Struggling with a decision

[pcv57]

I recently purchased a used P380 at a local gun store. I have read about the break-in procedure for new Kahrs but have no idea what the previous owner did with it. After my first session at the range, it performed very well. I was surprised at how accurate it was for such a small gun. I brought it home disassembled and cleaned it. When I went back to the range a week later, I had several FTF using various brands of ammo. Each time the round had a light strike with the primer barely dimpled. I have 30 days to return the gun and get credit towards another gun. I brought it back to the store and had them send it back to Kahr with an estimated 2-3 week turnaround.
Here's my dilemma: I've read various reports of similar quirky things going on with P/CW380s. It seems that when you have a good one, they are very good but if they go back for repair they often aren't reliable after that. Should I just bite the bullet (no pun intended) and trade it in towards something else? This will be my primary carry piece and I have to have complete trust in it. My M&P 40 works flawlessly, no matter what ammo I put through it.
Suggestions? :confused:

[DavidS]

If you are asking questions here, you do not "have complete trust in it".

And, if you plan to make a decision in 30 days, with it out for service for 20 of those days, you do not have time to develop that trust.

[b4uqzme]

I've been reading these threads for awhile and my take on it is a little different. A few do indeed need to go back for repair but the vast majority don't. And of the ones that go back, the vast majority come back fixed and reliable. With that said, only you can confirm that yours is trustworthy. The same would be for any gun. There really isn't any margin for error with your primary carry. I wouldn't blame you if you took the safe route. But understanding that whatever you replace it with will also have to prove itself trustworthy. Good luck.

P.S. Money should be your last concern when you are preparing to save your life. It might be worth holding onto. If it doesn't work out, you are only out money. If it does, you got a great pistol.

P.S.S. Welcome. Thanks for the post.

[muggsy]

I would never consider a .380 as my primary carry. A 9MM or .38 spcl. is as low as you should go. Having said that I'm never without my P380. If I were you I'd find a brand of ammo that the gun prefers and/or send the gun back to Kahr. If it then fails to perform you can always sell it or trade it in on another gun.

[pcv57]

I called the store and they are willing to extend my 30 day warranty period. When I get the gun back from Kahr I'll have a chance to give it a good run. I love the P380 and really want this to work out. Sometimes when you go to a forum and read all the horror stories you can get a very distorted view. People who are happy tell one person, people who are unhappy tell everyone. The same thing happened to me when I bought my last motorcycle and it's been great. I'll be sure to post a report when I get the gun back.

[pcv57]

Well, I just got my P380 back from Kahr. The repair order stated "Complete parts upgrade" and they replaced both mags with brand new ones. I called them back and asked the customer service rep exactly what was done. He said they went through the whole slide and replaced anything that either looked worn or had an upgraded replacement part for it but he wouldn't or couldn't tell me what.
I took it to the range and put 150 rounds through it. I had no FTFs, 1 failure to feed, but the slide didn't want to lock open after the last round when I used the new mags but not when I used my 2 other mags, including the extended mag. I'm not sure if they had anything to do with it or just coincidence.
Next time out I'll switch up the ammo and see how it goes.

[CJB]

I'm glad your P380 went to the mother ship. There was a run, about two years ago, with sort of soft frames. Not really soft, but they'd be not stiff enough, and would deflect under firing. Since your P380 went back, it has been evaluated for that issue.

Here's a few things to consider -

Before you go to the range next time, remove the barrel, and drop EVERY round into the chamber, making sure it falls freely and fully into the chamber. Kahr chambers are on the tighter side of SAAMI spec. Ammo on the generous side may not chamber as easily (needs a press with your finger doing the test above), or not chamber at all. You're ruling out ammo sizing related issues with that test. Make sure the chamber is perfectly clean. Shoot the hottest ammo you can get hold of, in order to break in that "too tight on purpose" recoil spring. Remember to take breaks. Tired shooting, even after a few mags worth, can cause a grip related malfunction on a new gun thats still breaking in. If you have a stoppage - photograph it! Doing so may help correct the issue. If ammo is not chambering well after a bit of firing, check the chamber for flakes of unburnt powder.

