First time CCW coming up, and out of state to boot

[aray]

I've had my non-resident FL CCW permit a couple of months now but so far I haven't been able to travel out of state, and of course MD is effectively a "no issue" CCW state unless you're politically connected or other rare exceptions. To date, all I've been able to do is to carry around the house after work to get used to the holster, discover what clothes work well without printing, etc.

That's about to change. Later this month we'll be headed to NC for a one-day family reunion then almost immediately thereafter we'll be camping in PA near Gettysburg for almost a week.

So for the first time ever in my life, I get to legally CCW outside of my own house. I'm sure that's a yawner to many of you for whom this is as natural as breathing, but for folks who have been denied this right forever it's a pretty big deal, at least it is for me. I'm really looking forward to it.

So I'm getting prepared for these two trips and wanted to know what others do when they are carrying - specifically carrying out of state. Here's the process I've gone through and would appreciate any thoughts on things I've left out:

* My first step is to stop by Handgunlaw.us (http://www.handgunlaw.us/) to check out what the laws are in that particular state. For example in reading some of Massad Ayoob's work I was shocked to learn that in some states you can be arrested if you go into a Wal-Mart that simply sells wine - even if you don't intend to buy any. Just being inside the store is enough. Ditto a Red Lobster, Olive Garden, etc. Some states you can go into places as long as you don't drink, other states as long as you aren't in a pure bar-like environment, while still others if they even have a liquor license.

* I then double check the other state laws at NRA-ILA :: (http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Default.aspx#?st=NC)

* Finally, I triple check the laws posted on the official state web sites.

I find the first site the easiest to quickly find what I'm looking for, but the third the most official of course.

* One final thing along those lines I've taken to finding and printing a copy of the reciprocity agreement between Florida (my permit state) and the state to which I'm traveling. I do this in case, God forbid, I find myself in a self defense situation where I have to use my weapon. Besides handing the responding LEO my CCW permit, I figure it might be helpful to at the same time pass along the official state reciprocity agreement, since the generic street cop might not know the intricacies of which state his own does or doesn't recognize for carry.

* Since I'm not going to be around the house where I have backup guns & ammunition, I'm planning to load and carry a couple of extra magazines with me. My Kahr CW9 single stack magazines are pretty small so I figure it won't be too hard to shove a couple extra in a pocket somewhere.

* Pack appropriate clothes that hide the CW9 well. Yes, I know concealed means concealed.

* And in my case of course I also have to bring a separate container to unload & secure the CW9 as I pass out of or into the state of Maryland where CCW is not allowed for mere mortals.

Any other steps any of you go through when you carry out of state? Again I know for some of you this is all routine stuff, but for me, well I'm just a CCW virgin, at least for another few weeks.

Thanks.

[Dietrich]

I remember that it was a BIG DEAL indeed the first time I carried.The same way it was a big deal to legally drive.I`m very happy for you and I hope you enjoy yourself.If you have any specific questions about carrying in North Carolina,I`ll be glad to help if I can.Relax,enjoy yourself and don`t overeat at your reunion if you can help it.Have a nice trip.

[johnatw]

Ray
I'm coming to Western MD. for a 50th class reunion in Aug. MD was my home state years ago, and it is hard to understand the cc laws there. I guess the only safe thing for me to do is leave the CW40 in the safe at home. If I took it I would carry it.
John

[jlottmc]

Ray your actions should keep you out of hot water, not to suggest anything illegal or anything, but like the old saying, "it's only a crime if you get caught". Just don't attract attention and all should be smooth.

[Dietrich]

Oh yeah,I forgot to ask you to give us a report when you get back.We`re looking forward to hearing how things went and how it felt to walk heavy for the first time.Good luck to you.

[aray]

Ray
I'm coming to Western MD. for a 50th class reunion in Aug. MD was my home state years ago, and it is hard to understand the cc laws there. I guess the only safe thing for me to do is leave the CW40 in the safe at home. If I took it I would carry it.
John

Sadly, I have to urge you to leave your gun at home when you return to MD. Maryland will not recognize your carry permit. If you get caught in this anti-gun state they will arrest and prosecute you. Then not only will you have to deal with the consequences in Maryland, you'll have a felony firearms conviction on your record which will endanger your right to carry in every other state as well, since your CCW permit back home will be probably then be revoked. Sigh. It's Maryland.

