I joined the broken striker club

[gun papa]

I know there is a thread on broken strikers here, but I feel the need to add a new thread. My CW 380, RH serial numbers. I would guess has about 700 rds through it. I have never dry fired the gun unless a snap cap was in place. I must have snap cap dry fired this gun about 1000 times. I fired a box of PPU yesterday. I had one round not go off and it had a light primer strike. The round went off when I rechambered the gun. Figured hard primers.

I came home and gave the gun a total strip and cleaning, ala, took the slide apart and cleaned, checked everything. I gave extra attention to the striker. I checked it, tugged on it. Looked fine. Not a lot of meat there, but otherwise looked good. Put the super clean gun back together and all was well.

I put the Azoom snap cap back in, and dry fired while watching TV. Fine for about 15 pulls of the trigger, then the gun made an odd sound. No snap, but a "Pphff". Reset, and again, "Pphff". I stripped the slide and I have a broken striker.

It seems like the striker could easily redesigned with a little more strength in the area of breakage. I have sent an email to jay.dandrea@kahr.com about it. Is that the right email? I would like this fixed. I love the gun.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/gunpapa/Mobile%20Uploads/20150121_070318_zpsacea4c33.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/gunpapa/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150121_070318_zpsacea4c33.jpg.html)

[gun papa]

Update: I contacted Kahr's Service Dept by phone 508-795-3919. They are processing the warranty part order, and will ship me the striker to get me up and running. That works. I love this little gun.

[topgun1953]

I love my P380! Sorry you had to deal with the problem. I think they've seen enough of them now that they don't quibble about replacing them. I have several hundred rounds through mine since striker replacement last May and close to a gazillion dry fires with snap caps! Just ordered new springs and extractor yesterday. Almost ordered a backup striker but figured if it breaks, they'll cover it. :cool:

[gun papa]

This is the best close up attempt I could muster.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/gunpapa/IMG_1565_zpsb6ebd1b2.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/gunpapa/media/IMG_1565_zpsb6ebd1b2.jpg.html)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/gunpapa/IMG_1552_zps75fb6fb4.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/gunpapa/media/IMG_1552_zps75fb6fb4.jpg.html)

[gun papa]

I too love my gun. I cannot see anything that can replace it. It has been a great gun. I plan on shooting the Hell out of it some more.

[gun papa]

It appears to me that they could beef up this area of breakage. Thicken it up a bit just under the spring stop, without any issues in design. If Kahr doesn't do it, there is room in the market for an aftermarket striker. That would solve all of my issues with the gun entirely.

[RRP]

So, the 50,000 dollar question is has Kahr made design improvements to the part, or will the replacement striker be the same as the one that broke? Please compare and let us know.

If the striker has not been improved, how confident will you be carrying this pistol, knowing the striker is the weak link and is likely to fail again?

[timboy]

Man,I am not liking all of these broken strikers popping up,I hope they make a change in the materials or design!
This is an unacceptable failure in a self defense handgun,what if it breaks when you need it most!
How do they appear to be made,are the cast,mim,or??

[gun papa]

I do not know the make up, but I assume the striker is a MIM part. Shouldn't be. I have heard no updates in design or production. I think that Kahr could easily fix this issue. As of now, I only carry the gun where it would generally be difficult to carry something else. That is the niche that the gun fills. Up to now the gun has performed pretty well for me.

As you can see, there is not a lot of material at a critical point in a critical part.

I am going to write a letter to Kahr about this issue, with hopes that this problem of breakage is resolved.

[z8894]

I really like my CW380. It meets my carry requirements. It's very accurate for it's size. My striker broke just like yours. Seems a little more metal in the area could prevent the problem. At least the fix is cheap and easy but it could fail again at a very inappropriate time. I too hope the problem will be addressed.

[gun papa]

We need to do a writing campaign of all of us with this issue and maybe Kahr will take notice.

[Armybrat]

Well crap - I've dry fired (without a snapcap) my new CT380 a couple dozen times since getting it last month. Guess that's gonna stop right now. Haven't even taken it to the range yet.

[aferguson27]

With over 300 round in my cw380 with the serial starting with RH makes me think twice on trusting it and staying with my cm9.

[gun papa]

Well crap - I've dry fired (without a snapcap) my new CT380 a couple dozen times since getting it last month. Guess that's gonna stop right now. Haven't even taken it to the range yet.

When my Wife got her P380, I dry fired the Hell out of it bareback, with no snap cap. Hundreds of times. It also has about 700 rds through it. No broken striker so far.

[topgun1953]

The second time my striker broke on my p380, Kahr also replaced the slide. Makes me wonder if something was faulty about the channel.

[Nytcrawler93]

So, somebody needs to make an aftermarket forged part.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sharpetop]

I asked this in another thread. Does anybody have a serial number range for the defective strikers? This completely unacceptable IMHO.

I just checked my serial number. It too is an RH series. It's now restricted to the safe until this issue is fixed.

[topgun1953]

My CW is RH while my P is RD.

[aferguson27]

Has anyone contacted Kahr direct and asked them about the problem? I would like to know if it is a bad batch of strikers that went out or slides in the RH cw380 but this holds the question will they admit it.

[timboy]

Well I just checked my serial # and mine is an RH so I will be watching these striker threads very closely.
Might pick up an LCP in the meantime for good measure,Kahr is really dissapointing me with these CW380 issues!

[gun papa]

The striker breaking has been my only serious issue since buying it. I love the gun, but Kahr needs to correct the obvious issue here.

[RRP]

Has anyone contacted Kahr direct and asked them about the problem? I would like to know if it is a bad batch of strikers that went out or slides in the RH cw380 but this holds the question will they admit it.

Kahr has always been good about replacing parts and fixing problems with their guns--often without regard to the warranty period. I expect they will provide the same good service for broken strikers. But, I don't expect they will publicly acknowledge the problem, nor will they issue a recall. Just my opinion, of course.

