CTokarev & Helwan, a couple of odd 9s

[Pancho_Villa]

Picke up these 2 off an old guy at a gun show. He and his buddy had come in the show trying to sell them on Sat. for 2 bills each. I offered them 250 for the pair. One came back Sunday with both and he was down to 175 a gun. He apparently traded the olther old guy a .22 rifle for his Helwan Brigadeer. The other one was a Chinese NORINCO Tokarev. The Tolk was like new and the Helwan had a bit of wear. Anyway, We settled on 3 for the pair. He went to go get himself a new plastic fantastic 9 mil and I kept the old ones.

I really just wanted the Tok. It is much like a 1911 on the inside, Colt/Browning lockwork, same kinda trigger, no grip safety, and the hammer is a bit odd, but works the same. It has a half *** added on safety lever that is there to comply with import regs. This is the best on I had seen in a while, so I got both to get it. Worked great. Hardly been fired. This is the best one out of several I had over the years. The others had grips that looked more commercial and a 2 part safety lever than would usually shake loose. This one has some military=ish looking grips and the safety lever is one piece. Won't use the safety anyway,c ause the original gun did not have a safety other than lowering the hammer manually. Yeah, no decoker or hammer block. So if ya are clumsy, ya might let one go.

http://www.bersaforum.com/images/1/1/8/thumb2_58-335.jpg (http://www.bersaforum.com/images/1/1/8/58-335.jpg)

And the Helwan Brigadier. Yep, if it looks like a Beretta, that's cause it is....or was. Originally a Model 1951 Beretta, only a few branches of their military adopted it. Some exported to the Egyptians, who later took over the tooling and made it. The top half is much like the Beretta 92s, but slightly thinner and a half inch or so shorter. The same type locking lugs, but not quite as robust as the 92s. Also a single stack 8+1 and gun is SA only.Again ya gotta decock it like a man or have an AD. Safety is a cross pin that blocks the hammer, but has to be on fire to be lowere or fired. Mag realse is on the bottom left grip. Trigger pull lieaves alot to be desired. Heavy hammer spring. May be due to the need for a heavy hammer fall cause of the hard military primers used for open bolt SMGS. I had some of that ammo once and it took 3 strikes from some U.S. made 9s to set it off. Gun worked great, but the trigger was a bit rough for an SA trigger.

Here is a pic of it. Lower gun is the Helwan. Upper gun is a Taurus 92 type like the Beretta 92. You can see the similarity.

http://www.bersaforum.com/images/1/1/8/thumb2_59-338.jpg (http://www.bersaforum.com/images/1/1/8/59-338.jpg)

[muggsy]

It's nice to have something that everyone else doesn't have. Enjoy shooting them.

[diablo53]

Neat guns. My dad picked up a Tokarev style Norinco chambered in 7.62x25. Its an interesting piece.

[gb6491]

Excellent write up and photos Pancho_Villa :)
I once owned a Norinco 213 and still own a Helwan Brigadier. I pretty much concur with what you have written, especially in regards to the Helwan trigger. My 213 was an excellent shooter with ball ammo and, after a little work, hollow points. The same for the Brigadier, though it did have some peening to the frame. Once the peened area was filed down, it's not been an issue.
http://i58.tinypic.com/ih5cae.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/35a95sk.jpg

Speaking of Norinco, I really like their Olympia TT, which is a clone of the old Walther Olympia. The two I have are reliable and accurate. You can still find them in the $250-$300 price range.
http://i41.tinypic.com/alpu8h.jpg
Here's a link to a guy shooting his and his thoughts on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rfa23J26io

Regards,
Greg

[Pancho_Villa]

Muy bueno gb. What problem with peening did ya have? I had a Helwan back in the late 80s & some of the Toks. There was an abundance of them back then. The Helwan had some magazine problems and I tweaked them out. I had just got the gun at a show, like for 70 bucks.

I have heard some horror stories about the Helwans breaking the locking lugs, but I won't be shooting it much anyway. The first gun I had saved my *** the morning after I tweaked the mags. A couple of large pit bulls came up on the back porch and were in the process of gutting my wife's American Eskimo gog. I still had the Helwan loaded on the dresser, so I went out. By then, they had the dog out in the yard and it was messed up. I fired once at them and shot over them. One dog turned on me and started coming up the steps. I fired at it point blank and it turned back. I was lucky cause I was outside naked and my nads were fixin' to be dog meat as well as the rest of me. The one I shot at ran and the other one followed. i unloaded the Brig on the lead dog broadside at a full run. I checked the small dog and it was gutted. I went back inside and got my AR and some pants. Went out down the fenceline looking for them. They were from a rancho down the road. Found one by the fence. It had a hole up high behind the left shoulder and one in the ribs sideways. Apparently the other one got home. I called the precinct Justice and he said I shoulda shot hem both. He was tired of all the reports of dead cats and dogs from those dogs all over the area. The neighbors used them for breeding fighting dogs for the eillegal dog fighters in the area. I heard rrom some of those people too. I was known after that as "the killer down the road." The owners left the pits alone for long periods of time with no food or water. My S in law had her poodle killed while she and her daughter were welking down the road a few months before, so she was happy. At least they got away unharmed.

So, I can say that a Helwan saved my ***. I have no serious complaints about the guns.

[gb6491]

Muy bueno gb. What problem with peening did ya have? .....
The frame peened right at the top where it meets the barrel. It didn't look like much, but was enough that the slide hung up on it during disassembly. Used a rubber mallet to coax the slide off, then removed the upset material with a file and haven't had a recurrence.
http://i60.tinypic.com/24yyfwk.jpg

Thanks for sharing the dog story.:ohmy:

Regards,
Greg

[Pancho_Villa]

I'll be watching for that problem. Probably won't shoot it enought to ever do that. It's mostly for looking at. Got the Taurus 92 toshoot anyway.

The Tok actually had a very slight problem and the old guy told me about it. He said he could not rack the gun unless the hammer was cocked first. He kept it loaded with a round in the chamber cause he was too old to rack it quick. It was obvious that there was a sharp corner at the bottom back end of the slide where it made contact with the hammer. It was really hard to rack. Knocked the corner off with a file and the gun worked just fine. Didn't even have to take the slide off. Old school guns and old school tricks.

Thought about getting into the Helwan and clipping a hammer spring or 2 off the end. But guess it really isn't worth the effort.