K9 slide hanging up before cycling

[Manzanita]

I picked up a used K9 the other day to keep my CW9 company. It's a K9091 model (nickel on carbon steel), ser #AG-10xx. I don't know if it's an NYPD model or not.

Took it apart and gave it a good cleaning. It looked like it had never seen a drop of oil, nor does it appear to have even been fired that much. I found a chip on the flange on the guide rod. I have a new one coming plus a new recoil spring. Gave it the Kahrtalk lube/prep and ran just a few magazines through it with one FTE. These were reloads and I usually charge slightly on the light side just for practicing. That, with what feels like a stiffer recoil spring than the one on my CW9, made me think it was probably my lighter loads and this wouldn't happen with factory loads. I did some reading, though, and it looks like at least one more person has had the problem I'll describe below.

Now, here's what's happening. During dry-firing, when the trigger is pulled all the way, keeping the trigger back, and trying to rack the slide (simulating an actual firing), it hangs unless I slightly release the trigger. Not a hard lock (it will move with some force) and once the slide overcomes that initial hangup, the rest of the cycle seems normal. The cam that presses up the striker safety looks like it's protruding too high with the trigger pulled all the way and getting caught on the slide, keeping it from freely starting it's cycle. Once it gets going and clears the safety and the trigger bar release engages, everything is smooth.

In another thread, it was suggested this may indicate that the gun hasn't been fired all that much and the problem will resolve itself after a good break-in. I'm hoping that's the case.

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has experienced anything similar.

[ripley16]

If the pistol functions properly while shooting, then this is, IMHO, a non-problem. What happens while hand cycling isn't important.

The early Kahrs did have heavy springs, heavier than todays standard. Your FTE may well be due to a light load. Let us know how it goes with some factory ammo. Those nickel finished Kahrs are somewhat rare.

[Alfonse]

I noticed that on my MK9 when cleaning it after last weekend. It works fine, so I really don't care much. I don't know if my K9 does it or not.

[Manzanita]

I noticed that on my MK9...

Is your MK9 well broken in or fairly new?

Yesterday afternoon I put a hundred rounds through the K. Fifty were reloads, fifty factory. I had one FTE with a reload. Otherwise, no problems. One difference between this gun and my CW. The CW tends to consistently deposit the brass in the same area. The K9 throws it all over the place. Sometimes it lands in front of me, sometimes to the side, and one casing flew back and hit me in the forehead. Odd.

[Alfonse]

I bought it used. It is from about 2010. It doesn't look like it has many rounds through it, but I don't know. The barrel was hardly scuffed before I shot it this weekend.

It doesn't have a hitch, the slide has to be very forcefully moved past where it catches, or the trigger eased. I doubt it would change with more rounds. It was just kind of a "huh" for me, since the pistol works flawlessly. The trigger is wonderful. The only reason I would manipulate the pistol that way is to see where the reset is.

My K9 is brand new other than 100 or so rounds shot last weekend. I did not try it when I cleaned it. The trigger on it seems to me just like the MK9 and my PM9, or pretty much smooth just as it should be. I also don't see this as a problem.

[Alfonse]

Checked the K9 for you. It did not do it. I did not have a magazine in it. The slide did catch from being pulled back, the very first bit of the movement back. There is a bit of wear on the upper front lip of the barrel. I expect that will improve with more use.

I don't remember if I had a magazine in the MK or not.

That may not make you feel better, but that is how it worked. I'll sleep fine with the way they work.

[gb6491]

....
Now, here's what's happening. During dry-firing, when the trigger is pulled all the way, keeping the trigger back, and trying to rack the slide (simulating an actual firing), it hangs unless I slightly release the trigger. Not a hard lock (it will move with some force) and once the slide overcomes that initial hangup, the rest of the cycle seems normal. The cam that presses up the striker safety looks like it's protruding too high with the trigger pulled all the way and getting caught on the slide, keeping it from freely starting it's cycle. Once it gets going and clears the safety and the trigger bar release engages, everything is smooth.....
While it's not K9 specific, here's a thread that might be of interest: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?21931-CW45-questions
I should point out that while the OP of that thread had reliability problems, my pistol, which exhibited (to some degree) the same issue, never had any reliability problems (still, I'm glad I resolved the issue on my pistol).
Regards,
Greg

[Manzanita]

While it's not K9 specific, here's a thread that might be of interest: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?21931-CW45-questions
I should point out that while the OP of that thread had reliability problems, my pistol, which exhibited (to some degree) the same issue, never had any reliability problems (still, I'm glad I resolved the issue on my pistol).
Regards,
Greg

Thank you! That is exactly what's going on with my K9. The pictures in this post (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?21931-CW45-questions&p=279674#post279674) illustrating the height of the cam in relation to the top of the frame is exactly how my K9 looks compared to my CW9 (where the cam never protrudes past the frame. I do believe this is pushing the striker block past the point where it is flush with the slide and causing the cam to catch on the slide when it tries to go back.

Rather than a costly trip to the mothership, though, I may check with some local smiths and see what they think they can do.

