My Kahr P380 - Unreliable for Personal Defense

[kenm]

Any unbiased person who reads the posts on kahrtalk will observe the high incidence of the small 9mm and 380 Kahrs failing to fire unacceptably often.
All kinds of reasons are given, and painstaking methods to try and keep the guns behaving are prescribed - it's like looking after a rare orchid. - its a damn gun that should work first time, every time - like a Glock does.

Then we see owners express joy when Kahr returns their failed firearms quickly, postage free. - It should NEVER have had to go back for repairs in the first place!!
It is a new, expensive firearm, made in the USA !!!

I was initially so excited about the Kahr P380 - its pocket size, trigger feel, external appearance of quality.
Until the time came to use it for its purpose.
I had problems from day one with this gun's non-performance.
I did all the advised pre-range prep before my first range trip.
At the range. it took an unholy 2 hours to get only a 100 rounds to fire - after stopping countless times due to the dreaded "click" and no "bang", among other issues.
The Range Master came by to help soon after the problems first began, and said, "Ah, it's that #!!# M----- gun (apparently referring to the owner and CEO of Kahr). he struggled with it, trying 3 different major manufacturers' round-nosed ammo (beside the PMC and HPR I was using)

Finally, after two plus hours of frustration, I took out my trusted Glock 17, and put 30 rounds dead on target before leaving the range - just to get the bad P380 taste out of my system.

I went back a couple of days later (yes, I cleaned & lubed the thing first, per this forum's Lube Chart)
This time it was almost all clicks. Another Range master came up and played around with it - no luck.

Took my new P380 back to the dealer. He played around with it for a day and I got a call the next day.
"The striker is marking the base of the shell, but not enough to ignite the primer every time" – Intermittent failure – 6 or 7 failures out of ten – this is more of a self-destruct gun rather than self defense.
The dealer also had several FTL and failure of the slide to lock back (on the rare occasions when the gun actually fired the last round in the magazine!!)

Also while at the dealership, we noticed that the polymer frame had bits of polymer hanging off it when the slide was removed.

The dealer sent it back to Kahr for repairs.
.
Anyway, I then ordered a Glock 42 and will be picking it up this month.
What an utterly frustrating experience.

No "self defense" weapon, especially a daily concealed carry, should be this unreliable - how can you trust it??
Even if it works for a while after the numerous repairs, will it decide to have another tantrum just at the moment that perp is about to attack you?
A CCW should not need this much fussing over - which most posters on this site seem to have to do – and some say it requires a clean and lube every 100 rounds !!
My brother's Glock 42 and Springfield XDS (9mm) have been 100% reliable from day one with round nosed ammo from major manufacturers.


Ah well, you live and learn – update in next post.

[muggsy]

Ya know, I once bought a new car. It was expensive and was made in the USA. Within the first two thousand miles the power steering pump failed and it had to go back to the dealership for a new pump. I guess what I'm trying to say is that nothing made by man is perfect. Some things fail. There are far more P380s that work just fine right out of the box than don't, but you don't hear from their owners, because they have nothing to complain about. And then there are those people who just like to b!tch. Into which category do you fall?

[kenm]

Part 2

Since I purchased my P380 from a dealer (paid full whack for a CA compliant model which costs more than the standard P380), he took care of the return to Kahr.
Gun came back from Kahr this week, with the following Tech Service Worksheet Info:

“Reworked Extractor & extractor port”
“New extractor rear pin and recoil springs – lubed and test fired, OK”

I was very excited and took it to the range……
…. click, click, click.
Removed remaining ammo (PMC Bronze) from magazine. Took some new ammo out of the box and loaded both mags. Said the Lord’s prayer and threw in a Hail Mary for good measure.
Click,… then a bang!! Ah, the Lord be praised I thought. Two more bangs then the clicks, some bangs, FTL, etc began again.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I made myself stay there and kept trying. I got the range master to take a look. Fred is ex-LE (25) years and has used larger Kahrs, but stakes his life on his 9mm Glock and .45 Colt, with a Sig 238 as backup. He didn’t have much luck with my factory-repaired, brand new P380 (just purchased last month). I persevered, ejecting stuck rounds, pulling back that stiff slide, etc. until I had finished 2 boxes of ammo (100 rounds). IN all it took 1 hour and 15 minutes. Not an enjoyable time.

The range master came up to me and commiserated, asking me if I really liked the gun or if I’d be open to something else for a CCW.

