Sig Sauer?

[DavidR]

I read a news report that said Officer Wilson testified that he experienced several clicks instead of bangs during his altercation with Michael Brown. The gun pictured was a Sig Sauer.

Light primer strikes?


Dave

[berettabone]

Stupid cop, not having his firearm in proper working order............................................. ......

[downtownv]

Sig Sauer "To Hell and Back Reliabilty" mugs available...
pm me for any interests.

[CJB]

Perhaps it was his bollocks quaking?

[marcinstl]

if it was any kind of a DA/SA duty pistol(Sig, Beretta, etc.) it has a decocker/safety lever, where was the lever?
"Condition 2 refers to traditional Double Action / Single Action pistol with a round in the chamber, the hammer down and the safety on." that's not to handy, huh?
see, that's why we carry Kahr's, no levers, just the safety between our ears and a nice, long trigger. mine has always fired when trigger is pulled. hmmmph! I suppose you could say the same for a Glock.

[berettabone]

if it was any kind of a DA/SA duty pistol(Sig, Beretta, etc.) it has a decocker/safety lever, where was the lever?
"Condition 2 refers to traditional Double Action / Single Action pistol with a round in the chamber, the hammer down and the safety on." that's not to handy, huh?
see, that's why we carry Kahr's, no levers, just the safety between our ears and a nice, long trigger. mine has always fired when trigger is pulled. hmmmph! I suppose you could say the same for a Glock.

That's why I sometimes carry my Sig or my Beretta...............they both have safety/decocker......................I don't use either...........................just because you have them, doesn't mean you have to use them. If you drop them, they won't go off. Either one of them is just as safe, and just a fast as a Kahr, and if you know how to use them, just as deadly. If I was LE, it's the only way I would be carrying., especially in that town. You can also carry them cocked and locked, like a 1911. That's why I like them..............sssssssooooooooooooooooo many choices. The triggers in single action are a thing of beauty.

[Bawanna]

Sadly soooo many choices often times leads to confusion or errors at the most inopportune times.
When we carried Beretta 92's they were DA/SA. The officers usually left the safety off in the fire position.
Frequently the safety would get pushed into the safe position, thankfully always at training. From there on they conditioned the officers to sweep the safety regardless if they use it or not.

When we transitioned to 40's (also Beretta's) we opted for Decock only safety which eliminated that issue.

On my 3rd and hopefully final dept transition we went to Glock 21's so it's all moot now anyhow.

One reason I like the 1911 is the safety is as it should be, a natural sweep down to fire, not an unnatural sweep up like most DA/SA's. I ride my thumb on the safety so any kind of tense squeeze almost automatically sweeps it off.

I'm a big believer in staying consistent, very repetitive habits to eliminate most of the consious thought process.
I'm kind of weak in the consious thought process arena so I need all the help I can get.

[berettabone]

I agree, but when I carry those types of firearms, they are no different to me than any others................pull out firearm, depress trigger, bullet comes out............why even fiddle with any kind of safety. They are safe to carry with the hammer down. That's why it's a carry problem for some, when dealing with 1911's. We don't want to sweep a safety, we want to eliminate another thing to do. If your safety gets pushed into another position, maybe it's time to change your holster choice. All of these firearms can be carried, unholstered, and fired, without any other functions to do. 1911's have an extra step. All of those firearms can be consistent, with each other. All except a 1911.

[muggsy]

That's why I carry a Kahr. I was never much good at the two-step. I still find myself occasionally sweeping off the safety that isn't there. Too many years of carrying a heavy 1911. That's possibly why I lean to the right as well. :)

[marcinstl]

leaning to the right, hehehehe. I have an old Ruger P89 (40 something ounces loaded), I couldn't carry that all day. it's DA/SA and it's a "house gun", loaded, one in the chamber and decocked but safety off. if I need it, the first shot is the long DA pull ("the warning shot") and then it's down to business with 15 SA shots. bought that used (almost new condition) for $250. my favorite gun store has a P95 in the case for $300. great guns for home or range. for me, a carry gun has to be slim, light and a no-brainer---- Kahr and/or Kel-Tec.

[O'Dell]

One reason I like the 1911 is the safety is as it should be, a natural sweep down to fire, not an unnatural sweep up like most DA/SA's. I ride my thumb on the safety so any kind of tense squeeze almost automatically sweeps it off.


