Fear of pulling the Trigger and buying a CW390/P380 Advice needed

[mainenwo]

I really love the look size and quality of these two 380 models but I've heard so many complaints
about Stove pipes, failures to feed, failures to eject, and on and on... I'm on a budget and I can't afford to spend so much money on a gun for it to end up being
a paperweight or spending so much money on 380 Ammo just to find out the gun is just not going to work.

Advice needed

I guess my question is to you guys and gals who have these guns is ...if you had the chance to buy this gun again would you?

[kerby9mm]

My latest experience although not a Kahr. I wanted a 9mm revolver & did some research & read that the charter 9mm pitbull was an OK gun with an extractor system that does not need moon clips. Found one at the gun show checked it out mechanically & paid. Got it to the range & when I loaded it I could not close the cylinder. They are sending a pp label. Its always a toss of the dice on a new gun & the forums tend to bring out complaints. If you have read all the posts you can make your decision based on your evaluation. I never saw any problems on this one so I got a lemon with a lifetime warranty.

[SlowBurn]

I would get another, without question. In fact I have one on order. No other gun this size shoots nearly as well imo.

As far as ammo, these little guys DO require some breaking in even if everything is perfect. The recoil springs are VERY stout and nearly impossible at first. It's one of the trade offs for the excellent handling and performance characteristics. So plan on a few range trips before it's ready to carry every day.

I don't expect trouble based on my own experience, but some people have had issues and not all because of operator error. If I have a problem with the new Kahr, I'll send it back as often as necessary. No matter what I'm sure Kahr will eventually make it right. I don't mind taking it to the range when it comes back and shooting it some more. It's just a question of how much time before its reliable for every day carry.

If you haven't owned a small gun before, you may need more practice than you expect to get used to it anyway. Grip, hand placement, trigger discipline etc are more challenging. One advantage for me over the LCP is I don't mind putting in the time with the Kahr. I enjoy it.

[Pointblank]

I have a relatively new Kahr 380. My advice is to make sure you buy a few extra magazines and number them before going to the range the first time so that you know whether or not you are having a problem with the pistol or just a certain magazine. I believe the little Kahr does best on full-power ammunition, so avoid cheap bargain ammo. Clean it before your first range session and every time you should it. If you plan to pocket carry it a lot make sure you clean it regularly also because of pocket lint, etc. Shoot it a lot, it smooths out. Good luck.

[ulflyer]

Mainenwo: It does seem to be a toss up with these tiny guns and it doesn't seem to matter a whole lot what make it is. Squeezing an auto slide operated gun down to the
size of the CW380, for example, simply offers the potential for issues. Some of us luck out with few, if any; others have a lot and have to send them back for warranty a time or two.
I took my CW380 right out of the box; no cleaning, no oiling, and put a hand-full of hardball thru it. There were 2 or 3 glitches and then theres been no more with over 200 rounds thru. After the initial shoot I did clean it and lube it generously as recommended. This seems to be a "must" with Kahrs.

On the other hand, my P45, a much larger gun, has over a 1000 rounds thru it, many of them reloads. NO ISSUES other than those caused by my reloads while working up a load that suited. Some were too mild to cycle the slide.

Then theres my Ruger LC9s, a slightly larger framed gun, Zero issues, right out of the box, now with several hundred thru it....both hard ball and HP. Not picky at all.

Post your location and maybe someone in your area will invite you try their little ones.

[MphsTiger1981]

Having owned most of the pocket sized .380s over the years, the cleaning and "fluff and buff" or break in is the key to reliability it seems. I chose the CW380 for its size, stainless slide and usable sights. Mine has been flawless during break in with only less than 5 minor failures to return to battery with some of my weaker ammo.

If I had it to do over I would chose either the CW380 or the newest generation LCP from Ruger. Both guns are supported by companies who will do their best to make sure your gun runs right. Good luck!

[timboy]

Being on a very tight budget I understand where you are coming from,some on here loose sight of that and why we expect more from these guns and get pissed when a brand new gun has issues.

I bought my cw380 to replace a diamondback db380 that I loved but never trusted,my cw380 had issues when new that necessitated a trip back to khar to resolve and now I think it is a great gun and carry it often.
If you are expecting a gun that is 100% out of the box I can not garuantee that you will get that with a Kahr 380 due to my own and many others experiences,if you are willing to deal with the possibility of having to return it to them for a work to make it perfect then give it a try.

