CW380 What is the fix for the slide not holding open on on empy mag?

[Arkhog]

After a trip back to the factory my feeding and ejection issues with my new CW380 (450 rounds now) seem to be worked out. I did try a box of Perfecta ammunition that was a complete joke. I cannot state in strong enough words that this was horrible in my gun. The rounds did not chamber. The few that did chamber didn't eject. Anyway, I switched back to my favorite ammo, American Eagle FMJ, and all was well.

The gun feeds, fires and ejects every round with Federal, Remington, PMC, and CCI ammunition. My one concern is that the slide only holds open on the empty mag roughly one out of three times. It doesn't matter if I am holding it one-handed or two-handed. It doesn't matter if I have a strong grip or a weak grip. It only locks back on the last round fired when it feels like it.

My question to the forum is simple. When the slide is not held open after the last round is fired what is the solution to the problem?

[RRP]

It only locks back on the last round fired when it feels like it.


...and when your thumb is not in the way of the slide lock lever.

I'm not being a wiseguy. It's a very common issue with these tiny pistols because there's so little room to place our hands. Most of us don't realize our hand comes in contact with the lever during recoil.

Shoot it left-handed. It is locks on an empty mag, you'll know to adjust your grip.

Others will chime in with suggestions to check your mag spring, etc, but this is the first step in the process of elimination.

[Arkhog]

...and when your thumb is not in the way of the slide lock lever.

I'm not being a wiseguy. It's a very common issue with these tiny pistols because there's so little room to place our hands. Most of us don't realize our hand comes in contact with the lever during recoil.


Actually, you are being a wiseguy. I tried your solution before I put the question before the forum. But, you don't know me or my experience level with firearms. Your NRA Instructor instincts kicked in and you assumed that I was a newbie.

I am rapidly growing tired of this .380 and all of the repair work and fluff and buff prep required to make it run. For the love of God does anyone have a fix that does not blame the shooter?

[SlowBurn]

I feel your frustration but RRP wasn't blaming or assuming, just going through the checklist. So on to step 2. Have you tried a different mag?

[RRP]

Good luck to you, Arkhog.

[glock2619]

I'm interested in the solution to this problem with my CW380 also. I could have typed word for word everything he has said so far. Mine had a few minor break-in issues, but they've gone away. The failure of the slide to lock back has me scratching my head though. And yes, I've visited all the posts regarding this problem, and soaked up all of them to no avail. Spring and all appear to be working as they should.

[smokersteve]

Let someone else shoot it. If it still does it, which it probably will, send it back to Kahr on their dime.

[getsome]

Arkhog you can try to tweak the slide release spring just a bit and see if it helps...be sure the torx screw isn't loose but don't over tighten it....The gun may still be tight and just need some more rounds through it.....Not sure what the problem is but RRP was only trying to help you as will any other member here but with only 3 posts and then getting an attitude with a long time member trying to offer advice won't help your pistol or your problem any....Ask nice, be nice and listen to folks who know a thing or two about these little Kahrs and you will get along much better around here.....Good luck to you

[yqtszhj]

Arkhog you can try to tweak the slide release spring just a bit and see if it helps...be sure the torx screw isn't loose but don't over tighten it....

^^^^^ what he said ^^^^^

Try it with an empty mag, rack the slide. If it stays open thats good. Then tweak the spring like getsome said.

[muggsy]

Let's cut to the chase. If you are using weak ammo or limp wrist the pistol the slide won't move back far enough to be captured by the slide stop. If it locks back manually look to your ammo, or yourself as the source of the problem. Muggsy has spoken.

[shlike]

Arkhog you can try to tweak the slide release spring just a bit and see if it helps...be sure the torx screw isn't loose but don't over tighten it....The gun may still be tight and just need some more rounds through it.....Not sure what the problem is but RRP was only trying to help you as will any other member here but with only 3 posts and then getting an attitude with a long time member trying to offer advice won't help your pistol or your problem any....Ask nice, be nice and listen to folks who know a thing or two about these little Kahrs and you will get along much better around here.....Good luck to you

Does anyone know what size torx bit to use for this?

