PM9 beats Glock 26 in accuracy...Watch this!

[Rob Sanford]

Hey guys, I thought you guys might like this video I did comparing the two...
Any ideas about why? Thanks!

http://youtu.be/yBUqc_ySomA

yBUqc_ySomA

[berettabone]

You don't have enough posts to have a video............................................. .............

[Rob Sanford]

Why not? It's worth checking out!
My Kahr kicks my G-26 butt!!

[berettabone]

Nevermind, it wasn't there when I checked....welcome by the way....................you may want to post that in a Glock forum;)

[yqtszhj]

For me its the same. I shoot all of my kahr pistols better than my glocks. I think because the trigger is smoother. The kahr is SMOOTH all the way till it breaks.

The glock has that almost wierd 2 stage trigger thats not as smooth on a stock glock in my opinion.

[b4uqzme]

I have 3 kahrs now and I consistently shoot them better than most any other pistol. I agree that it must be the trigger. I shoot my revolvers well too.

thanks for the vid!

[GLOCKROCKER]

I call bullsh!t. While it's quite possible the PM9 may be more accurate than the G26, this is in no way shape or form an accuracy test. Put them in a Ransom rest and shoot them. This guy looks like he's got the palsy the way his hand was shaking. He states that the glock always shoots left and also makes the statement that he's adjusted the back sight for windage (what?). Different people shoot different guns better or worse than others due to lots of different factors. (That sentence just confused me!). Personally I shoot my Glocks a tad better than my Kahrs, but like them both. Worthless video.

[Rob Sanford]

I call bullsh!t. While it's quite possible the PM9 may be more accurate than the G26, this is in no way shape or form an accuracy test. Put them in a Ransom rest and shoot them. This guy looks like he's got the palsy the way his hand was shaking. He states that the glock always shoots left and also makes the statement that he's adjusted the back sight for windage (what?). Different people shoot different guns better or worse than others due to lots of different factors. (That sentence just confused me!). Personally I shoot my Glocks a tad better than my Kahrs, but like them both. Worthless video.


Really dude?? "Worthless"??
First of all, I was shooting one-handed so I could hold the camera with my left hand. That did not alter the fact that I had the sites trained exactly on my target when the round was fired. Additionally, if you would listen to the words spoken rather than just look at The pretty pictures (as though it were a coloring book), you may have heard that I tested both firearms on a bench, on a rest, holding the guns perfectly still, with both hands. The Glock still shoots left.
Thanks for watching…...G

[yqtszhj]

I call bullsh!t. While it's quite possible the PM9 may be more accurate than the G26, this is in no way shape or form an accuracy test. Put them in a Ransom rest and shoot them. This guy looks like he's got the palsy the way his hand was shaking. He states that the glock always shoots left and also makes the statement that he's adjusted the back sight for windage (what?). Different people shoot different guns better or worse than others due to lots of different factors. (That sentence just confused me!). Personally I shoot my Glocks a tad better than my Kahrs, but like them both. Worthless video.

I agree pretty much. Different folks shoot different guns differently. I shoot my kahrs better due to the trigger i believe. Now ole jocko says he cant shoot his pm9 worth anything but he shoots his glock good.

The kahr trigger is super smooth though for sure.

[b4uqzme]

^^^^ 2 wrongs don't make a right. Just sayin'. :o

[berettabone]

:popcorn::popcorn:

[GLOCKROCKER]

Perhaps I was a little harsh in my post and for that I apologize. I still maintain that what is shown in the video is not a "test of accuracy" no matter what the firearm is. I also apologize for the "palsy comment" as I didn't realize you were holding the camera with your other hand. As to your "very mature" comments about my intelligence - :tongue:

[kenemoore]

This was not a valid test. My Kahr and Glock both shoot equally well. This guy has a bad glock or a bad shooting technique.

[Pointblank]

How one person shoots one firearm is subjective and has no relevance at all.

[marshal kane]

Rob, your tests results are valid but only valid for you under your test conditions, not all other shooters. You'd need to test fire both your pistols on a Ransom Rest and exclude the human factor to reach any valid conclusion as to which pistol is really more accurate. Then, if you were to extend the firing distance to yards, not feet, you may find still different results. Throw in a change of ammunition brand then bullet weight and shape, more possible different results. Dirty pistols vs. clean pistols, more possibility of different results. Indoor shooting vs. outdoor shooting . . . etc. In short, you'd have to do much more extensive testing before coming out with a blanket statement that the Kahr is more accurate than the Glock. Finally, your conclusion would only be based on the two pistols that you tested, take another two pistols (identical models) and run the tests again and the possibility of different results. The story that any two guns coming off the assembly line side-by-side can shoot differently is sadly true.