Would I buy it again if I could do it over,YES it meets the criteria of what I was looking for a small,light,striker fired semi without a manual safety,but I would like to have been better prepared for the teething pains that can come along with owning one.

[NECW380]

I just ordered a CW380 for $239 from (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cw-380acp-2-barrel-black-cw380.html) Palmetto State Armory... so if you have an FFL who does transfers, this would be a good option since they seem to run quite a bit more in stores. I ordered before Christmas, so mine won't ship until the new year, but I'm anxious.

[CJB]

The Kahr design is a good one, with no gotchas in the mix. However, like all small autoloaders, it is less forgiving than a full size pistol. Lack of weighted parts, lack of generous overtravel in the slide, and tight springs are part of any small pistol's bugbear. Good ammo, proper break-in, is a must. Shoot the hottest stuff you can find for break in, and you'll be happy. Shoot range reloads, and you'll be on the slow road to break-in.

[z8894]

I've had my CW380 for 5 or 6 weeks. I'm very happy with it and knowing what I know now, would buy it again. It's tiny and can be pocket carried, that's what I wanted. There are other guns this size. I looked at them all, the CW380 was the obvious choice for me. I've got 500 rounds through it now. I had a few hiccups in the 1st 100 which isn't unexpected for any semi automatic. Overall it's been very reliable and accurate. There are trade offs when you go this small. It's as small as I wanted but too small for my hands. I can shoot it well but sometimes have a hard time getting and keeping a good grip on it. That's just a going to the range problem. If I ever had to use it for it's intended purpose, it wouldn't be an issue. Use the break in recommendations, keep it clean and lubricated. It should work fine, at least mine has.

[CPTKILLER]

$286 is a good deal.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/83990

[DavidR]

No, I would not buy one again. However, there are no guarantees of a trouble-free pocket sized 380, regardless of the manufacturer.

My CW380 had return to battery failures from day 1. While it was back at Kahr for repair, I picked up a new generation LCP. Took it straight from the sales counter to the range line and it performed as it should. Has performed fine with FMJ, JHP, and flat-nosed bullets. My CW380 came back from Kahr and was better but still had battery failures with some hollow points and flat-nosed ammo so I sold it.

Anecdotally, after visiting several Ruger forums, the LCP seems to have fewer problems out of the box than the Kahr. There are trade-offs between the two but I decided to stay with the LCP.

[kwh]

I would buy again. I also had concerns of reliability . Previously I had bought a CM9 and a CW45. All are fine after initial break in. In addition to what the others have said,the .380 will cost more to break in because of the ammo expense and it might not like all ammo. For me, the Kahr 380 has much less muzzle flip than I would have thought. It fits my small hands well ,and I like the Kahr's triggers. I don't carry if often because there is almost no time when I can not carry my CM9. For me personally, I would choose a CM9 over the CW380. More power, less ammo expense, and while noticeable, not much size and weight difference. I mostly pocket carry, and also IWB carry, but when I do I usually carry the CW45.

[Busted Knuckle]

My LCP was perfect, ate everything I fed it, but I hated to shoot it. I bought the cw380 instead of a stainless lcp and never looked back. Found ammo it liked ( really ammo it didn't like) shot the 2 side by side and sold the lcp. My wife opened her new cw380 w/purple frame this morning.........(Santa ran 50 flawless rounds through it b4 wrapping it).

Good luck

[2tango2]

I just ordered a CW380 for $239 from (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cw-380acp-2-barrel-black-cw380.html) Palmetto State Armory... so if you have an FFL who does transfers, this would be a good option since they seem to run quite a bit more in stores. I ordered before Christmas, so mine won't ship until the new year, but I'm anxious.


That's a fantastic price for a CW380...I think I may have paid close to 100 dollars more.

That being said, thanks for the link to PSA. I regretted selling my Sig P238 earlier this year and saw they have one for an absolute steal...I mean like 220 plus less than most other places. I thought I'd be ponying up over 600 bucks even with my military discount at the Sig Pro Shop for another. The PSA price smokes that.

My first order from PSA and I've heard some so so stories about them but hoping this order goes off without a hitch.