[yqtszhj]

I'm not sure but I have used a small flat blade jewlers screwdriver.

[getsome]

It's a #5 torx bit....Lowes or Home Depot carry them.....The trick is good and snug, not gorilla tight because if you strip it you have messed up the frame...

[glock2619]

While we're cutting to the chase, i'll add that I've tried several kinds of ammo, as I do with all new pistols. And I can assure that I'm not limp-wristing the pistol. I'll get it figured out. Thanks to those with helpful responses!

[yqtszhj]

You've got perseverance. You'll figure it out glock2619. Hey, i just figured out you probably have a glock 26 and 19.

[Arkhog]

The gun does not lock back manually. The ammo is not weak. I am not shooting with a limp wrist. A huge thanks to anyone that offered a real solution without blaming the shooter. The number of posts on a forum is not an indication of real firearms knowledge. Arkhog has spoken.

[spud]

The gun does not lock back manually. The ammo is not weak. I am not shooting with a limp wrist. A huge thanks to anyone that offered a real solution without blaming the shooter. The number of posts on a forum is not an indication of real firearms knowledge. Arkhog has spoken.


Since you you say that it doesn't lock back manually, you may want to check your magazine. I had a six rd magazine that wouldn't lock back the slide manually on a P380. In my case taking apart the magazine and cleaning it out was enough to fix it, might want to check your magazine spring too. Good luck on getting it sorted out.

[Arkhog]

Good suggestion on the magazine cleaning. I have had the mag apart but not recently. I may do that again. I would like to try a different mag but I will need to purchase one. I only have the one that was shipped with the gun.

[gb6491]

Since you you say that it doesn't lock back manually, you may want to check your magazine. I had a six rd magazine that wouldn't lock back the slide manually on a P380. In my case taking apart the magazine and cleaning it out was enough to fix it, might want to check your magazine spring too. Good luck on getting it sorted out.


Good suggestion on the magazine cleaning. I have had the mag apart but not recently. I may do that again. I would like to try a different mag but I will need to purchase one. I only have the one that was shipped with the gun.

I might also suggest to check the orientation of the spring to the follower while you have the mag apart. We've had folks report receiving a new magazine with the spring installed incorrectly.
Correct:
http://i62.tinypic.com/2uqj9mp.jpg
One other thing: if you take the slide off for a better view, then reinstall the slide stop and insert a magazine, does the stop contact the follower shelf or is it more like this?
http://i58.tinypic.com/9t3moj.jpgPhoto by Sohum63 (http://www.kahrtalk.com/member.php?14930-Sohum63)

Regards,
Greg

[glock2619]

Thanks for the encouragement yqt! Yes, I do own those Glocks, as well as several others. Also a Kahr CM9 which has been flawless. And my apologies to Ark for jumping in on his thread. It just seemed That it was the exact problem I was experiencing, and I was eager to see if there was something I was missing. I've searched this problem extensively through this forum as well as several others. New style followers, Kel-tec mag springs, etc. I hope to see this little gun become reliable enough to carry, as I really like the size as compared to the CM9 for when I need the ability for "deep" concealment. If I come up with a remedy that helps to solve it, i'll be sure to share. Most of the threads I've visited regarding this problem seem to be dealing with the slide lock/release spring, but mine seems to be working just as it should.

[yqtszhj]

Good pictures Greg. Those right there should put ark hog right on the problem.

[muggsy]

The gun does not lock back manually. The ammo is not weak. I am not shooting with a limp wrist. A huge thanks to anyone that offered a real solution without blaming the shooter. The number of posts on a forum is not an indication of real firearms knowledge. Arkhog has spoken.

