Why .40?

[Redstate]

I used to have .40 caliber pistols (Glocks). Now I only have 9mm and .45. I was always curious as to why someone would want such a small pistol such as a CM or PM in a .40 vs. a 9mm. It cannot be disputed that the recoil of the .40 is more significant than that of the 9mm. It cannot be disputed that the CM and PM hold one more round in the nine than the .40.

I have had more opportunity to pick up a used Kahr in a .40 than a 9mm. Always said no.
Please enlighten me as to why one would choose a .40 over a 9mm in such a small pistol. Thanks.

[b4uqzme]

Cannot help you (sorry). I prefer to carry .40 = good ballistics and more capacity vs. 45acp. But when it comes to CM/PM/MK size, I went with a 9mm for similar reasons = good ballistics and more capacity vs. 40cal.

[Longitude Zero]

.40 is a 10mm Short and Weak.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ and half the $$$ too! :)

[89grand]

I own 7 handguns and all but one are 9mm. I have one .40, a Ruger P94 that I bought in 1998. The only reason I bought that in .40 was because this was during the asinine assault weapons ban and since I was limited to 10 rounds, I figured I may as well get the bigger caliber.

I really have no use for the .40 in any sized gun any more. Versus 9mm, it costs quite a bit more to shoot, magazine capacity is always reduced, recoil is stronger, it's harder on the gun, and it really doesn't offer any ballistics advantage or if it does, it's minimal.

In the 25 years or so I've owned guns, I've yet to have to shoot anyone, but I have saved a lot of money by shooting 9mm vs .40. But even if I did have to shoot anyone, I feel well armed with a 9mm with decent modern hollow points like a Gold Dot. To me, the .40 doesn't offer any advantage. I haven't shot that P94 in years.

[Bawanna]

Common knowledge where I stand on this issue. Make mine a 45 everyday of the week.

I prefer bricks over pebbles. I got nothing against the 40 and get along fine in a full size gun but not in a compact. Not giving up my K40 just yet but too much handful for a carry gun even magnaported.

[dirtengineer]

I too have a CM9, but I can see arguments of ballistic superiority and perhaps wanting all pistols to be a common caliber. I think capacity and controlability are what make the 9mm common in the subcompact category.

[tom.p]

A .40 will make a bigger hole in a bad guy than a 9mm, but I still choose to use 9mm. Proponents of larger calibers often like to top about "stopping power," but that's far less important than shot placement.
My point is: yes, if you hit a bad guy with a larger caliber, it will do more for you, but that's only a benefit if you hit him. I'm more accurate with 9mm, so that's what I own. Use/carry what works for you, as long as you're confident with it. In most shooters (especially in a compact/subcompact gun), that would be the 9mm. If the .40 or .45 gives you the level of confidence you need, go for it.

Additional note: In my caliber choice, I'm also considering what my wife can shoot accurately, should she need to use my gun. If she needs to get at it while I'm not home, or in a worst case scenario, take it from me after I've been shot to defend herself, I want her to be able to use it well. (No, I can't get her to carry her own)

[Dave Nowlin]

Actually I own a PM9 and a CM40. Far more law enforcement carries the .40 these days than the 9. Have you stopped to wonder why? In fact some departments including the Secret Service carry the .357 Sig round. A 9mm on steroids. The U.S. Coast Guard has switched to the .40 over the 9mm. It does have more recoil than the 9 but one must consider equal and opposite reactions. If it recoils more it also hits harder. I'm 72 and I have never shot anyone but if it does become necessary, I want to end the scenario with the least possible amount of rounds fired. The more rounds you fire the harder it will be to justify what you have done in the name of self defense.

[SDGlock23]

For me I have much more .40 than 9mm and so a Cm40 made sense although I had a CM9 and it was very good and will probably pick up another. In many ways, for those making the choice it would probably make more sense to get a 9mm. I don't find the recoil of the CM40 to a LOT more than the CM9, at least with typical factory fodder anyways. Plus while it's 5+1 vs 6+1, neither are high capacity options and I've noticed no loss of accuracy by shooting the .40 over the 9mm.

[DavidS]

I don't collect guns. Picked one caliber, stuck with it. MK40 for cc out and about, Glock 23 oc for around the home.

[Longitude Zero]

Common knowledge where I stand on this issue. Make mine a 45 everyday of the week.

I prefer bricks over pebbles.

Me too.

[Alfonse]

I love to have choices. Here is one thing that hasn't been mentioned: During the ammo shortage I could buy .40 pretty much the whole time. I can't say that about 9mm. So, I have them all.

