OC Carry is DEAD in TX this Legislative Session

[Longitude Zero]

Another in a growling list of stories that show definitively that the OC dunces are causing more difficulties than they are helping. I wonder if they are being paid as "False Front", Red Flag", "Agent Provocatuers" to derail CCW and OC???

http://bearingarms.com/sunk-constitutional-carry-bill-will-heard-texas-senate-thanks-oc-extremists/?utm_source=bafbp&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=baupdate

[SlowBurn]

Another in a growling list of stories that show definitively that the OC dunces are causing more difficulties than they are helping. I wonder if they are being paid as "False Front", Red Flag", "Agent Provocatuers" to derail CCW and OC???

Not sure if it was a typo, but "growling list" is a good description.

They're like they're Guy Fawkes anarchists and OWS thugs, but with ARs. Money (sometimes taxpayer money!) has been funneled to those types to pay their way to show up, protest, cause trouble, maybe instigate a riot. So its not a crazy thought that somebody is greasing this "spontaneous" movement too.

Actually I doubt anything the clowns do is intentional, but whats the difference? Gun control advocates lose political fights consistently, EXCEPT when these cop hating nut jobs act out. The effect is the same as if they were deliberately sabotaging support for self defense rights, but I think they just want to sabotage whatever they can get away with trashing.

[knkali]

I get the OC zealot's message, but not their actions.

[diablo53]

Constitutional carry bill is the one that will not be heard. Another bill proposing open carry for licensees is still alive. There's still a chance!!

[diablo53]

The Open Carry Tarrant County organization has been excommunicated by Open Carry Texas. They are a group of radical open carry supporters. They do much more to hurt their cause than help it. Texas is quite conservative, I don't see the extreme right or extreme left getting much done. (Open Carry Tarrant County and Moms Demand Action)

[laserfish]

Being a resident of Tarrant County, I wish these guys would sit down and shut up! Doing much more harm than good to all of our reputations. As a CC license holder, I have no desire to open carry, don't want to be the first target. Can't imagine carrying my rifle around either. That being said, the new Lt. Governor, Dan Patrick, better just let it come to a vote as he promised in his campaign or he will be hearing from all of us who value the 2nd.

[muggsy]

After you lose your right to carry openly, how long do you think it will be before you lose the right to carry concealed? Bearing arms is a God given constitutionally guaranteed right. The State has no right to limit it. You'll only lose the right if if the left divides and conquers. No one is forcing you to exercise that right.

[knkali]

After you lose your right to carry openly, how long do you think it will be before you lose the right to carry concealed? Bearing arms is a God given constitutionally guaranteed right. The State has no right to limit it. You'll only lose the right if if the left divides and conquers. No one is forcing you to exercise that right.

I understand the slippery slope position and I agree; however the argument can be made that the constitution does not say anything about concealment or lack of--CCW is still (no less)bearing arms

[Longitude Zero]

Not sure if it was a typo, but "growling list" is a good description.

It was and I get your thought.

[Longitude Zero]

Bearing arms is a God given constitutionally guaranteed right. The State has no right to limit it.

Agreed but the absolutism with no compromise is an almost guarantee to see what we do not want done to get done. The reality it comes down to it is, better to have part of a loaf than no loaf at all.

[Bawanna]

"Bearing arms is a God given constitutionally guaranteed right. "

Is this still viable now that we have the Messiah Ovomit? Just asking.

[deadeye]

I would never want to open carry, but that is a personal decision for each of us to make. As far as these clown show freaks who do it just to be noticed, I've always heard if you stick your bare a$$ out it public, expect to get it kicked.

[Bawanna]

The only reason I endorse open carry other than it's just common sense it should be legal is if I have a wardrobe malfunction and some communist tree hugger happens to notice and freaks?

It's a non issue since I have a permit and it rarely or never happens but open carry just double varifies that it's ok.

[ltxi]

Agreed but the absolutism with no compromise is an almost guarantee to see what we do not want done to get done. The reality it comes down to it is, better to have part of a loaf than no loaf at all.

Wrong/bad word to be usin' with muggsy....on 2A stuff, anyway.

My view is not running around scaring the hell out of folk simply to feed one's idealistic ego is simply common courtesy discrete.

[Armybrat]

http://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10949699_1523167207952381_6990710316478456705_n.pn g?oh=45aba05716e994bceec9e032dfab8e75&oe=559134C7

[muggsy]

I understand the slippery slope position and I agree; however the argument can be made that the constitution does not say anything about concealment or lack of--CCW is still (no less)bearing arms

Please explain how anyone benefits from ranting against someone exercising a constitutional right, particularly the right to keep and bear arms? I don't agree with what these people are doing, but I will defend their right to do it. America is still a free country.

[muggsy]

"Bearing arms is a God given constitutionally guaranteed right. "

Is this still viable now that we have the Messiah Ovomit? Just asking.

Absolutely, the second amendment was put in place to guarantee that politicians like Obama cannot take our rights away. No politician is bullet proof.

[Longitude Zero]

I don't agree with what these people are doing, but I will defend their right to do it. America is still a free country.

Me too. HOWEVER I have the right in a Superior Amendment the First, to rail and slam them in any venue possible. IMHO The amendments were written in a SPECIFIC order for SPECIFIC purposes. If the First Amendment does not exist there is no reason for any of the rest and they become a waste of space.

