Talk me into a 45

[spikedog]

I am into a small windfall and now would like a new pistol. I've got a couple of the Kahr 9mm's, but am thinking of a 45.

How do you guys like the P45 or PM45?


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[Longitude Zero]

CW45 is one of two CCW's for me Glock 30 is the other. Small, compact, controllable.

[GLOCKROCKER]

I don't see you going wrong with any of Kahr's line of .45s. Like LZ I also have the CW45 and carry it quite often. The PM45 with black slide has been on my want list also, but with the CM45 out now I don't know if I could justify the price difference. Let us know what you buy.

[BEARDOG]

Can I use some visual aids to help talk you into a Kahr .45?
Please direct your attention to the bottom right hand pic in my Kahr CM9 vs CM45 comparo...Any more questions? :cool:

http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/BeardogV1/cm9vscm45colsidexside.jpg (http://s958.photobucket.com/user/BeardogV1/media/cm9vscm45colsidexside.jpg.html)

Not as much "windfall" needed as a P or PM... But I love my CM45. It is really a nice size for carry and is very lightweight. But packing six 230gr +P Rangers plus a back-up kahr or 1911 mag with 6 or 7 more, makes it is a very powerful little package. It has become my favorite, and most carried Kahr. :amflag:

http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/BeardogV1/CM45grips.jpg (http://s958.photobucket.com/user/BeardogV1/media/CM45grips.jpg.html)

[yqtszhj]

Buy one. The cw45 is not much bigger than the cm45 so i dont think you can go wrong with either. I have both and really like them.

[berettabone]

I did........................................

[JohnR]

My PM45 fits in my back pocket, and shoots far more comfortably and accurately than it has any right to, for such a small light hand cannon.

Want more rounds? Get a 1911 mag and shave it in the right places, and pop it in.

But the main reason to get a .45 is because you're a real American man.

[Longitude Zero]

But the main reason to get a .45 is because you're a real American man.

Total Agreement.

[O'Dell]

I'm very happy with my CW45 [holster carry] and CM45[jacket pocket carry]. Remember: A 9mm bullet may not expand, but a 45 ACP will never shrink.

[CJB]

Oh hell yeah, real American men (and women) carry a "45", an American icon.

John Wayne's characters in WWII and as cops, John Dillinger, Sam Spade (or any character played by Bogart), Mike Hammer, you name the greats, they carried "45" pistols.

I used to be, still am for that matter, "Mr 45", back when "45" meant the Colt 45 auto, aka model 1911(a1). Times changed. Now the "45" can be from almost anyone. Get a "45". Better yet, get two.

My PM45's are faultless, fire whenever called upon to do so, and have become utterly reliable (after some shooting to break 'em in).

The 1911's have also been utterly reliable. So has the P220 SIG I've got. So was my Ruger P90, so was the 4506 Smith. The only .45 that took a dump on me was a .45 cal H&K P9s which was a sheet metal flimsy mo'fo, who's thin metal could not hold the action screws that held the lockwork together. The FN .45 auto, large...but smooth shootin and accurate (and holds 15+1).

PM45's fit in my pocket, and a CM45 would too. After sand and lint and crud of daily pocket wear, over six months of daily carry, same ammo, I can whip it out, a thunder off six rounds of 45 goodness in a matter of seconds. About two to be exact.

Every man needs a "45". Every woman needs a man who has a "45".

Nuff said.

[b4uqzme]

Every man needs a "45". Every woman needs a man who has a "45".

Nuff said.

...ALMOST! And every man needs a woman with 38's ('ceptin' LTXI). :D

[CPTKILLER]

Actually prior to jumping in, do rent or borrow a .45 and try one for at least a box of ammo. Calibers with any pistol is a personal opinion.

Stick with a pistol that you can shoot well regardless of caliber.

[ScottM]

Stick with a pistol that you can shoot well regardless of caliber.

^^^This. That is, unless you're a collector/enthusiast and just want something different - then by all means buy whatever is enjoyable at the range.

[Pointblank]

My P45 is a great pistol. I will never sell it.

[muggsy]

For Pete's sake what ever you do don't buy that first .45! If you think that your hooked on the 9MM, you'll be positively addicted to the .45. I've been trying to rid myself of this addiction for at least 40 years and I've finally come to the conclusion that it can't be done. And, if you think that you can stop at just one, you're sadly mistaken on that count, too. I'm sure that the rest of the .45 guys will agree with me on that point. No one can shoot just one. :)

[McE]

Windfall? Get an HK 45. Nicest shooting 45 I've shot.