Oh, and Dietrich, I was searching for the right words to describe how I feel about my first CCW at the advanced age of 53. You're right; it's sorta like being able to drive for the first time. Still a few weeks out however, but I'm pretty excited about it. And yup, I do plan on a trip report.

Thanks.

[johnatw]

Thanks Ray, I'll follow your advice.
John

[DKD]

I really have a problem with states like Maryland..................
What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" don't they understand!!!!????
As far as I am concerned tha Constitution and the Bill of Rights is my carry permit...end of conversation!

[aray]

I really have a problem with states like Maryland..................
What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" don't they understand!!!!????
As far as I am concerned tha Constitution and the Bill of Rights is my carry permit...end of conversation!

While I'm sympathetic I'm also realistic. What "should be" is not "what is". I have a problem with my home state of MD too. But the fact remains that if you carry in this state they will arrest you, prosecute you, and probably convict you, and then you'll almost certainly lose your carry permit in all other states.

Don't shoot the messenger but I'm telling you, there are only three choices: 1) don't carry in Maryland, 2) carry in Maryland and suffer the severe consequences, or 3) don't come to Maryland.

I'm here for my particular job right now, which really only exists in this state. But trust me, as soon as I retire, for a whole lot of reasons I hope never to set foot in this state again, thus moving from choice #1 to choice #3. (I'm thinking TN or KY might make an attractive retirement venue...)

[Dietrich]

Can`t say anything one way or the other about Kentucky but I`ve met some of the nicest people in the world from Tennessee.Both states make some fine whiskey.Tax paid or not.

[qshipglide]

While I'm sympathetic I'm also realistic. What "should be" is not "what is". I have a problem with my home state of MD too. But the fact remains that if you carry in this state they will arrest you, prosecute you, and probably convict you, and then you'll almost certainly lose your carry permit in all other states.

Don't shoot the messenger but I'm telling you, there are only three choices: 1) don't carry in Maryland, 2) carry in Maryland and suffer the severe consequences, or 3) don't come to Maryland.

I'm here for my particular job right now, which really only exists in this state. But trust me, as soon as I retire, for a whole lot of reasons I hope never to set foot in this state again, thus moving from choice #1 to choice #3. (I'm thinking TN or KY might make an attractive retirement venue...)

As a former Cecil Co. Md. deputy sheriff, I'd have to say you left out option #4... carry and dont get caught. Since no one in Maryland can guarantee you and/or a member/s of your family wont be a victim of a crime. Big Boy rules apply. Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

[Bawanna]

As a former Cecil Co. Md. deputy sheriff, I'd have to say you left out option #4... carry and dont get caught. Since no one in Maryland can guarantee you and/or a member/s of your family wont be a victim of a crime. Big Boy rules apply. Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Heck yes! I wanted to say exactly that but I didn't want to contribute to the deliquancy of a Big Boy.
I'm betting unless your involved in something foolish or go someplace very foolish the lawmen there will not be to concerned with you. Conceal it very well, forget it's there, and DON'T GET CAUGHT.
If perish the thought you get in a bind and use your weapon and win. That's a fine and wonderful thing. Your then gonna be in trouble, alot of trouble but I don't think anymore there than anyplace else.
It'll be the typical have to prove you did what you had to do.

