holdon to ur hats New York People

[jocko]

THEY GONNA RIOT AGAIN. Let the games begin.

[muggsy]

If Barrack Obama had a son he look just like Eric Garner. One common thread seems to run through all of these stories. The victim would still be alive today if they just hadn't resisted arrest. There's a moral to this story, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

[knkali]

link for others to peruse so they are up to speed
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ny-policeman-not-indicted-in-chokehold-death-spurring-protests/ar-BBgio9c?ocid=mailsignout

[DavidR]

If Barrack Obama had a son he look just like Eric Garner. One common thread seems to run through all of these stories. The victim would still be alive today if they just hadn't resisted arrest. There's a moral to this story, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

The moral is that the police should just stop arresting people for breaking the law.


Dave

[knkali]

or don't resist arrest

[89grand]

It sure is nice living in AZ and having never heard of one single loot fest...I mean "protest" ever happening here.

I love some of the pics I saw too. A large number of self hating liberals carrying signs as well. :crazy:

[SlowBurn]

To be honest this one bothers me. I'd like to know what justified that chokehold. Nothing released so far that I'm aware of. Not saying the GJ was wrong I'd just like to hear more before making up my mind.

[timboy]

They have classified the it as a headlock not a choke hold.

To be honest this one bothers me. I'd like to know what justified that chokehold. Nothing released so far that I'm aware of. Not saying the GJ was wrong I'd just like to hear more before making up my mind.

[knkali]

To be honest this one bothers me. I'd like to know what justified that chokehold. Nothing released so far that I'm aware of. Not saying the GJ was wrong I'd just like to hear more before making up my mind.

you are rational and that is nice to see. I agree with your reservations on this matter but I also never understood resisting arrest either and I hope I never do.

[knkali]

They have classified the it as a headlock not a choke hold.

Don't really understand the diff. I have been choked out before and lived to be here blessing everyone with my prose. What went wrong? If you choke off a guys air he will pass out, same with blood supply. I guess death can happen if you kept the choke hold on too long after the guy is out. Any MMA guys here care to explain this ? Why the death? Too long in the hold?

[muggsy]

The guy had asthma and a bad heart. The same thing might have happened if they hit him with a stun gun. The police are authorized to use whatever force is determined to be necessary including lethal force to secure an arrest.

[TheTman]

It sure looks like a choke hold on the video, they cops arms were around Garners neck, not his head. I think perhaps they could have eased up when the man said he couldn't breathe. Like if someone has a heart attack or something while they are arresting him, do they go ahead and let him die, and then cuff him, before trying doing CPR and trying save his life? Why was he being arrested? They said for suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes. If they observed this, they can arrest him in the act of committing a crime, otherwise, they should have just left him alone.
At the point the man complained about not being able to breathe, and was obviously having problems, they should have stopped and let him catch his breath, and not kept piling on him and holding his head down. If the guy was some thug, I might be more convinced the cops were in the right. But killing a guy for selling untaxed cigarettes, when the tax on a pack of smokes in NYC is $5.35, seems like a pretty minor offense. I guess the man had just helped break up a fight, and I suppose that's why the cops were there in the first place, to break up the fight. Maybe they felt they needed to arrest someone, so they pick on this guy. As far as resisting arrest, he didn't punch anyone or anything, he just argued with them to leave him alone, and he didn't want to be arrested. So all this because he didn't put his hands behind his back and let them cuff him and cart him off to jail? Wasn't it Thomas Jefferson that said that we have no duty to obey an unjust law? $5.35 tax per pack seems pretty unjust. Particularly to poor people. I think the cops got away with murder in this case, by not easing up when he was in distress, and hassling him in the first place, after he did the cops work for them by breaking up the fight. They should have thanked the man for saving them from something that might have turned out far worse for the cops. A couple of black men fighting might have put their differences aside and went after the cops. Like happens so often in domestic disturbances. This wasn't no Michael Brown case, where you have a violent thug attacking a cop. Just a peaceful guy trying to make a buck. So NY didn't get some tax money, boo friggin hoo. The situation could have been handled a lot better than it was.

[b4uqzme]

... So all this because he didn't put his hands behind his back and let them cuff him and cart him off to jail? ... The situation could have been handled a lot better than it was.