[DeeDubya]

I'd say my G27 shoots as well as my PM40. But, the G27 has a larger grip for slightly better control yet the PM40 (in El Paso leather) disappears in my pocket. The G27 will not hide in my jeans pocket. So in reality, it's a moot point if you don't have it.

[marcinstl]

Rob Sanford,
thanks for the video, interesting. I go back and forth over the smooth but vague Kahr trigger vs the hit the wall, bang, rest, bang trigger of a Glock. somedays I'm better with one over the other.
I'm cheap so I only have a CM9. I usually run a 7 round mag in it. push the button, change the mag. easy. what it comes down to, for me, is the G26 loaded is 26oz., the Kahr CM9 is 19oz. (the Kel-Tec P32 w/10+1 is 11oz.).
why is it that everybody wants to take a little pistol and shoot bullseye with it? in a defensive situation you won't have time to use the sights, so why practice with them? little pistols are for quick draw, quick shooting(point shooting) and stopping the threat. practice fast draw and shooting moving targets while your moving away from them.

[DeeDubya]

Approaching the "shooting left" issue politely, this has shed some light on a few of my inconsistencies with a handgun. We all know that jerking the trigger will print low, but here are some others. It doesn't take much pressure in any direction to change the POI.

[TheTman]

You really need a ransom rest, or at the very least a sandbag to steady your shots, to compare accuracy. I have some guns that don't shoot so well for me, but others are more accurate, while my favorites are more maybe more accurate in my hands, than in another shooters hands. My most accurate is a 629 Classic, 6" shooting moderately loaded magnum loads. It loses a bit of accuracy when firing .44 special ammo. I think probably one that would be more accurate is my Dan Wesson Model 15 .357 in the pistol pack, with the 8" barrel installed, but it looks unfired, so I don't want to shoot it. That one is money in the bank. The pistol packs are rapidly disappearing, people are buying them then selling off the individual barrels and parts to make a profit. They should have their butts kicked in my opinion. The man I bought it from said he never shot it, and the guy he bought it from said he only put a cylinder or two through it. I'm saving it for some serious competition, or more likely, for collector value.

[jocko]

I do feel that most kahr owner will fessup and admit that they shoot most of their utter semi's better than their kahrs, certainly the glocks should outshoot most kahr owners (gun for gun). It is a result of the very loooong but smooth kahr trigger system over the glock much shorter and smoothg trigger system. Now if u can say you shoot ur kahr better than ur \glock, IMO tha tis kudos to you and not the gun. I would think one would have to be a total poor shot to not shoot a glock better but again that is based on my expericne3 of owing 3 Kahrs that I shoot well at 7 yards but my groups don't even compoare to whatI can do with my G19 at 7 yards. There has to be a reason for that, as it is the same shooter, same distance, just two complete different trigger systems. just my 21 cents on this but I have been on here since day one and I have seen hundreds of posted taregets bny kahr owners and very very very few have I seen one holers at 7-10 yards, I honestly can say that with my G19 at 7-10 yards I can touch holes, with no problem, just not so with any of my kahrs. For me I love my kahrs because my PMJ9 goes with me every day in my front pockejt. I feel totally safe with it, I feel it can do the job easily if needed. If glock made a gun in weight and size with the features of my kahr, with a trigger system that can make me a bnetter sooter. It would be in my pocket

I'm not married top any gun, I carry what I think is best for me at this time. not looking to impress anyone with it and certaily not for me a target gun either. I acce3pt all of that with my kahrs

[jocko]

Rob Sanford,
thanks for the video, interesting. I go back and forth over the smooth but vague Kahr trigger vs the hit the wall, bang, rest, bang trigger of a Glock. somedays I'm better with one over the other.
I'm cheap so I only have a CM9. I usually run a 7 round mag in it. push the button, change the mag. easy. what it comes down to, for me, is the G26 loaded is 26oz., the Kahr CM9 is 19oz. (the Kel-Tec P32 w/10+1 is 11oz.).
why is it that everybody wants to take a little pistol and shoot bullseye with it? in a defensive situation you won't have time to use the sights, so why practice with them? little pistols are for quick draw, quick shooting(point shooting) and stopping the threat. practice fast draw and shooting moving targets while your moving away from them.