[knkali]

Please explain how anyone benefits from ranting against someone exercising a constitutional right, particularly the right to keep and bear arms? I don't agree with what these people are doing, but I will defend their right to do it. America is still a free country.

you are paraphrasing Voltaire and seems we agree with one another on that sentiment. However, we need to choose our battles carefully and decide what we want to really fight for. The consequences of these OC zealots could compromise our 2A entirely. We must remember that we are talking about AMEDMENTS which, by definition, can be changed and have been changed in the past. It is a tough call for all of us who carry if we want to rally behind these OC fanatics IMHO. We could all end up looking bad and the consequences of such be much more than bargained for. When a generally conservative 2A loving State says 'enough' to a particular 2A issue, we must pause and reflect what is going on here. Someone recently said on another thread "discretion is the better part of valor". Perhaps this axiom applies here? My comments are merely the "pause" that I mentioned. In my heart, we should not have any laws restricting gun sales and carry habits. In short the G should have nothing to do with out gun matters. Unfortunately, my beliefs are not congruent with the system that we have. That is our reality like it or not.

[knkali]

Me too. HOWEVER I have the right in a Superior Amendment the First, to rail and slam them in any venue possible. IMHO The amendments were written in a SPECIFIC order for SPECIFIC purposes. If the First Amendment does not exist there is no reason for any of the rest and they become a waste of space.

I think you are referring to the order of the first 10 amendments only--right?

[ScottM]

I'm siding with knkali here.

[Longitude Zero]

I think you are referring to the order of the first 10 amendments only--right?

Yes. My point is they were put in the order they were for a reason. The First Amendment is THE MOST IMPORTANT and was placed first for that reason. Obviously the 8th, 9th, and 10 are NOT as important as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, the Founding Fathers made choices that like it or not we must accept and respect. I also agree with your misquoting Voltaire comment above.

[SlowBurn]

Please explain how anyone benefits from ranting against someone exercising a constitutional right, particularly the right to keep and bear arms? I don't agree with what these people are doing, but I will defend their right to do it. America is still a free country.

Legally they have the right to do it, and to speak loudly and obnoxiously about it too. But not everything that's legal is moral or right. Nazis have the right to march through Jewish communities in Skokie. Commies and Muslims have the right to burn the American flag. And I have my right to call them out for what they are (and to snatch the flag away like Rick Monday.)

I'm old enough to recall the "Filthy Speech" movement which was a deliberate effort by the left to be so profane and obnoxious that they could provoke a reaction suppressing the right to free speech. Open Carry Tarrant County, and similar groups "smell" to me a lot like the Filthy Speech movement. Some very cynical provocateurs and a lot of simple dupes following their lead. The right to bear arms (really its an extension of the fundamental natural right of self defense) has recently been gaining wider acceptance again, but is not nearly so universally understood as the right of free speech. We're at a turning point, and the tactic has some chance of succeeding in killing the broad recognition and protection of the right. I don't want to see something good killed in the cradle by these cretins.

[muggsy]

Wrong/bad word to be usin' with muggsy....on 2A stuff, anyway.

My view is not running around scaring the hell out of folk simply to feed one's idealistic ego is simply common courtesy discrete.

You've got that straight, Itxi. A man should never compromise on his principles.

[muggsy]

Yes. My point is they were put in the order they were for a reason. The First Amendment is THE MOST IMPORTANT and was placed first for that reason. Obviously the 8th, 9th, and 10 are NOT as important as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, the Founding Fathers made choices that like it or not we must accept and respect. I also agree with your misquoting Voltaire comment above.

All of our constitutional rights are of equal importance. Which one of your constitutional rights would you be willing to give up? I've never seen such a bunch of weak sisters in my life. When I entered the military I swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution in it's entirety, not just parts of it. Some of you need to grow a pair.

[muggsy]

Yes. My point is they were put in the order they were for a reason. The First Amendment is THE MOST IMPORTANT and was placed first for that reason. Obviously the 8th, 9th, and 10 are NOT as important as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, the Founding Fathers made choices that like it or not we must accept and respect. I also agree with your misquoting Voltaire comment above.

Bullpucky.

[ScottM]

You've got that straight, Itxi. A man should never compromise on his principles.

Principle, yes. And be flexible with tactics...

Mutual respect for differences in opinion is one of the principles that a man shouldn't compromise on. Or do you require others to hold the same opinion to receive respect and courtesy?

What so many of us "sisters" (thanks for the misogyny by the way) see missing from the most provocative of open carry demonstrations is a lack of respect and courtesy for who aren't comfortable with military style rifles in genteel settings. It's childish really. "Look at me! Look at me! Respect me and my rights! And F$&@ you if you're creeped out becuz ur a liberal *****!"

Sorry if you can't see the hypocrisy in that.

[Longitude Zero]

Muggy I suggest you fill in a deficient failure in your education. Read the Federalist Papers. You might have your eyes opened if you are amenable to learning something new. The Founding Fathers were smarter than all of combined. ScottM you and I are probably wasting our time. Some lack the ability to admit error of thought let alone correct it.

[Longitude Zero]

Bullpucky.

Your non reply is laughable and typical.