I took my P380 back to the dealer today. (He also is a great competitive handgun shooter).
He questioned me unbelievingly for about 5 minutes.
Then he went into a back room where they test fire guns.
A few minutes later he returned looking sheepish. In that short time, he’d experienced FTF and the dreaded clicks.
He’s sending it back to Kahr and has offered to do some sort of “exchange” for a different gun.

Unreliable? – YES.
Self defense in an emergency? - NO

[b4uqzme]

Muggsy...that would be "B" .
;)

[mser]

Can't blame you for being unhappy and getting rid of it. I feel extremely fortunate that my P380 and CW380, that now belongs to my son, have been flawless in function and reliability. In my case, the score would be reversed...

Unreliable? - No
Self defense in an emergency? - Yes

[Firemedic]

I feel your frustration. I have 2 Kahrs and each had/has problems!

[kenm]

Thanks Mser and Firemedic,

It's nice to have people who don't go all defensive on their Kahrs - even those who have had problems with theirs.

For a CCW the problems experienced by many on this forum and more on other websites, are completely unacceptable for a gun at this price and that's made here.
A cheap foreign knock-off at half the price MAY be excused, but not the P380.

Once again, all the best to those who now trust their Kahrs to defend them or their loved ones when they need to.

I'm waiting to hear what Kahr tells my dealer - oh how I'd love to have them confirm that I made the right decision in buying the P380 instead of
the Glock 42 or the Sig P238.

More in a week or so.

[O'Dell]

Maybe you read my recent report on my new CM45. If not, I'll summarize. 180 rounds fired both FMJ and HP - no issues even when limp wristing and firing sidewise. An exception you might say? Well, if so, my CW9, CW40, two CW45's, PM45, PM9, and MK40 are/were also exceptions. As Muggsy said, anything built by man can fail. I could tell you horror stories about a 630 BMW that the factory had to buy back, or a Bertone X19 that wouldn't start, or a Camaro Z28 that ate rear ends, but I won't. I've also had a few problem guns over 45+ years, including Colts, Tauruses, Keltecs, and Brownings. However, I've never had an issue with a SIG, HK, S&W, Springfield 1911, or a KAHR! If you like Glocks, fine, buy one. Personally, I'm staying with the guns that work for me.

[RRP]

Personally, I'm staying with the guns that work for me.

And he is doing the same.

[jocko]

Thanks Mser and Firemedic,

It's nice to have people who don't go all defensive on their Kahrs - even those who have had problems with theirs.

For a CCW the problems experienced by many on this forum and more on other websites, are completely unacceptable for a gun at this price and that's made here.
A cheap foreign knock-off at half the price MAY be excused, but not the P380.

Once again, all the best to those who now trust their Kahrs to defend them or their loved ones when they need to.

I'm waiting to hear what Kahr tells my dealer - oh how I'd love to have them confirm that I made the right decision in buying the P380 instead of
the Glock 42 or the Sig P238.

More in a week or so.


the glock 42 is a nice gun, almost as big as my PMJ9, so why buy a 380 i that size. The sig. is a nice 380, again a single action gun, not what I would want in my pocket. Both great guns. but the 380 ikahr when right is uneateable, Period., end of story, size in this case means alot for such a small caliber. When they start tog et as bigt as a kahr PM9, then it is time to ditch thge 380 and buy the 9mm. Just sayin. I lke the feel of the glock 42, but again it wold be a fun gun for me to own and certainly not a gun that I would carry...

[b4uqzme]

You know it's good that people come here to voice their concerns and detail their problems. We all benefit from knowing what issues are out there and how to potentially correct/avoid them.

But.

For those who use their issues to bash the brand...or who feel that because their gun has issues that all Kahrs have issues...or who use this generous forum to advertise another brand instead of Kahr...or who think that because they read about issues that issues are the norm and not the exception...well...I'm thinking your parents didn't raise you right. Just sayin'.

OP. I'm truly sorry that your gun is having issues. None of us would want to be there. But how you handle it is your challenge. Good luck.

[Bill K]

A reliable pocket .380 is a joy to own. It is to bad that the Kahr didn't work out for you. I've been through a similar situation with a different brand pistol and understand your frustration.

[muggsy]

You first mistake was in going through the dealer. You should have contacted Kahr service on your own and dealt with them directly. Do you know for a fact that the dealer explained the problem fully? There are thousands of Kahr P380 in service that function perfectly and are totally reliable. I own one of them. The problem is that no one has any patience and everyone expects instant gratification. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. That's why they put erasers on pencils.

