New to Kahr - Undecided

[New2Kahr]

Hello ladies and gents - legitimate new member here - not here to bash. I have yet to purchase a Kahr and I'm on the fence. I have scoured the internet and these forums, doing quite a bit of research. Quickly, love to shoot. I'm a CZ fan and own several (go buy one, or two, or three if you don't own one). I have a S&W 640-1 Pro Series J-frame for carry. I just sold a S&W Shield. Well made gun but it doesn't fit my hand. I can shoot tight groups but they're just left of center. Put it in my off-hand and I shoot on center. Fought with it for a year and finally gave up - don't like the trigger - hand doesn't like gun - frustrating - she's sold. I'm very good with CZs and J-frame.

To the point. Went to the range and shot CW9 and CM9. All I can say is WOW! The things are phenomenally accurate and man do I love that trigger. Just so natural and smooth. No problem shooting both eyes open or just instinctively - no sights - 5, 7 and 10 yards, doesn't matter. The things are intuitive and like an extension of my hand. Just natural - very little thought involved. Perfect for self defense scenario where little time or thought is allowed. Been shot at before (once) and have had many brawls - some good, some not so good :rolleyes:. There's virtually no time to decide anything other than react, and the adrenaline dump is a huge factor. That's why I carry the revolver - point and shoot - no thought. The Kahr seems to fit this same role. Did I say I LOVE the trigger? Accuracy? I mentioned that, right?

Ya'll are brutally honest here on these forums and I'm really concerned about quality and reliability. Many, many, many complaints here and out on the internet in general. I love motorcycles as well and the theme reminds me of the love-hate relationship owners have with their Ducatis and Moto Guzzis - and dare I say Harleys(?). Awesome machines but man are they unreliable. Had a Moto Guzzi and they bought it back from me - lemon.

So, I'm assuming I should go into this expecting problems, in spite of all the good break-in information here and my general knowledge. Seems like teething issues are a given and I'll likely have to send it back at some point. Which, makes me think that there's no point in buying anything other than the "Value" series CW and/or CM. Why waste dollars on something that's going to need work regardless? Besides, seems like only difference between C and P is a bit of machining, slide stop/lever and barrel, and dovetailed front sight. I've heard that over and over. Other than that - no difference. Doubt a match barrel makes any difference with these pistols and intended range. P doesn't seem worth the extra cost.

I've made a long list of all the things I need to look for when inspecting the gun at time of purchase. I will purchase new. I'm expecting to pay between $350 to $375 for CW or CM. I'm wondering if it makes sense to wait for the new factory to be built and operational, to see what sort of product it turns out. One would have to imagine new machinery would be involved as well, right?

Let me know thoughts and if I have all of this correct in my mind.

I did have one FTF at the range but that's because I racked the slide first time and didn't use the slide release, which the guy at the counter told me to do (I remembered after the failure). I guess it speaks volumes that they have several Kahrs for use at the range. Guy said no major issues and man were they dirty. That said, not many for sale around here. But, I live in the land of the Glock. So, either bad reputation or no interest/lack of sales.

Thanks,

Jim

[Alfonse]

I can google defective Glocks and find a whole bunch of threads about a variety of problems with every Glock out there. Try it. I can do the same thing with Toyota.

Kahrs are very high quality and Kahr stands behind their products. If you like the way they shoot, you really can't do better.

[bsmith712]

I own multiple kahrs. Never had an issue. I own several glocks. Had one that was a nightmare with jams. Glock couldn't fix the issue. You'll never here much about the millions of good guns but you'll hear tons about that bad one. Buy it if you like it. You're thinking way too much about it.