[muggsy]

I'm very well acquainted with the federalist papers and our constitution. Each of the amendments are equal in importance, because one cannot stand without the others. They were put in place to insure our freedom just as the checks and balances were put into place to prevent one branch of government over powering the other. In the days of the colonists it was not uncommon to see civilians with long arms walking the street. Why should it be any different today? I apologize if it offends your sensibilities, but you don't have a constitutional right to not be offended. Open carry proponents do have a constitutional right to carry openly. Would you deny them their constitutional right?

[knkali]

Open carry proponents do have a constitutional right to carry openly. Would you deny them their constitutional right?

Please show me where that is written, mentioned, or implied in the constitution. The antigunner argument to your statement would be: "I do not see anywhere in the 2A as to the method of carry in order to exercise your right to bear arms".

[SlowBurn]

I apologize if it offends your sensibilities, but you don't have a constitutional right to not be offended. Open carry proponents do have a constitutional right to carry openly. Would you deny them their constitutional right?

As a first amendment absolutist, I have to admit that men have the constitutional right to walk around in public with their little pee-pees hanging out too, no matter who is offended. That doesn't mean they should do it. And it doesn't mean we can't call them perverted sickos if they do.

[diablo53]

...In the days of the colonists it was not uncommon to see civilians with long arms walking the street. Why should it be any different today? I apologize if it offends your sensibilities, but you don't have a constitutional right to not be offended. Open carry proponents do have a constitutional right to carry openly. Would you deny them their constitutional right?

It should be different today because by and large there is no NEED to walk the streets with long guns. If there was, then by all means protect yourself. Folks are wigged out by it because that kind of activity hasn't been seen on a regular basis for generations.
While there is no constitutional right to be offended, there is a constitutional right to express it!
I don't believe anyone on this board are trying to deny anyone their right to carry openly. I think we are logic minded and are choosing to pick our battles. We are in support of the 2nd amendment and all that comes with it, but it is under attack. I don't want some idiot screwing up the good thing we got going by making an ass of himself just because he's allowed to do so. There are attempts underway to restrict the 2nd amendment, and pissing off the neutrals and sending them to the other side is not a sound battle plan.

[diablo53]

Please show me where that is written, mentioned, or implied in the constitution. The antigunner argument to your statement would be: "I do not see anywhere in the 2A as to the method of carry in order to exercise your right to bear arms".

As an "antigunner" argument, this point is moot. As the method of carry is not specified or implied. The antigunner would pick apart the actual intent of the 2nd amendment as a whole.

[diablo53]

As a first amendment absolutist, I have to admit that men have the constitutional right to walk around in public with their little pee-pees hanging out too, no matter who is offended. That doesn't mean they should do it. And it doesn't mean we can't call them perverted sickos if they do.

Can we get a like button on this board?

[ScottM]

Can we get a like button on this board?

Ditto!

[Longitude Zero]

I apologize if it offends your sensibilities, but you don't have a constitutional right to not be offended. Open carry proponents do have a constitutional right to carry openly. Would you deny them their constitutional right?
It is obvious you might be better served in the kiddie pool as your frequent temper tantrum tirades are getting tiresome. Your statement that each amendment cannot stand without the others is hogwash. How does the fact that the 18th Amendment (Prohibition) was repealed by the 21st. So by your own specious and inarticulate statement we are a lesser Republic. We are all dumber for having read the above and the total quote of which I have taken the above from.

[Longitude Zero]

Can we get a like button on this board?

Here...Here this. How about a "We are all dumber for having read this crap" button?

[Longitude Zero]

I don't believe anyone on this board are trying to deny anyone their right to carry openly. I think we are logic minded and are choosing to pick our battles. We are in support of the 2nd amendment and all that comes with it, but it is under attack. I don't want some idiot screwing up the good thing we got going by making an ass of himself just because he's allowed to do so. There are attempts underway to restrict the 2nd amendment, and pissing off the neutrals and sending them to the other side is not a sound battle plan.

Very true. However many folks are so wrapped up in there absolutism they have degenerated into idiocy and pomposity. OC of a handgun I applaud. OC of a long gun is for the anuses and rectums of this world who think they are advancing the cause but are just being anuses and rectums.

[berettabone]

I'll second that anus.............................................. .....................................:o

[knkali]

As an "antigunner" argument, this point is moot. As the method of carry is not specified or implied. The antigunner would pick apart the actual intent of the 2nd amendment as a whole.

good point amigo. TY

[muggsy]

I was talking about the first ten amendments known as the bill of rights bill as written by the founding fathers. This has nothing to do with any of the subsequent amendments to the constitution. All of the first ten amendments are individual rights. I have repeatedly said that I don't agree with what the open carry people are doing, but I would defend with my life their right to do it. That, my friend, is what you call a true patriot.

[muggsy]

I have been a life member of the NRA since 1972. That's long before a lot of you were born. The only reason that you still have the right to keep and bear arms is because of people like me. I've fought the good fight and the one thing that I learned is that you don't win the fight by giving ground. The left wants to divide and concur. Some of you on the right seem all to eager to assist them. Wake up. That's all that I have to say on this topic. I'm done here.

[knkali]

I have been a life member of the NRA since 1972. That's long before a lot of you were born. The only reason that you still have the right to keep and bear arms is because of people like me. I've fought the good fight and the one thing that I learned is that you don't win the fight by giving ground. The left wants to divide and concur. Some of you on the right seem all to eager to assist them. Wake up. That's all that I have to say on this topic. I'm done here.

That is how you render someone speechless.