[muggsy]

You know it's good that people come here to voice their concerns and detail their problems. We all benefit from knowing what issues are out there and how to potentially correct/avoid them.

But.

For those who use their issues to bash the brand...or who feel that because their gun has issues that all Kahrs have issues...or who use this generous forum to advertise another brand instead of Kahr...or who think that because they read about issues that issues are the norm and not the exception...well...I'm thinking your parents didn't raise you right. Just sayin'.

OP. I'm truly sorry that your gun is having issues. None of us would want to be there. But how you handle it is your challenge. Good luck.

I know that I keep saying this, but it's worth repeating. Be4uqzme, yer a man after my own heart.

[topgun1953]

It would be nice if we could get definitive answers from Kahr as to why a particular failure took place. They usually just tell you what they did to it. In my case, 3 broken strikers spread across a CW and P , I never specifically asked, "Why?". So I take the blame for not asking! Both guns ran fine otherwise. I figure they might have a difficult time tracking down the root cause in many cases. I love my P380!

[berettabone]

Remember, the Glock 42 is also going through growing pains, so if you have problems with that.....................I wouldn't go to the Glock forum to ***** cause they won't believe you.

[SlowBurn]

It would be nice if we could get definitive answers from Kahr as to why a particular failure took place. They usually just tell you what they did to it. In my case, 3 broken strikers spread across a CW and P , I never specifically asked, "Why?". So I take the blame for not asking! Both guns ran fine otherwise. I figure they might have a difficult time tracking down the root cause in many cases. I love my P380!

It would be nice, but the techs are not designers or engineers and I doubt they look for root causes. Their assigned task is to fix the problem. I think the most efficient way for Kahr factory techs to deal with warranty work is inspect the gun, replace anything it "might" be, make sure the gun is in spec, test fire, return, on to the next. Sometimes its not satisfying, but that's how it is.

[CPTKILLER]

My Kahr MK9 is excellent. Metal pistols are my preference! :Amflag2:

[TheTman]

I've seen a big drop in the amount of complaints on the p380. Used to be at least one a week, now it's not all that common. I think they've improved the quality on the gun, but still a few bad ones slip through. It's very frustratring to get one of these pistols, but Kahr should make it right.

[Jollyrogers]

OP, pretty much describes my experiences with the G42 I bought. Took it back for a PM9 and couldn't be happier and then got a P380 that has run flawless with the exception of Fiocchi FMJ.

[CharlieR]

I'm on my second P380. The first one had a few hiccups the first 300 rounds, but then was very reliable with almost any ammo. Stupid me, I wanted the all-black one to match my PM9, and ordered a new one with night sights. This one is giving me fits. Up to around 600 rounds now, still doesn't return to battery reliably, and the front sight is WAY to tall. Have to aim 2" high at 7 yds to hit where I want. I was hoping it might "settle in" on its own, but I think it's time for it to head back to Kahr. Hopefully they can get it straightened out.

When the front rail on my PM9 broke off, Kahr was very good about it and sent me a FedEx sticker to send it back to them. It came back quickly and was perfect. Hope I don't have to eat a $60.00 FedEx bill myself to get warranty work on this one.

Charlie

P.S. - I also have a Glock 42. Nice gun, and I shoot very well with it. You'll undoubtedly like it, but it is no pocket pistol. I'd give Kahr a shot at getting it right. My first one (should have kept it) was amazingly accurate, and with the CT laser in my pocket, it was perfect for summer. I hope they get this one smoothed out like the old one.

[Cokeman]

I polished the inside of my chamber and it stopped the FRTB thing.

[Bawanna]

I'd carry a sack full of rocks before I wasted my time on a 380!

There I said it. I know everyone hates me but I love myself and that's all that matters and I still don't carry a 380 or anything in my pocket like a girlyman.

The complaints on the 380's are nothing at all like they used to be. I thought for a while Kahr had them all figured out and I believe they did but that doesn't matter. Yours doesn't work and that's all that matters.

Kahr will fix it or replace it but if you've lost faith in it as most probably would have then move on. Life is too short for frustration in the pleasurable things in life like mostly guns.

[b4uqzme]

I know that I keep saying this, but it's worth repeating. Be4uqzme, yer a man after my own heart.

Thanks I guess...:)

I think it comes from growing up a (insert Browns/Indians/Cavs here) fan. Sorta gives you a clarity about what is important in life.

[muggsy]

I'd carry a sack full of rocks before I wasted my time on a 380!