[topgun1953]

Okay enough is enough. The striker on my P380 broke this evening. That is #3 for this weapon. I'm speechless. I'll be composing a letter to Kahr.

[z8894]

Serial number RH7xxx on my CW380

[aferguson27]

RRP you are right Kahr has always step up and provide great service. I just want a gun I can trust and I hope I never have to use it for self defense but if that day does come I want to know it's going to work.

[RRP]

RRP you are right Kahr has always step up and provide great service. I just want a gun I can trust and I hope I never have to use it for self defense but if that day does come I want to know it's going to work.

Understood. And, a reasonable expectation.

[aferguson27]

I sent a email to them this morning with no answer yet.

[gun papa]

Could it be possible that Kahr has no idea that the Kahr 380's are having issues with broken strikers?
This is an email exchange when I advised about the broken striker. Kahr was quick to respond and are sending out a replacement. I deleted my name and unimportant info.



From: gun papa
To: jay.dandrea@kahr.com
Date: 01/23/2015 09:37 AM
Subject: Re: CW380 broken striker RH serial numbers





It appears that broken strikers are not an anomaly in the 380
Kahrs. Do you know if any changes to design, materials, or methods are in
the works? I will have to locate the interview, but I remember a Kahr
spokesman stating "all forged" pistol. The way my striker is broken, it
appears to be MIM. Bad Choice for a striker. I love this gun, but I need
to rely on it.

Reply from Kahr customer service

Jay D'Andrea
Customer Service
508-795- 3919

Good evening. I am not aware of any problems with the strikers nor am I
aware of any changes. We will have one sent ASAP. I apologize for any
inconvenience.

[timboy]

Well you didn't really expect them to fess up did you,but I am sure they will happily keep sending out replacements to all of the people who"are not having any problems"with their strikers breaking.
Totally unacceptable,at least Ruger and other companies will own up to thier mistakes and issue recalls,Kahr take some notes.

[gun papa]

Actually, yes. I did expect them to fess up. Tell me they are working on correcting the issue.

[RRP]

Reply from Kahr customer service

Jay D'Andrea
Customer Service
508-795- 3919

Good evening. I am not aware of any problems with the strikers nor am I
aware of any changes. We will have one sent ASAP. I apologize for any
inconvenience.

Well that confirms my prediction in post #22, which I pasted below.


Kahr has always been good about replacing parts and fixing problems with their guns--often without regard to the warranty period. I expect they will provide the same good service for broken strikers. But, I don't expect they will publicly acknowledge the problem, nor will they issue a recall. Just my opinion, of course.

[gun papa]

If that is true, it is a shame. The Kahr 380 has potential, mine at least, to be an exceptional pistol. I would buy an upgraded striker if that is what it took.

[Pointblank]

With thousands of these 380s being sold and only a handful of complaints here I am wondering if this is only happening to people who detail strip their pistols.

[topgun1953]

I have sent them an email asking them to report just what is going on and what corrective measures they are taking. I sent it to 'service' and 'sales'. Heck, I've experienced 4 failures.

[dbracin]

With thousands of these 380s being sold and only a handful of complaints here I am wondering if this is only happening to people who detail strip their pistols.
Detail stripping shouldn't cause a part to break.

[topgun1953]

I had a failure in my CW before I knew what detailed strip was and two in my P before I had detailed stripped. Don't see why that would be a factor.

[Whaleman]

My P380 striker broke about round 400. Sent in and 500 rounds later it is running perfect. Dan

[Pointblank]

Detail stripping shouldn't cause a part to break.

The more you take something completely apart and put it back together, the more you invite Murphy in. I believe in field stripping and leaving the rest to certified gunsmiths. This system has worked for me for over fifty years.

[gun papa]

The more you take something completely apart and put it back together, the more you invite Murphy in. I believe in field stripping and leaving the rest to certified gunsmiths. This system has worked for me for over fifty years.

There is no stress placed on the striker when stripping or assembling the slide.

[gun papa]

In my 36 years of shooting, and owning more guns in my lifetime than I could count, I have only had one other striker/ firing pin fail, and that was a Ruger MKII that had maybe 30K rounds through her.

I was formerly my agency's armorer for 8 years. Most of our guns were conversions from the Sheriff department's case destruction list. Every gun pulled and converted was detail stripped and certified for use. I have replaced worn parts, but I only remember a broken extractor in all of that time, and many guns.

That breakage was not from detail stripping, but from fatigue through use.

[aferguson27]

This is the email I got back from kahr.


Good evening. We have not seen a lot of strikers breaking nor should you have to worry about reliability. I hope this information helps.

Jay D'Andrea
Customer Service
508-795- 3919
www.kahr.com
www.tommygun.com
www.magnumresearch.com

[dbracin]

The broken part looks to be a defective part, most likely from the manufactoring process. Not disassembley and cleaning.

[topgun1953]

This is the email I got back from kahr.


Good evening. We have not seen a lot of strikers breaking nor should you have to worry about reliability. I hope this information helps.

Jay D'Andrea
Customer Service
508-795- 3919 (tel:508-795- 3919)
www.kahr.com (http://www.kahr.com)
www.tommygun.com (http://www.tommygun.com)
www.magnumresearch.com (http://www.magnumresearch.com)

i guess then, I can expect a similar response. I ordered new springs from KAHR last week. I had a striker in the shopping cart, but took it out because I didn't think It should fail. Sure enough, as posted earlier, it failed Friday. As a reminder...number 3 for this particular P380 during a year's ownership. Everything is fine, nothing to see here. I agree with gun papa, these 380's can be a great gun but...

[aferguson27]

Looks like a smith or ruger soon for me. Hate the trigger on both but they will work when I need them.

[gun papa]

Can someone post a picture of a striker from another Kahr model caliber? Curious to see the difference.

[topgun1953]

Kahr just sent me a shipping label today. No response to my question regarding reliability and redesign of the striker. Dropped it off at FedEx with the broken striker in a baggy. Hope they don't mind that I removed it. With the storm up there, they probably won't get it until Thursday/Friday.