[Longitude Zero]

I have been a life member of the NRA since 1972. That's long before a lot of you were born. The only reason that you still have the right to keep and bear arms is because of people like me. I've fought the good fight and the one thing that I learned is that you don't win the fight by giving ground. The left wants to divide and concur. Some of you on the right seem all to eager to assist them. Wake up. That's all that I have to say on this topic. I'm done here.

I was born long before 1972. Just joining DOES NOT MEAN anything valuable. Fought the good fight huh? How many NRA conventions have you been to? Ever been asked to sit on a local/regional/national committee? It is what you do after joining that counts. Way too many people join and have the false presumption they have done something when in reality they have done next to nothing. Like I said it is about what you do after you join that counts. Adios!

[Longitude Zero]

I was talking about the first ten amendments known as the bill of rights bill as written by the founding fathers. This has nothing to do with any of the subsequent amendments to the constitution. All of the first ten amendments are individual rights. I have repeatedly said that I don't agree with what the open carry people are doing, but I would defend with my life their right to do it. That, my friend, is what you call a true patriot.

For me it is not a situation of would as I DO defend that right and all the others EVERYDAY I go to work.

[ScottM]

This thread never needed to get personal or involve comparisons of who has done more for the NRA, or America overall. I'm certain that each of us plays the roles we can, in ways that are most meaningful and suited to our individual talents.

There are simply differences in opinion about tactics. It should be treated as no more than that. I don't think any of us in this long thread ever said OC of long guns should be outlawed - only that it can work against our interests as much or more than it works for us. That's all.

It got personal when respect dropped away. Anti-gunners didn't make that happen. That was all us, and it's a character fault we're better off accepting and working on than writing it off, because if respect can drop off in a virtual room of fellow firearm enthusiasts, you can bet it's a part of the national gun debate, and honestly it is one of the key things most successfully used against us. Anti-gunners (often accurately) characterize gun owners as frothy, intolerant, disrespectful and selfish, then they use that characterization to garner swing-voter support.

Seriously think about that, and consider the benefits of kind dialogue with people who may not agree with us... YET. As the population swell of the baby boomers come and go and more culturally diversified generations fill our ranks, do we want them feeling like we're dinosaurs of bygone age, or respectable and relevant and worth emulating?

For some, that approach is fraught with risk that by giving an inch (of social consideration), the anti-gunners will take a mile (by outlawing OC rifle carry, etc.) but for others of us, we think we can have both - the right to carry, and also the respect and decorum to respect other's freedom to experience a non-militarized America.

[knkali]

This thread never needed to get personal or involve comparisons of who has done more for the NRA, or America overall. I'm certain that each of us plays the roles we can, in ways that are most meaningful and suited to our individual talents.

There are simply differences in opinion about tactics. It should be treated as no more than that. I don't think any of us in this long thread ever said OC of long guns should be outlawed - only that it can work against our interests as much or more than it works for us. That's all.

It got personal when respect dropped away. Anti-gunners didn't make that happen. That was all us, and it's a character fault we're better off accepting and working on than writing it off, because if respect can drop off in a virtual room of fellow firearm enthusiasts, you can bet it's a part of the national gun debate, and honestly it is one of the key things most successfully used against us. Anti-gunners (often accurately) characterize gun owners as frothy, intolerant, disrespectful and selfish, then they use that characterization to garner swing-voter support.

Seriously think about that, and consider the benefits of kind dialogue with people who may not agree with us... YET. As the population swell of the baby boomers come and go and more culturally diversified generations fill our ranks, do we want them feeling like we're dinosaurs of bygone age, or respectable and relevant and worth emulating?

For some, that approach is fraught with risk that by giving an inch (of social consideration), the anti-gunners will take a mile (by outlawing OC rifle carry, etc.) but for others of us, we think we can have both - the right to carry, and also the respect and decorum to respect other's freedom to experience a non-militarized America.

Give this man a cigar. Well said.

[berettabone]

I have noticed, amongst friends and associates, that many of them over the last few years, have purchased a firearm/firearms and taken classes to become safer, more proficient shooters. These are people, that 10 years ago, wouldn't have even given it a thought. And it seems that they are doing it the right way. I was at a party a few weeks back, and had a few conversations about firearms. I was the only carrier there. There were a few people there, that told me they are starting their quest, to become a gun owner/carrier. We are progressing ever so slightly, gun sales keep on going, and Oblamea is still one of the best gun salesmen who ever lived. My father was a lifetime member of the NRA, and I am currently a member. That being said, most of the time, I don't agree with the tactics used by some of these so called " 2nd amendment supporters", carrying their rifles around, and strutting like turkeys during mating season. But I have to agree with Muggs, you can't stop them from doing it...............they draw attention, good or bad, and keep this whole thing in the forefront. It's also their right to do so. If you stop them, your going against everything that you should be trying to stop. You cannot lift your foot against the firearm haters of the world. It's no secret, that if they could get rid of every single firearm in the states they would do so tomorrow. They are relentless, because they are of the mindset, that if you get rid of all firearms, our problems are gone. This is how they think. Can't see the forest for the trees. We are not going to go through life agreeing about everything, but as a firearm owner, think of the whole picture...................it really is us against them. You can't let up for a second. I try to get everyone I meet, into a conversation about firearms, at least to educate a bit. The more people you get involved in the firearms world, the more it helps in the long run. Believe it, the anti gunners will not stop.