If the cops want to cart you off to jail, I recommend you put your hands behind your back and let them. You'll live to get your day in court.

And yes, this is tragic and could have been handled much better.

[McE]

I don't think cops would be very good cops if they uncritically believed everything the person they were arresting was saying.

[89grand]

I don't think cops would be very good cops if they uncritically believed everything the person they were arresting was saying.

So are you saying if the perp said "Hey let me up I can't breathe, oh and by the way, can I borrow your Glock for a minute", they shouldn't trust them?:)

I'm not fond of cops particulalry, but many thugs seem to want to push the situation to the points they have been, and the results are often what you'd expect. I'm not too sure of this one just yet.

Not as clear cut as the other story the media fed us.

[cloud]

one way or the other NYC is going to pay. They said last night on the news the family is suing the city for 75 million dollars.

[addictedhealer]

I agree with others, where was the victim and is that amount of forced needed? Cops are payed they can't they take time to deescalate the situation? Choking a guy and smashing his face into the ground is abuse of power.

I agree resisting arrest is a bad move but he wasn't fighting back or assaulting anyone.

[downtownv]

There was no damage to the windpipe or carotid artery,The guy was doing a petty crime was obese had multiple medical issues and was busted before for this.
NYPD has 35000 members this ain't Ferguson, heads will get cracked by these boys.

[Whaleman]

I see a lot of difference between Ferguson and New York.

[SlowBurn]

There was no damage to the windpipe or carotid artery,The guy was doing a petty crime was obese had multiple medical issues and was busted before for this.
NYPD has 35000 members this ain't Ferguson, heads will get cracked by these boys.

"The city's medical examiner ruled Garner's death a homicide, saying a chokehold killed him. The medical examiner says compression of the neck and chest, along with Garner's positioning on the ground while being restrained by police caused his death. Garner's acute and chronic bronchial asthma, obesity and hypertensive cardiovascular disease were contributing factors." http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Timeline-Eric-Garner-Chokehold-Death-Arrest-NYPD-Grand-Jury-No-Indictment-284657081.html

Agreed its dangerous not to submit immediately when being arrested. And police are not required to "fight fair" or put their own safety in danger in carrying out an arrest. If he was tased, or even hit with sticks until he complied I have no problem with it.

But I think a chokehold is deadly force. I haven't seen anything yet in the videos or from the information released that justified it. I hope they release the records of the grand jury.

[muggsy]

If you can't breath you can't talk. Eric Garner would be talking today if he had just complied with the lawful order from the police and quit resisting arrest. This was his third arrest for the same offense. Learn and live.

[jocko]

Hindsight in this case is alwasy 20-20. Again we just do not know the results of the grand jury investigation and maybe will never hear it either. I thought I heard yesterday that the results of the grand jury cannot be released. Tony Stewart didn't mean to kill that driver either but many still think he did, and Garner picke dup tons of spporters due to him being black, nuttin else and now our POTUS and supreme racists Holder will step in and try AGAIN to get a conviction. They are battin 0-2 so far and they won't win this one either.

Pretty soon these police officers are just gonna drive by black areas and let those in that area just take care of them selves. Not sure the public will endorse this but I am sure the cops are just getting feed up with this stuff. NY has over 40K officers and like someone staed, they will bust heads if they try this ferguson sh!t. Business will demandit and they wil get it..

I seen on Fox today a photo of Hillary givng a talk at Georgetown University, and it was half empty..

[marshal kane]

That guy, Eric Garner was HUGE! Why was he selling untaxed cigarettes on the streets when he could have been playing for the NFL? This is going to cost NYC millions.

[TheTman]