[Baklash]

Are these striker break problems specific to the 380 or are other models also breaking?

[aferguson27]

Just the 380. I've got cw 9 and cm9 with over 800 rounds without a problem

[gun papa]

I received and installed my new striker, which arrived quickly from Kahr. If it were not so crappy outside, I would go shoot it. I have have to content with snap cap dry fire.

[2tango2]

Is there a specific serial# range for CW380s with this issue or will all eventually fail? I've been carrying it lately and would like hell for the striker to break when I need it if the shtf

[sharpetop]

Is there a specific serial# range for CW380s with this issue or will all eventually fail? I've been carrying it lately and would like hell for the striker to break when I need it if the shtf

So far I think serial numbers beginning with RH are the culprits.

[aferguson27]

As far as I know it's the RH.

[2tango2]

Awesome just checked mine....RH.....so I guess I won't be carrying this anymore.....not knowing when it's going to crap out isn't building confidence.

Is this one of those cases not a matter if it's going to break. Just a question of when?

[aferguson27]

I'm in the same boat ur in. I've got over 300 rounds through my cw380. It may never happen or it might.

[RRP]

Is this one of those cases not a matter if it's going to break. Just a question of when?

We, the customer, don't have enough information to make that determination.

All the striker failure reports I've seen posted here have involved RH series guns. But, we don't know how many RH guns were manufactured, what percentage of those have failed already, what the round count of those failed guns was, whether the RH series involved a redesign that is contributing to this problem, whether striker failure has occurred in guns other than RH, etc. We simply do not have sufficient data to make an informed determination. We can have an opinion on the matter, and there is no shortage of those expressed on KT. But, no matter how convincing some of our posts may be, they are not grounded in real data. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions based on emotion or based on the opinions of others.

Kahr has not acknowledged a problem with strikers. We know some have failed. Each practitioner will have to reach their own conclusions on whether or not the failure rate is statistically significant, and decide for themselves whether or not their gun is reliable.

[topgun1953]

We, the customer, don't have enough information to make that determination.

All the striker failure reports I've seen posted here have involved RH series guns. But, we don't know how many RH guns were manufactured, what percentage of those have failed already, what the round count of those failed guns was, whether the RH series involved a redesign that is contributing to this problem, whether striker failure has occurred in guns other than RH, etc. We simply do not have sufficient data to make an informed determination. We can have an opinion on the matter, and there is no shortage of those expressed on KT. But, no matter how convincing some of our posts may be, they are not grounded in real data. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions based on emotion or based on the opinions of others.

Kahr has not acknowledged a problem with strikers. We know some have failed. Each practitioner will have to reach their own conclusions on whether or not the failure rate is statistically significant, and decide for themselves whether or not their gun is reliable.

yes, very true. This practioner however, had a RH CW that experienced a failure and he currently has a RD P380 on its way to Kahr to have its THIRD striker replaced...purchased 1/14 with failures in May, June, and last week. I love the gun, but it's on its way to becoming a 'range' gun only

[BuzzBomb414]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the manual say it's ok to dry fire? Or is it better to be safe than sorry and use snap caps?

[RRP]

yes, very true. This practioner however, had a RH CW that experienced a failure and he currently has a RD P380 on its way to Kahr to have its THIRD striker replaced...purchased 1/14 with failures in May, June, and last week. I love the gun, but it's on its way to becoming a 'range' gun only

We are in full agreement. That is precisely what I meant when I posted this:

~ Each practitioner will have to reach their own conclusions on whether or not the failure rate is statistically significant, and decide for themselves whether or not their gun is reliable.

[gun papa]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the manual say it's ok to dry fire? Or is it better to be safe than sorry and use snap caps?

In my case, I never dry fired the pistol without a snap cap, still got a broken striker.

[BuzzBomb414]

In my case, I never dry fired the pistol without a snap cap, still got a broken striker.
Is it possible that the snap caps are the problem or contributing? I checked and according to Kahrs website, dry firing is ok.

[gun papa]

Is it possible that the snap caps are the problem or contributing? I checked and according to Kahrs website, dry firing is ok.
I would doubt it. They are a soft resistance. Kahr also says that they are having no issues with broken strikers.
I am again carrying this gun after repair.

[2tango2]

Did Kahr ever acknowledge the issue with the short rails on the CW45 or did they quietly agree to fix ones that people noticed? In other words yeah they know about it but mums the word unless the customer discovers it. Heck if you aren't part of forums you'd probably never notice.

Maybe ignorance is bliss in this case but I probably won't carry my CW380 knowing there is a chance a known issue with some RH guns could have it fail at the worst time.

Guess I'll be getting a PJ holster for my Sig P238

[2tango2]

Then again maybe this a perfect excuse to get a CT380 [emoji12]

[aferguson27]

My cw380 is always near me but my cm 9 stays on me at all time.

[topgun1953]

We're only speculating, but they might have gotten a bad lot of strikers. Yes, I had a RH CW380, but I also have a P380 which has experienced three broken strikers. I never used snap caps until the second failure. I now use them all the time but had this recent break. Kahr replaced the slide after the second failure. BTW. Mine is out for delivery at Kahr today. It finally made it through the storm. Like gun papa, I'll still carry it. I noticed I started getting some misfires prior to the breakage, so if that's starts again it's time for striker inspection.

[gun papa]

I noticed I started getting some misfires prior to the breakage, so if that's starts again it's time for striker inspection.

This may be key. I never experience a light primer strike until just before the breaking of the striker.

[sharpetop]

My CW380 is in the safe until this issue is resolved. If Kahr waits too long the gun will go bye-bye and I will opt for something else that is pocketable. Although they are a bit larger, this is why the J-Frames are so popular.

[gun papa]

If the problem was RH strikers, what did they replace my broken one with? Hopefully a newer made striker?

[RRP]

If the problem was RH strikers, what did they replace my broken one with? Hopefully a newer made striker?

One would hope. But how does that explain those who have broken 3 strikers? Or 4?