[b4uqzme]

I have noticed, amongst friends and associates, that many of them over the last few years, have purchased a firearm/firearms and taken classes to become safer, more proficient shooters. These are people, that 10 years ago, wouldn't have even given it a thought. And it seems that they are doing it the right way. I was at a party a few weeks back, and had a few conversations about firearms. I was the only carrier there. There were a few people there, that told me they are starting their quest, to become a gun owner/carrier. We are progressing ever so slightly, gun sales keep on going, and Oblamea is still one of the best gun salesmen who ever lived. My father was a lifetime member of the NRA, and I am currently a member. That being said, most of the time, I don't agree with the tactics used by some of these so called " 2nd amendment supporters", carrying their rifles around, and strutting like turkeys during mating season. But I have to agree with Muggs, you can't stop them from doing it...............they draw attention, good or bad, and keep this whole thing in the forefront. It's also their right to do so. If you stop them, your going against everything that you should be trying to stop. You cannot lift your foot against the firearm haters of the world. It's no secret, that if they could get rid of every single firearm in the states they would do so tomorrow. They are relentless, because they are of the mindset, that if you get rid of all firearms, our problems are gone. This is how they think. Can't see the forest for the trees. We are not going to go through life agreeing about everything, but as a firearm owner, think of the whole picture...................it really is us against them. You can't let up for a second. I try to get everyone I meet, into a conversation about firearms, at least to educate a bit. The more people you get involved in the firearms world, the more it helps in the long run. Believe it, the anti gunners will not stop.

Give THAT man a cigar!!!!!!!

[knkali]

.I have noticed, amongst friends and associates, that many of them over the last few years, have purchased a firearm/firearms and taken classes to become safer, more proficient shooters. These are people, that 10 years ago, wouldn't have even given it a thought And it seems that they are doing it the right way. I was at a party a few weeks back, and had a few conversations about firearms. I was the only carrier there. There were a few people there, that told me they are starting their quest, to become a gun owner/carrier. We are progressing ever so slightly, gun sales keep on going, and Oblamea is still one of the best gun salesmen who ever lived. My father was a lifetime member of the NRA, and I am currently a member. That being said, most of the time, I don't agree with the tactics used by some of these so called " 2nd amendment supporters", carrying their rifles around, and strutting like turkeys during mating season. But I have to agree with Muggs, you can't stop them from doing it...............they draw attention, good or bad, and keep this whole thing in the forefront. It's also their right to do so. If you stop them, your going against everything that you should be trying to stop. You cannot lift your foot against the firearm haters of the world. It's no secret, that if they could get rid of every single firearm in the states they would do so tomorrow. They are relentless, because they are of the mindset, that if you get rid of all firearms, our problems are gone. This is how they think. Can't see the forest for the trees. We are not going to go through life agreeing about everything, but as a firearm owner, think of the whole picture...................it really is us against them. You can't let up for a second. I try to get everyone I meet, into a conversation about firearms, at least to educate a bit. The more people you get involved in the firearms world, the more it helps in the long run. Believe it, the anti gunners will not stop.

Am I missing something or are you agreeing with 99.99% of the people that posted on this thread? I cannot tell for sure. With that said, I do not think or have read where anyone on this thread wants the constitutional rights of the OC zealots to be compromised by stopping them from demonstrating. Instead, the prudence of the OC rifle clad demonstrators is in question and that their actions could have had an impact(negative) which is what was highlighted by the OP. You seem to be in complete agreement with this sentiment when you wrote-----.... most of the time, I don't agree with the tactics used by some of these so called " 2nd amendment supporters". Finally, No one has said that antigunners will never stop nor disagreed to what their ultimate agenda is. In fact, you seem to acknowledge that more people are joining our ranks when you wrote: ..I have noticed, amongst friends and associates, that many of them over the last few years, have purchased a firearm/firearms and taken classes to become safer, more proficient shooters. These are people, that 10 years ago, wouldn't have even given it a thought ....

Cigars for everyone.

[berettabone]

Am I missing something or are you agreeing with 99.99% of the people that posted on this thread? I cannot tell for sure. With that said, I do not think or have read where anyone on this thread wants the constitutional rights of the OC zealots to be compromised by stopping them from demonstrating. Instead, the prudence of the OC rifle clad demonstrators is in question and that their actions could have had an impact(negative) which is what was highlighted by the OP. You seem to be in complete agreement with this sentiment when you wrote-----.... most of the time, I don't agree with the tactics used by some of these so called " 2nd amendment supporters". Finally, No one has said that antigunners will never stop nor disagreed to what their ultimate agenda is. In fact, you seem to acknowledge that more people are joining our ranks when you wrote: ..I have noticed, amongst friends and associates, that many of them over the last few years, have purchased a firearm/firearms and taken classes to become safer, more proficient shooters. These are people, that 10 years ago, wouldn't have even given it a thought ....

Cigars for everyone.
By reading the first three posts, it sure sounds like someone wants these " OC dunces" to stop, to me..............................or am I mistaken. Otherwise, why bring it up?

[Longitude Zero]

By reading the first three posts, it sure sounds like someone wants these " OC dunces" to stop, to me..............................or am I mistaken. Otherwise, why bring it up?

OC of pistols is fine and good with me. OC of rifles and shotguns is IMHO an unnecessarily provocative, in your face, demonstration that is counterproductive. Just like it is legal to drive a car with your feet but it is a very bad idea. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor or the best fight is the one you avoid.