u make a good point there with ur comments. MY PMJ9 tuned and modified for weith loaded with corbon powerball weight 18 ounces. If I can't do it in 7 rounds then I am probalby already dead. If I have to dress to carry then more than likelyt it will sit home more often than not and that is not good. It only takes that ONE TIME. I carry my PMJ9 in my jeans front pocket 24/7 with zero worrys, not a fast draw area as u know but again I do feel the thing we have over as cop is that the BG doesn't really anticipate that we are carrying, where as a uniformed cop is profiled much faster. HE HAS A GUN Just sayin

[b4uqzme]

I think free-hand/bullseye shooting has its relevance. It's good training for trigger control and your groups are a good measure of your improvements. OP's video, while not scientific, is a good report/reminder that, for some people, Kahrs can be very accurate free hand (I'm one of them). I'm with marcinstl though: just bullseye shooting is not enough. You ALSO need to practice defensive shooting in defensive situations. Note that I said ALSO. You need both IMHO.

[jocko]

I think free-hand/bullseye shooting has its relevance. It's good training for trigger control and your groups are a good measure of your improvements. OP's video, while not scientific, is a good report/reminder that, for some people, Kahrs can be very accurate free hand (I'm one of them). I'm with marcinstl though: just bullseye shooting is not enough. You ALSO need to practice defensive shooting in defensive situations. Note that I said ALSO. You need both IMHO.

good point. at my age I just don't do those drills, actually no place within 150 miles of here that even offers this type of shooting drills. so I am guilty of a not doer. Again my guess is that the majority are in my category to. I might someday regretit to but again I carry but I am not paranoid. I still feel the elimite of surprise is what we as civilians have over the BG. They realy don't want to have any part with anyone who they knows is carrying. sure it happens but most BG are chicken sh!t at best, they will try to take advantage of those un prepared. older people for sure. Practice does not make perfect but again perfect practice does. To me as long as my PMJ9 is in my front pocket I feel safer than most out there, I am just not gonna get macho over it, good common sense will keep most of us out of harms way, I think.

[Bill K]

Enjoyed watching and listening to the video, thanks.

Shot my G26 better than my Kahr when I first got the PM9. Don't know which I'd be shooting better now as it didn't take long for the PM9 to push the G26 aside for carry. Sold the G26, which I really did like, because I'm not into range only guns.

[Bawanna]

Side by side I'd shoot much better with the Glock, the trigger is just shorter and cleaner and all things being equal it's gonna be more accurate.

That being said I choose the Kahr all day every day. For my needs it fills the bill nicely and the size is so much nicer and more convenient, there's no contest.

[jocko]

Side by side I'd shoot much better with the Glock, the trigger is just shorter and cleaner and all things being equal it's gonna be more accurate.

That being said I choose the Kahr all day every day. For my needs it fills the bill nicely and the size is so much nicer and more convenient, there's no contest.

probably just kill syou to have to admit that what ol jocko said is true--huh??? Kahrs are my fvborite but not my most accurate by any means, actually in all my semi's it is the worse, edcept my kel teks, buty they are in their own league asu well know. Just sayin

[Bawanna]

No sir, I no longer feel remorse agreeing with you. I find myself in awe of your wisdom and experience and feel very thankful that you take the time out of your busy day biking and chasing sheep to share it with the undeserving such as myself.
Nothing but respect my friend.

Crap I think there's too much sugar in my diet or something.

[jocko]

No sir, I no longer feel remorse agreeing with you. I find myself in awe of your wisdom and experience and feel very thankful that you take the time out of your busy day biking and chasing sheep to share it with the undeserving such as myself.
Nothing but respect my friend.

Crap I think there's too much sugar in my diet or something.

I asm having this framed and tripple matted along with the phoo of u showingmy Pink J frame grips, this will all sit above my office desk, next to the photo of Monica thanking wild Bill for all the things he has done for her career AND SIGNED EVEN BY WILD bILL, SAYING I ouldnot have done this without ur help. Both mean so much to ol jocko. PRICELESS. jUST SAYIN

[O'Dell]

I shoot my Kahrs at least as accurately as my larger pistols including the 1911's. Here are pictures of three of my targets. all shots were at 10 to 12 yards.

BTW, i can't hit the broad side of a barn with a Glock. the grips are too thick and the angle is wrong for me.

[jocko]

OK, ur of the minorty, nice shooting. I can do that with my hole punch and leave leave my offce. that is awfully good shooting though, just sayin. I could not do that, if it meant world peace.

It blows my mind tha thtey are callingh off school next week in ferguson over this damn grand jury sh!t. WTF. Brown, is on tape robbing the convenience store, He is on medicala records of having Masry Jane in his system. Am I missing sumpin here. Do u think they would calloff school in my home town of ol jocko was shot by a white police offcer and had done what Brtown did???