[noslolo]

I lived in The People Republik of Maryland for 18 years and I have continued to work in MD for the last 10 years. Let me give a brief explanation. I found a job in PA and all of my wifes family was in PA, so we had been looking to move. The move date was Oct 8th, 2001. We leased a house, sold the one we had in MD and then 9/11 happened, and the job I was moving for stopped hiring. I was stuck with the move so I asked my boss, if I could stay on with a lower job, where I could do live in and knock out my 40hrs a week in 3 days. I have been doing that, like I said for the last 10 years. I can't have my carry gun at the job, but I can have it in my car. So I take the mag out and the ammo out of the mag, and i keep them all seperated in the trunk of my car. When I cross the PA line, they all go back together and on my hip. It's a pain but half of my 210 mile commute is in PA, so I like to have it. I travel back late at night, so it is a huge comfort to have it and I always have my folding tactical and mag light close at hand while in the Peoples Rupblik. I worked as a bail enforcement agent in MD for a year and I still couldn't get my CCW. In PA it cost me $35 and they did an instant back ground check. I arrived at the court house and 12mins later I was back in my car with my .40 on my hip and my LTCF in my wallet. Many of my co-workers think that I am crazy for not moving back, but the cost of living and housing is so much cheaper. I used to have a 1.5 hour comute one way, due to traffic. For a week that adds up to 15 hours of commuting. I now have only 7 hours of commuting. The other kicker is I have 13 acres and a 3600 square ft house for the same price as my appartment in Annapolis was in 1990. Less than $700 a month! The sad part is, I can ony have my handgun in the trunk because I am traveling between states. If I was a MD resident I would have to be traveling to the range. But at least I have it. I made the change I wouldn't look back. I always wanted to stay in Annapolis and retire, but with the prices of housing and the crazy gun laws, I'm more than happy with the move. P.S. you won't have to unarm to go into a Walmart or a bar in PA. I hope you have a great time, you deserve a break!

[johnatw]

A quick question regarding getting caught with a handgun in MD. Ray says you can be convicted of a felony if caught. If you went to trial, had a lawyer, and asked for a jury of peers wouldn't your chance of getting off or at least getting of light be greater? Assuming the jury had some sensible people on it.

[aray]

I hear those of you who say carry anyway just don't get caught. However I'm reminded of a real-life story that Massad Ayoob told in one of his books ("The Handbook of Concealed Carry" I think). I'm reciting this from memory because I don't have the book in front of me right now but it went pretty much like this:

Good guy goes into a Wal-Mart to get something. (As I recall he was traveling on vacation and didn't really know the area or the local laws.) Crazy big beefy bad guy wonks out and suddenly starts wailing away on some random frail grandma sort next to our hero. Since GG's a licensed CCW holder, he whips out his concealed handgun and shoots BG, ending the attack and saving the life of said damsel in distress.

Local prosecutor turns out to be anti-gun, and starts to bring charges against GG - not for carrying or use of the gun, that was all legal, but because the Wal-Marts in the area sold wine. In that state you couldn't enter an establishment that sold liquor even if you weren't drinking or buying.

Only thing that saved the guy was that that particular Wal-Mart was the only one in the area that didn't sell alcohol. So the charges had to be dropped. Close call, but had it been any other Wal-Mart at random in the area, the GG would have been toast.



I worked as a bail enforcement agent in MD for a year and I still couldn't get my CCW. In PA it cost me $35 and they did an instant back ground check. I arrived at the court house and 12mins later I was back in my car with my .40 on my hip and my LTCF in my wallet.

And that pretty much sums up the difference between Maryland and sane states.

Gosh, I wish things were different. And trust me there are a whole bunch of people that are working hard to change the laws here in this state. We're not sitting on our duffs and just whining about the status quo. But unfortunately I think Maryland sits too close to the Federal DC pork trough, and that attracts a certain kind of mind set. Trust me, we've got as many loons as California or Massachusetts or New York or Chicago. Maryland just doesn't get as much publicity.

[Bawanna]

Concealed Weapon Reciprocity (http://www.atg.wa.gov/ConcealedWeapons/Reciprocity.aspx)

Just got an email with the above link. I was pretty happy to see that most places I'd possibly go to are covered. Course have to travel thru a few states not on the list but that matters little to me.
Was suprised to see my home state of Missouri on the list, that's great. My daughter is engaged to a fella who's family is from N Carolina so I can go there if I have too. Got a buddy in Arkansas. Can visit Wynn, no stops to see Jocko but I don't think he likes me much anyhow, never did, never will.
In the email it stated that Utah actually reciprocates with like 36 other states. Good for Utah.
Always wanted to visit the nations capital along with all the historical sites, Gettysburg, etc etc etc, but most likely won't happen. If I went I'd bring a rifle.

