the perfect carry gun

[marcinstl]

I've posted messages here on Kahrtalk discussing various guns, I was looking for advice on how to hot rod the Kahr trigger into something more "Glocky", I've enjoyed reading reviews and the opinions of other shooters. thanks for Kahrtalk.
I have finally figured out what is the perfect carry gun. the gun(s) would be available in CW9 and CM9 sizes, have the same weights, same smooth double action revolver feeling triggers, same magazine availability--- the difference, the additional feature would be a cockable hammer so that the gun could be operated in SA. what's the point? the only time you'd ever thumb the hammer back for an SA shot is at the range. oh, just go buy a S&W 637 or a Ruger LCRx they have hammers. geesh, get a 1911 if ya need a hammer.

[Bawanna]

I love a hammer myself. If it has one I generally cock it. Being born a hundred years too late, I'm just a Single Action Army kind of guy.

The kid officers here kid me about it with the autos etc, but a guy can pull that hammer pretty durn quick if your accustomed to it.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my infinitely small mind around a CM or CW with a hammer though, small and not really shaped good for thumb cocking. Not that I sure wouldn't try if there was such a thing.

[JohnR]

Sounds like you want a very small DA/SA pistol. It might not be the caliber you want, but a Bersa .380 is about the size you're looking for, and is a hammer fired DA/SA. Some of the Sigs might fit your desires. How about a S&W Chief Special in 9mm?

I'd love a 9mm single stack DA/SA with decock only, the size of a PM9, but it seems the industry gave up on DA/SA designs in favor of striker fired pistols a long time ago.

[RRP]

I'd love a 9mm single stack DA/SA with decock only, the size of a PM9, but it seems the industry gave up on DA/SA designs in favor of striker fired pistols a long time ago.

Maybe a bit larger than you want, but worth a look.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p239.aspx

[jeepster09]

Maybe a bit larger than you want, but worth a look.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p239.aspx

I second the Sig 239....

[JohnR]

I'd love to try one of those out. Wish it came in .45.

[jeepster09]

Very close....220 COMPACT

[Barth]

Third vote for P239.
Mine's a factory 357 Sig.
Added a SRT kit and professional trigger job.
The DA is glassy and revolver like.
SA crisp and clean.

It's a little heavy and low capacity (single stack) compared to other guns.
But has low recoil, and carries well on a belt.

[O'Dell]

I too prefer hammer fired pistols. Of my fifteen hand guns only the four Kahrs are striker fired although a couple have stub hammers and can't be cocked.

[marcinstl]

I go to the range with a Kahr and put holes in the paper, mostly low and left. I know what I'm doing wrong. some of that I blame on the Kahr trigger. for me, Kahr is combat accurate and safe to carry.
Sometimes, I'll rent a striker fired, "single action" pistol and shoot better. better trigger for target shooting. for me, these guns are not safe for an aging and clumsy person to carry. I don't want to come on here and explain how I "Glocked myself".
Kahr could make a 7 or 8 shot 9mm revolver, poly/alloy/steel composite. I'd buy one. while I'm waiting I think I might look closer at a S&W 686 plus, kind of chunky, but they shoot nice.

[Bawanna]

I've wanted a 686 for quite awhile. I don't want the plus, just the regular 6 shooter and preferably one without an ignition key.

[Scarywoody]

I've always drooled over the Sig P239. But when it comes down to what I carry, I prefer a striker fired pistol.

[berettabone]

I'm still looking for a deal on a Sig P239 sas .40 cal.

[b4uqzme]

For a carry pistol? I happy with Kahrs and wouldn't change a thing. But I do like to carry a revolver = Ruger SP101. I know it's only five rounds but that keeps the cylinder real thin. A SW686+ would be cool tho but I doubt I'd actually carry it. I've also been pondering a Ruger LCR/LCRx but not sure whether I prefer the hammer vs. the .357. Kahrs and the SP101 are the only guns I carry or even own holsters for. They're as close to perfect as I've been able to find.

[marcinstl]

I was at the range one time and I guess I was having some sort of testosterone flash back, I rented a S&W340pd and got a box of Federal .357 practice ammo. 12oz., no hammer, .357.
it was not a joy to shoot. left a red mark on my trigger finger. wrist was feeling the pain. I got that out of my system, not going there again. I've shot the same ammo out of an SP101, 26oz. and it was ok.
shot the same ammo out of a 3" GP100, 36oz. and that was good. a loaded GP100(for example) weighs about the same as my loaded Ruger P89. 6 .357's vs 16 9mm could be a consideration?
the way I'm thinking, a gun fight starts out with a massive surge of anger and adrenaline, the gun has to come out of the holster, get on target(point shooting the first rounds) and fire. first accurate shot is a good way to win. does it really matter if the bullets are 9mm coming from an appendix carried Kahr or from a shirt pocket carried P-32(73gr. FMJ)? does a 19 shot CZ win over a 5 shot Ruger? I could lose a gun fight because I forgot I was carrying the P-32. I could lose a gun fight by shooting myself with a "fast action- safety trigger"(die of embarrassment).
OK, I'm going back to the range with the Kahr's (CW9, CM9), get the target with the bad guy holding the hostage babe and really try not to shoot both of them. practice, practice.

[JohnR]

Average gunfight, 3 rounds, 3 seconds, 3 yards; something like that. Caliber matters not. Carry and shoot what makes you feel good (and safe). I recently read that 95% of encounters are 7 yards or less.