My HK's also sweep down to fire. They can also be carried "cocked and locked" like a 1911. The safety is the principle reason I prefer the HK's to SIG's. The only pistols I have owned that I remember having a backwards safety, up to fire, are the 3rd gen S&W's.

[CJB]

Aside from the armchair prognosticating..... Published details of the grand jury testimony state that while Brown fought to get Wilson's sidearm, Wilson tried to pull the trigger twice, and got the unfavorable response known as "click no bang".

I find this reasonable, considering two individuals were fighting over the same pistol. If the the slide had been withdrawn during the struggle, the scenario is certainly within the realm of my own experience with the mechanism.

This was not some range trip or funhouse timed event. Life, and death, fighting over the weapon... all bets off in those cases, and almost anything can happen.

[CJB]

And.... to remind folks: Just how sh!tty a handgun against an attacker, until that attacker is shot in the head. You want to stop someone at close range? Think in terms of a twelve gauge with buckshot, to the upper torso.... or head.

[ltxi]

I like Sig's. Always have. I regret that, other than their 1911 pattern guns, they don't work for me.

[Bawanna]

Same here. I just love the 220 SAS but just don't work for me.

[Barth]

My stamped steel slide nickle plated P220 45 isn't going anywhere.
Same with my P239 357 Sig.
But when comparing weight and capacity with my like HKs (USPT45 / P2000 357 Sig)?
Well for now the Sigs live in the safe.

Full Disclosure:
Other than a tuned 1911 - I shoot the USPT45 better than any semi-auto.

[b4uqzme]

My HK's also sweep down to fire. They can also be carried "cocked and locked" like a 1911. The safety is the principle reason I prefer the HK's to SIG's. The only pistols I have owned that I remember having a backwards safety, up to fire, are the 3rd gen S&W's.

And the LCI/enhanced trigger/safety Kahr. ;)

[zamboni]

Aside from the armchair prognosticating..... Published details of the grand jury testimony state that while Brown fought to get Wilson's sidearm, Wilson tried to pull the trigger twice, and got the unfavorable response known as "click no bang".

I find this reasonable, considering two individuals were fighting over the same pistol. If the the slide had been withdrawn during the struggle, the scenario is certainly within the realm of my own experience with the mechanism.

This was not some range trip or funhouse timed event. Life, and death, fighting over the weapon... all bets off in those cases, and almost anything can happen.

That was my thought as well, when I heard it. Not the gun's fault.

[O'Dell]

And the LCI/enhanced trigger/safety Kahr. ;)

Really? I didn't know that. I've had eight Kahrs, but never one with a safety.

[O'Dell]

My stamped steel slide nickle plated P220 45 isn't going anywhere.
Same with my P239 357 Sig.
But when comparing weight and capacity with my like HKs (USPT45 / P2000 357 Sig)?
Well for now the Sigs live in the safe.

Full Disclosure:
Other than a tuned 1911 - I shoot the USPT45 better than any semi-auto.



Well, my carbon steel, nickle plated P220 isn't either. Neither is my HK45C, compact SS USP 45 or FS USP 40. The older P220's like ours aren't much heavier than the HK's if any at all. The factory empty weight is 25.7 ozs, if my memory is still working at this hour.

[downtownv]

He announced on ABC-TV that Brown's hand was on the hammer, the skin tissue prevented the primer contact...

[marcinstl]

this Ferguson thing got me to thinking about the "militarization" of US police dept.'s cops are only human and gotta love toys like the rest of this, so even though assault rifles, army pistols, tanks, etc. are cool, what good are they to the average cop on the street? a Sig 220 might work for the Swiss army, but was it working for Wilson? "wrasling" in the police car- where was Wilson's knife, why didn't Wilson go for his ankle gun? was Wilson trained or ready for any of this?
I was at the range one day and watched a city cop practice with her issued Beretta (DA only) 92, it was qualifying time and she was trying to get rounds on paper. she wasn't into shooting and hadn't shot anything to compare with her Beretta, she worked in an office and the gun was basically cosmetic, part of the required uniform. off duty, she said she carried pepper spray.

