New (to me) CM9, issues.

[ettercap]

Hey guys,

Picked up a used CM9 a couple of days ago and so far I've had enough issues with it that I'm worried.

Can you shed any light on these issues?

1. Came with 2 recoil guide rods. With both, I can make the weapon come out of battery by pushing it slightly (as referenced here (http://www.thebangswitch.com/flaw-in-the-kahr-cm9/)). It gets stuck on the button thing. It looks like the recoil spring is pushing the button out at a weird angle and it's getting caught on the hole for it in the slide. This problem seems to go away if I point the open end of the spring in a specific direction but it's definitely trial and error. Is this normal? It seems VERY finicky...

2. There's a kind of 'hitch' when I pull the slide back — like it's catching on something — just as the barrel begins to tilt. Pulling the slide back is NOT smooth. Is that normal?

3. When I load a full magazine and pull back the slide, the slide locks. I can only fix this by pulling back the slide to its maximum point and hitting the mag release. This happens with both my 6rd and 7rd mags. Oddly if I slingshot the slide hard enough I can occasionally get it to feed OK but when I load a new mag and hit the slide lock it feels like it's catching something as it feeds.

4. When I went to the range to put some rounds through it, I had (in 150rds) 4 malfunctions serious enough for me to have to take it apart. All of them revolved around casings getting stuck in the chamber. I couldn't move the slide back or move it forward; the only way I could release the cartridge was to use a key to push it down and out of the mag well. Taking it apart and adjusting the position of the recoil guide spring seemed to fix it, but it doesn't fill me with confidence.

Ultimately, I spent a fair amount of money on this gun and although I really love its form factor, ergonomics and looks. I definitely don't trust it with my life at this point.

Can anyone shed some light on the issues I'm having, and tell me whether Kahr is likely to charge me to fix these issues since I'm not the original owner? I appreciate that it may no longer be in warranty but as far as I am concerned this pistol is not up to spec.

Many thanks

[Firemedic]

Unfortunately sounds like you picked up someone else's headache. Being that there was 2 guide rods the previous owner probably already tried to remedy its issues. I'd call Kahr because if it's within 5 years from manufacture it's still under warranty. Send it in to have them get it right.

[MBSL500]

Kahr's warranty only applies to the original purchaser.
I've passed over some good deals on Kahrs but because of their rather questionable reliability and the fact that I would have no warranty, I passed
on all of them.
Hopefully, Kahr will work with the OP and repair his gun at no charge.

[Alfonse]

First, Kahr suggests you use the slide release on a full magazine to let the slide go forward. If you want to ride the slide forward, remove one round from the magazine. You can find it the the FAQs here: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp#q10

As for issue number 1, if it loads fine using the slide release above and operates correctly, there is no problem. The "flaw" described in your link seems silly to me. Don't push the slide back and you won't have an issue.

Issue 2 sounds normal to me. Issue three, see "use the slide release" above. Kahrs are very stiff and you are probably not pulling it back far enough. Eventually you will probably be able to "slingshot" it, when the guns loosens up a bit and you get used to it.

Go shoot it and enjoy it. I think you are worrying to much. Oh, if you are not already be sure to use quality factory ammo, no reloads, steel, or aluminum cases to gauge the pistol's reliability.

As for the previous post, he has had an ax to grind for months if not years. He imagines problems too and then tries to recruit others to his way of thinking.

[ettercap]

First, Kahr suggests you use the slide release on a full magazine to let the slide go forward. If you want to ride the slide forward, remove one round from the magazine. You can find it the the FAQs here: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp#q10

As for issue number 1, if it loads fine using the slide release above and operates correctly, there is no problem. The "flaw" described in your link seems silly to me. Don't push the slide back and you won't have an issue.

With all due respect, I don't expect a gun that retails at $300-400 to be able to be pushed out of battery with light pressure on the front of the slide, nor to beat the **** out of itself when returning to battery under normal operation. The pressure that causes this flaw is so light that even holstering the weapon can cause it to happen, and I don't know about you, but I cannot trust my life to a weapon so easily disabled, nor a weapon that constantly hitches up on itself under normal operation.


Go shoot it and enjoy it. I think you are worrying to much. Oh, if you are not already be sure to use quality factory ammo, no reloads, steel, or aluminum cases to gauge the pistol's reliability.