[Bawanna]

You might consider a larger 45 platform in whatever variety. If you get a CM or a PM your 9's will undoubtedly become safe queens and/or trading stock.

A larger 45 would be a good range toy until you realize it is the ultimate self defense answer and don't feel bad carrying a full size gun. At that point the 9's are definitely out and then you can get a CM or PM 45 for the warmer months until you realize it isn't that hard to hide a full size even in the warm months, then you can still carry both 45's.

Did any of that make sense?

[O'Dell]

Oh hell yeah, real American men (and women) carry a "45", an American icon.

John Wayne's characters in WWII and as cops, John Dillinger, Sam Spade (or any character played by Bogart), Mike Hammer, you name the greats, they carried "45" pistols.

Nuff said.

But "Dirty Harry" shot a 44 Magnum. :)

[O'Dell]

Windfall? Get an HK 45. Nicest shooting 45 I've shot.

Agreed! My HK45c shoots great but so do my HK USP 45, CW45 and CM45, SIG P220 and C3, S&W CS45, SA Lightweight 1911, well, you get the idea. Of my fifteen pistols, eleven are 45's including five 1911's. Of the other four, two were gifts.

[pbagley]

Everything CJB said. I really like my CM45, but in reality the CW380 and the CM40 get more use due to their size and weight. But I really like the CM45 a lot. My CW45 had early issues but has broken in nicely. There is not a lot of difference in size between the CW45 and the CM45, I prefer the CM45.

So in conclusion, I recommend buying a CM45, and then a CM40, and finally a CW380.

[Scarywoody]

What's got me thinking about a .45 is the recent police shootings. Right, wrong or indifferent the assailants took multiple rounds of .40S&W and 9mm without stopping them. I'm thinking bigger holes is better. Put into a package you will easily carry and the PM45 or CM45 seems to fit the bill.

[Longitude Zero]

What's got me thinking about a .45 is the recent police shootings. Right, wrong or indifferent the assailants took multiple rounds of .40S&W and 9mm without stopping them. I'm thinking bigger holes is better. Put into a package you will easily carry and the PM45 or CM45 seems to fit the bill.

In reality the only thing you can expect a bullet to do is punch a hole its diameter into the target. If it expands all the better, and a 45 makes a bigger hole than a 40 or a 9.

[JohnR]

What's got me thinking about a .45 is the recent police shootings. Right, wrong or indifferent the assailants took multiple rounds of .40S&W and 9mm without stopping them. I'm thinking bigger holes is better. Put into a package you will easily carry and the PM45 or CM45 seems to fit the bill.
I wouldn't worry about the ammo. Under stress, it's hard to hit what you intend to (the bad guy's off switch). Police probably practice less than most of us. So practice like you fight, and focus on shot placement.

[yqtszhj]

You might consider a larger 45 platform in whatever variety. If you get a CM or a PM your 9's will undoubtedly become safe queens and/or trading stock.

A larger 45 would be a good range toy until you realize it is the ultimate self defense answer and don't feel bad carrying a full size gun. At that point the 9's are definitely out and then you can get a CM or PM 45 for the warmer months until you realize it isn't that hard to hide a full size even in the warm months, then you can still carry both 45's.

Did any of that make sense?

Bawanna said buy 2, a big one and a smaller one and carry both. Did i get that right? How about a Cbob and a pm45 to start with?

[diablo53]

I love my pm45. low bore axis makes recoil feel much less than expected for a small gun. Accurate too. After getting the pm45 I found no need to keep my safe queen kimber ultra carry CDP. Sold the kimber to buy another gun I wanted- and it's a shooter!

[b4uqzme]

I love my pm45. low bore axis makes recoil feel much less than expected for a small gun. Accurate too. After getting the pm45 I found no need to keep my safe queen kimber ultra carry CDP. Sold the kimber to buy another gun I wanted- and it's a shooter!

+1. I have a couple of 1911's and like them very much. But there's no need to carry them now that I have a CM45 IMHO. I prefer to keep the carry platform consistent anyways = all Kahrs or DA revolvers.