I think he was too old and out of shape to play in the NFL. Plus he had asthma
Yeah, his third offense for selling cheap cigarettes to poor people. A $5.35 tax on a PACK of cigarettes is pure BS from the Nanny State that doesn't want you to smoke.
That tax is the real crime. Stealing money from poor folks that need it the worst. Garner was just trying to help people save some money. Taxes was a big reason this country was founded. I doubt that the people had any say in the matter as to whether the cigarette tax was raised or not. Just as they had no say in how many bullets a magazine could hold. If you get caught with an extra bullet in your magazine, should this happen to you? It's about the same thing, a petty offense that violated the rules of the Nanny State.
Yes he should have let them arrest him, and he'd be alive today, but he was obviously in distress when he said he couldn't breathe. It sounded like he was barely able to get the words out. It seems like they arrested him on SUSPICION of selling cigarettes, again, did they see a crime in progress? Or just assume he was selling the smokes?
Just because I leave a bar at 2:00 am, doesn't mean I'm drunk, should I be arrested on the suspicion that I am?
There were enough cops there they could have let up some and let him catch his breath. If he'd went for a cops gun, he would have been shot on the spot, well maybe considering NYC cops poor marksmanship. I'm just saying that the cops need to ease up some when a perp is obviously having potentially fatal health problems. The arrest wasn't that damn important, he hadn't committed any violent crime. Just avoiding paying some taxes. How many of us have fudged a tax return some? Or bought something in a state with lower taxes and brought it home. Should we all then be put in a choke hold and killed or arrested? This type of thing just fuels the people saying we are turning into a "Police State". Where the cops can do anything they want, and get away with it.

[diablo53]

or don't resist arrest
Or don't break the law

Is it still breakimg the law if you don"t get caught?

[diablo53]

I keep hear people make the remark "but the medical examiner ruled his death a homicide." A homicide is not a crime. Murder, or manslaughter is the crime. Homicide just means another human contributed or caused the dead. If you shoot and kill someone in self defense it is still a homicide, but not murder.

[knkali]

I keep hear people make the remark "but the medical examiner ruled his death a homicide." A homicide is not a crime. Murder, or manslaughter is the crime. Homicide just means another human contributed or caused the dead. If you shoot and kill someone in self defense it is still a homicide, but not murder.

didn't know that ....thank you

[tom.p]

I keep hear people make the remark "but the medical examiner ruled his death a homicide." A homicide is not a crime. Murder, or manslaughter is the crime. Homicide just means another human contributed or caused the dead. If you shoot and kill someone in self defense it is still a homicide, but not murder.

Thank you! A medical examiner does not determine guilt, or whether a crime occurred. I blame the media for misrepresenting this when the medical examiner announced it, whether they did it deliberately or not. I remember seeing a headline stating that his death had been ruled a homicide...I figured that meant the NYPD had completed an investigation. I went to the article and the first sentence said this was the medical examiner's determination, at which point I though to myself, "that means nothing; why are they reporting it with that headline?!"
...Vultures.

[SlowBurn]

Medical examiner's job is to determine the cause of death, which in this case was compression of the neck and chest by the police. The medical examiner does not determine whether or not the chokehold was justified.

[mr surveyor]

most average (and all of the 47% below average) people don't know the difference between homicide and murder. That's where we are in today's ignorant (sub) society.


jd

[Planedude]

Thank you! A medical examiner does not determine guilt, or whether a crime occurred. I blame the media for misrepresenting this when the medical examiner announced it, whether they did it deliberately or not. I remember seeing a headline stating that his death had been ruled a homicide...I figured that meant the NYPD had completed an investigation. I went to the article and the first sentence said this was the medical examiner's determination, at which point I though to myself, "that means nothing; why are they reporting it with that headline?!"
...Vultures.

Ummmm... The "Vultures" job is to sell newsprint... Mission accomplished.

It was an overreaction to what amounted to a petty crime. So many cops for a "tax crime" seems weird to me. I think the question to ask is this, what politician prioritized the cops to "get" the tax evader and where is the indignant cry for his head?
That said, if the big guy had just gone with the cops shouting "this is BS!!" he would still be alive and none of us would care...
Plenty of guilt here to go around. Recognition of this reality drives my "don't give a s**t" about the whole thing.

[mr surveyor]

Ummmm... The "Vultures" job is to sell newsprint... Mission accomplished.

It was an overreaction to what amounted to a petty crime. So many cops for a "tax crime" seems weird to me. I think the question to ask is this, what politician prioritized the cops to "get" the tax evader and where is the indignant cry for his head?
That said, if the big guy had just gone with the cops shouting "this is BS!!" he would still be alive and none of us would care...
Plenty of guilt here to go around. Recognition of this reality drives my "don't give a s**t" about the whole thing.

perfect analysis

[CPTKILLER]

The President can tone these down but isn't doing that.

[Armybrat]

Well, if the unarmed New Yorkers are scared of the rioting mobs, go hide in the public library - none of the hoodlums will think of lookin' in there.

