negligence

[marcinstl]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/31/woman-accidentally-shot-and-killed-by-2-year-old-in-walmart/

(I'm on my soapbox this morning, another "gun accident" that should be called "gun negligence").
mom was pushing shopping cart thru Walmart when 2 yr. old son in cart goes into her purse, grabs the gun and plugs her. ????? WTF!?
what kind of gun, being carried in what condition? does anybody have a 2 yr. old and a trigger gauge, need to run some tests.

[diablo53]

Your gun should be on you. If it's in your purse, then the purse must be on you. The incident is tragic, but was 100% avoidable.

[muggsy]

Handguns were meant to be worn, not stored in purses.

[marcinstl]

"young boy was left in a shopping cart, reached into his mother's purse and grabbed a small-caliber handgun, which discharged once."

reading between the lines, I come up with--- pistol was loose in the purse, no holster and the pistol was probably one of those cheap, single action things, cocked but not locked.
obviously, all handguns and assault rifles must be banned in Idaho, it's the only way to protect the cronically stupid from themselves, see news at 11.
(ever hear of "guilt by association"? as in all gun owners are stupid and dangerous because the kid shot mom? if there was a national referendum that said all potential gun owners have to go to school, pass a test to get a gun owners license, pass the FFL 4473 to purchase a gun, I'd vote for it, if it looked hard enough to weed out the morons and ne'er-do-wells.)
I'm just an old guy that likes guns and likes to shoot-- I don't need to drag around the baggage of idiots.

[marshal kane]

Tragic, as this young mother was a nuclear research scientist with a CCW permit and not some "bimbo". She had obviously taken all the right steps and done her homework to obtain her permit. It just shows us all that even though we take precautions, there is always the chance that something unintentional can happen. My condolences to that family.

[Bawanna]

I'm sure not on board with the guvment making me go to school to learn how to drive a gun or take a 15 minute class, or even fill out a form or read a pamplet.
This of course will encourage them to do so which is not good.
I'm a true believer that higher education actually removes simple common sense somehow, I think it's subliminal.

This is a tragic event, can't imagine what the family will go through especially the 2 year old in a few years.

[muggsy]

A degree in nuclear physics doesn't mean that a person has any common sense.

[berettabone]

can't fix stupid.......................................

[kenemoore]

The root cause of this was the high capacity shopping cart. We need to implement common sense cart sizing, and make everyone use safe, small, hand baskets. Why would anyone ever need a high capacity cart for everyday shopping.

Couldn't help myself, sure wish it did not happen.

[marcinstl]

wait a minute, how did she get a degree in physics? awarded posthumously? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that no educated, right minded person is responsible for and carries a gun that shoots them. there are no gun accidents, there is only gun negligence(see loaded gun and interference with trigger). this still sounds to me like some psycho babe who was shot by her Cobra .380, and I got no sympathy for that. (only sympathy I have is for the 2 yr. old son wearing the "I killed mommy" t-shirt.) (call it my limited gun knowledge or gun prejudice, but I can't see this happening with a Kahr, Kel-Tec, S&W or Ruger, revolver or semi-auto, I would doubt it was a gun with a safe action style trigger, I would really doubt it was a Wilson Combat or Ed Brown. )

[Longitude Zero]

Your gun should be on you. If it's in your purse, then the purse must be on you. The incident is tragic, but was 100% avoidable.

Precisely!!!

[TheTman]

That made me think of how many of us put a gun in the console or something. Then get out to pump gas or something. Make sure no kids are in the car if you do.

[deadeye]

Good point. This the reason my guns are in my control or locked up at all times. This way I never have to worry about my grand kids getting hold of them. If I have to leave a gun in my car it is locked in a lock box.

[jkar4242]

Simple CC rule. You and your firearm are never to be separated.
jkar

[SIGWolf]

I agree that your firearms should always be in your control, always. Many of the discharge accidents about which I've read have occurred when a loaded firearm is left unattended. The other is when people are "cleaning" their guns.

[SIGWolf]

A degree in nuclear physics doesn't mean that a person has any common sense.

This is true.

[getsome]

This was a terrible tragic accident which I agree was 100% avoidable but just the same a young mother is dead and a 2 year old will have to live with it the rest of their life....Sad sad story and it hurts my heart....This is a good reminder of just how smart some 2 year olds are today, you can hand them a smart phone and they know exactly how to use it so don't think for a minute they wouldn't be able to figure out a pistol even if it has a safety....It's up to us as responsible, safe gun owners to never let this happen because we slipped up and made a mistake like the one that young lady made which cost her her life....

My prayers go out to the family

[ltxi]

Tragic, as this young mother was a nuclear research scientist with a CCW permit and not some "bimbo". She had obviously taken all the right steps and done her homework to obtain her permit. It just shows us all that even though we take precautions, there is always the chance that something unintentional can happen. My condolences to that family.

I'm with you here. She was also apparently carrying it in a carry purpose pocketbook/purse. Sometimes 3 sigma plus stuff just happens.

[AJBert]

I've talked a number of ladies out of buying a purpose built purse for concealed carry but what happened to this young mother is something I never even thought about. Hopefully other ladies will now get their firearms out of their purses and wear them.

I truly feel bad for the entire family and hope one day they will find peace.

[marcinstl]

if a news article mentioned a "gun purse", did they happen to get around to naming the gun?