They gonna riot, the ferguson police know it, the ferguson peop0le know it, Thats wat they do best. Just sayin

[Bawanna]

I'm sure the kids dig it. When I was in school, any reason to get a day off school was a celebration.

Probably wouldn't be many kids in school anyhow, parents would keep them home so they can protest/riot too.

Keep it in the family as it were.

[jocko]

did u finish school, ur grammar lacks alot, just sayin

[jocko]

I can just picture some of the ferguson plice oficers leaving for work today, and his wife yelling at him, "honey, u forgot ur rubber bullits".. I get a kick out of racist leader eric holder asking the national guard to tone down their showing, so I heard that all NG peole will be dressed in suit and tie and their leader will have a tux on with a cumberrbun and a white flower in his coat. That should appease holder Just sayin

[jocko]

I'm sure the kids dig it. When I was in school, any reason to get a day off school was a celebration.

Probably wouldn't be many kids in school anyhow, parents would keep them home so they can protest/riot too.

Keep it in the family as it were.

they only go to the 5th grade there and then it is off to prison. Justy sayin they all study the 2 R's , runnin and rioting

[GROTMAN]

[QUOTE=Bawanna;323759]No sir, I no longer feel remorse agreeing with you. I find myself in awe of your wisdom and experience and feel very thankful that you take the time out of your busy day biking and chasing sheep to share it with the undeserving such as myself.
Nothing but respect my friend.

:eek: Who are you and what did you do to the real Bawanna ?

[Bawanna]

He's alive for now! I'm holding him for ransom!

Does 5 bucks in small bills seem like too much?

[GROTMAN]

Side by side I'd shoot much better with the Glock, the trigger is just shorter and cleaner and all things being equal it's gonna be more accurate.

That being said I choose the Kahr all day every day. For my needs it fills the bill nicely and the size is so much nicer and more convenient, there's no contest.

I agree wholeheartedly. Not saying the Glock is more accurate but I am much more accurate with my G19 than I am with my pm9. BUT I'm accurate ENOUGH with the pm9, and would not want to carry the Glock for any length of time. So the pm9 fits my needs nicely and so no contest for me which one I'll carry.

[GROTMAN]

He's alive for now! I'm holding him for ransom!

Does 5 bucks in small bills seem like too much?

I'll try to raise the money from all the Kahrtalk members.. wouldn't hold out too much hope though :(

[Bawanna]

Maybe 3?

[kenemoore]

Woo hooo hooo I got a dollar for ya!

[b4uqzme]

^^^^ Lemme check the wife's penny jar....

[mser]

Heed my warning...

[pinehtr]

I call bullsh!t. While it's quite possible the PM9 may be more accurate than the G26, this is in no way shape or form an accuracy test. Put them in a Ransom rest and shoot them. This guy looks like he's got the palsy the way his hand was shaking. He states that the glock always shoots left and also makes the statement that he's adjusted the back sight for windage (what?). Different people shoot different guns better or worse than others due to lots of different factors. (That sentence just confused me!). Personally I shoot my Glocks a tad better than my Kahrs, but like them both. Worthless video.

I'm with you.

[Rob Sanford]

After hundreds of rounds, my G26 still shoots left, outside 20 feet. My Kahr PM9 shoots straight.
I only wish the factory would make a magazine with the fit and finish the gun deserves...especially around the base plate.

[addictedhealer]

I call bullsh!t. While it's quite possible the PM9 may be more accurate than the G26, this is in no way shape or form an accuracy test. Put them in a Ransom rest and shoot them. This guy looks like he's got the palsy the way his hand was shaking. He states that the glock always shoots left and also makes the statement that he's adjusted the back sight for windage (what?). Different people shoot different guns better or worse than others due to lots of different factors. (That sentence just confused me!). Personally I shoot my Glocks a tad better than my Kahrs, but like them both. Worthless video.

What a dick.

No apologies coming from me. Getting upset bashing a members video then retracts after he finds out it is a fellow member.

Not surprising coming from a Glock owner......;)

[340pd]

Aside from some bashing, this is an interesting thread.

Locked in a vice, I doubt there is much difference in accuracy at SD distances among any manufacturer.

So, it comes down to what points and shoots best for each individual. That should determine which gun is most effective, thus accurate.

Owning a few different guns that I consider carry guns, I have narrowed my effective semi auto carry guns down to a PM9 and a relatively new to the lineup, a Glock 19.