[gun papa]

One would hope. But how does that explain those who have broken 3 strikers? Or 4?
So the issue my not just be an RH issue.

[topgun1953]

I got a call from Kahr today regarding my P380 and its third broken striker. We discussed the ammo I was using but really didn't come up with a cause. They were just as confused as I am. I mentioned the design and the concern of 380 owners to him. I didn't get a sense that they are experiencing a large problem but are genuinely interested in determining why I had so many failures. I've used almost exclusively Freedom Munitions. It seems to be a hot round as I get a lot more felt recoil with it as compared to say, blazer brass. I was also asked if I ever inspected a casing to see if the striker was going through the primer..I havent. He (Jeff) fired 100 rounds through it and commented it fired like a dream..it does... It's on it's way home with a new striker so can't wait for it because I miss it. :p I think I'll stay away from Freedom for a while as a precaution.

[timboy]

I suspect that they know more than they let on.

[RRP]

I suspect that they know more than they let on.

That may be true. Or, they may still be trying to figure it out. At least they are asking questions of customers and gathering information. That's a sign they are taking this seriously and looking for a cause/solution.

[z8894]

I got a call from Kahr today regarding my P380 and its third broken striker. We discussed the ammo I was using but really didn't come up with a cause. They were just as confused as I am. I mentioned the design and the concern of 380 owners to him. I didn't get a sense that they are experiencing a large problem but are genuinely interested in determining why I had so many failures. I've used almost exclusively Freedom Munitions. It seems to be a hot round as I get a lot more felt recoil with it as compared to say, blazer brass. I was also asked if I ever inspected a casing to see if the striker was going through the primer..I havent. He (Jeff) fired 100 rounds through it and commented it fired like a dream..it does... It's on it's way home with a new striker so can't wait for it because I miss it. :p I think I'll stay away from Freedom for a while as a precaution.

I was using Freedom Munitions 100 grain RNFP when the stiker broke. They fed fine but but the recoil was much more than the varieties of 95 grain I had been using. They were a good deal and I bought 500 for my wife's Glock 42. She didn't like them because of the recoil. She likes the Blazer Brass too.

[gun papa]

I fired 50 rds of PPU and recovered all of the brass. The gun performed as it has, feeding and firing as normal. Slide lock continues to be intermittent.
Primer strikes appear to be good. I am going to shoot 50 rds of WWB to compare primer strikes.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/gunpapa/Mobile%20Uploads/20150204_185859_zpsjk7j5fbp.jpg

[2tango2]

PPU and PMC seem to run best in my CW380

[pr42]

I own a CW380, serial number RH8972, which I purchased last summer. It has had a good few hundred rounds through it (haven't kept count), and it is working fine. The occasional case of the slide locking back before the magazine is empty, but mostly ok. Obviously I would be concerned about the possibility of my striker failing randomly (and I'll certainly be keeping a closer eye on it from here on out), but a couple of things occur to me regarding this thread.

1. There is danger in extrapolating from small datasets. Yes, a number of people here have had problems, I'm not denying that at all (or minimizing the hassle caused to the owners), but there's a chance this could just be a case of "internet hysteria". This is one of those things that tends to happen, particularly with online communities. The internet is a place where people can easily find others who are having the same issue as themselves (be it guns, or cars, or personal health, etc). When you see one, or two, or three other people posting "Yeah I had the same thing happen to me", then it's easy to extrapolate that to be a "trend". But that doesn't mean it is actually a trend; it could just be a self-selecting sample group that is artificially amplifying the issue via our own little echo chamber. It certainly doesn't help when the company in question doesn't seem responsive, but that leads me onto the second observation...

2. These days you will very rarely see companies openly admit to something being wrong with one of their products, for one simple reason: It opens them up to litigation. If a company admits anything, even if they fix it and then apologise in retrospect, that can be seen as admission of negligence or wrongdoing, so they dance around (sometimes to a seemingly ludicrous degree) avoiding actually admitting anything is wrong. This isn't due to any deliberate slipperiness on their part (most of the time); they are normal people like you and me, but they have been told by their lawyers that if they say anything in public that could be construed as an admission of a problem, then that opens them up to lawsuits. And once that admission is "out there", they *will* lose in court, it's like open season for the lawyers.

3. As for the possibility of a recall, that would probably be a last resort for any company, since it is most likely VERY expensive for them to undertake such an operation, because instead of replacing the failing products as they come up from individual customers, now they have to replace ALL of them, pro-actively. There would also be a much bigger hit to their public image, as this would now be "official", with press releases in the permanent record, and possibly impact on their insurance, and news stories everywhere. Recalls are mostly used for SAFETY issues, whereby the failure in question could cause serious injury or loss of life. Like the Springfield Armory XD-S recall, that was related to the gun actually firing when shouldn't have - obviously a potentially lethal safety issue. But a bad batch of strikers isn't going to kill anyone (well, not directly, anyway) - all that happens is that the gun doesn't go bang, that never killed anyone. Of course if you are using the gun in a self defense scenario and it malfunctions then THAT is pretty darn serious, but it's more indirect, if you catch my drift.

Look at it this way: If you were a company like Kahr, what would you rather have - a thread on a forum site like this one where a few people rant about their problems (and the thread eventually fades away into the archives of that one site), or a formal recall with news stories in multiple publications that is now in the permanent public record? If there is indeed a problem with a bad batch of strikers, then you can bet they are hoping they can fix it with just good old fashioned customer service, and also hoping it all dies down naturally as the bad batch of strikers works itself out through the system of replacement. It's actually a reasonable approach, when you think about it, even though it is undeniably frustrating when you can see there is a problem (e.g. the people who have had three failed strikers are no doubt convinced there is something going on here), and yet the company continues to say they aren't aware of anything. Give them a break, it's not their fault, it's the fault of the legal system that we have in place today. Acting like a real person, and just talking openly about such things, is an invitation to lawsuits. Sad, but the way of the world these days.

