try to be as accurate as I can be, but simply to get a feel of it. So far, I have the following observations and I hope someone who has more experience with PM9 can help me understand whether they are normal or not. Your help will be greatly appreciated!

With all three mags, one 7-rd and two 6-rd, I've experienced FTF with the last round, which was out of the mag and would simply fell out when I open the slide. The ammo I used was factory reload.

New guy here but not new to weapons. My CM9 was doing the same thing during break in. Last round of every mag would not fire.
I found that the trigger was not resetting on the last round. Just the slightes pressure on the back of the trigger and it would reset
and fire. At approx. 150 rounds, I broke it down and cleaned it and went back to shooting. The first mag I fired failed to fire on the
last round and I had to reset the trigger. The next mag ran perfect locking back on an empty mag. Every mag after that ran perfect.
I've owned pistols since I was 15 years old. (Ran a trap line and used a High Standard 9 shot .22 to dispatch those that were still
alive) and have never seen or heard of having to reset the trigger manually on the last round of a mag. I have a little over 300 rounds
thru it now and it's never done it again. If yours does this again, try a little pressure on the back of the trigger and if it's the reset,
please let me know.
Dano

[muggsy]

hope you get it up and running I love my pm9 and has been absolutely flawless, not one issue ever.....

but seriously why is it the consumers responsibility to check to make sure the springs are properly orientated???? isn't this a gun manufacturer or is it a sister company and something that's done on the side??? absolutely stupid company management if you ask me.....

I don't believe that Kahr manufactures the magazines. At one time their supplier sent them a batch that weren't properly assembled. It isn't the gun owners responsibility to check the mags. It's only a suggestion from your friends at Kahr Talk. It isn't too terrible a task to accomplish and only an obstinate A-hole would choose to not accept this piece of advice in the same spirit which it was offered. I'm sure that this doesn't apply to you. :)

[Bawanna]

How bout me, does it apply to me?

[muggsy]

Only if you have rocks in your head. :)

[MZ99]

..........
If yours does this again, try a little pressure on the back of the trigger and if it's the reset, please let me know.
Dano

Hi, I went out to try it and I could NOT believe it! A couple FTF again on both 7rd and 6rd mags, ALL "fixed" by following your suggestion, just a gentle push forward on the trigger and I could definitely tell the reset and was able to fire the last round! So your gun stopped behaving that way on its own? I certainly hope for the same......... I do completely agree this is very strange experience to me, but I've never had a pocket gun before...... Thank you very much for sharing!!!


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