I have come to the conclusion that I shoot more accurately rapid fire, when I have a bit of slack in the trigger that I can start taking up during recovery from recoil. My small 1911's and even my Shield does not permit me that luxury.

Maybe this old thought fits here,

"The accuracy of the second shot is proportional to the disturbance caused by the first shot"

[berettabone]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[jocko]

its a fun thread, but I can't prove or disprovbe it, but my bet would be that 8 out of 10 people would shoot a G19 better than a kahr. I do shoot my K9 better than my MJ9 but certainly never as good as I shot my G19, coure thats me,UMMV. viced up or shgooters rest, Kahrs will put them in the skame hole, I would never say the gun had anything inferi0or in it, or I would not carry it 24/7, but their loooooog trigger system is the death blow to manyt kahgr owners, who just never marry up to that . Some shooters are just naturalyt good shooters but I do feel that even at that, give Todd Jarrett a G19 and a K9 and he will still shoot circles around the K9. My G19 just continued to amaze me when I would shoot it, . I know I am not a good shot but ths gun made me feel good when walking off the range. All that sh!t being said my PMJ9 is in my front pocket 24/7. There is a reason for that..

[SmokyT]

Actually I own a PM9 and a G26, and I like them both. But I'm very much determined to retire my G26 from the CCW duty and replace it with my PM9 - not because the PM9 is more accurate than the G26, but simply because 10+1 rounds feels just too heavy and bulky to me now...

[davcar45]

......Kahr's will put them in the same hole..... but their loooooog trigger system is the death blow to many Kahr owners, who just never marry up to that .

I agree with this. I'm having the issue myself. My shots at 7 yards are in a pretty good group but consistently to the left about an inch or so. I know it is trigger control because the sights are dead center in the slide. No mechanical issue would cause this I wouldn't think. I've only shot about 250 rounds or so through mine though, so still have hopes I can work it out. This MK9 is the first and only Kahr I've ever had and as someone who owns or has owned every major brand handgun out there, I can say there is nothing else like the Kahr trigger.

[davcar45]

Rob what are you talking about in the video when you say "you can't stand the way you have to reload the magazine and release it with your thumb" what are you talking about? About the 6:30 mark of the video.

[O'Dell]

Hey Jocko, I'm one of the 'Two'! I can't shoot a Glock worth a darn, but I have no problems with Kahrs, SIG's, HK's, S&W's, Springfields, Kimbers, etc.

[340pd]

Hey Jocko, I'm one of the 'Two'! I can't shoot a Glock worth a darn, but I have no problems with Kahrs, SIG's, HK's, S&W's, Springfields, Kimbers, etc.

Consider trying a Grip Force Adapter. A low cost addition that may help mitigate the Glock's tendency to naturally point muzzle high for a lot of shooters.

http://www.gripforceproducts.com/

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t320/gnystrom_photos/bc1c5fe7-cd16-4c62-a8bf-d61fa650a240_zpsdcaaeb7a.jpg

[jocko]

Hey Jocko, I'm one of the 'Two'! I can't shoot a Glock worth a darn, but I have no problems with Kahrs, SIG's, HK's, S&W's, Springfields, Kimbers, etc.

but ur strange anyhow, so u don't count.

I just got a picture today from Muggsy of a gal he used to date in high school She was mexican, and she has no legs, Her name was cuntswaylo!!

[jocko]

Hey Jocko, I'm one of the 'Two'! I can't shoot a Glock worth a darn, but I have no problems with Kahrs, SIG's, HK's, S&W's, Springfields, Kimbers, etc.

u didn't mention kel tec's. IMO ur not a man until you have owned kel tek's. Just sayin

[jocko]

Consider trying a Grip Force Adapter. A low cost addition that may help mitigate the Glock's tendency to naturally point muzzle high for a lot of shooters.

http://www.gripforceproducts.com/

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t320/gnystrom_photos/bc1c5fe7-cd16-4c62-a8bf-d61fa650a240_zpsdcaaeb7a.jpg


I had a nice set of Dawson fiber option ront and rear adjustab le sites on my G19.It was a real shooter in the hands of a blind man even. I know even O'Dell co;uld shoot circles around all those utter guns he named even with my G19..

[berettabone]

Hey Jocko, I'm one of the 'Two'! I can't shoot a Glock worth a darn, but I have no problems with Kahrs, SIG's, HK's, S&W's, Springfields, Kimbers, etc.
You and me both..........feels like your hanging on to a oversize bar of soap.............................

[sparkyfender]

Interesting.

Both are good guns, but I do shoot GLOCKs better than I shoot Kahrs.