There I said it. I know everyone hates me but I love myself and that's all that matters and I still don't carry a 380 or anything in my pocket like a girlyman.

The complaints on the 380's are nothing at all like they used to be. I thought for a while Kahr had them all figured out and I believe they did but that doesn't matter. Yours doesn't work and that's all that matters.

Kahr will fix it or replace it but if you've lost faith in it as most probably would have then move on. Life is too short for frustration in the pleasurable things in life like mostly guns.

Girlyman!!! Them's fightin words where I come from. I'll bet if I pressed the muzzle of my P380 against yer nose you'd call me Mr. Girlyman. The nerve of some peoples children. The unmitigated gall. :)

[muggsy]

Thanks I guess...:)

I think it comes from growing up a (insert Browns/Indians/Cavs here) fan. Sorta gives you a clarity about what is important in life.

Being a (insert Browns/Indians/Cavs here) fan does have a tendency to do that. :)

[DavidS]

When it comes to merchandise, first impressions are everything. My first Kahr product (MK40) has worked great from day one. I love my MK40 and would have no problem buying another Kahr. But, if I had the same problems as the OP when I bought my MK40, I would likely never buy another Kahr and would never recommend anyone else buy one. I think most people are of the same opinion.
I think I understand where the OP is coming from. I am not very knowledgeable about the issue so I am of no use to him. However, if I could, I would provide as much support to him as I could to get his gun working. Having a successful product that proves reliable over time might remove enough of the bad taste that he might give Kahr another chance in the future. Talking down to the OP and treating him like a child, no matter what your personal opinion is of his initial post, serves no good purpose whatsoever and is actually detrimental.
Rant over.

[b4uqzme]

You are too generous DavidS. Based on the OP's posts, he wasn't coming here for any constructive purpose IMHO. Regardless, I wish him the best.

[kenm]

Thanks to everyone who was supportive.
As I said, I hope that after this 2nd repair by Kahr, my P380 will perform as I'd hoped it would.

I'm disappointed at the hostility of some who posted a response. I was showing the forum posts to my former colleague in the LAPD. He said that a few sounded like the cult members he dealt with during his days in the anti-cult unit decades ago.

In case people think the problems are unusual, below's a link from others who suffered this year.
These problems have to be fixed - Kahr must do something about its quality control.
I am still ready to give it another wholehearted try because if my P380 works, it would be the ideal pocket carry for our warm-weather clothing.

http://ingunowners.com/forums/handguns/337304-new-kahr-p380-need-help-diagnosing-issues.html

[RRP]

God forbid anyone who comes here and bashes our beloved Kahrs. The only thing worse, is when one bashes Kahr and threatens to replace it with a GLOCK.

It's not you, kenm. The response repeats itself over and over again.

[warbird1]

If a Glock is what you think is so great....buy one. I think I hear the Glock site calling you....

[TheLastDaze]

I'd carry a sack full of rocks before I wasted my time on a 380!

There I said it. I know everyone hates me but I love myself and that's all that matters and I still don't carry a 380 or anything in my pocket like a girlyman.

The complaints on the 380's are nothing at all like they used to be. I thought for a while Kahr had them all figured out and I believe they did but that doesn't matter. Yours doesn't work and that's all that matters.

Kahr will fix it or replace it but if you've lost faith in it as most probably would have then move on. Life is too short for frustration in the pleasurable things in life like mostly guns.

best post in the thread..... well said, life is to short ............

[timboy]

I hope they get it straightened out for you but shame on you for going on the internet and whining about your self defense gun not working,I mean jeez its not like your life depends on it or anything.....

[kenm]

I hope they get it straightened out for you but shame on you for going on the internet and whining about your self defense gun not working,I mean jeez its not like your life depends on it or anything.....

Haha, thanks timboy.
Looking forward to Monday.

[Bawanna]

We're pretty tolerant around here and allow criticism' constructive is generally preferred.

One thing we absolutely do not tolerate is personal attack, negative opinions, or slanderish remarks about Mr Moon, his relatives or employees or their families.

Any more an our relationship is over.

[kenm]

Well,xxxxx I completed my tours of duty as a mere Captain - so no "present arms" for me.
As an officer I have fired numerous handguns - large and small from a variety of manufacturers.