[gun papa]

I love the gun, first off. I would love for Kahr to release a new/improved striker. I would buy it. No rants here. regarding data points: I have never seen any firearm experience this many striker/firing pin failures with the exception of the CZ52. Never.

I would love to know Kahr is working on it. Having a gun fire when it shouldn't is obviously dangerous, ala XD, but I think having a firearm downright break at the time of need puts lives at stake too. Understand that many people, my Wife and I included use/purchase these guns primarily for self defense.

The gun has great potential. I am firmly in the cheering section. It does however have a terrible weak spot that I yearn to see resolved.

[topgun1953]

ditto what gun papa said. I love shooting my P380 and would love to see an improved striker. If you look at the current part, the metal is quite thin in the spot which it breaks. I look at it and wonder how it holds up to even a few rounds.

[pcv57]

I agree that forums can lead people to draw the wrong conclusions sometimes. If you're happy you tell one person, if you're unhappy you tell everyone. However, this is about Kahr doing the right thing. If there is a known problem with these strikers (my P380 is at Kahr right now due to light strikes, RA serial #) Kahr can do a recall and get some negative press or they can wait for someone to lose their life due to a striker failure and see what the press is like. They can simply call GM or Toyota to find out

[pr42]

I agree that forums can lead people to draw the wrong conclusions sometimes. If you're happy you tell one person, if you're unhappy you tell everyone. However, this is about Kahr doing the right thing. If there is a known problem with these strikers (my P380 is at Kahr right now due to light strikes, RA serial #) Kahr can do a recall and get some negative press or they can wait for someone to lose their life due to a striker failure and see what the press is like. They can simply call GM or Toyota to find out

Yeah, to be clear I am in no way associated with Kahr (it occurred to me that my username, with "pr" in it, might lead some people to assume that I'm some kind of public relations shill). I'm just an ordinary citizen like all of you good people. My earlier post was just a general comment on some possible reasons why you don't see companies just coming out and discussing these things openly, like any normal person would. It's a legal minefield out there for companies when it comes to making public comments regarding, well, just about anything these days. Anything they admit with regard to faulty strikers could be seen by a court as an admission of fault, which would open them up to lawsuits that they probably would lose, since their "admission" is already in the public record. I know it sounds absurd, but that's our legal system - it does lead to some silly behavior.

And, even if there is a problem, my other comment about product recalls still holds true: This is not a safety issue, at least not in the most direct sense. OF COURSE, I realize that if your gun doesn't go off when you need it to then that can be a real safety issue, but can you see that it's more indirect - a gun NOT going off when it should is not the same as a gun going off when it shouldn't.

Of course, that's assuming there is actually a broader problem here (e.g. the "bad batch" theory), and it's not just the "forum echo chamber" effect. It's true that people are more likely to come onto a forum to talk about stuff they think is wrong, than when everything is just peachy. Who searches out the Kahr forum just to say "Welp, my striker's still working fine!". People who are having a problem will probably google for others having similar problems, so it stands to reason that if there are 10 people all having the same issue, then they will very likely all find the same forum thread and congregate here. So then you have 10 people all saying there is a problem, but in reality it might just be those 10 people, out of many thousands of guns sold... which might just be a fraction of 1% of the total... which might be completely normal in terms of statistical failures. So you could see how this might be a little confusing to Kahr, if they know that they aren't getting anything out of the ordinary in terms of number of complaints, and yet there's this forum thread where "everybody" seems to be talking about it. Just one person making a noise can be amplified out of all proportion, due to the forum chorus effect - the first person has an issue, so they post about it, and just by the laws of statistics there are probably at least one or two other people out there who also had the same kind of issue, so they chime in, and bada bing, there you have it: A "trend". I don't know, I'm just saying it's another possibility. And again, I'm not trying to minimize anybody's issues here - it's quite possible there IS an issue, I'm just thinking out loud about how things aren't always what they might seem. If my CW380's stiker breaks suddenly then you can bet I'll add my voice to the chorus! :p

[topgun1953]

I agree that forums can lead people to draw the wrong conclusions sometimes. If you're happy you tell one person, if you're unhappy you tell everyone. However, this is about Kahr doing the right thing. If there is a known problem with these strikers (my P380 is at Kahr right now due to light strikes, RA serial #) Kahr can do a recall and get some negative press or they can wait for someone to lose their life due to a striker failure and see what the press is like. They can simply call GM or Toyota to find out

when you contact Kahr, express your concern for the number of striker failures that are cropping up. If enough of us do so, then perhaps there will be changes. They might be working on the situation right now but we have no way of knowing.

[Chaplain]

I recently added a p380 to my collection. It is a good intermediate step between my .32 Seecamp and My Kahr PM9. The striker issue on the 380 causes some concern.

My p380 was so 'tight' when I got it out of the box that I could only get the slide off the frame with great difficulty. Shooting 300 rounds has loosened things up a bit. But, it is still 'tight'. One thing I notice is that on range session of 100 rounds of Winchester White Box or (gasp!) Tula steel case ammo, I get an occasional FTFire. The primers are dented, but don't quite go off. This has NEVER happened with the carry ammo (Hornady Critical Defense FXT).

Last trip to the range I had two rounds that did not fire the first strike towards the end of the 100 rounds of the Tula steel case el-cheapo ammo. After reading here about broken strikers I decided to detail strip the slide just to inspect. I had done this once before just to make sure everything was clean. When I had everything apart I found two small brass chips on the white cloth under the work area. The point is I had very thoroughly cleaned the slide (without disassembly) twice since I used brass cased ammo. Also, the chips looked curved. They were to small and too thin for me to determine if curve was about the same as the main body of the striker.

A close examination of the striker showed some burnishing or polishing on the forward bottom of the main body. I don't recall that from the last disassembly, but I wasn't looking for it.

Hypothesis: perhaps brass shavings are finding their way into the striker channel (perhaps around the extractor?) and this is having two effects:
1. causing an occasional light strike, causing FTFire.
2. this debris in the striker channel my be inducing dynamic stress on the striker, eventually causing the part to fail in some circumstances.