[jocko]

perfect analysis

but nobody wants to be heard saying, ha dthe fella just let them arrest him, he would be alive today. Yes it is a shame he passed away, certainly that was not intentional. There was a black female cop there who was a sergeant even, who would have had complete authority to tell those officers there to just back off and let her handle it etc, so why not try her along with the utters that tyhey feel should be charged. U know that ain't gonna happen. That sergeant should have had the additional training to fit her rank and suthority to know if thatwas a choke hold, but she stood there and watched this all go down, WHATS HER FOKKING PROBLEM> I had read where the merchants had complained to the authorites about this fella numerous times standing in front of their business peddling cigs etc. Tis was not a first time encounter with this fella. Its tragic that this happened but we buried over 700 cops killed this year and I don't remember Holder being at one of the familys funerals or asking for a federal investigatioo, let alone our POTUS getting involved. Just sayin

I really try to say I am not a racists but these demonstrations and utter sht are making it so easy to ge that way. Hell I just read where in denver school kids walked out of class to protest, WTF is that sh!t. My bet 98% don't even know what the fokk thery are demoing for but yet the police corridored off the streets do theyt could protest and what happened a person had some kind of seizure and hit 4 officers on bikes, one is critical and according the the news report, some of the students yelled run over them again. Oh yes, its out of control but only for the black protesters who know they can get away with it. I truly feel for the cops out there now, as theyt are targets for violence with the full backing it seems of Holder and our POTUS..

I know in Indianapolis a peddler can sit on the sidewalk in front of the most expensive restaurants aroud Indy and asl long as he doesn't talk to the people peddlieng he can just sit there and hold some sign telling everyone he is homeless etc. Cops can't move him either. It definitely hurts those business to, it has been stated many times in the Indy papers, but their hands are tied, it seems. Just sayin

[marshal kane]

most average (and all of the 47% below average) people don't know the difference between homicide and murder. That's where we are in today's ignorant (sub) society.


jd
I think we are where we are because the lawyers speak "legalese" not that we are an ignorant (sub) society. Also, doctors know "medicalese" and I won't even begin to touch that one. In the old days, the medical report would have read, "Big galoot kilt by five deputies. End of medical report. We aren't ignorant, we just didn't go to the right schools!

[Armybrat]

I think we are where we are because the lawyers speak "legalese" not that we are an ignorant (sub) society. Also, doctors know "medicalese" and I won't even begin to touch that one. In the old days, the medical report would have read, "Big galoot kilt by five deputies. End of medical report. We aren't ignorant, we just didn't go to the right schools!
Or the scene right after Liberty Valance was shot........ "Dead".

[addictedhealer]

The current events are not about race it's about police using unnecessary force against AMERICAN CITIZENS. Black or white. Brutality isn't warranted for a victimless crime. I didn't see anyone assaulting or attacking anyone.

[knkali]

how should that situation be handled?

[89grand]

The current events are not about race it's about police using unnecessary force against AMERICAN CITIZENS. Black or white. Brutality isn't warranted for a victimless crime. I didn't see anyone assaulting or attacking anyone.

This one is more about New York law and their addiction to tax payers money than anything else, and the Police, while I'm certainly no cheer leader for them, simply have to enforce what they are told. Ferguson was 100% the thugs fault. This one, has enough blame to go around for several.

[cloud]

how should that situation be handled?

With a no knock warrant. lol

[addictedhealer]

This one is more about New York law and their addiction to tax payers money than anything else, and the Police, while I'm certainly no cheer leader for them, simply have to enforce what they are told. Ferguson was 100% the thugs fault. This one, has enough blame to go around for several.

I completely agree, I'm not saying the Mike brown didn't deserve what he asked for. Part of the issue though black or white police have been getting out of hand. Go online and look at all those open carriers stupid videos being assaulted arrested and harassed. People are getting tired of the police using excessive force and breaking the law themselves to get arrest.

[DavidS]

I don't have enough knowledge personally about the police actions to have an opinion one way or another on the prevalence of excessive use of force or the differential treatment of suspects based upon race.
One thing that does bother me is the time it takes to make a decision on an officer involved incident. The decision on whether to charge a citizen is made within hours or a couple days. It seems to me that officer involved decisions take days/weeks, possibly giving the impression of preferential treatment of the officer and a potential cover up. I am not saying there is preferential treatment or a cover up in any case, but the impression is there.