As for the previous post, he has had an ax to grind for months if not years. He imagines problems too and then tries to recruit others to his way of thinking.
It's hard to enjoy shooting the gun when I can feel it catching on itself, and when I have to dig around inside the chamber to release the brass. Besides, this isn't really a gun I shoot to enjoy; I have other handguns for that. It's sold as a CC weapon and I bought it to entrust my life to. That's where my enjoyment comes from.

I don't feel like I'm being unreasonable in expecting a not-inexpensive CCW to at least be able to feed and empty a magazine without hitching on itself or encountering a stoppage. I'm not expecting quality on par with a $1500 1911 or anything, and I can deal with quirks, I just want to know that, god forbid I have to use it, it will work, you know? I don't think that's too much to ask.

Seems a bit weird that I'm being told these issues are totally normal and/or that I'm imagining things — seems a bit defensive?


I'd call Kahr because if it's within 5 years from manufacture it's still under warranty. Send it in to have them get it right.
Any idea how to decode a serial number into date of manufacture? I have a feeling this gun is probably 4-5 years old, but I could be wrong.

[Antarius]

Ettercap,

1) You may need a new recoil spring assembly. They are due to be replaced at 1000-1500 rounds.
Considering you may have a flawed one to begin with, and the round count may not be exactly known, id start by buying a new recoil spring assembly from Kahr or Midway. You may find the front of the assembly better indexes and you don't have the battery issue.

2) The hangup you feel when pulling the slide back, before the barrel or just as it unlocks and drops, is normal. Mine does it, as does many other guns I have.

3) What you are describing is an improperly (or could be anyway) installed slide stop.

Remove the magazine and slide the slide back to the index mark. Remove the slide stop / catch (whatever you wanna call it).

You will notice there is a spring that the shaft of the slife stop slides past (and touches) as it enters
the frame. Additionally, on the right side you'll see a tiny part of the spring that kind of sticks out towards the rear of the frame. Make SURE the notch on the slide stop goes below (it kind of cradles it) the spring, this will cause the spring to hold the slide stop down during operation. If it's assembled wrong, it will push the slide stop up -- causing premature locking back of the slide.

If this only occurs on the first round, you should be locking it back and releasing with the slide stop anyhow. But check the spring nonetheless.

4) Replace recoil spring assembly and retest. Replace with a new one, not the spare you have.

If it still continues, I would check the extractor tension. I'd bet it's your recoil spring assembly though.

Hope this helps. If not, email service@kahr.com and see what they say.

[ettercap]

Ettercap,

1) You may need a new recoil spring assembly. They are due to be replaced at 1000-1500 rounds.
Considering you may have a flawed one to begin with, and the round count may not be exactly known, id start by buying a new recoil spring assembly from Kahr or Midway. You may find the front of the assembly better indexes and you don't have the battery issue.

The second spring assembly works OK, but only if the open coil of the spring is pointed in a specific direction. Is this normal, or still abnormal?



3) What you are describing is an improperly (or could be anyway) installed slide stop.

Remove the magazine and slide the slide back to the index mark. Remove the slide stop / catch (whatever you wanna call it).

You will notice there is a spring that the shaft of the slife stop slides past (and touches) as it enters
the frame. Additionally, on the right side you'll see a tiny part of the spring that kind of sticks out towards the rear of the frame. Make SURE the notch on the slide stop goes below (it kind of cradles it) the spring, this will cause the spring to hold the slide stop down during operation. If it's assembled wrong, it will push the slide stop up -- causing premature locking back of the slide.

If this only occurs on the first round, you should be locking it back and releasing with the slide stop anyhow. But check the spring nonetheless.

I tried with the new recoil rod and triple-checked slide stop spring. All looks OK, but I've noticed now that when I chamber a round, the extractor sticks out slightly (by about 2-3mm). I haven't noticed this before. I take it that's not normal.

Thanks a lot for offering some troubleshooting. :D

[Antarius]

The second spring assembly works OK, but only if the open coil of the spring is pointed in a specific direction. Is this normal, or still abnormal?

no, that's not normal. Mine functions regardless where the open loop of the recoil spring is. It should be noted that older springs were different than the newer ones (fewer or more coils if I recall). So Ya, go buy another from Midway.