[b4uqzme]

For me. I'm just as accurate if not a little bit more so with the .40. And until recently, 40cal ammo was just as cheap as 9mm around here. In fact that's why I started shooting 40cal: 9mm was too expensive IF you could even find it (not too long ago). I no longer prefer to rely on just one caliber as you never know what will be available in the future. YMMV.

[knkali]

For me. I'm just as accurate if not a little bit more so with the .40. And until recently, 40cal ammo was just as cheap as 9mm around here. In fact that's why I started shooting 40cal: 9mm was too expensive IF you could even find it (not too long ago). I no longer prefer to rely on just one caliber as you never know what will be available in the future. YMMV.

^^^^yes!
Also, I tend to stray toward bigger calibers in colder weather. I want a little more punch to get through the heavy leather jackets and layers of clothing should I need to use my SD gun. Is this based on fact or myth? I don't know. I do know that 9 mm compact in summer is more comfortable to carry than my full sized 45 and the full sized 45 is not as arduous to carry in the winter versus the summer. Finally the .380 is reserved for strictly ankle carry and back up carry only. No flames please.

[Bawanna]

45 arduous? I gotta look up arduous. I'm thinking its like hard or difficult. Blasphemy.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ not if you got a CM/PM45...:D

We've drifted off into a caliber debate but it sounds like a lot of us agree with the OP...bigger guns = bigger calibers and 9mm for the subcompacts.

[leftysixty]

I carry a small .40 because I can't get a .45 that small!

[Stingray]

I have 11 different handgun calibers I could potentially carry but I currently carry a PM9 and have a Glock 19 as my home protection handgun. The ammo landscape has changed drastically over the last 5 decades, and the availability of inexpensive practice ammo combined with changing bullet techology and caliber effectiveness constantly drives and changes my preferences over time. 38 special used to be the cheapest practice ammo in the 80s and 90s, and there was extremely cheap 9mm and 223 military surplus, often from overseas, flooding the market in the 90s ( a little of which is still in my safe today). All of the major revolver calibers were easily available and there was cheap practice ammo like Blazer aluminum case everywhere. I loved shooting 44s back in the 80s. Even 380 was plentiful and cheap, and I carried a PPK/S for most of the 90s. It was the biggest I could comfortably conceal. I even carried a Beretta 25 through the 80s and some of the 90s.

But 9mm didn't really come into its own until the last 5 years or so, give or take a couple, with HST and Ranger T bullet technologies that can perform through barriers and still both expand and penetrate. That, and the flood of sub compact, pocketable 9mm semi-autos, changed the landscape for me and I recently switched from my HK 40 to my Glock 19 for nightstand duty to keep things consistent. I like to practice a lot and 9 is cheaper than 40 where I buy usually. Besides, I can accurately shoot 9 a little faster than 40 and 45, and a triple tap with a 9 makes a bigger combined hole than a double tap with a 40 or a single tap with a 45 :)

[HAP1978]

I've always preferred .40's and .45's. I've never had an issue with the .40 and my groups are pretty good at 7-10 yards and I'm not an expert by any means, a lot of it is probably due the straight shootin Kahr pistol. Since I started shooting Kahr's my aim has improved dramatically.

.40's do make bigger holes than the 9mm's.

[TheTman]

I went with a CM45, over a CM40. I have 9mm, .40's, 45's semi's, and 38/357 and 44 special and Magnum revolvers. I think the .40 will do about anything a .45 will, but the ammo always seem to run higher than .45. Since Kahr gives you no extra capacity in .40, over the .45, and that is my semi-auto caliber of choice, I went with the CM45.
Plus there is something about shooting the .40 in light weight guns that seem to me makes it snappier than a .45. I prefer my .40's in full size metal framed pistols. Like the Beretta Cougar.

For some reason (economical I think), the larger city I live near, dropped the .40, and went back to 9mm. Officers got their choice of a Glock or S&W M&P. 60% went with the M&P, 40% with the Glock.

[kwh]

I know of one instance where a jogger was killed by two Rottweilers. Walking, jogging in my neighborhood, I am much more likely to be attacked by a large dog than a B.G. I prefer to carry a larger caliber, heavier bullet, for for quadrupeds. A .40 S&W is compromise of size, weight, and capacity.

[AJBert]

Pretty simple in my mind:

Smaller than a .45 and larger than a 9mm.

Variety is the spice of life!

[Pointblank]

The more powerful the round, the more consistent practice it requires and the less likely you are to make a disabling hit under stress. A .32 in the CNS beats a .40 in the shoulder.

[Bill K]

The more powerful the round, the more consistent practice it requires and the less likely you are to make a disabling hit under stress. A .32 in the CNS beats a .40 in the shoulder.

That applies to rapid follow up shots not the first shot, right?