[jocko]

well so many of us MACHO kahr owners often say f a guy comes into your home invasion he is bought and paid for..We are then using the actual alibi of HOME ENVASION TO SHOOT to kill. We don't know why that person was really breakingi or what, and Iam not sure u have to really ask either. How can one say that Mike Brown did not bring his death upon himself.WTF was wilson supposed to do when he tried to do when Brown worked him over in his patrol car and went for his firearm. "ask questions". Just sayin It seems ALL THE PROTESTORS are painting police officers with the same brush,and this is just not right.

My feelings on this is if the Ferguson and Staten Island things was white on white, we would have never read about this, RIGHT OR WRONG certainly there would have been no riots like we have seen. This will bring bout soe police dept changes, I have no dougt and maybe most need some changes, but it is not gonna stop white on black confrontations, . so now we have created what I think is a scenario that if a white cop gets into a confrontation with a black and hesistates in his response, he could be dead. Not sure how much time they are supposed to wait before they defend themselves or to enforce a law thatis brken.

No one in that staten island mess wanted to kill that fella, so the fat of charging him with MURDER, would have neverr held up, the utter charges possably couldhave been brought but again WE HAVE NOT SEEN OR READ WHAT THE GRAND JURY SEEN.. Why was there so many cops at the staten island deal.possably they called up for some back up or the report to them was this was a 400+ ELLA, AND imo THERE WAS NOT ONE COP THERE OR TWO WHO COULD HVE BROUGHT THIS FELLS DOWN to cuff him, unless he volunteered. Maybe the grand jury knows this to. Eric "the racists" holder will get this straightened out,he's the an for this job. He is fair and just throughout---more so though , if ur black. Just sayin

I do know that one thing is a certain, If u argue or try to resist a police officer, ur gonna loose 99% of the time..

[TheTman]

Here we go, here is the white folks chance to go on a looting and rioting spree: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/18965-black-cop-kills-unarmed-white-youth-media-and-feds-silent
A black or Hispanic officer killed and unarmed white teen in Salt Lake City. The media has been all over this... Yeah right,,,, not a peep has been heard from the MSM.
I'm heading to Walmart now to get my free TV. :rolleyes:

[jocko]

the retraction say hISPANIC. tHEY GET A FREEE PASS anyway , probalby an illegal officer to. still not a word sid . We don't matter Tman

[TheTman]

I don't know if it's as much as we don't matter, as to what amount of chaos the MSM and the race hustlers can stir up, so MSM will have plenty of news to cover, I imagine the ratings go way up when they cover the riots and looting and all the fires and burning cars and everything else that went on. Since whites don't riot and loot, there's not much incentive to cover stories of whites being gunned down, just as there's not much interest in black on black crime. One thing for sure, is it's all about the money.
And interesting side note: In Utah, death by police is the 2nd leading cause of violent death in the state. Only domestic disputes ranked higher. "Officers in Utah have killed 45 people since 2010, representing 15 per cent of all homicides - meaning that only murder at the hands of an intimate partner accounts for more deaths." from: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/police-in-utah-have-killed-more-people-than-gang-members-drug-dealers-or-child-abuse-since-2010-9879613.html

In Ferguson a young Jewish reporter was attempting to interview some rioters in Ferguson that were yelling kill whitey or kill Wilson and such, and the reporter asked if they thought that was racist, and he got back that he was the racist. When as asked how he was racist, he was told because you're white and all whites are racists, to which he said I'm not white, I'm Jewish, to which they responded that you're not Jewish, we are the real Jews. Trying to argue logic, against emotion never works. Ask any married man.

[knkali]

In Ferguson a young Jewish reporter was attempting to interview some rioters in Ferguson that were yelling kill whitey or kill Wilson and such, and the reporter asked if they thought that was racist, and he got back that he was the racist. When as asked how he was racist, he was told because you're white and all whites are racists, to which he said I'm not white, I'm Jewish, to which they responded that you're not Jewish, we are the real Jews.

interesting read: Was Jesus a black man?
http://religiouscrossroads.tribe.net/thread/d2844545-c82d-403c-b6b9-79357df761a4