Thanks for spending my $$ lol :)

[mainenwo]

Great Info guys thank you so much... so far im considering 3 choices the Khar CW380 the Diamond Back DB380 Gen 2, and the Ruger LCP Gen 2

[RRP]

Great Info guys thank you so much... so far im considering 3 choices the Khar CW380 the Diamond Back DB380 Gen 2, and the Ruger LCP Gen 2

Before you do that, handle a CM/PM9. Seriously.

[ulflyer]

Research the Diamondback productl I think you'll find they are very problematic with poor service.

[timboy]

From personal experience I would steer away from the db 380,it looks and feels great,hell the fit and finish was better than my cw380 but their reputation is horrible,their parts availability sucks and their being run by Taurus now.

Great Info guys thank you so much... so far im considering 3 choices the Khar CW380 the Diamond Back DB380 Gen 2, and the Ruger LCP Gen 2

[Whaleman]

My P380 went back three times. Broken striker, light strikes and it finally recieved a new frame. Now about 800 straight rounds without any problem at all. Dan

[TheLastDaze]

if you had the chance to buy this gun again would you?

NO....

Love the feel, sights and trigger but it is the most finicky gun I've ever owned... some have great success with them even people that handload for it like I do, but myself I fall into the camp of bad apples, I've tweaked it and it runs okay but I will never carry it and when its time to sell another gun in the stable it will be the first to go....

get a CM9 !!! not much bigger (honestly) and 9mm is much cheaper to shoot and obviously better ballistics and more controlled follow up shots.... with minimal if any bobbles, my PM9 has been flawless with my handloads and has 1200 rounds through it...

good luck

EDIT: I seen in your next post you were now considering three with the LCP being one, if it were me that's what I would buy... I've had one for years and it has 2700 rounds through it with no problems, it has fed the cheapest of cheap factory ammo flawlessly.... I finally managed to chew up the recoil rod and Ruger sent me a new one free!!!! even though I was willing to buy it...... great CS

[nksmfamjp]

I just bought a CW380. I have had no issues with FMJ, but my father had 1 FTF in the first hundred. Then I shot some Fiocchi JHP's. . . The FTF's were all where it goes under the extractor. I believe that they were from not holding on tight enough. . . .The grip is hard to hold onto. When I changed my dad's grip, the restt of the fmj's went without a hitch. When I had my one with the jhp's, I too focused on my gripand didn't have another.

I'm thinking that these ftf's will go away. If not, it will go back to Kahr.

Honestly, the gun is really tight now. Oil and working the slide helped some, but I probably need to just shoot another 100 fmj's through it. On a more positive note, it is an extremely shootable pocket pistol. I was able to put 6 shots into a pie plate at 5 yds with .35 s between shots. I was also able to shoot 6 shots touching each other at the distance.

Not bad. At 10 and 15yds, it wasn't off the plate either. This is ridiculous for such a small gun!

[RRP]

Great Info guys thank you so much... so far im considering 3 choices the Khar CW380 the Diamond Back DB380 Gen 2, and the Ruger LCP Gen 2

Time for an update. Have you made a decision, yet? Has this thread influenced you in any way? Lots of good info here.

[mikemc53]

I would buy another in a minute. Everyone has different experiences with different guns..and different expectations. Haven't had any issues with this gun (CW 380) and I am extremely pleased with the accuracy.

Also I don't go out of my way to recommend much or to shill for any one make or model. I will tell you what works, or doesn't work, for me and let it go at that. My Kahrs have been pretty near perfect...can't speak for anyone else.

Good luck and good shootin.

[TheTman]

I too would steer clear of the Diamondback. I had a DB9 for awhile and it was one of the worst guns for me that I ever owned. I never got it to fire more that 2 or 3 shots before it jammed. I don't think they build their frames strong enough and they flex too much when fired, causing feeding problems. A lot of it was caused by my small hands. I noticed it ran much better for people with larger paws. What they call customer service is poor at best. Their advice was to sell the gun. So I traded it to a guy with big hands. I told him about my troubles with it, and told him I'd give him a refund if it didn't work for him, but never heard back.
I had a range officer who was able to shoot a full mag with no problems work with me to try and shoot a full mag, and the only way I could get close to that was to put a death grip on it with both hands, holding it in a certain way. That is not the type of weapon I want to CC, or even own.

I have noticed over the last couple of years, that the number of complaints in the forum on the Kahr .380's are way down. Before that, it seemed that at least every 2 days, there would be a new trouble report on the P380, (this was before the CW380 came out). I think maybe Kahr tweaked the design a little making it more reliable, or I don't think they would have introduced the CW380. I don't know, that is just my best guess.