[TheTman]

I had a CW45, that was my main CC weapon for quite awhile. I downsized to a CM45, and am really liking it. I don't think any collection is complete without a 1911. Even those inexpensive Rock Island .45's have seemed to be reliable, if not the most accurate. A lot of folks talk up the STI Spartan .45 that sells for around $600 as a great affordable 1911, with good reliability and accuracy. There are a number of 1911's under $800 that I'd consider. Ruger, Remington, Springfield Armory, seem to be pretty good pistols. CDNN sports usually offers a 1911 of some sort on their sales fliers at a pretty good price. One thing I wouldn't do is buy a fancy target 1911, for a defense pistol. Those are designed for competition where a breakage, is not going to cost you your life. Just a normal standard 1911 is best for defense purposes. I added a Wilson part to my Springfield 1911 to improve accuracy, and it came with a warning to not use the weapon it was installed on as a defense weapon.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ and most of the Sig line of 1911's can be bought for less than $1000. I'm curious to see one of CZ's new 1911's since they also make Dan Wessons. Plus BEARDOG's post about those new lightweight Rugers is really tempting. Those are both relatively inexpensive but quality 1911's. But I'm still hoping that OP's new .45 says Kahr on the slide. :)

[OldLincoln]

But "Dirty Harry" shot a 44 Magnum. :)

Yeah he didn't have the manhood to carry the larger 45!! :behindsofa:

[b4uqzme]

Yeah he didn't have the manhood to carry the larger 45!! :behindsofa:

just .01 short??????

[Armybrat]

As Beardog was sayin' up above....

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1/tdyoung58/web%20linked/9mm-45acp.jpg

[Bawanna]

That's definitely gonna leave a mark!

[yqtszhj]

Ouch

[spikedog]

OK, so I ordered my gun $499 for a black one from Bud's

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[b4uqzme]

So we succeeded? Good job!

[JohnR]

Group hug!

Oh, sorry. That's for guys who bought a .40.

[Bill K]

OK, so I ordered my gun $499 for a black one from Bud's


So which one did you order? You mentioned P45 and PM45 in your OP.

[Armybrat]

I think Bud's lists the P45 for $499.

[spikedog]

The PM45

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[RRP]

The PM45


Nice price.

[spikedog]

Well I'm done gettting my stuff. I was able to get a set of Big Dots for $81 and a Wild Bill's holster for $60. This puts it at a total of $700 with the transfer fee. I mist admit, I am a little nervous installing the sites on the black gun. I've done the install on all my other Kahrs with out a problem. Any tips?

[Bawanna]

Patience weedhopper!

Good solid bench vise with good wood or rubber padding to protect slide.

Proper punch or take the time to make one. I've found that a flat punch almost like a flat screwdriver so you contact more of the sight base seems to help.

If you get the current sight to move, your golden, that's the challenge and since your replacing it, if it gets beat up or you have to cut it, no biggy.

Use the file and fine sandpaper to make the new sight fit properly and it's easy to install.

Some Kahr sights can just be a bear cat to get off, like they got a million ton press back there to push them in.

[b4uqzme]

Kudos to you for installing them yourself. I found it worthwhile to hire a gunsmith when my K40 needed sights. If they don't tap out easily with a punch, I don't mess with them.

[Bawanna]

Kudos to you for installing them yourself. I found it worthwhile to hire a gunsmith when my K40 needed sights. If they don't tap out easily with a punch, I don't mess with them.

There's some profound logic to this approach as well. They got the right stuff. I've been pretty lucky, installed a lot of sights for the guys here, I tell em it's risky but they just want em done so they prod me.

[EvanLee]

I'll survive with my .45!

The .45ACP cartridge is pure Americana at it's finest. We're talking baseball, hot dogs and apple pie.

Congrats on the new big bore. I carry my CW45 daily. It's the perfect size, shaped like a good used bar of soap and fits my paws as if it were made to order.

[spikedog]

Finally got it and the sights are on!
12180

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[spikedog]

12181

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[Bawanna]

Looks good to me, are you happy and ya know it?

[JohnR]

Congrats on the PM45! I was doing a 45 shoot-off the other day, trying to see which of my .45ACP children I like best. Five of the li'l brats. The PM45 was the 2nd most accurate in my hands.

[Armybrat]

VERY nice!