It is sad to see the blind xxxxx rush on this forum to aggressively defend faulty Kahrs - they Do fail, and ARE still failing.
Skilled shooters are having problems - LEOs with 25 years experience using various handguns, including 380ACP Walthers and others.
This year's P380 and PM9's have been downright terrible.
Just because Kahr pays for the 3 round-trips to their facility for the umpteenth repair does NOT make it a RELIABLE self-defense weapon.
If this is an honest, fair, forum, then members should accept the truth - this year has seen a rash of failures due to poor quality.
I could supply numerous recent links, but users can Google- even Law Enforcement forums are relating problems with both the 9mm and the 380.

My brand new Kahr P380 failed again after the 2nd return to & repair by Kahr - 5 corrections/replacements were made the first time and 3 the second.
My dealer, a local shooting champ was with me this time at the range (yesterday).
Without my asking him, he offered to return it to his distributor and give me a full refund.

He had kindly brought a brand new G42 which we unboxed at the range. (No P380-required pre-cleaning, grease lubing or fussing over)
It fired over 100 .380ACP rounds faultlessly - 50 of the el cheapo Walmart 'Perfecta' ammo and some PMC and Winchester. It was a great sales presentation - I took delivery of my order - a gun immediately proven to work as promised.
This morning I was at a friend's backyard range (a 15 acre paradise) and we both put another 250+ rounds through the Glock 42, and quite a few through his Springfield XDs (9mm).
Oh, by the way, I'd forgotten to clean my G42 after yesterday's range session, - but it still performed impeccably today.

So, until Kahr fixes their quality control issues, I would encourage all those who had problems with their Kahrs to try the G42 or the Springfield XDs 9mm.

[gb6491]

Well, xxxxx - I completed my tours of duty as a mere Captain - so no "present arms" for me.
As an officer I have fired numerous handguns - large and small from a variety of manufacturers.

It is sad to see the blind xxxxx rush on this forum to aggressively defend faulty Kahrs - they Do fail, and ARE still failing.
Skilled shooters are having problems - LEOs with 25 years experience using various handguns, including 380ACP Walthers and others.
This year's P380 and PM9's have been downright terrible.
Just because Kahr pays for the 3 round-trips to their facility for the umpteenth repair does NOT make it a RELIABLE self-defense weapon.
If this is an honest, fair, forum, then members should accept the truth - this year has seen a rash of failures due to poor quality.
I could supply numerous recent links, but users can Google- even Law Enforcement forums are relating problems with both the 9mm and the 380.

My brand new Kahr P380 failed again after the 2nd return to & repair by Kahr - 5 corrections/replacements were made the first time and 3 the second.
My dealer, a local shooting champ was with me this time at the range (yesterday).
Without my asking him, he offered to return it to his distributor and give me a full refund.

He had kindly brought a brand new G42 which we unboxed at the range. (No P380-required pre-cleaning, grease lubing or fussing over)
It fired over 100 .380ACP rounds faultlessly - 50 of the el cheapo Walmart 'Perfecta' ammo and some PMC and Winchester. It was a great sales presentation - I took delivery of my order - a gun immediately proven to work as promised.
This morning I was at a friend's backyard range (a 15 acre paradise) and we both put another 250+ rounds through the Glock 42, and quite a few through his Springfield XDs (9mm).
Oh, by the way, I'd forgotten to clean my G42 after yesterday's range session, - but it still performed impeccably today.

So, until Kahr fixes their quality control issues, I would encourage all those who had problems with their Kahrs to try the G42 or the Springfield XDs 9mm.
There's no issue with you taking Kahr to task for the problems you are experiencing with their products. The issue is about how you are going about it and your continued references to cults and such. Please see http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1-Forum-House-Rules
"4. Posts containing verbal attacks on the moderators, employees of Kahr Arms, or the company itself will be removed."

It's good to read that you are having success with your larger G42 and your buddy's XD-S. The companies that produce them make excellent products, but the truth is there are folks who have had or are experiencing problems with the G42 and/or the XD-S (not to mention the XD-S recall). Just from personal experience, my XD-S runs fine after some tweaking, but my buddy gave up on his because of light strikes. I'm not knocking your and your friend's pistols, just pointing out that your experience won't always mirror that of others. There's no need to be insulting if they don't.

Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

I would add that no I was not a Colonel. The title was issued by our much respected admin as sort of a southern gentlemen title. I feared at the time that folk may misinterpret it as you have, however you are the first.
So it is I who should salute you as I failed to get in even though I attempted all branches starting with the Marines of course.

As Greg mentioned, we take no issue with constructive criticism of the product, but slandering the owner, company or their agents doesn't fly nor does it do anything to help improve anything.

I thought I had clarified that in my earlier post.