[TimtheRef]

I would buy a P380 again, for sure. I had a nice loooong break in period before complete reliability (about 400-500 rounds) but never had to send it back to Kahr. The issues I had were all failure to feed or eject properly. Once I had worked through those kinks, I haven't had the first problem with it. For some, that break-in period is too long. But like a fine whiskey or wine, sometimes a slow aging process does wonderful things. And in this category, I don't think you can find a smoother trigger, or better sights on a tiny pistol. My Kel-Tec P3AT has been a safe queen ever since purchasing my P380, because of the trigger and sights. (The Kel-Tec was insanely reliable, but it hurt to shoot more than 25 rounds at a time.) Hopefully you find what you're looking for!

[twowheels]

My first one was unreliable even after lots of work and 500 rounds through it. My second one also took some work but its at about 200 rounds now and its running well and is trustworthy. I recommend you also consider a micro desert eagle in addition to the cw380. They are quality pieces and mine is stone reliable, accurate, and easy to carry.

[pr42]

I really love the look size and quality of these two 380 models but I've heard so many complaints
about Stove pipes, failures to feed, failures to eject, and on and on... I'm on a budget and I can't afford to spend so much money on a gun for it to end up being
a paperweight or spending so much money on 380 Ammo just to find out the gun is just not going to work.

Advice needed

I guess my question is to you guys and gals who have these guns is ...if you had the chance to buy this gun again would you?

Yes, I would buy my CW380 again in a heartbeat, no question.

I went for this gun mainly because it locks the slide back on the last round (some other small 380's don't do that, I think it's useful). Also, I think the design makes it have a better (read: less snappy) recoil than other small 380's. Something to do with not being a blowback or whatever, I'm not certain of the details. But you'll read a lot about small 380's being "snappy", and the CW380 is not snappy at all (in my opinion). In fact, I was surprised at how smooth it felt, especially after firing my Springfield XD-S 9mm. I love the smooth trigger action on the Kahr.

I have had a few issues with certain ammo in the CW380, mostly stuff like the slide remaining locked back after firing the first round from a full magazine. But, this seems to be pretty clearly related to certain types of ammunition. The type that I actually carry in the gun (e.g. Hornady Critical Defense or Precision One XTP) has been pretty much flawless, I think. I've been to the range with this gun a few times now, and it has had a good few hundred rounds fired. I haven't been keeping count, to be honest.

I love that it is so easy to conceal for carry. I really like the way it fires. As long as you clean it, lube it properly, and take care to try out ammo at the range to see what works and what doesn't, then you should be fine.

Finally, not to cast doubt on anyone's negative experiences, but remember that people are more likely to be motivated to post on forums about problems, than if everything just worked as expected. When your experience sucks, then you are going to want to tell the world about it. When things are just working as they should, then you might not be motivated to go online and say that. Remember that there are most likely many thousands of satisfied users out there, who just don't feel all that motivated to post about it. Don't assume that just because you read about some issues online, that is what everyone is experiencing. Yes, it can indicate a trend in some cases. In the case of the CW380, I think the takeaway (as far as I can tell) is that this gun has issues with some types of ammo, you just have to try it to see what works. Don't buy a huge amount of any particular ammo until you know whether your particular gun likes it or not. As it stands, I made this mistake and now have three boxes of Independence FMJ which my CW380 apparently doesn't like much. Oh well. Even so, I'm happy enough with the way the gun works with the real self defense ammo that I'm sticking with it. I really like this little gun, it's what I have with me most of the time every single day, even in my home, because it's just so darned easy to carry everywhere you go.

[fasteddie]

Ftf in my P380 is always b/c of limp wristing. Once I got that under control, no probs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[twowheels]

Yes, I would buy my CW380 again in a heartbeat, no question.

I went for this gun mainly because it locks the slide back on the last round (some other small 380's don't do that, I think it's useful). Also, I think the design makes it have a better (read: less snappy) recoil than other small 380's. Something to do with not being a blowback or whatever, I'm not certain of the details. But you'll read a lot about small 380's being "snappy", and the CW380 is not snappy at all (in my opinion). In fact, I was surprised at how smooth it felt, especially after firing my Springfield XD-S 9mm. I love the smooth trigger action on the Kahr.