[SlowBurn]

By reading the first three posts, it sure sounds like someone wants these " OC dunces" to stop, to me..............................or am I mistaken. Otherwise, why bring it up?

Please read the linked article from LZ's first post. Here's an excerpt:
"Proponents of constitutional carry suffered a setback last week when Kory Watkins of Open Carry Tarrant County posted a Facebook video in which he equated opposition to constitutional carry to treason, a crime that he said is punishable by death. Although Watkins later said he did not intend to threaten lawmakers, the ominous tone of his message drew sharp criticism from other open-carry advocates."

Speaking only for myself, do I want theses dunces to stop threatening lawmakers with death? Yes
Do I want them to stop provocatively bicycling around with AKs on? Yes
Do I want them to stop verbally abusing police officers who stop to ask them whats going on? Yes
Do I want them to take a bath? Yes

Wanting them to stop is not the same as using government force to make them stop. They have the right to act the fool. But they're not helping anything, and I don't believe their motivation is to help. I want them to stop, go away, get lost, and I think it's wise to shun them.

[b4uqzme]

....one of the biggest differences between left and right: The right tends to split hairs over how to advance their common cause. This thread is a perfect example. And also an example of how we are vulnerable to a divide and conquer opposition. Still, we are thinking men and I am proud that we are open to talk things through. The left OTOH tend to focus solely on the common goal and do not let little things like details get in the way. This makes them a formidable adversary.

[muggsy]

Treason is punishable by death. I don't believe that this implies that anyone who makes such a statement is threatening to kill anyone, though that may be the liberal
interpretation of what was said. I also believe that from time to time it's good to remind the politicians that they work for us and not the reverse. Too many in office think that they know better than you what's good for you. The majority of them have a D behind their names.

[knkali]

Treason is punishable by death. I don't believe that this implies that anyone who makes such a statement is threatening to kill anyone, though that may be the liberal
interpretation of what was said. I also believe that from time to time it's good to remind the politicians that they work for us and not the reverse. Too many in office think that they know better than you what's good for you. The majority of them have a D behind their names.
+11

[knkali]

....one of the biggest differences between left and right: The right tends to split hairs over how to advance their common cause. This thread is a perfect example. And also an example of how we are vulnerable to a divide and conquer opposition. Still, we are thinking men and I am proud that we are open to talk things through. The left OTOH tend to focus solely on the common goal and do not let little things like details get in the way. This makes them a formidable adversary.
yes but why is that?

[b4uqzme]

^^^leadership, demographics, experience, character, vision, perspective... take your pick. That's a bit of a chicken and egg question there knkali. I'm thinking of Sowell's discussions of elitism and intellectuals tho. But let's not take off on one of our tangents good friend. Been there done that. ;)

[knkali]

( slapping myself on the head)you answered it without the tangent. TY

[Armybrat]

By reading the first three posts, it sure sounds like someone wants these " OC dunces" to stop, to me..............................or am I mistaken. Otherwise, why bring it up?

I want the dunces like Watkins to stop hurting the movement with their BS bullying tactics & scaring the sheep. There is a right way and a wrong way. He and a handful of the OCT people are doing it the wrong way and getting the media to focus on their stupid tactics of crowding into an anti-gun state representative's office with their ARs, and their mall ninja packing at Starbucks.

They are causing the negative backlash and making it that much more difficult to win a very winnable issue. I seriously question their intentions, as it appears they are deliberately trying to sabotage OC in our Great State. Some of them have already been kicked out of the OCT organization. Y'all should read what the majority of the guys on Texas Gun Talk think about them.

They don't need to shut up, they just need to get smart. It took 20 years from the first CHL bill being signed into Texas law (thank you George Bush) to get it modified & expanded & more liberal (yes, liberal). Licensed open carry, while still repugnant to me, is just a step in the right direction and Constitutional carry won't be far behind. It is embarrassing to note that 43 other states are more liberal than Texas concerning OC, but overcoming the oppressive gun control laws instituted by Texas democrats 140 years ago is not an easy task even with a republican controlled Legislature and a gun guy Governor.

I might note that a great American military hero, Admiral McRaven (the guy who oversaw the operation that killed that piece of human filth terrorist Osama Bin Ladin) the new Chancellor of the University of Texas System, testified before a state senate committee that he is opposed to the Campus Carry bill. Naturally, the media focuses on people like him, and the handful of klutzes in the OCT movement who are getting bad press.

On the other hand, testifying before the same Senate committee about Campus carry, the Austin Chief of Police (Art Acevedo - a liberal political cop from Los Angeles) said yesterday that rather than see women students defend themselves with handguns against being raped on campus, they should just get over it and avail themselves of the extensive counseling & recovery services. That has sparked an outrage on local radio talk shows & social media, but so far is being ignored by the local TV stations. This is making the rounds - and I hope that horrible gaffe gets that dirtbag fired:

http://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10450147_976254152386013_917698133251418657_n.jpg? oh=4b88e84a76bdd3a9189ba31db349e99b&oe=5558FF32&__gda__=1435334988_24fec6a394918206778a85a35bcfd8e 5

[ScottM]

Austin Chief of Police (Art Acevedo - a liberal political cop from Los Angeles) said yesterday that rather than see women students defend themselves with handguns against being raped on campus, they should just get over it and avail themselves of the extensive counseling & recovery services. That has sparked an outrage on local radio talk shows & social media, but so far is being ignored by the local TV stations. This is making the rounds - and I hope that horrible gaffe gets that dirtbag fired:

Alternatively he keeps gaffing, and that hopefully encourages students and their parents to see what lawful gun ownership is all about - individual protection from real evils in the world.