[kwh]

I see no reason not to buy a CM/CW now. They should work fine after the break in. Keep them clean and lubed. I never have shot my CM9 (every day pocket carry) or my CW45 IWB, or my CW380 more than 50 times without cleaning, so I do not know how they would shoot dirty. After break-in, no failures of any kind with my CM9. My CW45 was 100% with ammo it liked, hardball practice and PoweRball carry, until I had failures to fully feed. A new recoil spring fixed that. So far, after break-in ,CW380 no failures with a limited number of brands of ammo. About 375 rounds so far. I have a 40 cal S&W Shield and have never had any type of failure ,but I do not carry it much because I shoot my Kahrs better.

[b4uqzme]

The interweb does a terrible job of representing the number of problems. Only the complainers complain. Issues are more rare than they seem from what you read. And as you so articulately point out...even if you have issues, Kahrs are worth it.

[New2Kahr]

Thanks for the replies so far. So, I'm assuming CW and CM are practical choices, unless a P comes up at a great price? I'd like a K but I already have range guns and I can't see carrying a K.

[Alfonse]

I've had a PM9 since before there was a choice for a CM. I probably would have gotten the CM if it existed. Thousands of flawless rounds through my PM9.

I thought like you do regarding the K and MK. But, I bought both recently. Love those pistols too. The PM/CM I appreciate because they are everything you need, optimized, for a small carry pistol, and nothing you don't. They are extremely well executed designs optimal for carry. I've carried my PM for over 5 years, all the time. I still can't think of a more optimal tool for carry today.

The all metal guns have a few more ounces on them but don't take up any extra space. The MK is now in my carry rotation and is also a fantastic tool for carry. I just never realized how badly I needed the all steel Kahrs until after I bought them. They shoot like dreams.

[New2Kahr]

By the way, I do shoot what I think to be a lot and I know the Kahr will see a lot of use - probably about 250 to 500 rounds every other week for a couple of months. Then probably 300 a month on average after that. Wonder if I can use it for IDPA. That's every week and usually about 100 to 150 rounds, depending on time and number of folks.

[b4uqzme]

Good dialogue. I carry steel Kahrs often. All it requires is a good holster and belt. But any Kahr will stand up to your shooting volume. There is no practical difference between "C" and "P" regarding durability...I think that is what you are asking. BTW, I shoot a K40 for IDPA BUG matches.

[ulflyer]

I've had a P45 for several years and like you, love the trigger. Never an issue with it. Recently I got interested in shooting and reloading and bought the CW380 and CW9. I did the prescribed fluff and buff, lubed well, and have had ZERO issues. Presently the CW9 has about 200 round thru with no cleaning (other than bore)...just wanting to see how long it takes before it stops.

I carry OWB so I went with the CW9 for longer grip. Didn't do my research or I'd have got the CT380 for its longer grip, but the CW gets the job done. If you want one already broken in and running flawlessly, find me a CT and I'll trade with you. :D

PS: I frequently "sling shot" both of the above when loading. Absolutely no problems.

[ScottM]

I also love motorcycles and I love my CM45. I did have to spend time breaking in the gun and stoning the barrel hood to improve round ejection, but I'm comfortable with light 'smithing and equate it to the little stuff you have to do to every new bike to make it like you personally want it. And although a Kahr does have a 200 round break-in period, it thankfully doesn't require a pricey 600 mile dealer service or periodic valve adjustments!

[Have Trumpet Will Travel]

Lifelong motorcyclist here also. There is always a little tweaking with tires, adjusting levers, etc. Back to the Kahr newbies like myself, what is "stoning the barrel hood"? I see that the top of the barrel is angled and when disengaged from the frame must move down so the frame can cycle backward to eject and load. Are you suggesting using a stone to dress the surface? It will get pounded, mine already has and it is a week old today. All guns have parts that wear faster than others, be it springs, strikers or whatever. I'm hoping my two .40's (a CM and an MK I have on order) will last me from here on, they are both new and I am mid-60's. Interested to see what stoning is defined as, Thanks.

[diablo53]

Don't not buy a gun based on negative reviews. Just look at the price of these guns. They aren't $150 HiPoints. Buy what you like, shoot it like you stole it. If you have an issue, take solace in knowing Kahr's service is pretty darn easy to deal with.