I have had a few issues with certain ammo in the CW380, mostly stuff like the slide remaining locked back after firing the first round from a full magazine. But, this seems to be pretty clearly related to certain types of ammunition. The type that I actually carry in the gun (e.g. Hornady Critical Defense or Precision One XTP) has been pretty much flawless, I think. I've been to the range with this gun a few times now, and it has had a good few hundred rounds fired. I haven't been keeping count, to be honest.

I love that it is so easy to conceal for carry. I really like the way it fires. As long as you clean it, lube it properly, and take care to try out ammo at the range to see what works and what doesn't, then you should be fine.

Finally, not to cast doubt on anyone's negative experiences, but remember that people are more likely to be motivated to post on forums about problems, than if everything just worked as expected. When your experience sucks, then you are going to want to tell the world about it. When things are just working as they should, then you might not be motivated to go online and say that. Remember that there are most likely many thousands of satisfied users out there, who just don't feel all that motivated to post about it. Don't assume that just because you read about some issues online, that is what everyone is experiencing. Yes, it can indicate a trend in some cases. In the case of the CW380, I think the takeaway (as far as I can tell) is that this gun has issues with some types of ammo, you just have to try it to see what works. Don't buy a huge amount of any particular ammo until you know whether your particular gun likes it or not. As it stands, I made this mistake and now have three boxes of Independence FMJ which my CW380 apparently doesn't like much. Oh well. Even so, I'm happy enough with the way the gun works with the real self defense ammo that I'm sticking with it. I really like this little gun, it's what I have with me most of the time every single day, even in my home, because it's just so darned easy to carry everywhere you go.


Nice post and sound advice. I really like the way these little guns carry and shoot. They are definitely finicky and take some time to find the right ammo and/or get running right.

[Fedupmech]

I have approx. 500 rds through my CW380 so far. I didn't get a chance to follow all the prep and lube that is described in this forum. I picked it up and went straight to the range. I had read that quite a few people had issues with it but I'm also aware that several people really like the CW380/P380 with no issues after the break- in period. I was expecting the worst. I'm very glad to say that the first 250 rds were very pleasant. I did have a few issues, but just a few and not all the time. Ran several mags with no problems. As I recall, maybe 3-5 FTF's, 1-2 FTE, a couple FT go to battery. Some where induced by me. I shot several times one handed to see what it was like. I'm sure some was caused by limp wristing. All in all. I really liked shooting it. The trigger is nice and smooth. Feels really good in the hand for such a small gun. My second trip to the range I had time to clean and lube it correctly per the chart in this forum. I'm very happy to say that it performed flawlessly. The first trip I shot , CCI 95 gr FMJ. The second trip I shot, CCI FMJ, Precision One XTP hollow point. I shot a whole 50 rd box of the Precision One's. I plan on carrying that so I wanted to make sure it worked. I did buy 1 - 6 rd, and 2 - 7 rd mags from cheaper than dirt. No issues with the mags. I'm very happy I purchased the CW380. I posted this information previously because I want people to know that all though some have had issues with this gun I think there's a lot of people out there that have had no problems. I plan on shooting some Winchester White box and some cheap PPU next. I know 380's in general can be a little picky on ammo. Anxious to try it out again. I got a Crimson Trace laserguard for Christmas. I really like it. It only activates when the gun is gripped is a plus. No turning it on and off. Highly recommend it. If you want a small reasonably priced 380 that is a pleasure to shoot, buy the CW380.

[Ron AZ]

Yes, I would recommend P380. If you can get through the startup period well and get it working cleanly, it is a sweet gun to shoot and pocket carry. Kahr stood behind their products all the way to get me through it. The lock back empty feature someone mentioned, the trigger, sights, handling and shooting are all pluses.

Someone said that the CW380 seemed to be a little less problematic than the P380. Based on the comments or lack of them on the CW and my personal and an acqaintance's experience on the P380, plus what you see in print, that may be true. I have 2 P380's, one purchased new and one used. The new has been back to the factory and had the feed ramped polished with a slight groove. The used one went back and got the more recent updated parts, new springs, and a mag swapped out.

Both are humming along nicely now with a caveat. With the 6 round magazine, both guns shoot 3 brands of hollow points and 3 brands of FMJ's flawlessly.