[gb6491]

I would add that no I was not a Colonel. The title was issued by our much respected admin as sort of a southern gentlemen title. I feared at the time that folk may misinterpret it as you have, however you are the first.
So it is I who should salute you as I failed to get in even though I attempted all branches starting with the Marines of course.

As Greg mentioned, we take no issue with constructive criticism of the product, but slandering the owner, company or their agents doesn't fly nor does it do anything to help improve anything.

I thought I had clarified that in my earlier post.
Bawanna,
Nothing wrong with an honorary title, heck R. Lee Ermey is an honorary "Gunnery Sergeant" and no one ever brings up his use of "Gunny" with any disdain.
As an active duty enlisted Marine, I was required to render proper military courtesy to warrant officers and commissioned officers. So, I've made quite a few salutes to officers that I respected, but I've also simply saluted the rank. Now, that I'm a retired Marine, I'm pretty much done with saluting titles, but I'll still give respect for those folks that deserve it. You have mine.
Regards,
Greg

[Firemedic]

I bought the G42 as an impulse buy and had no problems with it but I found it difficult to replace my P380. My P380 is working pretty solid after a really long break-in period. My main problem with it was failure to extract. I recently sold the G42 and I replaced it with the smaller PM9. Unfortunately I had to send it in to Kahr after having it just 1 week. Im hoping Kahr will get it working right when it comes back from their shop.

[ReManG]

Well,xxxxx I completed my tours of duty as a mere Captain - so no "present arms" for me.
As an officer I have fired numerous handguns - large and small from a variety of manufacturers.

It is sad to see the blind xxxxx rush on this forum to aggressively defend faulty Kahrs - they Do fail, and ARE still failing.
Skilled shooters are having problems - LEOs with 25 years experience using various handguns, including 380ACP Walthers and others.
This year's P380 and PM9's have been downright terrible.
Just because Kahr pays for the 3 round-trips to their facility for the umpteenth repair does NOT make it a RELIABLE self-defense weapon.
If this is an honest, fair, forum, then members should accept the truth - this year has seen a rash of failures due to poor quality.
I could supply numerous recent links, but users can Google- even Law Enforcement forums are relating problems with both the 9mm and the 380.

My brand new Kahr P380 failed again after the 2nd return to & repair by Kahr - 5 corrections/replacements were made the first time and 3 the second.
My dealer, a local shooting champ was with me this time at the range (yesterday).
Without my asking him, he offered to return it to his distributor and give me a full refund.

He had kindly brought a brand new G42 which we unboxed at the range. (No P380-required pre-cleaning, grease lubing or fussing over)
It fired over 100 .380ACP rounds faultlessly - 50 of the el cheapo Walmart 'Perfecta' ammo and some PMC and Winchester. It was a great sales presentation - I took delivery of my order - a gun immediately proven to work as promised.
This morning I was at a friend's backyard range (a 15 acre paradise) and we both put another 250+ rounds through the Glock 42, and quite a few through his Springfield XDs (9mm).
Oh, by the way, I'd forgotten to clean my G42 after yesterday's range session, - but it still performed impeccably today.

So, until Kahr fixes their quality control issues, I would encourage all those who had problems with their Kahrs to try the G42 or the Springfield XDs 9mm.

Not an attack, but everything here you preface your expertise with (prior service, as an officer) gives you LESS excuse for the infractions the moderators have pointed out.

Please point out to me where ANYTHING is reliable to the point of zero failures, it does not exist. We hope on the statistical "reliability" of our items, but in fact, their reliability is simply measured in ever greater amounts of time between failures.... I.E. once per million rounds, etc... The one thing that sets us apart in the world is the software between our ears that allows us to move on when things do not turn out like we want. The fact is, if your perfectly reliable Glock fails you, will you stand there looking at it attempting a diagnosis, or act in other ways... Conversely, if someone gave you an "unreliable" pistol and that was all you had to defend yourself, would you not adjust your tactics to be most effective for a "single shot" engagement? I will bet that the G42 cannot be hidden as effectively as a P/CW380, the physical size just will not allow it...

I have to say I am disappointed in your outlook here on this forum, I am simply a member so I have no action against you except to relay my modest opinion to you.