I said if the gun locks back manually the problem is in the ammo or the shooter. If it doesn't lock back manually that's a horse of a different color. Let's try to be a little less sensitive here. I'm about as insensitive as they come. Now, if your gun won't lock back manually the problem is in the slide lock, follower or mag spring. Pressure from the mag spring against the follower should over come the pressure of the slide stop spring causing the slide stop to move upward capturing the slide as it travels fully to the rear and starts to come forward again. If that's not happening it's your job to determine why. Could be a broken follower, weak mag spring, improperly adjusted slide stop spring, etc. I'm really a nice old guy who is here to help you. It's just that I'm an equal opertunity offender and not to be taken seriously most of the time. This is one of the few times I'm being serious. Stick around. You'll learn to love me in no time. Bawanna does. :)

[yqtszhj]

This is getting interesting.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Buzzard45]

After looking at Greg`s picture #2, i have a (feeble) idea. the follower is barely touching the slide release button, if at all.
a simple test and possible fix:
take a piece of tape (thick like duct) and place it on the side of the magazine opposite the slide release, insert the mag. (even if it`s tight,this is only a temporary test) see if this helps engage the slide lock better. If this helps, the (semi)permanent solution might be to bend, ever so slightly the side of the magazine opposite the slide release inward to force the follower to contact the release button better. a bench vise and dowel would be my choice of tools.
DISCLAIMER: I have not done this as i have never needed to.
Disclaimer #2: I don`t have a 380 to test

[muggsy]

This is getting interesting.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

You're becoming a real vouyer, yqtszhj. Don't be afraid to get your feet wet. :) BTW, is yqtszhj pronounced exactly the way it's spelled?

[b4uqzme]

Voyeur? Never been a big fan of the French. But Yahtzee's OK in my book.

[Arkhog]

gb6491.....A great post with pics! Thank You.

[yqtszhj]

BTW, is yqtszhj pronounced exactly the way it's spelled?

Yep, you say it exactly how its spelled.

[Arkhog]

I'm really a nice old guy who is here to help you. It's just that I'm an equal opertunity offender and not to be taken seriously most of the time. This is one of the few times I'm being serious. Stick around. You'll learn to love me in no time. Bawanna does. :)

I read this forum long before I ever attempted my first post. I am a member of several other forums that I read but rarely post anything. I worried a great deal before I made my first post because there are many here that are so loyal to Kahr. I knew that several members would try to blame anyone or anything except the Kahr product. You were one of the ones that I feared the most. Thank you for being a "really nice old guy".

I have the gun and magazine apart tonight. I will check several things.

[yqtszhj]

After looking at Greg`s picture #2, i have a (feeble) idea. the follower is barely touching the slide release button, if at all.
a simple test and possible fix:
take a piece of tape (thick like duct) and place it on the side of the magazine opposite the slide release, insert the mag. (even if it`s tight,this is only a temporary test) see if this helps engage the slide lock better. If this helps, the (semi)permanent solution might be to bend, ever so slightly the side of the magazine opposite the slide release inward to force the follower to contact the release button better. a bench vise and dowel would be my choice of tools.
DISCLAIMER: I have not done this as i have never needed to.
Disclaimer #2: I don`t have a 380 to test

That may be it. That is first one i have heard like that. Most folks have a problem with the nub on the slide release being too long and hitting every round causing pre mature slide lock.

[b4uqzme]

I read this forum long before I ever attempted my first post. I am a member of several other forums that I read but rarely post anything. I worried a great deal before I made my first post because there are many here that are so loyal to Kahr. I knew that several members would try to blame anyone or anything except the Kahr product. You were one of the ones that I feared the most. Thank you for being a "really nice old guy".

I have the gun and magazine apart tonight. I will check several things.

Certainly nothing to fear but of course we're loyal...duh! ;) You getting' her all fixed up right?

[Arkhog]

I poked and prodded everything from the mag springs to the slide lock spring to the follower tab. My best guess for the slide only holding open randomly is that the magazine pivots a great deal in the mag well. I can pivot the magazine by hand toward the slide stop lever and the lever overlaps the tab on the follower very well. If I pivot the mag toward the ejection port then there is almost no tab to push up on the lever because it is out of position. It barely catches on the outside of the tab.