[marcinstl]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/31/the-inside-story-of-how-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/
just caught up with this article, explains more. she doesn't sound like a psychobabe with a cheap pistol. I've never known a 2 yr. old well enough to what they're capable of.
pull a trigger? pull a hammer back far enough to fire a round?

[b4uqzme]

This just goes to prove how thin the line is between safe and unsafe. Never let your guard down.

My deepest sympathies for the family.

[marcinstl]

http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/kootenai-county/2014/12/30/deadly-shooting-kills-hayden-walmart-shopper/21058855/ watch the video and what the cop has to say.

this article says the gun was a S&W Shield. I'm guessing the saftey wasn't on or it is the model with no thumb safety. the gun was in a purse, not in a holster on her body.

(in an effort to think about how to carry a duty sized pistol I've considered going to a "man bag". if I found a bag that was comfortable and functional, I'd wear it when I was out, probably have it on the seat in the car. if I went out to dinner with friends or was driving with friends the bag would just get moved around on to my lap. never put the bag on a chair or off the body where somebody else could get to it. time to rethink the bag.)

[muggsy]

http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/kootenai-county/2014/12/30/deadly-shooting-kills-hayden-walmart-shopper/21058855/ watch the video and what the cop has to say.

this article says the gun was a S&W Shield. I'm guessing the saftey wasn't on or it is the model with no thumb safety. the gun was in a purse, not in a holster on her body.

(in an effort to think about how to carry a duty sized pistol I've considered going to a "man bag". if I found a bag that was comfortable and functional, I'd wear it when I was out, probably have it on the seat in the car. if I went out to dinner with friends or was driving with friends the bag would just get moved around on to my lap. never put the bag on a chair or off the body where somebody else could get to it. time to rethink the bag.)

He's a fancy boy. He carries a purse. It's European. :) (With apologies to Jerry Seinfeld.)

[Harrylee]

This is a sad story I do not believe this girl was some bimbo with a gun in her purse. She carried all the time on her hip and for Christmas her husband gave her a gun purse as a gift thinking it would make it easier for her with the hauling the kids around, her mistake was not having the purse on her shoulder. She was a shooter and hunter, still one moment of mistake cost her life. The 2 year old had unzip the pouch reached in pulled the gun out some how got his hands around the gun and pulled trigger. That’s when all bad things go right, now all the anti gunners will have a hay day with this, this is a tragic loss of a family give this story some slack. I do believe that if and when you carry it must stay on your body not in something that can be taken away from you or reached in.
Reread the link again and see the sad story of ccw holder and not some newbie gun owner. She could have been anyone of our daughter's

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/31/the-inside-story-of-how-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/

[marcinstl]

here's another story for the 2015 kahrtalk gun safety seminar---
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/01/william-mccollom_n_6404050.html
policeman "accidently" double taps wife. huh? need more info on this story.

[HAP1978]

Yeah, how do you accidentally double tap your wife!? Then I saw the update saying it was only once. Still he should know better being the chief of Police. Definitely something not right with this one but unfortunately accidents do happen.

[marcinstl]

"but unfortunately accidents do happen."

the point I'm trying to make when I post these stories is about the industry, the police and especially the medias continued use of the wrong term, "accident". the correct term is "negligence".
guns don't go off unless there was some sort of manipulation of the trigger. negligence happens all the time.
(if these stories really were about "accidents", "god's will", etc. the anti-gun people wouldn't have a leg to stand on.)

[Bawanna]

If we could bring back common sense, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on anyhow no matter what term they use.

[HAP1978]

"but unfortunately accidents do happen."

the point I'm trying to make when I post these stories is about the industry, the police and especially the medias continued use of the wrong term, "accident". the correct term is "negligence".
guns don't go off unless there was some sort of manipulation of the trigger. negligence happens all the time.
(if these stories really were about "accidents", "god's will", etc. the anti-gun people wouldn't have a leg to stand on.)

You're correct, the term I should have used is "negligence."

[SIGWolf]

There is so little detail and I don't trust most media accounts about what happened in cases like this especially at the very beginning.

1. What model and caliber handgun? (I expect a small caliber, probably .380, striker fired, polymer handgun)
2. Was it in a holster? (I expect not)
3. Was the purse actually in the cart with the child or was she carrying it and the child reached in anyway?
4. Did the child actually take the gun out or simply reach into the purse and the trigger was engaged by something else because there was no holster?

I wonder if anyone local has any more information?

[marcinstl]

the gun I saw in a news article was a S&W M&P Shield. the Shield is now offered in both thumb safety and no safety. it does have a version of the renouned "safety trigger".
another popular gun the Ruger LC9 now comes in a version, the LC9s, "s" for striker fired, this is available with or without the safety. the no safety version is called the "pro" model.
I've shot the top of the line of this genre of gun, the Walther PPQ. wow! what a trigger. almost as good as a 1911 race gun. I wouldn't carry anything like that. I'd be fudging my shorts just standing around somebody who had a loaded one in their hand. I hope all the gun company lawyers are on top of this fast trigger stuff, get out and earn their $200/hr.
(when I started shooting Kahrs, I whinned about the trigger, now I love it. in fact Kahrs might be a little to light and smooth. maybe a good starter gun would be a SCCY, or Kel-Tec P11, or Taurus hammerless revolver.)