[josp]

OK. My first Glock, G22, blew up in my hands. Glock fussed around and eventually replaced it with a rebuilt gun that was far below their normal quality and the rep took it back when I complained.
Issued a G37 as a patrol Trooper. Worked excellent. State switched to the G21, which didn't last a year as they were having all sorts of issues with them. This was an order of over 4000 guns.
My experience with Kahrs is extensive. Love the polymer series and have owned every one except the PM 40.
Last 5 years until I retired I carried a P45 on the belt and a P380 backup. I know Bawanna's feelings on the 380, but I've seen enough homicides to know it will work.
Still prefer the PM9, but now a days, the 380 is usually carried.
I guess my point is I had issues with a well known product, and I voiced my problems to the company that produced it, not going on Glock talk and bashing the product where it is especially liked.
Everyone has their right to *****, but if asked, I bet the members here could have helped you with your pistol. Hell, they like to help others out.
I still have a couple Kahrs, and a couple Glocks.....

[mbrink]

I have had a Glock 23 since 1992 - never ONE issue. Bought a used P380 when got CCW. Lots of issues, sent to Kahr, and it came back better but still FTF issues. I then bought a CW9. The CW9 was pretty reliable, but sold it since did not want 380, 9mm and 40 ammo to get confused. I then bought a Glock 42. Absolutely no issues. Eats ammo my much massaged (by Factory) P380 would not. I have since bought another Glock 23 (Gen 3) so have one with lazer, and one for trail. It has been great - 100%. My P380 is now on consignment and accessories for sale on this board.

I wanted to love the little P380, but hate it when it fails. If and when I need to use it, it needs to be 100%. You can't beat its size, but reliability beats size. So I lost a lot of money with all the stuff I bought for it, and the 600 rounds I put through it - but had to sell it.

Also, taking apart and reassembling a Glock is very simple. The Kahrs are a pain, especially the 380. Why doesn't Kahr restrain the recoil spring within the rod like Glock, and I assume others? Minor I know, but sure makes life simple.

BTW, in addition to my 3 Glocks, I have 3 Ruger Single Actions. All 6 work every time.

I have many other long guns. Any gun, regardless of manufacturer, needs to be reliable from day one. To Kahr's credit, they replaced a lot of parts and with my request, paid for shipping both ways. But a gun should be reliable from the factory with factory ammo.

[kenm]

I have had a Glock 23 since 1992 - never ONE issue. Bought a used P380 when got CCW. Lots of issues, sent to Kahr, and it came back better but still FTF issues. I then bought a CW9. The CW9 was pretty reliable, but sold it since did not want 380, 9mm and 40 ammo to get confused. I then bought a Glock 42. Absolutely no issues. Eats ammo my much massaged (by Factory) P380 would not. I have since bought another Glock 23 (Gen 3) so have one with lazer, and one for trail. It has been great - 100%. My P380 is now on consignment and accessories for sale on this board.

I wanted to love the little P380, but hate it when it fails. If and when I need to use it, it needs to be 100%. You can't beat its size, but reliability beats size. So I lost a lot of money with all the stuff I bought for it, and the 600 rounds I put through it - but had to sell it.

Also, taking apart and reassembling a Glock is very simple. The Kahrs are a pain, especially the 380. Why doesn't Kahr restrain the recoil spring within the rod like Glock, and I assume others? Minor I know, but sure makes life simple.

BTW, in addition to my 3 Glocks, I have 3 Ruger Single Actions. All 6 work every time.

I have many other long guns. Any gun, regardless of manufacturer, needs to be reliable from day one. To Kahr's credit, they replaced a lot of parts and with my request, paid for shipping both ways. But a gun should be reliable from the factory with factory ammo.

Yes, I agree with you 100%.

My new Glock 42 has performed flawlessly at the range, with over 500 rounds so far, including inexpensive Walmart rounds (Perfecta).

It was such a relief after my sad experience with a new Kahr P380 which had to be sent back twice for repairs and still wouldn't work right - clicks instead of 'bang', FTF, FTE, etc. I really liked the Kahr - good looking, small size, external quality looks, but it was unreliable like yours.

The G42 has been impeccable from day one and is a definite keeper. I feel safe carrying it as a reliable Self Defense CCW.

[mbrink]

Why is this the case? You do not hear of all these issues with other manufactures. I understand Kahr had some QC issues years ago, and likely my gun was from the era. A gun should work. It really reinforces the case for revolvers - or Glocks (and I assume many others I am not familiar with). A gun needs to work when need.

You pull your CCW Kahr and it goes click - "Excuse me robber/rapist, do not shoot met". If you carry a gun, and god forbid pull it, it better work. I just could not trust my 2 Kahrs in that situation. Anything less then 100% reliable during training is not trust worthy when your life depends on it.