There may be nothing 'wrong' with the part, or the design, other than everything is to really tight tolerances.

I cleaned everything out really well. I used a Q-Tip chucked in a drill with some Mother's Mag Wheel polish to get the striker channel really clean. There may have been a few more flecks of things in the cotton when I pulled it out.

I'll put another 100 rounds down range when I get the chance, and see if I have any more light strikes, and then detail strip again and see if there is any debris accumulation in the striker channel.

It seems to me that some reports of multiple striker breaks in the same gun indicates that the broken striker is a symptom of some other problem. Either something else is out of spec.; or, something else is causing stress on the part.

[topgun1953]

I think it's the way I pull the trigger. :) . Kahr actually replaced the slide after the second break. After I got mine back after its third break, I put about 150 rounds through it And detailed stripped the slide. I noticed some wear where the striker spacer 'straddles' the neck. I'm going to try to keep an eye on that. Gun papa, any word from Kahr on your's?

[gun papa]

I am calling to send mine back to Kahr. After repair, nothing but light strikes. I am done trying to figure it out. Let Kahr fix it.

[BEARDOG]

I recently added a p380 to my collection. It is a good intermediate step between my .32 Seecamp and My Kahr PM9. The striker issue on the 380 causes some concern.

My p380 was so 'tight' when I got it out of the box that I could only get the slide off the frame with great difficulty. Shooting 300 rounds has loosened things up a bit. But, it is still 'tight'. One thing I notice is that on range session of 100 rounds of Winchester White Box or (gasp!) Tula steel case ammo, I get an occasional FTFire. The primers are dented, but don't quite go off. This has NEVER happened with the carry ammo (Hornady Critical Defense FXT).

Last trip to the range I had two rounds that did not fire the first strike towards the end of the 100 rounds of the Tula steel case el-cheapo ammo. After reading here about broken strikers I decided to detail strip the slide just to inspect. I had done this once before just to make sure everything was clean. When I had everything apart I found two small brass chips on the white cloth under the work area. The point is I had very thoroughly cleaned the slide (without disassembly) twice since I used brass cased ammo. Also, the chips looked curved. They were to small and too thin for me to determine if curve was about the same as the main body of the striker.

A close examination of the striker showed some burnishing or polishing on the forward bottom of the main body. I don't recall that from the last disassembly, but I wasn't looking for it.

Hypothesis: perhaps brass shavings are finding their way into the striker channel (perhaps around the extractor?) and this is having two effects:
1. causing an occasional light strike, causing FTFire.
2. this debris in the striker channel my be inducing dynamic stress on the striker, eventually causing the part to fail in some circumstances.

There may be nothing 'wrong' with the part, or the design, other than everything is to really tight tolerances.

I cleaned everything out really well. I used a Q-Tip chucked in a drill with some Mother's Mag Wheel polish to get the striker channel really clean. There may have been a few more flecks of things in the cotton when I pulled it out.

I'll put another 100 rounds down range when I get the chance, and see if I have any more light strikes, and then detail strip again and see if there is any debris accumulation in the striker channel.

It seems to me that some reports of multiple striker breaks in the same gun indicates that the broken striker is a symptom of some other problem. Either something else is out of spec.; or, something else is causing stress on the part.

Great first post Chaplain.

I bolded what you wrote about the burnishing on the bottom of the striker because that would be an indication of what I have been thinking maybe happening with some of these Kahr .380's.

I have been thinking about what another member pointed out sometime ago. When he posted about his Kahr .380. He noticed when he dry fired his. (empty chamber, but with a loaded mag) The striker hits the top round with enough force to slide the cartridge forward almost half way out of the mag.

I would hypothesis;
That the way the striker cocking "lobe or foot" is hitting the cartridge rim it would act to, and could cause issues just as you and others have posted.
1. Slowing down the forward travel (light primer strikes)
2. It seems to me it could also impart an uneven or tilted pressure to the front, bottom area of the striker pushing down inside the channel.(Burnishing marks) This cockeyed motion over time could cause stress and misalignment with the firing pin and hole. (broken strikers)

I have 4 Kahrs. 2-9mms, a 45 and a .380. The .380 is the only one that does this hitting of the top round in the mag, and that just doesn't seem like a good design to me. My CW380 runs 100%, but I only have maybe 300 rds through it so far. I have to admit I am a getting a little worried about the continued reliability of it after reading so many reports of broken strikers. I have not had mine apart yet to clean the channel but when the weather breaks and I get a few hundred rds more through it I will take it apart to see what can be seen, if anything is happening on mine.
I hope I am wrong and the strikers on the vast majority are never an issue. As it is a great shooting little gun and I really like it a lot.

[Chaplain]

Great first post Chaplain.

I bolded what you wrote about the burnishing on the bottom of the striker because that would be an indication of what I have been thinking maybe happening with some of these Kahr .380's.

I have been thinking about what another member pointed out sometime ago. When he posted about his Kahr .380. He noticed when he dry fired his. (empty chamber, but with a loaded mag) The striker hits the top round with enough force to slide the cartridge forward almost half way out of the mag.

I would hypothesis;
That the way the striker cocking "lobe or foot" is hitting the cartridge rim it would act to, and could cause issues just as you and others have posted.
1. Slowing down the forward travel (light primer strikes)
2. It seems to me it could also impart an uneven or tilted pressure to the front, bottom area of the striker pushing down inside the channel.(Burnishing marks) This cockeyed motion over time could cause stress and misalignment with the firing pin and hole. (broken strikers)

I have 4 Kahrs. 2-9mms, a 45 and a .380. The .380 is the only one that does this hitting of the top round in the mag, and that just doesn't seem like a good design to me. My CW380 runs 100%, but I only have maybe 300 rds through it so far. I have to admit I am a getting a little worried about the continued reliability of it after reading so many reports of broken strikers. I have not had mine apart yet to clean the channel but when the weather breaks and I get a few hundred rds more through it I will take it apart to see what can be seen, if anything is happening on mine.
I hope I am wrong and the strikers on the vast majority are never an issue. As it is a great shooting little gun and I really like it a lot.