The 7 round mags are finicky. And there is an ammo and hand grip interaction when shooting the 7 rd. mags. Factory mechanic recommended to me to shoot the 7 rd. magazine with one hand and putting no torque on the front of the mag extension. It is prone to causing the 2nd round in a mag to dive and jam on the feed ramp. Nevertheless, HPR 100 gr. TMJ's shoot flawlessly in the 7 rd. mags in both my guns no matter how I hold it. With Magtech 95 gr. FMJ's, I get a failure in every 7 rd. mag in 1 gun and almost half of the mags I shoot in the other gun. Federal American Eagle 95 gr FMJ's and some hollow points I get few but sporadic failures in the 7 rd mags. I always want to make an excuse that cause was possibly attributable to putting pressure on the mag extension or the gun is dirty. But the bottom line is the 7 rd. mags are finicky. I still use the 7 rd. mags at the range.

Finicky is not good for CCW so I am only carrying the 6 rd. mags. Overall, after working all this out, I am pleased with my P380's.

[berettabone]

If your that worried about it, get a revolver.......................................... .....................

[KingWulfgar]

Go for the CW380. You can get really good prices on them (I paid $239 + shipping and transfer for mine). I just couldn't justify paying double that for a "P" model. I love it. I pocket carry it regularly and hardly remember it's there.

Take it apart, clean it, lube it, and break it in with good quality round-nosed ammo. Don't worry too much about FTFs or FTEs at this point. They probably will happen and it should smooth out. If you get up to 200-300 rounds and you're still having regular failures, Kahr has good customer service.

Do eet!

[twowheels]

My own opinion is there are good ones and not so good ones. My first one was not good. It took an awful lot of work and even though it was running really good when I traded it off it still was having an occasional bobble that was not ties to anything in particular. I found ammo that it liked but it still would, usually on about the last mag, would bobble.

But I really liked the feel, handling, action, sights, and accuracy of the gun so I bought another. After a few early problems that led me to do some work that I had done on the first one (clip a bit off the large recoil spring, polish chamber and breach face, reduce extractor tension, find ammo it likes) it started running 100%. Thus, I like my second one and do trust it.

However, all in all, I recommend the micro desert eagle before the little kahr because mine has been stone reliable. It also has a good trigger, ok sights, and is accurate, easy to carry and well made. I have both.

[Bobshouse]

Seems like a lot of complaints, but actually it's not. Figure how many p380's Kahr has manufactured over the years and compare that to the number of individuals here finding fault with theirs. Mind you, that most p380 owners never join a site like this...unless they are having problems, and looking for help. It goes back to the old saying "If your happy with a product you will tell 3 people, if your dissatisfied you will tell 20." That saying has been around a lot longer than the internet.

Everything is a toss of the dice. I research my purchases before I make them and hope the odds fall in my favor. By reviewing all the posts here, and the posts/comments from other sites, I've determined that Kahr has an outstanding customer service and repair department. So if repairs or service is needed, your taken care of, but the odds of that happening are slim.

[SlowBurn]

I have one of each. I don't need 2 and had planned to sell the p380 after getting a great price on a new cw380 but I kept thinking up excuses to keep both and finally realized I just wanted to, so I have. So that tells you my answer

IMO, there's no reason to spend the extra for p model. For my purposes they're the same gun. I think the CW380 is an amazing bargain even when not on sale. Compared to any other gun this size, its better shooting, smoother trigger, more substantial, a true lock breach striker fired system, with last round lock open, just an all round more substantial weapon. Its in the same price category as the LCP the TCP and other tiny pocket 380s, but its in a whole different class. There are some exceptions, but most have no problem with theirs. I also think if you check out objective reviews (assuming they can be found) you'll find that its the choice for a pocket 380 among those who know guns best. For example I read Ayoob's review to the effect that while he thinks 380 is too light a gun, if he carried one this would be it. Of course that's before Glock came out with the 42, but I'm not willing to sacrifice the convenience of the smaller CW380.

I carry this size gun because I know if it were any bigger it would stay in the vehicle. I wanted to be able to carry essentially all the time in any style clothing without having to think about it. If that describes you too, go ahead get a CW380 (or, if they're on sale, get 2).

[Bobshouse]

The only reason I purchased a P model over the CW is the CW is not on the California approved firearm list. None of the other "pocket" guns except the Sig Sauer 280 are available here in beautiful California. I didn't get the Sig because I am one of those who don't like to carry "cocked and locked". The internal hammer guns like the glocks and the p380 are fine and dummy proof.