New CM9 Showing Marks on Left Side of Slide After 50 rds

[alltimeqb]

Hello,

I'm new to Kahr firearms, but so far really like the CM9 I purchased.

I took it to the range for my first session with 50 115g FMJ target loads (Winchester) and it functioned flawlessly, however after the range time I took a close look at the gun and saw these two marks which were not there before this shooting session:

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i326/alltimeqb/KahrSlideMarks.jpg (http://s1088.photobucket.com/user/alltimeqb/media/KahrSlideMarks.jpg.html)

Anybody else experience this issue or know what is going on here????

Thank you.

[Scarywoody]

Did you notice prior to the range visit? It doesn't look like it would effect the slide action. I would just file lightly to reduce/remove and keep on breaking it in.

[muggsy]

If I had to guess I'd say that someone tried to install or remove the slide stop pin without having the index marks properly aligned.

[Hawkeye911]

From the spacing of the "dings," that's what I thought too, muggsy.

[alltimeqb]

Thanks for the replies. I did remove the slide, but did not leave those marks as they were not there before taking it to the range.

Maybe I'll contact Kahr customer service and ask them if I should worry about 'em. Scary is right, they aren't likely problematic unless they get bigger over time.

Thanks.

[gb6491]

Hello,

I'm new to Kahr firearms, but so far really like the CM9 I purchased.

I took it to the range for my first session with 50 115g FMJ target loads (Winchester) and it functioned flawlessly, however after the range time I took a close look at the gun and saw these two marks which were not there before this shooting session:

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i326/alltimeqb/KahrSlideMarks.jpg (http://s1088.photobucket.com/user/alltimeqb/media/KahrSlideMarks.jpg.html)

Anybody else experience this issue or know what is going on here????

Thank you.


If I had to guess I'd say that someone tried to install or remove the slide stop pin without having the index marks properly aligned.
We've seen reports of this time to time (IMO, not really common), but I don't remember any definitive conclusions as to what caused it (Icould've have missed seeing it though).

muggy's suggestion is extremely plausiblehttp://www.pic4ever.com/images/13.gif


I'd like to add my http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/twocents.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) on another possible cause. I've seen some Kahr slide stops that fit so close to the slide that the lever polished a portion of the slide. I think it likewise possible that a stop could fit close enough that, with a little frame flex during firing, the slide hits it. I suggest giving this area a look:
http://i61.tinypic.com/2u70qd5.jpg
If the fit is real close or the slide overhangs the lever, you might color the stop with a marker and see if any of the marker wears off after a few rounds. If it does, I might think about taking some material off the stop or asking Kahr about another stop. As an alternative to that, shoot it a little more to see if the dings increase in size. If the don't, I'd do as Scarywoody suggests "just file lightly to reduce/remove and keep on breaking it in."

Regards,
Greg

[alltimeqb]

Thanks gb.

That gap you mention is tight:
http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i326/alltimeqb/KahrSlideMarksSlideStop.jpg (http://s1088.photobucket.com/user/alltimeqb/media/KahrSlideMarksSlideStop.jpg.html)

So perhaps your 2 cents is worth more than 2 bits ;-)

I'll continue searching to maybe find someone with a similar issue and go to Kahr customer service to ask their opinion/direction.

Thanks to all!

[alltimeqb]

Btw - happy new year to all!

[alltimeqb]

You know, after looking at the second picture again, maybe these marks are coming from when I drop the slide with the slide stop. That's when the gap there would be very close due to the slide stop being swung down... maybe???

[alltimeqb]

Did a search on this forum for the issue I am seeing and here's a similar thread: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?9008-Gouge-chip-on-slide-due-to-slide-stop (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?9008-Gouge-chip-on-slide-due-to-slide-stop)

I believe this is what's happening, although I'm not sure. Wish the picture in the thread were still there.

I'm going on to search the interweb to see if I find more info.

[TucsonMTB]

In my case, Greg's suspicion that the slide stop can cause that type of mark is correct.

I have two PM40 pistols. One is plain stainless, the other is black.

The marks first appeared on the stainless gun which is older. Once the marks were noticed, the edge of the slide was dressed with coarse sandpaper to minimize them, only to see them return. Next the top of the slide lock closest to the edge of the slide was relieved and the marking seemed to stop. Subsequently, I beveled the entire edge of the slide on both sides with a large file. It is subtle but looks cool and there are no visible divots at this time.

When I bought the black PM40, I only fired a few rounds before relieving the top of the slide lock, which prevented the mark from growing. I blackened the edge where the divot appeared and have not noticed any further cosmetic damage.

http://viewsfromtucson.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/PM0-Ying-Yang-Web.jpg

This is not a closeup picture, but you can sort of see the bevel on the stainless gun, especially back where the cocking serrations make it a little wider.

I am quite happy that removing a little metal from the top of the slide stop was so effective.

[alltimeqb]

Thanks Tucson, the slidestop has to be the culprit. I did email Kahr service. I'll let you all know what happens.

[alltimeqb]

Here is the response I got from Kahr customer service:

Hello,

Yes these marks are due to the close tolerance's between the slide and
slidestop. If you wish we can have our gunsmiths smooth out the side of the
slide where this is happening but there is nothing we can do to make them
go away.

Thanks,

Kahr Arms/Auto Ordnance
130 Goddard Memorial Drive
Worcester, MA 01603

As far as I'm concerned this is unsatisfactory. I'll be writing back and calling next week. Stay tuned.

