PM9 Broke

[trimore]

So I went to the range last night.....

I usually shoot up one of my SD mags just to make sure all is still feeding right.

I could not get through the 1st mag before something happened.

Here is what occurs.

1. Lock slide back
2. Insert mag
3. Release slide
4. Fire
5. New round in chamber
6. Pull trigger all the way back but no fire. The trigger just pulls back without engaging anything.

This process can be repeated. Had the range officer check it as well and same thing.

I purchased this used and it showed some wear but was estimated at under a thousand rounds and I have put maybe 400 rounds through it.

Boy oh boy. This does make me feel good about the gun I have been carrying now for almost a year. I have not shot it for over 6 months but carry it daily.

Anyone see this before?

[deadhead1971]

So the gun will no longer fire? There is no 'click' of the firing pin?

Check the trigger spring--take slide off and look down in behind the trigger and see if it looks ok. Then while pulling the trigger, see if that metal piece on the back of the inside of the polymer frame moves.

[trimore]

The gun with fire one round, load another round and then will not fire again. There is tension on the trigger from the trigger spring and it looks to be intact.

The metal piece does move.

[millsusaf]

That is very weird that it will fire one round and then chamber another but not fire the second. It's a stupid question but, are you certain the slide is fully forward and the round fully chambered?

Does this happen with only one type of ammo, several or all?

Depending on the answers I'd call Kahr. I've never had to use it but I've always heard that their customer service is great.

Good luck.

[trimore]

I called Kahr and got a RA. They said they could not find anything wrong with it and are sending it back. I am really quite concerned about this.

The slide was all the way forward. The issue occurred with my SD ammo. Hornady Critical Defense. I don't see how ammo would have anything to do with it. The trigger, did not reset. It would just pull back all the way and not fire. This was repeated 5 or 6 times at the range and 2 of those times, the range officer had the same issue and said, it needs to go to in for service.

[500KV]

Sounds like your STRIKER BLOCK or STRIKER BLOCK SPRING might be the problem.

You'll have to strip the slide to see, but make sure the little spring is in place and that the striker block is moving freely.

Be careful because the little spring is easy to lose.
Here's the diagram page. Look for the PM9 slide parts pic.

KAHR ARMS ONLINE SHOP (http://www.kahrshop.com/index2.asp?cate=parts&model=MK9)

[deadhead1971]

does it happen with fmj target ammo?

Kahr would have probably tested it with fmj ammo

[jocko]

u have an out of spec trigger bar, kahr should have caught this when it went back in.. Here is what I would recmmend: See how it works after getting it back, Kahr might have fixed it and justnot stated it also. I would doubt that though. If it still does whatyou say call karh and ask for EOIN (He is the new fella that replaced IAN. He is from england and has superior firearm background. (so I have been told) explain it in full detail to him and get his feed back.

FOR ALL THE FORUM MEMBERS. EOIN IS THE REPLACEMENT FOR IAN. Basically the same pronunciation..

trimore: PM sent

[Bawanna]

Yup, I agree with the trigger bar. It'll shoot once (if your lucky), then drop out of position and it's game over. Ammo don't matter.
It could just be the trigger bar spring too. If it's not keeping the bar up in position, it just hangs down uselessly.

[trimore]

Guys, do you think I could replace these parts myself. I don't have much experience working on guns but am very mechanically inclined.....

I got the gun back and it did the same thing as soon as I took it to the range. One fire, then the trigger just pulled back and did not fire. After that one occurrence, I put about 5 more magazines of ammo through it without any issue.

I definitely think there is still something wrong.

[zebraD]

Are you completely letting go of the trigger after the first shot. It could be that you not letting the trigger fully reset.

[trimore]

Are you completely letting go of the trigger after the first shot. It could be that you not letting the trigger fully reset.

Yes. Two other people shot it and the same occurred as well. I don't think it is me.

[kahrbrian]

I cannot believe KAHR did not make it right!

[trimore]

I just spoke to Ian or Ion.. He said that at this point he thinks I should take it back to the range and shoot it some more and see if I can get it to do it again. He said that it is possible that I did not fully release the trigger. I am not so sure that is the issue but I will give it another shot.....

[jeep45238]

Guys, do you think I could replace these parts myself. I don't have much experience working on guns but am very mechanically inclined.....


The spring, sure, you can remove a torx bit and access it easily for replacement.

The bar itself, you'd be better off not attempting it yourself unless you have a hydraulic or arbor press and have the proper sized punch to remove the trigger pin.

[jocko]

trimore: question, how many rounds have you through the gun??? I would give it one more trip back to the range being aware of the trigger release thing. I don't really think that is the issue,but give it another chance before calling to send it back. It just might need some more rounds through it also????

[trimore]

trimore: question, how many rounds have you through the gun??? I would give it one more trip back to the range being aware of the trigger release thing. I don't really think that is the issue,but give it another chance before calling to send it back. It just might need some more rounds through it also????

I bought it used. Was not heavily used. Since I have had it for about a year. I would estimate 400-500 rounds through with out any issue except for a FTE a time or too on cheap rounds.

[jocko]

I bought it used. Was not heavily used. Since I have had it for about a year. I would estimate 400-500 rounds through with out any issue except for a FTE a time or too on cheap rounds.

strange after all those rounds and it just now is acting up. usage of the gun IMO should have no bearing on it either, as it should even be much smoother than when new.
have your replaced the recoil springs (at least the outter one). If the gun is the slightest bit out of battery, it will produce exactly what your saying to. Not saying this will help either but why not order from wolffs.com. there 20.5 recoil springs for the PM9 and just put on the outter spring with the open end towards the front of the slide. this set up will really bring the slide back to battery to. It might look, like it is locking up (and probably it is to) but these heavier springs might just assure you of that to.