[marcinstl]

JohnR, hey, Bersaguy, hows that BP9 running? ya shot yourself yet? hehehehehe. when you were looking at Bersa's did you look at the thunder 9 uc? that's a smaller, lighter weight gun than my Ruger P89(tank). I'd almost be tempted to look at the .45 version. ever shoot one? trigger?

[JohnR]

Over 700 rounds, no Bersa leg. I have the BP9cc, and the alloy framed 45UC, 9UC, and 9HC models. They are all great guns. The 45 is sweet - great trigger and light weight with low recoil, but it's fat. They're all fat thanks to the staggered magazines, but they're much prettier than Gloques. The 9UC is a skosh smaller than the 45, but with 14 rounds on board (compared to 8 45ACP rounds) it's heavier when loaded.

I like the 9HC better than my Ruger P94. Much much better trigger on the Bersa, and more ergonomic in the hand. Both hold 17+1 (I got aftermarket mags for the Ruger).

For a size comparison, the Bersa 9HC is the size of a 1911 Commander, but with a fatter grip.

Of all my Bersas, I carry the BP9cc. The others are great, but not for carry due to the thickness and weight.

[marcinstl]

JohnR, thanks for the reviews. if my P89 was DAO, I would have sold it, the DA first pull is not up to Kahr standards, the following SA pulls are ok. the gun is a truck('54 GMC 3/4ton). I watched some youtube reviews of the 9UC and they were talking about a long, heavy, smooth, grit free DA pull, short reset and a 4lbs. SA pull. I like the decocker for going back to DA or just going to safety. this is way more my kind of gun than a Glocky thing. at 1.45" wide that's still thinner than a K or L frame S&W (1.56"). I IWB carry at 1 o'clock and there plenty of real estate there to hide a gun(fat guy, w/fat gun). I'm going to ask around at the range, see if somebody has one I can shoot

[JohnR]

The width dimension for the Bersas is at the levers, which are on both sides and stick out mayby 1/8" on each side. I.e., the grip isn't as wide as that dimension. Still, it's a thickish grip.

[marcinstl]

[QUOTE=JohnR;330472]Sounds like you want a very small DA/SA pistol. It might not be the caliber you want, but a Bersa .380 is about the size you're looking for, and is a hammer fired DA/SA. Some of the Sigs might fit your desires. How about a S&W Chief Special in 9mm?

grandpa died and left his beloved S&W CS9 to the grandkid, who traded it in on a Glock. I was the next person thru the door at the gun shop and now the CS9 is mine. wonderful dream huh? have to be optimistic.
when I go to the range, I roll the target out to 3 yards, snatch the P-32 out of my shirt pocket and empty it. 11 shots of 73gr. FMJ mostly in the center of the target. a lot of people will tell you .32acp isn't going to win a gun fight, but I haven't found anybody who wants to hold the target. moving up to a 95gr. .380 bumps the muzzle energy up to 200 ft. lbs., from 150ft. lbs. (.38spl is about 270 ft. lbs. and a 9mm is about 340 ft. lbs.--- example only averages from Ballistics101.com).
I was over looking at the Bersa site and noticed the Bersa Thunder .380 Plus. 20 0z. empty, PPK looks, double stack, holds 15+1. high capacity .380? there's a concept to ponder.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ yes, but I don't think it's the perfect carry gun. All things considered (especially price/affordability) I think a CM9 is about as perfect as they come. Even I don't own one.

[JohnR]

The Thunder Plus feels good in my hand, but I'd get the regular model for thinness and concealment. Never shot their .380s but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

[hardluk1]

Might as well get a colt lite weight commander in 38 super . Weighs is less than the 686 + with a 4" barrel , has rounds and same velocity and energy levels . Get the hammer and a good trigger. hehehe I miss carry'n my tp40. Shoot it well and it handles hot loads well . My hand ain't worth a darn any more . Had to have a wider grip and softer shooter so picked up a m&p40 with safety , added a apex fss trigger kit and now have a soft shooter with a great trigger .

I'll leave my 357 for hunting .

[marcinstl]

for me, it's a toss up, CM9 or CW9, like and carry both of them.
(if your reading the news it seems like high capacity guns are favored by badguys and LE. on the N. side of STL, "put the Wilson on him" means 12 or more rounds fired. in the worst case scenario of being attacked by multiple thugs, any shots fired in their direction is going to change their plan, if one thug goes down the rest are running away. )

[ltxi]

For me, there is no all purpose perfect carry gun. That be why I have several. Concealed especially, it's dress/situational dependent. For that purpose mine are .22 mag NAA mini to .45 1911. If I could only have one...hard 'cause I've never had to consider it...my PM9 would most likely be my general purpose choice.

[marcinstl]

did you ever see the person, in a ccw class or in a gun store who was shopping for one gun to carry, no real interest in sport shooting or guns? Cabela's sold a lot of Taurus .380's(one 7 round mag) to these people. $200 for the permit, $225 for the gun, $20 for ammo. most of those people carried for a week or so, now the gun is in the drawer.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ Hey, at least they gave it a go. :)

[marcinstl]

well, just as an experiment, I got a DA/SA in .38spl., yes, it's a revolver. I can squeeze the trigger and get off a shot, cock the hammer and get off a shot. I didn't want to go big money the first time so I got a budget gun, Armscor M206, built by the same folks that produce the RIA 1911's. fit and finish isn't what you'd get in an $800 gun, but good enough to carry and take to the range. when I do the first full cleaning, I'll give the insides a polish, leave the springs stock. have to say, so far, revolvers are fun.