[berettabone]

I want the dunces like Watkins to stop hurting the movement with their BS bullying tactics & scaring the sheep. There is a right way and a wrong way. He and a handful of the OCT people are doing it the wrong way and getting the media to focus on their stupid tactics of crowding into an anti-gun state representative's office with their ARs, and their mall ninja packing at Starbucks.

They are causing the negative backlash and making it that much more difficult to win a very winnable issue. I seriously question their intentions, as it appears they are deliberately trying to sabotage OC in our Great State. Some of them have already been kicked out of the OCT organization. Y'all should read what the majority of the guys on Texas Gun Talk think about them.

They don't need to shut up, they just need to get smart. It took 20 years from the first CHL bill being signed into Texas law (thank you George Bush) to get it modified & expanded & more liberal (yes, liberal). Licensed open carry, while still repugnant to me, is just a step in the right direction and Constitutional carry won't be far behind. It is embarrassing to note that 43 other states are more liberal than Texas concerning OC, but overcoming the oppressive gun control laws instituted by Texas democrats 140 years ago is not an easy task even with a republican controlled Legislature and a gun guy Governor.

I might note that a great American military hero, Admiral McRaven (the guy who oversaw the operation that killed that piece of human filth terrorist Osama Bin Ladin) the new Chancellor of the University of Texas System, testified before a state senate committee that he is opposed to the Campus Carry bill. Naturally, the media focuses on people like him, and the handful of klutzes in the OCT movement who are getting bad press.

On the other hand, testifying before the same Senate committee about Campus carry, the Austin Chief of Police (Art Acevedo - a liberal political cop from Los Angeles) said yesterday that rather than see women students defend themselves with handguns against being raped on campus, they should just get over it and avail themselves of the extensive counseling & recovery services. That has sparked an outrage on local radio talk shows & social media, but so far is being ignored by the local TV stations. This is making the rounds - and I hope that horrible gaffe gets that dirtbag fired:

http://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10450147_976254152386013_917698133251418657_n.jpg? oh=4b88e84a76bdd3a9189ba31db349e99b&oe=5558FF32&__gda__=1435334988_24fec6a394918206778a85a35bcfd8e 5

Are you reading knkali??????????????????????People do want these OC'ers to stop what they are doing. That means violating their rights.

[knkali]

Are you reading knkali??????????????????????People do want these OC'ers to stop what they are doing. That means violating their rights.

Still not sure if you and I agree. I thought we did. I will put my 2 centavos out there so we can talk if you choose.

I think that the OC rifle guys that run around with rifles displayed and scaring the sheet out of people do more harm to our ability to OC than help. I want them to stop. I want OC but their tactics are not a good way to get public acceptance IMHO. I, and I think there are many here who agree with me on this. do NOT want to see their rights violated in an effort to stop them. Longitude Zero said it best and I paraphrase: You have the right to drive a car with your feet but it is not a good idea. I think I might be missing something between us--sorry. I thought per your earlier post that you agreed? Here is what you posted earlier...."That being said, most of the time, I don't agree with the tactics used by some of these so called " 2nd amendment supporters", carrying their rifles around, and strutting like turkeys during mating season....." Am I wrong that we agree? Where have I gone astray? Wanting someone to not do something is a far cry from the G making them not do it. Agreed? Again, I am not trying to be a smart ***. I truly want to know where you and I differ on this. Thanks

[muggsy]

When my dad was a kid he'd take his shotgun to school. When school let out he'd board a streetcar and take it to the end of the line to hunt rabbits. Coming home he'd be complimented on how many rabbits he had brought to bag. My, how times have changed since the 1930's. (It's not times that have changed. It's attitudes that have changed.)

[berettabone]

[QUOTE=knkali;333598]Still not sure if you and I agree. I thought we did. I will put my 2 centavos out there so we can talk if you choose.

I think that the OC rifle guys that run around with rifles displayed and scaring the sheet out of people do more harm to our ability to OC than help. I want them to stop. I want OC but their tactics are not a good way to get public acceptance IMHO. I, and I think there are many here who agree with me on this. do NOT want to see their rights violated in an effort to stop them. Longitude Zero said it best and I paraphrase: You have the right to drive a car with your feet but it is not a good idea. I think I might be missing something between us--sorry. I thought per your earlier post that you agreed? Here is what you posted earlier...."That being said, most of the time, I don't agree with the tactics used by some of these so called " 2nd amendment supporters", carrying their rifles around, and strutting like turkeys during mating season....." Am I wrong that we agree? Where have I gone astray? Wanting someone to not do something is a far cry from the G making them not do it. Agreed? Again, I am not trying to be a smart ***. I truly want to know where you and I differ on this. Thanks[/QUO
We totally agree about the OC's actions. Wishing is for the tooth fairy. Ignore these people. If your not ready to tell these people to stop, or stop them yourself, let it go. There are a lot bigger fish to fry, than these arse puppets. Concentrate on something else, like this global warming I'm having up here..........-20 with the breeze. These people will always be around. It's their right, there is nothing we can do about it, except try to educate. Believe it or not, these OC'ers are on the same side that we are, they just have lower IQ's, which is no fault of their own.:rolleyes:

[SlowBurn]

When my dad was a kid he'd take his shotgun to school. When school let out he'd board a streetcar and take it to the end of the line to hunt rabbits. Coming home he'd be complimented on how many rabbits he had brought to bag. My, how times have changed since the 1930's. (It's not times that have changed. It's attitudes that have changed.)