[TucsonMTB]

I suspect Kahr is trying to explain that those marks are "normal" from their perspective, like the scuffing on barrel hood of any 1911 or for that matter most Kahr pistols. They don't employ their production gunsmiths to "improve" customer's guns if they are working to their (Kahr's) satisfaction. It's not personal, just business.

If you want the marks to stop appearing, you will have to do the work yourself. In this case allow me to suggest something like a small jeweler's file. As I recall, mine took only several cautious minutes to relieve with small, diamond grit hobby file that I happen to have handy. I don't recall, it may have taken longer because of my caution and not being willing to spring for a replacement slide stop if I screwed it up. If you can figure out what part of the slide stop is contacting the edge and carefully file it down, checking frequently as you work, you will probably be happy with the results. If not, replacement slide stops are $24.20 plus shipping.

Just my opinion and, yes, YMMV. But, don't be too disappointed if Kahr declines to help. Be reasonable. That will be your signal to do it yourself or just accept a few small marks in a hardly noticeable location.

Best of luck.

[jimrod1969]

I have the same issue on my CM40 but not my CM9. KAHR Customer Svc, when contacted, said they were aware of the problem but currently there is no fix..that was in early Dec '14. They said it would not effect functionality/ reliability...but certainly effects aesthetics. It is indeed the slide stop making the marks as there is clear burnishing on my stop on the leading edge just above the cross pin highlighted by an arrow in a pic by an earlier poster. Also the slide stop tab that engages the slide was getting worn. Yes I think it is close tolerances but also likely some flexing of the frame during shooting that closes the gaps and is allowing the contact IMO. Just do some light "relieving" on key areas of the stop as TuscanMTB suggests - I did.

[alltimeqb]

Thanks to all for the input. I guess Kahr feels this is ok. I'll go ahead and take the top off that slide stop that is so close to the slide.

[jimrod1969]

Here is a pic of my modified CM40 slide stop that de-horns/ removes the sharp edge that cause the gouges in your slide. The slide stop in the foreground is the modified one and the one behind is an is an unmodified stock part. Note the removal of the sharp edge and general polishing in the area of where the cross-pin mates with the slide stop. That sharp edge is the culprit. On my CM9, I have no problems as there is just enough clearance between it and the lower edge of the slide that no contact results during firing. On my CM40, the clearance was much tighter and I suspect under firing, the frame flexes and causes hard contact. Now there is sufficient gap/ clearance that there is no more contact and no further marks on my slide. I did this to my CM9 and CW380 stops as well just to make sure that no issues crop up with those. I did all three in about an hour. All is needed is a vice, a small flat metal file (I used coarse double bastard cut), a sharpening/ polishing stone, and sharpening stone oil. Put the stop in a vice and SLOWLY work down the sharp edge with the file while carefully avoiding contacting other parts of the stop and scratching up the finish where you don't want to. Use sharpening oil throughout the process. Reshape the sharp edge to make it rounded and take it down enough to provide maximum clearance with he slide. When your happy with the shape, use the square edge of a fine sharpening stone with oil to polish the surfaces smooth, removing any burs. That's it! There is no loss in structural integrity with this mod and Kahr should have incorporated this relief into their casting tool (too bad we have to become home gunsmiths). Hope this helps.http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e354/jimsgunsonline/imagejpg1_zpsda2b4abb.jpg

[alltimeqb]

Thanks jimrod. The picture of what you've done is very helpful. Kahr did say they would send a new slidestop, but, as others have alluded to, Kahr considers this normal due to their tight tolerances. I'll take the edge off those marks in a few days.

BTW, anyone who has experienced the marks have a picture of the results of trying to knock 'em down?

[jimrod1969]

I'll take the edge off those marks in a few days.

BTW, anyone who has experienced the marks have a picture of the results of trying to knock 'em down?

I haven't done anything to the marks on the slide. I would be interested to learn about what you will do and see the pictures after it's done.

btw, that second unmodified slide stop in my pic is the one Kahr sent me. If I install it in my particular gun the slide gouging will continue...just the stack up of tolerances on my gun. Better to take the edge of the stop before your slide gets worse IMO. Good luck To!

[alltimeqb]

I did get the new slide stop and you are absolutely correct; I need to file off that edge before I go put even 1 more round through it! I'm probably not going to touch the slide anytime soon, but when I do, I'll post a pic.

[jimrod1969]

Good luck!

[alltimeqb]

Just to put the last nail in this coffin ;-)

Kahr sent me a new slidestop. After installation, it was apparent that the original part was at the upper end of the tolerance range (don't have explicit measurements nor do I have Kahr's design intent for dimensional tolerance of the part so I cannot objectively state that it was outside of tolerance), but the new slidestop looks to have no problem relative to the proximity of the slide itself. I looked at the original slidestop... right at the top edge closest to the slide, the corner is worn. This is exactly what caused the marks on the slide (like we didn't know), but I really cannot believe that Kahr is satisfied to just say; "don't worry about it, it's because of the close tolerances of a new gun, it doesn't effect performance..."

That is not the response of a company who is proud of their product. The new slidestop I received in the mail is clearly made within a different tolerance range as I didn't even need to file it down to see that it won't mark the slide.

After 50 rounds, I think I'm glad I purchased this gun, but I doubt I'll be purchasing another Kahr product anytime soon because I'm not that confident in their commitment to building a quality product. Some may think it's not that fair to make a judgement like this after a one product purchase, but I've bought Rugers, Smiths, Mossbergs, Remingtons, Springfields, Winchesters, AMTs and some others I'm forgetting about and have never had an issue with any one of them.

I'm sure there will be those who flame me, but at the end of the day that's my honest opinion.