What! I can't believe that! - but then I checked. BE VERY VERY CAREFUL IF YOU TRY THIS AT HOME.

I too 'dry fired' my P380 with EMPTY CHAMBER and a full magazine. Sure enough, the striker cocking "lobe or foot" is hitting the cartridge rim. I could not see marks on the nickeled case of the Hornady Critical Defense round in the mag. But, It moved every time, and quite a bit too!

So, step two: I put a once fired brass case in the next position in the mag. Behold! marks appeared! and in was more than just a few thousandths that I envisioned. The striker 'foot' is catching the brass almost down to the primer!! WOW! I'm amazed the thing fires at all.

More experimentation:

I load my carry ammo by:
1. Lock the slide back.
2. Insert full mag.
3. Depress Slide Release so the slide slams home chambering a round.
4. Remove Mag and top off
5. Reinsert Mag.

When I remove the mag to top it off I find that the next round is consistently pretty far forward, but still retained by the magazine lips. Note that at this point the striker is still in the 'pre cocked' position (i.e. the gun has not be fired). By experimentation it seems that just removing a round from the mag (no matter how slowly you do it causes the next round to snap into place a little forward of being all the way back (fully engaged in the mag lips).

Is it possible that the movement forward of the next round in the magazine is consistent in normal firing operation?

I will remove and examine a magazine after every fired round to observe next time I am at the range. Also, I will immediately collect once fired brass and examine it for marks! Nickeled brass (being harder) does not seem to take a mark. Plain brass seems that it does.

It seems that the Kahr recommended procedure for loading (Lock slide back, insert mag, press slide release) may be very very important.

Also, If I am loading like I have been (tucking an extra round in to top off the mag, and even tapping the mag to seat the rounds all the way back in the mag) it seem I am defeating a normal cycle of operation.

Also, with an empty gun, I used a pen lite to look at the striker cocking "lobe or foot" before (can't see it up the mag well) and after pulling the trigger (can just barely see it).

I can't figure out how to measure just yet, But it seems like the striker cocking "lobe or foot" does not impinge much into the area of the mag well. It will only hit a cartridge that is all the way back against the back of the mag. It appears to me that in 'normal' operation, using the Kahr loading procedure, (or normal fireing) that the next round in the mag is normally positioned far enough forward by the previous round being stripped out by the forward motion of the slide that the striker cocking "lobe or foot" does not hit the next round unless:
1. Some body like me manually seats the round all the way back in the mag; or,
2. Some other action (unusual) prevents the follow on round from moving forward from the all the way back position.

I verified this with the following procedure.
1. Chambered a round using the Kahr procedure (lock slide back, insert mag, depress slide release.
2. Remove mag and inspect position of the next round. (if yours is like mine the nose of the next round will be lined up with the front of the mag.
WITH THE MAG OUT OF THE GUN EJECT THE CHAMBERED ROUND, verify no round in chamber twice more, and ease the slide forward
3. without repositioning the next round in the mag, insert the mag and DRY FIRE.
4. remove the mag and the next round has not moved.

It may be that I induced the occasional light strike by habitually reseating the next round in the mag all the way back when I pulled the mag to inspect. Now that I know what to look for, I will at least know what I am looking at.

This may or may not explain broken strikers and light strikes. It may or may not be a partial explanation for some of them. It may well explain the burnishing I observed on my striker. It is going to change how I top off a mag and slide it into a p380 with a round chambered.

[Pteridine]

In looking at the damaged part and considering that Kahr claims dry firing is acceptable, I am trying to find an explanation for broken strikers. I have yet to take the CW380 apart but it appears that the striker should be in a channel of some sort. When discharged, the shoulder of the striker should take the shock and the delicate [and poorly designed; Kahr take note] firing pin should only be stressed by striking a primer. If the radius on the firing pin at the failure point was such that it was not clearing the relief counterbore but was striking it with the radius at its base, then undue stress would be put on the striker at the base of the firing pin and it would eventually fail. I think Kahr has figured this out which is why some claim to be getting new slides, likely with larger relief counterbores that account for the radius at the firing pin base. Another possibility is that grit, grime, and machining debris are the culprits which prevent the shoulders from hitting first and stress the firing pin. Was there a batch of slightly out-of-spec strikers? Was the radius at the base of the pin even considered in a go-no go gauge?
The CW380 is a new piece for me as I upgraded from a Kel-Tec P3AT. The Kel-Tec seemed almost disposable compared to the Kahr but it did not require a 200 round break-in and was completely reliable while I owned it. The thing I find disturbing is that the Kahrs seem to need to be cleaned and lubed, immediately on receipt. This is completely unacceptable from a manufacturer of high quality pistols. They make a point of showing how they start with a billet and mill most of it away. To do that much work and then leave shavings and grit in the finished product is a false economy and poor QC. For what Kahr charges, they should easily be able to completely clean and lightly lube every pistol before it leaves the factory.
As has been said before, we likely won't get a confession from Kahr. Many will not ever fire 500 rounds of .380 through them and the statistics will prove Kahr correct; few failures. I plan to strip and clean the pistol and if I can find my bottle of Prussian blue, paint the end of the striker, reassemble, dry fire for a while, strip it and look for wear marks.