[yqtszhj]

Buy a kahr 9mm. You wont regret it.

[b4uqzme]

Buy a kahr 9mm. You wont regret it.

There ya go...some good, solid advice. :D

[h2ohhh]

Love my CW45. Carry it every day and its my least expensive pistol. Had one FTE during its first 25 rounds and that was likely a limp wrist. After 100 rounds the gun smooths out noticeably. Its a sewing machine. Buy a Kahr CM or CW. Low risk investment.

[thelawless1]

Just do it!

My EDC is a CM9 and with 1000+ rounds through it, it runs like a dream. I love this gun so much I've also recently invested in a PM9, which after broken in will replace my CM as my EDC.

No regrets!


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[New2Kahr]

Okay, so I went out today and fondled and field stripped every Kahr I could get my hands on, everything from CM9 and CW9, to TP9, P9, MK9 and K9 Elite 03. I'll start off by stating the obvious - the MK and K series are finely crafted works or art. Feel great with smooth actions, slides, etc. I can get a K9 Elite 03 for $689. MK9 for $706.

Here's what surprised me. I didn't expect to feel a difference between the C and P series, but I did. I thought the only difference was barrel, dovetail sight, shaved slide and slide release/lever. BUT, the PM9 and P9 felt better in the hand, better trigger and smoother/less effort slide action. Seemed like lighter weight recoil spring as well, which was plainly evident when field stripping - easier to remove.

Any thoughts on this? Sales guy said the P models are hand fitted. I don't see anything about this on the Kahr website. To me, the price difference seems worth it. The P "feels" like a better gun all around in comparison to the C. And, yes, I'm aware of the psychological part that plays in - more expensive means better. I don't think this is it - the differences were readily apparent.

Thanks,

Jm

[marcinstl]

I gave up on motorcycle mechanics and sold the Norton's and Harley's, started riding motorcycles when I got a Suzuki. I liked riding.
other than a defect that should have been recalled (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?23100-CW45-owners&p=293510#post293510) I haven't had a problem with either CM9 or CW9.
revolver shooters usually don't have a problem with a Kahr trigger. somebody coming from a SA pistol like a 1911, might think a Kahr trigger is awful. hehehehehe, did you ever have a dual purpose motorcycle? it was crap on the street and in the woods? there's target/range pistols and there's carry pistols. Kahr makes a good carry pistol.

[New2Kahr]

Way ahead of you buddy - KLR650 for the woods and V-Strom 650 for the street!

[Alfonse]

The P series are supposed to be premium. I have read threads where a member was working on his CM and used PM parts in the repair. The PM parts were machined from stock and some of the CM were MIM. So, there probably is some difference. If you like the premium pistols, by all means get one.

[marshal kane]

. . . Back to the Kahr newbies like myself, what is "stoning the barrel hood"? I see that the top of the barrel is angled and when disengaged from the frame must move down so the frame can cycle backward to eject and load. Are you suggesting using a stone to dress the surface? . . . Interested to see what stoning is defined as, Thanks.
Stoning the barrel hood refers to fitting the barrel to the slide. The portion of the barrel that is stoned, the barrel hood, is that portion of the barrel that abuts the breech face of the slide when the slide is locked to the barrel. Anyone stoning a barrel hood should have some mechanical aptitude and understand the relationship between the slide and barrel before attempting this as once material is removed from the barrel hood, it cannot be replaced. If you feel that your barrel and slide are not fitted properly, I would suggest you take your pistol to a competent gunsmith and have it done either by the gunsmith or returned to the factory. For more information: see Bar-Sto barrel fitting on the net.

[marcinstl]

Way ahead of you buddy - KLR650 for the woods and V-Strom 650 for the street!

so your getting the new 6" barrel Gen2 Premium for a target gun and a regular CM9 for carry? sounds good.