Both have changed.

Nowadays kids don't take the streetcar to go rabbit hunting. Nowadays Islamic jihadis and lunies shoot people in malls and other places. If someone were to parade around a shopping mall with an AR15, bullet resistant clothing, and multiple loaded 100 round mags, which image comes to mind? If you really want to encourage people to do things like that, to prove a point about exercising their rights, I don't know what to say.

[Armybrat]

Are you reading knkali??????????????????????People do want these OC'ers to stop what they are doing. That means violating their rights.
Just where did I say anything about violating their rights?

You must have missed this tidbit I wrote in that post:

They don't need to shut up, they just need to get smart.

[knkali]

[QUOTE=knkali;333598]
We totally agree about the OC's actions. Wishing is for the tooth fairy. Ignore these people. If your not ready to tell these people to stop, or stop them yourself, let it go. There are a lot bigger fish to fry, than these arse puppets. Concentrate on something else, like this global warming I'm having up here..........-20 with the breeze. These people will always be around. It's their right, there is nothing we can do about it, except try to educate. Believe it or not, these OC'ers are on the same side that we are, they just have lower IQ's, which is no fault of their own.:rolleyes:

we completely agree with each other! However I think that the gun community has to handle these zealots form within. Conversations on forums like this and dialog in meetings, associations, ranges, gun shows and other gun centered events can do a lot to quell this over the top behavior. The power of the "social norm" can be very effective. So in a small way, we are doing something here right now with this thread. These zealots read these boards too. I agree it will never go completely away. All we can do is try to marginalize them as much as possible and do damage control when necessary.

[Longitude Zero]

Treason is punishable by death. I don't believe that this implies that anyone who makes such a statement is threatening to kill anyone, though that may be the liberal
interpretation of what was said. I also believe that from time to time it's good to remind the politicians that they work for us and not the reverse. Too many in office think that they know better than you what's good for you. The majority of them have a D behind their names.

Absolutely. They are our servants and not the reverse.

[berettabone]

Just where did I say anything about violating their rights?

You must have missed this tidbit I wrote in that post:

You didn't.............................are you going to stop them? I'm just curious, because I thought we were all past this he said, she said crap. If your not, then move on. " They don't need to shut up, they just need to get smart". The tooth fairy left a quarter under your pillow.:o My statement said/meant, If you want them to stop, you will have to stop them, which would be violating their rights. No more, no less.

[berettabone]

[QUOTE=berettabone;333628]

we completely agree with each other! However I think that the gun community has to handle these zealots form within. Conversations on forums like this and dialog in meetings, associations, ranges, gun shows and other gun centered events can do a lot to quell this over the top behavior. The power of the "social norm" can be very effective. So in a small way, we are doing something here right now with this thread. These zealots read these boards too. I agree it will never go completely away. All we can do is try to marginalize them as much as possible and do damage control when necessary.

Sometimes, if you just leave them alone, they shoot themselves in the foot, if you know what I mean.................:rolleyes:

[GROTMAN]

How bans on open carry may ruin our love lives..

http://i.imgur.com/vKUV3Tg.gif

[Longitude Zero]

The left OTOH tend to focus solely on the common goal and do not let little things like details get in the way. This makes them a formidable adversary.

So true. also conservatives tend to demand complete agreement across the board. for instance I have seen folk agree with a politician on 90% of their views but disagree on 105 and refuse to vote for them because of that 10% disagreement. Liberals and the D's will not do this. To take an adage from the animal kingdom we tend to eat our young and they don't.

[Armybrat]

Anyway, the Chief of the Thrall, Texas PD started trolling the Austin PD Chief Acevedo on FaceBook after his shocking testimony to the legislative committee considering the Campus Carry bill. He posted this:

http://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s526x395/10922814_797877526915529_3886138457259691662_n.jpg ?oh=679aa7e0bfff0ae2a0fff6caa50be23a&oe=554CA21F&__gda__=1431246401_8eb4552cd4ee0ff90d58801823e1ce7 e

[ScottM]

That is awesome!

[muggsy]

So true. also conservatives tend to demand complete agreement across the board. for instance I have seen folk agree with a politician on 90% of their views but disagree on 105 and refuse to vote for them because of that 10% disagreement. Liberals and the D's will not do this. To take an adage from the animal kingdom we tend to eat our young and they don't.

If you agreed with 90 percent of a candidates views except for his desire to ban all guns would you vote for him? I vote for people of character who share my basic principles.

[Armybrat]

Trouble is, it is VERY tough to find a candidate who has good character, much less shares my basic principles. Such people tend to stay away from the sausage factory that is politics.

[ScottM]

Trouble is, it is VERY tough to find a candidate who has good character, much less shares my basic principles. Such people tend to stay away from the sausage factory that is politics.

+One Gazillion

I doubt it's even possible to enter politics without a strong agenda involving personal gain, fame and ego. Money completely dominates politics, especially now after Citizens United. It is the capital of power and influence on all sides of the isle.