[topgun1953]

Good thoughtful analysis. Keep us posted, please. I think I am the only one that got a new slide and then it still broke. :(

[pcv57]

These are great analyses but why are we, as the consumer, having to do this? I would imagine that the manufacturing process and material is the same so why are some guns plagued by continual problems? Again, it seems if you got a good one, you're ok but if you don't the problems continue. Unfortunately, there isn't another .380 on the market that I want to own. Still waiting for mine to come back from Kahr. They have had it for over two weeks and it still hasn't been looked at. I guess their repair department is really busy :(

[topgun1953]

These are great analyses but why are we, as the consumer, having to do this? I would imagine that the manufacturing process and material is the same so why are some guns plagued by continual problems? Again, it seems if you got a good one, you're ok but if you don't the problems continue. Unfortunately, there isn't another .380 on the market that I want to own. Still waiting for mine to come back from Kahr. They have had it for over two weeks and it still hasn't been looked at. I guess their repair department is really busy :(

Having spent many years in the Worcester area, I'm guessing the weather might have affected them a little. They're up a relatively long hill and not knowing their policies, it's possible they might have been closed some days. They got mine on a Friday and called me that Tuesday.... Hopefully you get yours next week. I have around 300 through mine since the latest new striker and will go to the range again today for more fun!

[Armybrat]

Having spent many years in the Worcester area, I'm guessing the weather might have affected them a little. They're up a relatively long hill and not knowing their policies, it's possible they might have been closed some days. They got mine on a Friday and called me that Tuesday.... Hopefully you get yours next week. I have around 300 through mine since the latest new striker and will go to the range again today for more fun!

Yep, that weather must be affecting a lot of business in that part of the country. Bud's Guns (in Ohio) closed some of their services the past few days because of the bad weather. I imagine the Great Lakes shipping is a mite inconvenienced too.

But it seems that Justin Moon might want to take another look at the .380 striker pin design, what with the breakages being reported here.

Keeping my fingers crossed for my CT380. Sure would hate to have it fail at the wrong moment.

[Chaplain]

Hypothesis and Speculation: Why do some have problems, and some not?

We tend to forget what a difficult engineering problem firearms are. For years I carried a LWSeecamp in .32 acp. Even before I purchased that pistol (in days of yore before the interwebs) I knew it was 'difficult' design. The Seecamp was specifically designed for one particular load. At the time only Winchester Silvertips were recommended. I never even tried anything else. This limitation was acceptable to me (and most Seecamp owners) to obtain the smallest possible form factor.

Kahr Arms p380 is an elegant design. But, we expect it to digest all manner of .380 ammo - various bullet shapes and weights. Kahr even goes so far as to 'approve' +P loadings of .380 acp which are not industry standard. In addition to this variability in ammo, Kahr seems to have an engineered goal of exceptional accuracy with the attendant tight manufacturing tolerances - and needs to keep the product affordable. The tightness of the manufacturing means that some units will work great out of the box, and some will need considerable 'breaking in' which is essentially 'work fitting' of the parts in contact with each other.

What we may be seeing is the attempt to combine 'target' grade precision with 'combat' grade reliability in a very small package. It is really hard to predict how parts are going to function over time when combined in the large number of possible manufacturing and wear tolerances when under the dynamic stress inherent in all the actions, moments, and stresses that happen when a gun fires.

My p380 presently has a flawless record with my selected carry ammo on the range. I would like it to function flawlessly and reliably with cheaper practice ammo. If I have a striker failure after hundreds of rounds, I'll fix it. I'll want to know why, and have the problem corrected. I would be nice to be able to identify the problem that others are reporting here on the web. In an earlier era we would likely not even know of these few problematic units. Those who own problematic units are going to help us all out when the cause is finally identified.

[RRP]

I enjoy reading your posts, Chaplain. Very well written.

[gun papa]

I agree with Chaplain. I love the direction that Kahr took with thisbpistol, even having stated my understanding of finicky digestion with all ammo.
My hopes are that they get issues squared away. It is the exact gun I have been looking for. My gun is a Kahr now. Hopefully it gets returned working Effectively.

[Armybrat]

Yes, well said.

One thing I like about the Kahr designs are the simple & clean lines that flow in my hand. And are very nicely proportioned.

[joat]

First post on this forum, have read and enjoyed many other posts. This striker problem has always been interesting to me because I have a CW380 with serial number RH. It has over 1600 rounds through it (reloads) so thought maybe a close look might reveal a problem. The CW needed cleaned so this was a good time to see any wear problems as the smoke print reveals wear areas better than any Prussian Blue or Dykem. What I found was to me revealing and my opinion only.
1. The striker is of a very unique design and attributes to why we like the gun so well. One of it's features is the striker spacer. This creates a way for the striker to work in a conventional way except for the last .060" of travel. The striker spacer contacts the rear of the breech at 3 and 9 o'clock while allowing the striker to travel forward as an inertia firing pin, hitting the primer. The primer absorbs the energy of the striker and looking at tracks in the striker bore the firing pin does not contact the breech except at the very end of the firing pin where it goes through the breech wall and well before the taper begins to open aft.
2. I do not dry fire this pistol. I know they say you can. You can dry fire any firearm probably. But should you? With this design I would say no. The reason is because as stated in previous statement, if the primer did not absorb the energy of the striker, that last .060 of travel will allow the striker to continue forward and hit the rear wall of the breech at 12 and 6 o'clock. As you all realize the front of the striker has been machined to very thin allowances and will not take the continued hammering. As designed, it appears to me to be as good or better than most. It is the dry firing that makes the firing pin break. I know there will be folks who have firing pins break without dry firing, I don't know why. If you dry fire the CW though, the firing pin will break at some point.
3. I used a borescope to look at this and use one a lot. The tracks left in the smoke were easy to follow and it was very apparent to me what was going on here. Of course this is just my opinion but I hope it will help someone out as this forum has helped me many times.

[RRP]

Good first post, joat. Thanks for the information.

Welcome aboard.

[Pteridine]

It appears as though the striker shoulders should impact the rear of the slide. The delicate firing pin should not hit anything but a primer or air unless the firing pin channel is somehow obstructed. Any obstruction would then tend to stress the base of the firing pin and lead to failure.

[tigman250]

Anyone ever notice the "smear" or elongation of the dimple that is left behind from the primer strike? The barrel is unlocking before the striker is retracted, this lateral pressure could be contributing to striker breakage, I always wondered why Glock had such a goofy looking striker, now I think I know why.....