Also, wouldn't the ammo gun combination make a difference? Faster and more accurate double taps from a full size 1911 shooting 180 grain vs. say my PM9 with 124 +P?

[Bawanna]

That applies to rapid follow up shots not the first shot, right?

Also, wouldn't the ammo gun combination make a difference? Faster and more accurate double taps from a full size 1911 shooting 180 grain vs. say my PM9 with 124 +P?

I believe this is true, course with a 45 you generally don't need double taps, unless of course you miss the first shot.

[Alfonse]

I believe this is true, course with a 45 you generally don't need double taps, unless of course you miss the first shot.

I thought you were talking about 12 gauge there for a minute.

[OldLincoln]

My son got a 40 to fit with the department. It shot okay for me but with more snap than the 45. I've shot the 357 but one mag and my hand hurt too bad to shoot more and when my hand hurts I'm not that accurate. My PM9 shot okay but I couldn't ever get comfortable with the grip even with various covers. It would twist and I had a time with followups. Because of my grip issue (kid accident tore out some thumb tendons) I switched to a G30SF which fits my hand like molded for it. I find the 45 is more comfortable to shoot with less snap, just more of a push. So for me it's comfort and accuracy with comparable concealment.

[Bawanna]

Old Lincoln, you made my day just making this post! I been thinking about you lately, wondering how you and yours are getting along.

I agree on all counts about the 45 push rather than jolt.

I've mentioned it before but I went to a Winchester ammo seminar at our local prison range where they train and our department also uses the range for training as well. They had a petite female corrections officer shooting 9 and 40 and then a guy shooting the 45.

It lasted several hours and while there were probably 40 or 50 people there, most weren't all that interested. I was right next to the shooters and looking over the gel test up close.
Anyhow after a time I asked why they were shooting the way they were, her on the 9 and 40 and the guy on the 45. She admitted that she felt the 45 was too much!

Being the shy introverted guy that I am I told the guy with the 45 to switch so she would shoot the 45 telling her that if she was ok with hot 40 rounds from all manufacturers she'd have no issue with that 45.

She walked away with a totally different outlook on 45's that day, still warms the cockles or me heart. Well it would if I had a heart that is, guess it's one of them figures of speech as it were.

[OldLincoln]

Bawanna... thanks for the howdy. We're getting along pretty well. I always wondered how my grandfolks got along just hanging in and resolved to do it differently but life deals the cards and we play the hand we have. That said we have laughs and do pretty well in our way. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods and you grab a couple smiles along the way. Sorry for the woodsy talk, been spending my days reading Louis L'Amour.

[Bawanna]

Louis L'Amour is my all time favorite. One of my most valued possessions (next to my guns of course) is the L'Amour collection my dad left me. He thought he had everyone he wrote, even had them numbered. Read them all numerous times and I'm fixing to read Last of the Breed again for probably the 6th time.

Had one of my kids teachers refuse to let them do a book report on a Louis L'Amour book, said they were all exactly the same.
I actually had a meeting with her and loaned her a few, opened her eyes it did. She allowed the report and I truly believe she became a fan.

Glad to hear your doing good, your wife getting the hang of that power chair?

I've been fighting my indoor one, just won't stay charged, been gonna take it in to get checked out for a couple years, just never get around to it.

As the original creator of the Bawanna Grip Emporium thread I feel your obligated to check in and let us know how your doing just a bit more frequently.

[OldLincoln]

Well Bawanna, I feel like you're sorta kin, and I drop in now and then but don't visit like I used to. I'm becomin more like Tell than Orrin. I agree that Last of the Breed was a good one. I gave it 5 stars and only 178 out of 1328 so far got that including 8 of 45 by L'Amoure.

My son got most of the collection from my sister who passed them around the family but I passed on them too busy to read for fun. He found the remaining books and now has them all and reads them repeatedly. I shuffle them between several of most genre but always look forward to them. Tip for interest... My sister initialed her book on the book side of the front cover and added the year she read them below that. She read many of them several times. My son gets a lick out of the family history.

I mostly enjoyed the historical books like To the Far Blue Mountains, The Lonesome Gods, Jubal Sackett as well as the Ken Follett books in his Century Trilogy. Now look.... you got me doing the Orrin again. It's been good visiting a spell, Bawanna.

[jimrod1969]

I have a CM9 and a CM40. I carry the CM40 for SD when I need a smaller gun than my G27. I shoot a lot, and a lot of calibers, so shooting .40's is no big deal and shot placement is no big deal to manage either. I'd rather go with the more powerful .40 S&W even though I sacrifice 1 round. I carry a 6-round extended mag for additional capacity. Many police departments across the US maintain 9 mm as the minimum acceptable caliber, so I'd rather step it up then go with the minimum :)