[kerby9mm]

A little over 3 years ago I noticed that my mk9 stuck with the trigger pulled back but my mk40 with the trigger pulled back the slide moved freely. I compared the 2 & noticed the mk9 cam was above the frame rail & the mk40 was not. Kahr ground the striker block cam & it works like the mk40 now. I paid nothing but that was 2011.

[Manzanita]

I think I was wrong about the cam catching on the slide. It seems like, with the trigger pulled, the cam is pressing on the striker block safety causing the trigger bar to be under some tension, making it difficult to move. Shoot, I'm just guessing at this point.

Anyway, I took a file...

(Disclaimer: My middle name isn't Bubba. And it was a little-bitty fine file... ;) )

...and, taking my time, took some material off the cam, maintaining the rounded profile. After that, I took some wet/dry paper and polished it smooth. Appears to sit a little lower now. I'll update when I get a chance to try it out, probably after work today. I figured it's way out of warranty and if I booger it up, a new cam (http://www.kahr.com/Pistol-Parts/Kahr-015K9S-Cocking-Cam.asp) is only $16.50.

Later: That did it! Smooth as silk. Doesn't catch at all.

[muggsy]

It isn't advisable for a novice to tinker with the trigger mechanism of any firearm. The gun should go back to Kahr or to a certified gunsmith. If your gun fires when you don't intend it to you could be looking at a very large lawsuit.

[kerby9mm]

The cam that was filed & rounded pushes up the striker block to allow the striker to hit the primer to ignite the round. At worst if too much is taken off the cam it won't depress the striker block enough to allow the gun to fire thus failure to fire.

[Manzanita]

I appreciate your concern but I'm hardly a novice. I'm no gunsmith by any means but I don't think what I was doing required any specialized skill other than some ability to work with tools. I wasn't very specific on that last post but I was doing no work on the part of the cam that pulls back the striker nor was I doing any "trigger" work. The part of the cam that I modified still sticks up plenty high when the trigger is pulled and thoroughly engages the striker block. If there was any risk at all, it wasn't in having a gun fire when I didn't want to, but the opposite. And, like I mentioned before, if the worst happened, a new cam is a couple of mouse clicks away.

As it turned out, everything worked. The gun cycles much better and I've had no failures firing the lighter reloads that I prefer to use for practice. The ejected brass also seems to go in a more uniform direction rather than all over the place now. I'd say wins all around.

[gb6491]

Well done!:)

[kerby9mm]

Actually I was trying to say that the gun would not fire accidentally by filing the striker block cam. I should have stated that you were doing what Kahr did to mine that fixed it for me. Sorry about that.

[Manzanita]

Actually I was trying to say that the gun would not fire accidentally by filing the striker block cam. I should have stated that you were doing what Kahr did to mine that fixed it for me. Sorry about that.

Oh, I know. I think because I wasn't very specific on exactly what I was filing, someone else thought I was performing some DIY trigger work.

A confession: Ran some more rounds through the K9 last night. I had one reload hang up on me during ejection. Heh. Been loading 115gr FMJs (either Remington, HSM, or bulk bullets from RMR (http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/9mm-355_c12.htm;jsessionid=C6F138CB42528880B680E4DEC92 F2771.m1plqscsfapp03)) with 4.4gr of Win 231 at an OAL of about 1.130" (just a hair past 1-1/8 on my repurposed calipers). I guess I'm gonna need to up my powder 1/10th of a grain and see what happens.

[Manzanita]

Just wanted to post an update. I've shot the hell out of my new steel gong targets with the K9, so much that I've lost count of the rounds, and, besides my aforementioned light handloads, haven't had a single hiccup.

For the record, I loaded the rest of my Win 231 powder at 4.5gr, 115gr FMJs @ 1.125 OAL. After that, I ended up buying a couple of pounds of Hodgdon Titegroup mainly because the 231 is so danged hard to find. Worked up a 4.5gr load, same bullet and OAL as before. After about 50 rounds I reduced the charge to 4.4gr (which is, incidentally, below the Hodgdon listed starting load of 4.5gr w/this weight bullet), shot a few test mags, and loaded several hundred of these. I think that's a keeper with this combination.

I don't have a chrono. My testing is strictly unscientific; I carefully compare the felt recoil to similar factory ammo and check casings and primers for signs of overpressure. They feel good and the spent casings and primers look good so I'm happy. All the 9mm's are happy with this load, too, so that's my new standard reloading recipe.

[muggsy]

There are two old sayings that I think apply in this case. If you look for trouble you are sure to find it. You don't know what you don't know. I'll leave it go at that.

[Manzanita]

There are two old sayings that I think apply in this case. If you look for trouble you are sure to find it. You don't know what you don't know. I'll leave it go at that.

Just noticed this reply. Please, elaborate. Don't just "leave it go at that". Say what you mean and don't be coy.

[muggsy]

In most cases if you don't know exactly what you are doing and why, it's better to take your gun to an expert. Particularly if you're dealing with the firing mechanism of a firearm. Any unauthorized tinkering will void your warranty and you could be looking at a lawsuit from an accidental discharge. You did well this time. Maybe next time, not so well. A lot of gun parts interact with others and you may not be able to visualize how a change in one area may affect another. Something as minor as changing the sear angle by just few degrees can cost someone their life. Just sayin.