[DanTana]

From the accounts I read, the slide had been pushed back slightly out of battery disengaging the trigger mechanism. Try this on nearly any weapon and the same thing will result, Brown had his hand on the slide, and pushed it slightly back, the wound he received on his hand was when Officer Wilson was able to get a shot off and I believe the slide cycling had caused the injury to his hand. Since the Sig P229 Officer Wilson had is a DA/SA trigger, he was able to continue pulling the trigger to attempt to fire it. I just purchased a P229R myself a few weeks ago, but I haven't tried pushing the slide slightly out of battery to test the trigger, I know others have and the results were the same, unable to fire the weapon. Not a malfunction of the gun. I believe a Kahr will react the same if you push the slide out of battery slightly. The trigger disengages and it will not fire.

[marshal kane]

Sooo many new SIG models coming out lately so I may be a bit behind on what I have to say. The SIG P229 doesn't have a safety per se. It has a decocker which is shown on the left side of the pistol between the take-down lever and slide lock. The decocker will lower the hammer without discharging the round in the chamber but the pistol will still fire double action if the trigger is squeezed after which it reverts to single action. Why it took Wilson three squeezes of the trigger to fire his first round, I don't know but I lean towards the theory that Brown's hand was over the slide possibly moving it in and out of battery. Wilson admits that this was the first time he had to fire his pistol at an assailant so I'm sure he was high on adrenaline while fighting to stay alive. At 6'4" and 300 lbs., Brown was a BIG STRONG dude who could have become rich playing for the NFL.

[johnh]

Could be Brown was intentionally trying to get the gun out of battery. When I went through the academy way back in the early 90s, one of the instructors told us he had seen surveillance video from prisons of inmates practicing the hand movements to disable firearms from the business end. Making a V with their hand and jamming it down, stripping the gun forward, etc.. Brown may have been doing the same thing given his chosen "vocation". Even more evidence that the dirt bag got what he had coming.

[berettabone]

Carry with confidence.......................

[muggsy]

this Ferguson thing got me to thinking about the "militarization" of US police dept.'s cops are only human and gotta love toys like the rest of this, so even though assault rifles, army pistols, tanks, etc. are cool, what good are they to the average cop on the street? a Sig 220 might work for the Swiss army, but was it working for Wilson? "wrasling" in the police car- where was Wilson's knife, why didn't Wilson go for his ankle gun? was Wilson trained or ready for any of this?

I wasn't there but, If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the the officer didn't go for his ankle gun, knife, baton, taser or any other weapon, because at the time his hand were full of a very large negro. As to whether he was sufficiently trained and ready, the perp is dead and he's not. I'd say that he done good under the circumstances.

[berettabone]

I'd say he done real good.................1,222,674, 971 to go............................................:rol leyes:

[DeaconKC]

marc, you obviously have never been in a life or death fight with a violent criminal or you would realize that you don't have the time/luxury of back up weapons. It means you are using whatever is at hand to survive. I speak from unpleasant personal experience on this.

[marcinstl]

I was in the Army from 65 to 67 and have some experience. when I'm going somewhere in the car the pistol is out of the holster and where I can get to it. if I'm walking across a parking lot my hand is on the gun. if I'm sitting on the toilet, a gun is next to the roll of paper. cops who have only a duty pistol in a dept. approved retention holster, shotgun in the trunk, need to rethink this and come up with a more workable strategy. every village cop in the 92 little burgs that ring St.Louis should know that they could be the next officer in trouble and plan for the worst (hope for the best). personally, I would look at a DA/SA pistol in a retention holster as a backup gun.
Wilson is driving along, sees the 2 guys walking up the middle of the road, stops and tells them to get on the sidewalk, Brown tells him to F*** off and continues walking, Wilson backs up the patrol car past them and blocks the road, his only weapon still holstered. WTF!? is up with that? a pistol can always be reholstered if it isn't needed.
I'm not saying Wilson wouldn't have shot Brown, just that Wilson didn't need to take a couple of hard punches in the head to finally realize where he was and who he was dealing with.

[340pd]

Wilson's gun did not malfunction. Either something got in between the hammer and the firing pin, or the gun was slightly out of battery when the trigger was pulled. Having the second strike capability of the P229 firearm undoubtedly saved is life. At the range I work at, I have seen air marshals fire thousands of 357 Sig rounds through 229's without a failure. One great duty gun