[muggsy]

Why is this the case? You do not hear of all these issues with other manufactures. I understand Kahr had some QC issues years ago, and likely my gun was from the era. A gun should work. It really reinforces the case for revolvers - or Glocks (and I assume many others I am not familiar with). A gun needs to work when need.

You pull your CCW Kahr and it goes click - "Excuse me robber/rapist, do not shoot met". If you carry a gun, and god forbid pull it, it better work. I just could not trust my 2 Kahrs in that situation. Anything less then 100% reliable during training is not trust worthy when your life depends on it.

I have a CM9 and a P380. The CM9 has been flawless since the break-in with close to 5,000 rounds through it. Because at anytime any gun can fail I carry a back-up gun. The P380 fills that role. Most of the Kahr owners who experience problems with their guns don't take the time to read the operators manual, don't properly clean and lube their guns, and shoot second rate ammunition through them trying to save a buck. Most of them are neophytes to firearms. You don't hear from the thousands of satisfied Kahr owners, because they have nothing to complain about. I carry a Kahr, because my life does depend on it.

[b4uqzme]

I dunno mugs. I think we all agree that our carry guns need to be as reliable as mechanically possible. It's just that recently there seems to be a rash of posts intent on bashing the home team and promoting other brands vs. discussing issues and asking for help. To me that is disrespectful. And respect has always been a strength of this membership. I hate to see that go.

[mbrink]

I fully respect Kahrs customer service, although I had to "convince" then to pay for shipping to them. I bought two Kahrs based on referrals and their size. I sold one because it did not fill a need, the other because I had issues.

I am not brand loyal in my cars, or guns. Although I must admit if a gun works well for me, I will keep it and buy another. My Glocks, Remingtons rifles and shotguns, and Ruger revolvers have earned my trust - they have never failed.

None of them come with a "200 round" break in before you contact the manufacturer about an issue. That should throw up the red flag to any buyer. Do you buy a car willing to put up with many AAA calls the first few thousand miles.

All that said, like any manufactured product, some off the line have issues. For the price of a Kahr, it is understandable there may be issues given their value price.

I will be happy when my consignment P380 sells and I move on to others. All of you with no issues with Kahrs, which I assume are the vast majority, are lucky. You cant beat the size and price.

[addictedhealer]

My cw9 had 1400 rounds ran and hasn't had a issue. I need to shoot it more and would if ammo didn't cost so much.

I understand your frustrations op. If I had issues like that I wouldn't buy another kahr. Although I probably wouldn't sign up to a forum dedicated to them and start throwing a fit.

Guns like cars, boats and anything else made by people and machines can fail. Look at all the recalls GM is having. Bet you don't log onto a GM forum and throw a fit when ur GM breaks down.

I love my cw9 and I really want a Mk9 Elite 03. Only thing I dislike about kahr guns is their crappy overpriced mags.

[marshal kane]

. . . Only thing I dislike about kahr guns is their crappy overpriced mags. Sorry but I don't see Kahr magazines as being crappy. They're made of quality materials and very nicely done at that if my P9 magazines is any example. You do have a case regarding overpriced if you purchase magazines from Kahr directly, I purchased my extra OEM magazines from MidwayUSA at a 20% discount, shipping additional in either case. Just my two cents, YMMV.

[addictedhealer]

Sorry but I don't see Kahr magazines as being crappy. They're made of quality materials and very nicely done at that if my P9 magazines is any example. You do have a case regarding overpriced if you purchase magazines from Kahr directly, I purchased my extra OEM magazines from MidwayUSA at a 20% discount, shipping additional in either case. Just my two cents, YMMV.

Construction material is A+ but rounds popping out is annoying. Also think part of kahr nosedive issue is the magazines.

[marshal kane]

Rounds popping out of the magazine should never happen. Are you shooting hollow points when your rounds nosedive? I shoot FMJ/ball without issue.

[addictedhealer]

Rounds popping out of the magazine should never happen. Are you shooting hollow points when your rounds nosedive? I shoot FMJ/ball without issue.

You can't throw a kahr mag in your pocket and expect to keep all the rounds in the mag. Not really and issue because I use a kydex mag carrier. I use hollow points and ball. Mine doesn't nose dive when firing just saying it is a issue with kahr pistols. Partly because the feed ramp is so steep, the reason kahr recommends using the slide release.

I am not bashing kahr love my kahr, I'll also own others. What I'm saying the weakness is though is the mags. They don't fit flush to some people standards also.