I tried with the new recoil rod and triple-checked slide stop spring. All looks OK, but I've noticed now that when I chamber a round, the extractor sticks out slightly (by about 2-3mm). I haven't noticed this before. I take it that's not normal.

Thanks a lot for offering some troubleshooting. :D

Id have to check mine, but most extractors do move a little on a chambered round as the hook of the extractor is resting on the casing instead of nothing.

[hardluk1]

The recoil rod use's a nut that screws on and it has a tapper to it. The tapper should be smaller on the inside. See if you have one on backwards. That could cause a hang up. Had to get up to check mine. Old coil has 13 coils new 15. Position should not matter . My extractor has a light bump out, maybe 10ths but that does change with the brand of brass slightly.

Try to shoot it.

Used firearms can be a chancy subject. Dealing with them will teach you how to size up a firearm a bit better as time goes by. I only buy then used when I can shoot them or the price is low enough so I can afford to send it home for some TLC if needed.

[CJB]

1. Came with 2 recoil guide rods. With both, I can make the weapon come out of battery by pushing it slightly... seems to go away if I point the open end of the spring in a specific direction



2. There's a kind of 'hitch' when I pull the slide back — like it's catching on something

3. When I load a full magazine and pull back the slide, the slide locks.

4. I had (in 150rds) 4 malfunctions



Ettercap ol' bean, I have you pegged for the type of person who comes to a forum to whine a bit, not really listening to what folks say, not able to be convinced otherwise of their "suspect" new toy, and frankly, guilty of being some entertainment for the troops before being a pain in the rectum on the forum.

However, I shall afford grace to your questions, and see what that brings in the form of good cheer for all.

1. Yes, as stated in the manual, the open end of the sping should be positioned at the front, and it should be at the 12:00 position as the pistol is held in a normal firing position, or put another way, the open end should be away from you and towards the barrel as you assemble the field stripped pistol. The Kahr design is such that when the pistol is ready to fire, there is tension and counter tension between the recoil and striker springs. The first little bit of push back on the slide, on a Kahr, is easier then on some pistols. This is normal, and does not present issues in any way.

2., 3., & 4 - all sound like the relationship of the slide stop, and its little spring are not correct. Could be the spring was fubared by the previous owner... could be it was just not assembled correctly at field strip time. Sounds like the slide stop is being pushed up rather than down as its normal state. This would explain all of your issues on questions two through four.

Have a look in some of the sticky's on the forum for the relationship of the spring, its correct installation and adjustment.

Have a seat, take a deep breath, quit with the attitude, and have a nice day!

[Scarywoody]

^^Definitely follow CJB's suggestions.

I'm a new CM9 owner too and have been breaking my pistol in as suggested by Kahr (owners manual) and the forum guys here. As yours was a used pistol, I would detail strip the slide as described in the Kahr-Tech forum. Follow the sticky "How to detail strip the Kahr upper." Definitely take the advise to use that wire tool. Makes life real easy and once you make it you can keep it for the pistol. From your description it sounds like there may be some crud in the internals. Plus, it wouldn't hurt to give it a good clean.

As stated above the hangup that is felt is normal. I polished the disconnector and it did smooth it out a bit. Make sure to lube the pistol according to the Kahr lube diagram sticky.

You have to remember that the CW and CM models are the entry level points to the Kahr line. They do not get the attention and hand fitting that the others do. With a little time and a bit of elbow grease your pistol will rise to your expectation.




How To "Detail Strip" the Kahr's Upper (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?197-How-To-quot-Detail-Strip-quot-the-Kahr-s-Upper!)

[muggsy]

Replace the outer recoil spring. When you install it the open end of the spring should be in the 12 o'clock position, or toward the barrel. Field strip and clean the gun. Reassemble the gun as per the video. Then shoot the fokker like you stole it. It's one of the finest concealed carry pistols made. If you still have no faith in it after that then get rid of it and find something that you do have faith in carrying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2cZgVg_SwA

[Ikeo74]

Here you go.... http://www.kahr.com/Brochures-Manuals.asp .... Go to this page nd read and download "Kahr operating instructions", evidently you didn't get one with your gun. The information here covers almost all, if not all of your posted questions. It has some really good information. If you got one with the gun, now is the time to read it.