Working on my trigger pull & sight picture...

[bilbo]

I picked up my first Kahr about a month ago. I wanted something a touch smaller than my XDs so I could pocket carry now and then... Anyway, so far I'm really liking my CM9. I've haven't shot a lot of "DAO" so I'm working on cleaning up my trigger pull. As I've been getting a bit better with the gun I seem to be having sight picture problems. I've read several threads here and elsewhere and they all seem to have conflicting info. Maybe you guys can help me figure it out what I'm doing?

Every pistol I have ever owned has shot "point of aim". I am aware of and have shot other pistols that are both
"6 o'clock hold" and "combat hold". In the picture below all shots were fired roughly one second apart in sets of six shots. (standard flush mag) The lower set of targets were shot consecutively at 30' at around the 400 round point. The first shot of each mag was shot PoA (dotted the "i") and impacted really low. From there I "decapitated" my "i" to bring the impact point up. After about 100 more rounds I was able to keep the sight in roughly the right place to keep most everything on the bullseye. The top two targets were shot this way first at 30' second at 60' at around the 500 round point. I'm pretty darn pleased with how the gun shoots but would really like to figure out some sort of repeatable sight picture rather than "guesstimating" how high out of normal PoA to hold the front sight. I'm fear it's something I'm doing wrong and I'm open to any input...

http://www.borton.org/images/guns/4_targets-cm9.jpg

[berettabone]

When I first shot my MK, I was using the 6 o'clock hold, dotting the I, with the front sight on the 6, and was way low..............I have found for me, that if I leave a small space between the two sights, with the front sight raised higher, so there is space between the two sights, and put the front sight right on the bullseye, I have become much more accurate. I know that's not too technical, but it works for me. As long as I keep a bit of space between the two sights, it works. We know they're not target guns, so it only gets so good..................:rolleyes:

[bilbo]

Yup. That is what I meant when I said "decapitating the i". I'm raising my front sight above even alignment. I suppose I could have described that more clearly. lol. Just so we're all on the same page...

I'm hoping for a "Point of Aim" sight picture like #2 in this pic:

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/sightimages.jpg

(#1 being "6 o'clock Hold" and #3 "Combat Hold")



What I'm doing is something sorta' like this:



. . . . . . _X_ . . . . . .
_____ | 0 | _____
_| |__|___|__| |_
| H |
|____________H____________|


lol. "ascii art"

[b4uqzme]

You shouldn't need to but you can order taller or shorter front sights from dawsons. They make varied sizes just for this purpose.

[Alfonse]

There was a post a while back discussing sights. One member had painted the "tips" of rear sight white. When I saw that I realized there really was something to line up the dot on the front sights with vertically. If you center those "points" of the rear sight on the dot from the front sight, you get the POA you are seeking. I have never been able to get the white paint on the points of the rear sights neatly like the person who originally posted it. But, even without the paint I have become better with the Kahr sights using the rear sight as described.

[marshal kane]

IMO, you're doing just fine at the 30' distance. Your CM9 is meant to be used for close in targets so as long as you can stay on target and not have any "fliers" just concentrate on shooting smaller groups. I would suggest you to stay with the proper sight alignment and learn where to hold to impact the center of your target. In a real "life or death" situation, you may not have time to align your sights and just have to point and shoot so it's important to remember that a CM9 is a defensive weapon, not a match pistol. With my P9, I feel any shot in the "black" at 15 yards is a good shot and leave it at that. I only count "points" when I shoot with my match pistols. YMMV.

[berettabone]

Yup. That is what I meant when I said "decapitating the i". I'm raising my front sight above even alignment. I suppose I could have described that more clearly. lol. Just so we're all on the same page...

I'm hoping for a "Point of Aim" sight picture like #2 in this pic:

(#1 being "6 o'clock Hold" and #3 "Combat Hold")



What I'm doing is something sorta' like this:



. . . . . . _X_ . . . . . .
_____ | 0 | _____
_| |__|___|__| |_
| H |
|____________H____________|


lol. "ascii art"

I am using sight pic #3....with the front sight a bit higher than straight across........................................

[deadeye]

I use the 6 o:clock hold. "dot the i" with the dot at the bottom of the bull's eye. Set up a pellet trap in my back yard and practiced, practiced and some more practice with a co2 pistol. (much cheaper). Mostly trigger pull. My co2 pistol has a trigger pull almost identical to my CM9. I have gone from being lucky to hit a 8" X 11 1/2" paper to a 2 1/2" pattern on the bulls eye at 21'. Nothing to brag about and I hope to get better yet. The CM9 isn't much for target practice at over 25'. Just an opinion. Hope this helps.

[bilbo]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think what I need to do is practice more. My first 100 rounds were fired at a rifle range where 25 yards was the closest target position. I don't think I was even on the paper until the last dozen rounds or so. I'm thinking I'm still pulling my shots down, just not as badly as I was. I'll give it some time and see if my (non-compensated) point of aim and point of impact don't converge. If my groups tighten up but remain low then I'll look into a shorter front sight from Dawson... or maybe I'll try something completely different like Big Dots. I do understand the CM9 is intended to be a short range weapon and in that regard I am more than happy with its performance. I'm at 500 rounds of federal/winchester + around 75 rounds of mixed HST/Gold Dot/PDX1 without a single issue. I wish I'd picked one up sooner. Right now I know this gun is more accurate than I am... but it never hurts to try and improve.

[muggsy]

It sounds to me like you are anticipating recoil and you're pulling the muzzle down just as the shot breaks. Are you staging the trigger or pulling it straight through? I see this a lot with people who aren't familial with long double action trigger pulls. The pull through method works for me.

[muggsy]

It sounds to me like you are anticipating recoil and your pulling the muzzle down just as the shot breaks. Are you staging the trigger or pulling it straight through? I see this a lot with people who aren't familial with long double action trigger pulls. The pull through method works for me. I use hold #3 the combat hold.