I have know kahr to replace the entire slide on a gun due to being out of battery enough to produce light strikes, even though to the owner it looked OK. Normally a new trigger bar is replaced during this process to.

Give it another 50 rounds the document all 50 also and concentrate on your grip alot. eliminate any possables, so if it has to go back yoiu can state exactly what you did to produce these results etc

If you bought it used, you also don't know if the recoil springs are good or have been replaced or never replaced. have you ever cleaned out that striker channel sinc eyou bought the gun???Quite possably there could be some crud in that channel that can cause light strikes. That little hole on the bottom of the slide pictured in the kahr lube section on the kahr tech forum is there for a spray nozzle to go in and blow all the crud out of that area. Again eliminate all the possables if u can. a dirty striker channel wil produce results like your stating also BUT not the result of actually pulling the trigger allthe way back and feeling nothing. that is indeed something else causing that, and IMO it has to be a bad trigger bar or bad slide .

PM sent to you also.

keep the faith, we willbe waiting to see how this comes out:popcorn:

[RogerP9fan]

The fact that it did it again after you got it back from Kahr is concerning. Did they tell you that it was in fact the trigger bar/spring? What did they do , replace those parts for you? Jocko or Bawanna, is it rare for either of these two components to go bad leading to this nightmare? (if he were being attacked, not so much at the range..just a disappointment there....)

[trimore]

The fact that it did it again after you got it back from Kahr is concerning. Did they tell you that it was in fact the trigger bar/spring? What did they do , replace those parts for you? Jocko or Bawanna, is it rare for either of these two components to go bad leading to this nightmare? (if he were being attacked, not so much at the range..just a disappointment there....)

they did not replace anything when it went to the factory. Today after speaking to CS again, the CS rep spoke to the gunsmith and said that he disassembled it and put it back together and then tested it and could not duplicate the problem.

Yes, you get it, this is no range gun. I need it to work when called upon. Hope that never occurs, but .....

[kahrbrian]

This is a tad scary to me...

[RogerP9fan]

Ehhhhhh, yeah. God forbid, I hope the day never comes..... but if I need my P9 to be my best friend and not to let me down and this happens? Mind you, I've never even fired it yet (racking the slide as we type) Just recently out it's oil drenched plastic bag placenta. Now, I'm gonna teach her how to crawl and eventually how to walk and then to run Olympic Marathons at the range!!!!! :86:

[jocko]

The fact that it did it again after you got it back from Kahr is concerning. Did they tell you that it was in fact the trigger bar/spring? What did they do , replace those parts for you? Jocko or Bawanna, is it rare for either of these two components to go bad leading to this nightmare? (if he were being attacked, not so much at the range..just a disappointment there....)

I am at a loose to say what the issue is. the fact that it went back and they went through the gun (so they say) and did nothing concerns me. Tri more needs to take it out and give it one more go around and if it acts up, then indeed it needs to go back. the trigger bar spring, never gives any problem. they dont break, they don't wear out, Now I have read and heard back from owners who had to send their guns back to say tha tthey repalced the trigger bar. It that trigger bar is out of spec, it will cause light strikes, again this should not be happening. If a slide is out of spec it willcause light strikes. We cannot see that, kahr people can, they know what to look for and that is why alot of tmes one says he got his kahr back from repair and they replaced the slide. Something has since it was made and then shot by the owner has changed enough to cause the slide to be the culprit. As it is a machined part totally, it can get out of spec and evidently it does not take much.

I tend to lean towards trimore knowing what the hell his gun is doing wrong. he sure isn't making it up and he is loosing faith in it. Now he needs to run 50 or so rounds thrugh it to eliminate any possable errors on his shooting style etc before he attempts to send it back to kahr.

A good example, I just got my trusty P380 back from kahr this past week. I have had over 1500 rounds through it and all of a sudden it would not lock open PERIOD. I putin new mag springs,new slide lock lever, new slide lock spring, new follower and still no go. So back it want. THEY REPLACED THE DAMN SLIDE and it works perfect. Now you figure it out. What the hell changed in 1500 rounds to cause this, why was all the normal things that cause a slide to not lock open not solve the problem that was not happening for the first 1500 rounds. I cannot give you an answer that makes alot of sense on trimore's gun, nor on my P380. It now works perfect AGAIN. It has always went bang but the slide lock issue just bugged me..

We don't make um, we just shoot um as u well know..

[RogerP9fan]

That's why this forum is such an assett to us all. We all share our experiences and ideas as well as working with the manufacturer to acheive that goal we all seek.

[Specialized]

I have a PM45 that exhibits a similar issue, and I might be able to help you reproduce it. I've found that if you pull the trigger all the way back to where it stops due to contact, then wait until after the recoil impulse if complete to let the trigger forward to reset, the problem will happen much more frequently. On mine, if I don't bring the trigger all the way back when I shoot, it won't do it at all. For those who know the innards of our little addictions better than I, does this shed any light on what might be taking place in there?

Specialized

[RogerP9fan]

Specialized.....Very interesting observation and thanks for sharing. From an internal mechanical perspective, I have no friggin idea, perhaps another member can shed light. Never fired a Kahr yet, but very soon!