[yqtszhj]

that's a beauty

[groo01]

Groo here The thing about a pocket pistol [ any cal] is the loss of power. The short barrel looses speed [ about 10%] Whatever shell, will you get enough speed to get it to open/do what you want. In the smaller rounds , a +p or +p+ may be required to " get-er done" due to this loss. The larger 45 acp may not open in a shorter barrel but starts out bigger. Also , as a 45acp is a low pressure pressure round , even the +p or +p+/super,compared to a 9mm/+p +p+ 40S&W, the speed of the kick [ push vs snap] and the blast [ low pitch over hi pitch] will make it easier to shoot from a smaller lighter package for most people. Once the shooter gets over the idea that "Its A 45"

[JohnR]

...a .45 never shrinks... :D

[OldLincoln]

Groo here The thing about a pocket pistol [ any cal] is the loss of power. The short barrel looses speed [ about 10%] Whatever shell, will you get enough speed to get it to open/do what you want. In the smaller rounds , a +p or +p+ may be required to " get-er done" due to this loss. The larger 45 acp may not open in a shorter barrel but starts out bigger. Also , as a 45acp is a low pressure pressure round , even the +p or +p+/super,compared to a 9mm/+p +p+ 40S&W, the speed of the kick [ push vs snap] and the blast [ low pitch over hi pitch] will make it easier to shoot from a smaller lighter package for most people. Once the shooter gets over the idea that "Its A 45"

You're right, short barrels do give up speed for concealment. You may want to consider the longest barrel you can comfortably, completely conceal and draw without issues. I would never consider less than a +P even though it doesn't make up all the loss I'm betting my family's life so it's my best option. That said look into the HST +P and you'll find it was designed to blossom at short barrel speeds within the reasonable target range. Stats show the majority of street assault encounter happen in 7yds or less.

Also, the "super" 45 will likely snap pretty hard as that's a lot of mass to push that fast through 3". I can't begin to handle a 357 snap in a Kahr frame and get a follow up shot and I would guess that's more what you'd be looking at. Very few battles are won with 1 shot so I always measure effectiveness with 2 quick shots, even if not technically a double tap. As strategy in a fast attack with my first shot within 5 yards, I intend to get the first shot from the hip into the mass to slow them and the second aimed. I've practiced that and it works for me.

[Bawanna]

I focus on not putting the first round through my leg, (damn, sorry Wynn, that was a cheap shot).
After that rules are out the window and its always cheat, always win.

You got a solid plan there Old Lincoln, should work fine.

[JohnR]

I used to worry about 3" barrels slowing down a .45ACP bullet, but realized I wouldn't want to stand in front of one going 750 fps any more than one going 1000 fps.

Now, whether a hollow point expands enough or not, that's another question. Oh wait, no it's not. It still makes about a half inch hole even if it doesn't expand.

Lord, I love .45ACP.

[dbracin]

A half inch size hole is quite substantial!:Amflag2:

[Armybrat]

A half inch size hole is quite substantial!:Amflag2:

Lets more of the red stuff leak out.

[OldLincoln]

I focus on not putting the first round through my leg, (damn, sorry Wynn, that was a cheap shot).
After that rules are out the window and its always cheat, always win.

You got a solid plan there Old Lincoln, should work fine.

I hope I never have to find out, but it's the plan for the worst and hope for the best. Of course my range is serious against draw practice, so firing practice is starting from where the draw ends and raising the gun to shoot. My draw is seriously lacking so I hope the sob has a knife instead of a gun, makes a yell from 15', and falls down a time or two as he charges. :)

[groo01]

Groo here
You would not believe how fast a person can cover 20-30 ft.[ did this in a cop class]
Most people worry about how fast they can draw and shoot and/or how fast they can empty their gun [ aka follow up shots.]
The real winner will usually be who HITS first.
A good first hit will either cause the attacker to want to be somewhere else, or give you TIME to hit them again.
High cap guns and small bullets have caused this " shoot them a bunch" idea and training where as a revolver / low cap higher powered gun
forces you into the "aim small hit small" frame of mind. [learned this in another cop class]
This is why I tend toward the "one shot one hit" -- Old revolver shooter.

[Bawanna]

One of the things learned from that class, I did it too, was to think up a new plan. Going for the gun isn't always the best solution. A knife or hands blocking and moving sometimes works better until a good face shot presents itself.

I actually played bullfighter after I learned the gun wasn't always a good first choice. Rolled back as he ran at me, then turned at the last second so he went past and gave him an armrest to the nogging on his way by. Instructor loved it.
Play actor not so much although I didn't hit him that hard really. Least ways didn't mean too. I'm still sorry if you happen to be reading this.

[groo01]

Groo here
Yep "Strange" things happen in class.
My shooting pard walks with a cane [ bad legs from factory injury]
We were shooting a arms reach exercise , when the instructor yelled, my friend took the head off the target with the cane ,then drew and put one in the middle.
The instructor laughed so hard he almost fell.
Then said " I will have to show that to my older students"

[tomrkba]

But "Dirty Harry" shot a 44 Magnum. :)

Except Calahan said that he had 44 Special in it! (This was a mistake in the script.)