[Bawanna]

I hear those of you who say carry anyway just don't get caught. However I'm reminded of a real-life story that Massad Ayoob told in one of his books ("The Handbook of Concealed Carry" I think). I'm reciting this from memory because I don't have the book in front of me right now but it went pretty much like this:

Good guy goes into a Wal-Mart to get something. (As I recall he was traveling on vacation and didn't really know the area or the local laws.) Crazy big beefy bad guy wonks out and suddenly starts wailing away on some random frail grandma sort next to our hero. Since GG's a licensed CCW holder, he whips out his concealed handgun and shoots BG, ending the attack and saving the life of said damsel in distress.

Local prosecutor turns out to be anti-gun, and starts to bring charges against GG - not for carrying or use of the gun, that was all legal, but because the Wal-Marts in the area sold wine. In that state you couldn't enter an establishment that sold liquor even if you weren't drinking or buying.

Only thing that saved the guy was that that particular Wal-Mart was the only one in the area that didn't sell alcohol. So the charges had to be dropped. Close call, but had it been any other Wal-Mart at random in the area, the GG would have been toast.




And that pretty much sums up the difference between Maryland and sane states.

Gosh, I wish things were different. And trust me there are a whole bunch of people that are working hard to change the laws here in this state. We're not sitting on our duffs and just whining about the status quo. But unfortunately I think Maryland sits too close to the Federal DC pork trough, and that attracts a certain kind of mind set. Trust me, we've got as many loons as California or Massachusetts or New York or Chicago. Maryland just doesn't get as much publicity.

I can see it now in my cell in the federal pen. What are you in for? 30 years for carrying my Kel TEc in a place that sold wine! It's just a nightmare so I lied about the Kel Tec. Never owned one. I'm truely blessed.

[aray]

Concealed Weapon Reciprocity (http://www.atg.wa.gov/ConcealedWeapons/Reciprocity.aspx)

Just got an email with the above link. I was pretty happy to see that most places I'd possibly go to are covered. Course have to travel thru a few states not on the list but that matters little to me.
Was suprised to see my home state of Missouri on the list, that's great. My daughter is engaged to a fella who's family is from N Carolina so I can go there if I have too. Got a buddy in Arkansas. Can visit Wynn, no stops to see Jocko but I don't think he likes me much anyhow, never did, never will.
In the email it stated that Utah actually reciprocates with like 36 other states. Good for Utah.
Always wanted to visit the nations capital along with all the historical sites, Gettysburg, etc etc etc, but most likely won't happen. If I went I'd bring a rifle.

Bawanna,

I count 11 states on that list including your home state of Washington.

FYI the 36 state number for Utah is for Utah residents. For non-resident Utah CCW permits it's something like 29 as I recall.

You might also consider picking up a non-resident Florida permit. 31 states recognize that permit, specifically: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming. The reciprocity list is 35 states if you are a Florida resident. Their web site is: Concealed Carry Reciprocity - Division of Licensing, FDACS (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html)

Swing by Gettysburg on your trip & I'll drive up and bring my Gettysburg rifle with me to show off. I can be pressed into duty as an emergency backup tour guide as well, if you need to scrape the bottom of the barrel. Used to drive through Gettysburg all the time on weekends on my way to go to Chambersburg to go skydiving. Got hitched = end of my skydiving career. :angel:

[Bawanna]

If I ever get to that neck of the woods your my man! Seeing your rifle would be one more reason to make the trip.

I do have to wonder about you fellas that jump out of perfectly good airplanes though. Sort of like bungee jumping off bridges, just never made sense to me, course maybe I got no sense so I don't have enough information to process?

[noslolo]

Here is a link with the history of CCW in Maryland. 300 years of no limits down the tubes! Check it out, you might just find a terible reason for the current laws!
Maryland Shall Issue (http://www.marylandshallissue.org/index.php?categoryid=37)