The tight chambers on Kahr pistols help with their overall accuracy. But... its a mixed bag, as it also make things more finicky. As guns break in, they will become less finicky....

[kenscot]

I wish you luck with your p380 I purchased one and loved everything about it except reliability :( After trying every available brand of ammo I could get my hands on, over 1200 rounds worth, 3 trips back to Kahr with several parts replaced including the frame I could never get it to shoot a box of 50 without some form of malfunction. In the end I traded it in for another 380. Is the trigger as smooth ? Nope but it does go bang and cycle every time. Really hated having to do it but reliability is every thing to me

[SlowBurn]

... the slide didn't want to lock open after the last round when I used the new mags but not when I used my 2 other mags, including the extended mag. I'm not sure if they had anything to do with it or just coincidence.

Its probably the mags. The last round hold open definitely depends on the magazine, specifically the little metal do-dad on the follower. When last round loads, the follower reaches the top of the mag and the metal dohicky pushes up on the slide lock. That way when the slide recoils back, it locks open. So if hold-open works with some mags and not others, its probably not coincidence.

Here's a you tube video which helps explain how it works. It involves a CW9, but the P380 works the same way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUbDrzZUc6E
I hope you can get confident with your P380. Its a great gun.

[Redleg]

pcv57,
Regarding your failures to lock open on the last round: I was having the same issue, but couldn't tie it down to a particular magazine(s). A friend noted that it may be my grip causing the problem. I shoot a 1911 pistol with my gripping hand thumb riding the safety. Unfortunately, this style puts my thumb on the slide release of the P380 and recoil seems to trip the release a good deal of the time. Lowering the position of my thumb cured the problem.

Regarding reliability: When I first got my P380 I had a failure rate of over 10%, even after the initial 200 round break-in period. This was similar with about 9 brands of ammo, except for Fiocchi of which I only got 1 round to feed and fire. The problem with the Fiocchi ammo seemed to be that the case rim is from .005"to .007" thicker than the other brands I used. All of my failures to feed had the cartridge rim partially under the extractor and the nose of the bullet jammed against the top of the chamber. That got me looking at the extractor as the problem. It took a good deal of effort to manually insert a cartridge under the extractor with the slide removed from the frame. There also seemed to be a great deal of extractor tension. The extractor itself was rather rough and the leading edge when it contacts the cartridge in the groove was very sharp and there was a sharp angle on the face of the extractor where the case first contacts it. I anticipated screwing something up and ordered replace parts for the extractor and set about polishing/rounding the sharp edge and rounding the face of the extractor. In addition I reduced the spring tension by shortening the back extractor pin. All this improved the failure rate, but didn't eliminate it. The new extractor proved to be the cure. It was highly polished and had a radius on the face that the original didn't have. After installing the new extractor and returning the spring tension back to the original spec, the pistol has performed flawlessly, even with my handloads using mixed cases and two different bullet types (RN and RNFP), and with Winchester PDX1 HP's and Hornady Critical Defense. I guess the point of all this is that I had about 850 rounds invested before things came together. Hang in there, don't give up on it too soon as you'll miss out on a great little shooter.

[pcv57]

Thanks all for the feedback. I did call Kahr and ask about the mags. They said send them back and we'll replace them. I felt like it was easier to do that than answer the question about what the potential cause was. I have 4 mags; 2 new and 2 older. I shot them in succession without changing my grip so I don't think that's it. Maybe the ammo wasn't hot enough to get the slide back far enough to catch the top of the new mag. I like the idea of removing the barrel and dropping different ammo in to see if it seats correctly. I'll try that and report back. Sure wish I could find .380 ammo tho :(