Greg's pictures and Buzzard's comments all fit with what I have found. Sometimes the tab and the lever make good contact. Most of the time they don't. It all depends on how much the mag is torqued inside the mag well. This would explain the randomness of the situation.

[yqtszhj]

That makes one wonder which part is out of spec, the follower, the magazine, or the slide release? If there is a round in the mag does the metal part of the follower stick far enough out to the left of the round to catch the slide release? If not that may be an issue? If the mag is too far left the rounds may contact the slide stop causing problems. Tight tolorances in there.

[gb6491]

I poked and prodded everything from the mag springs to the slide lock spring to the follower tab. My best guess for the slide only holding open randomly is that the magazine pivots a great deal in the mag well. I can pivot the magazine by hand toward the slide stop lever and the lever overlaps the tab on the follower very well. If I pivot the mag toward the ejection port then there is almost no tab to push up on the lever because it is out of position. It barely catches on the outside of the tab.

Greg's pictures and Buzzard's comments all fit with what I have found. Sometimes the tab and the lever make good contact. Most of the time they don't. It all depends on how much the mag is torqued inside the mag well. This would explain the randomness of the situation.
You could probably verify that by putting a piece of mole skin in the magazine well to limit the "play", similar to what this member did with some Velcro: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-%28and-other-poly-45%29-issues-and-fixes&p=67289#post67289
Regards,
Greg

[smokersteve]

Or you could send it back to Kahr on their dime

[muggsy]

I read this forum long before I ever attempted my first post. I am a member of several other forums that I read but rarely post anything. I worried a great deal before I made my first post because there are many here that are so loyal to Kahr. I knew that several members would try to blame anyone or anything except the Kahr product. You were one of the ones that I feared the most. Thank you for being a "really nice old guy".

I have the gun and magazine apart tonight. I will check several things.

You don't have to fear me, Arkhog. I'm all talk and very little action. (Just ask Jocko) If you own a gun you are my friend. I sometimes forget that there is very little voice inflection in the written word and sometimes what I say is taken the wrong way. Yer ok, I'm ok. Welcome aboard. We'll get it fixed. There's very little play in any of the magazines in either of my Kahr pistols. In fact I had, a problem with getting the mags to drop free. You might consider trying a new mag latch. Kahr service would probably send you one for free. It's also possible that you have a bad frame. In which case that's covered by the warranty.

[Arkhog]

Thanks to all for helping. Now that I have seemingly figured out the problem I will more than likely send it in at some point. That would be the guns second visit to Kahr. I am wondering if they didn't create the no lock back issue when they replaced the slide stop. My original problem was mostly feed type issues. Their fix was to replace the slide stop. After the gun came back was the first time I noticed the random or lack of holding open on an empty mag. They may have modified the mag well also. It looks as if some of the polymer is shaved or sanded down inside the magazine well. Maybe they did that to help feeding issues.

The holiday season would be a crappy time to have a gun in transit. I may wait until the shipping season dies down. The first few posts were rough, but, after we got to know each other it seems to have smoothed out. Thanks again.

[big bear]

I had the same problem. I called Kahr and told them what was happening and they sent me a new magazine follower. Works fine now. Just my 2 cents.

[yqtszhj]

I had the same problem. I called Kahr and told them what was happening and they sent me a new magazine follower. Works fine now. Just my 2 cents.
Bingo

[jocko]

Muggsy is right, u won't find a friendlier fourm. all of these guys are here to help, many are knowledgeable. Listen to them try what they suggest but do no serious mods for if all else fails Kahr will make it right. most of the time these issues can be solved by the membership who have already walke din ur shoes down the same path.

[muggsy]

Jocko, are you feeling Ok? You agreed with me and didn't even insult me once in that post. Something is wrong here. :)