Fear tastes like brass

[Dietrich]

This was my first and only incident that scared me enough to reach for a gun. I was at a traffic light waiting for it to change. There were cars in front of,behind and beside me.I was boxed in. I noticed a large,blonde haired young man walking up to the cars in front of me and trying to open their passenger side doors. All this time he was yelling something about needing a ride to a nearby town.When he approached my vehicle I pulled my .357 out of the center console and held it at the ready. He didn`t know that I was armed. He yanked on the door handle and I told him to go away and leave me alone. He then started to beat on the window. I decided then and there if he broke that window and tried to get in the truck with me I was going to shoot him. Thank God the light changed and we sped off. I drove to a nearby parking lot and called 911. The operator said that they had been swamped with calls about him and that units were on the way. When I hung up I started to shake badly and that`s when I noticed the taste of fear.I later learned that the guy was arrested for disorderly conduct,drug possession and resisting arrest.I hope I don`t ever find myself in a situation like that again.Your world can change in an instant by just being in the wrong place at any given time.Like waitng for the light to change.

[jimmer]

Was this large blond guy just desperate, had no other means of transportation, trying to get a ride to the hospital because his mother was dying, Or had bad intentions, who knows. At the point he was beating on the glass I would have been on the ready also, to me not life threatening to draw my weapon. No A.O.J. Thank god the light changed.

[Dietrich]

Was this large blond guy just desperate, had no other means of transportation, trying to get a ride to the hospital because his mother was dying, Or had bad intentions, who knows. At the point he was beating on the glass I would have been on the ready also, to me not life threatening to draw my weapon. No A.O.J. Thank god the light changed.
According to a LEO I talked to a few days later,the guy was so stoned from crack that when he finally sobered up he had no recollection of any of it.It wasn`t his first run-in with the law.Priors for intent to sell ,shoplifting and assault.Another young life going to waste because of substance abuse.I hope he gets help before something terrible happens to him or to someone else.

[jimmer]

According to a LEO I talked to a few days later,the guy was so stoned from crack that when he finally sobered up he had no recollection of any of it.It wasn`t his first run-in with the law.Priors for intent to sell ,shoplifting and assault.Another young life going to waste because of substance abuse.I hope he gets help before something terrible happens to him or to someone else.

I hope so to.

[ltxi]

nhi, imo....sorry, I'm jaded...for reason

[Dietrich]

nhi, imo....sorry, I'm jaded...for reason

You see so many people screwed up on different things,it`s easy to get jaded. I`ve run this event over and over in my mind. If he had broken the window and tried to get in the truck with me.would I have been justified in shooting? In N.C. you have a duty to retreat unless you are in your home.I was strapped in by a seatbelt and would have had to fight off an assault basically with one arm. I wonder.Prosecuters are great Monday morning quaterbacks and they weren`t there to see the maniacal look on this scumbags face.His eyes were soulless.It was like looking into the face of the devil himself. Do you think I would have been justified in shooting? He was in his mid twenties.Iam in my late fifties if that matters.

[ltxi]

You see so many people screwed up on different things,it`s easy to get jaded. I`ve run this event over and over in my mind. If he had broken the window and tried to get in the truck with me.would I have been justified in shooting? In N.C. you have a duty to retreat unless you are in your home.I was strapped in by a seatbelt and would have had to fight off an assault basically with one arm. I wonder.Prosecuters are great Monday morning quaterbacks and they weren`t there to see the maniacal look on this scumbags face.His eyes were soulless.It was like looking into the face of the devil himself. Do you think I would have been justified in shooting? He was in his mid twenties.Iam in my late fifties if that matters.

Do I think you would have been justified?.....given what you've written and with him entering your car, absolutely! I certainly would have, without hesitation at that point. Does the law and do the courts in your state agree with me?.....that I can't say. Unfortunately, justice and the law are too often not the same thing.

[500KV]

Do I think you would have been justified?.....given what you've written and with him entering your car, absolutely! I certainly would have, without hesitation at that point. Does the law and do the courts in your state agree with me?.....that I can't say. Unfortunately, justice and the law are too often not the same thing.


The only thing that concerns me more than having to defend myself/family in a self defense situation is having to deal with the aftermath of such an incident. ie: Courts, prosecutors, defenders, criminal and civil proceedings and most of all; my own reflections. What could I have done differently?

If you could do what's necessary and proper and just walk away it would be great.

Glad your situation didn't escalate Dietrich.

[ltxi]

The only thing that concerns me more than having to defend myself/family in a self defense situation is having to deal with the aftermath of such an incident. ie: Courts, prosecutors, defenders, criminal and civil proceedings and most of all; my own reflections. What could I have done differently?

If you could do what's necessary and proper and just walk away it would be great.

Glad your situation didn't escalate Dietrich.

Fully, fully agree, except for semantics.....at this point in my life defending self and family is my primary concern and only justification for carrying a deadly weapon.

I have a carefully thought through line....cross it, you die....no emotional or any other second guessing. It's simple professional 101...flinch in the clutch and you lose. The moment of decision isn't when you should be thinking about adverse consequences, legal or otherwise. Those considerations and how they will weigh on your actions should have been carefully studied and factored in beforehand.

Semi-sorry for the lecture. Didn't understand your last comment, though. About escalating Dietrich?

[ltxi]

.....btw is an apt description.

[500KV]

All valid points ltxi.
I simply meant that it was good that he didn't have to shoot the guy.

I too have fully weighed the options vs. consequences scenarios and have every intention of defending myself/family should the need arise. Otherwise I wouldn't be packin' this thing around.

[ltxi]

Oh, I certainly agree with that....I'm very glad for him that he didn't have to shoot the guy!

[Bawanna]

Sadly it's this same legal mine field that I believe gets alot of police officers killed. Trying to make split second decisions and having the legal consequences running around in the back of their minds. Everything from race issues, to size, gender you name it. Someone mentioned you lag you lose and if your thinking of the consequences (which we all have to regardless) your already in a big disadvantage with the bad guy.
I just avoid places where I think trouble might lurk and hope for the best. Hope if the time ever comes I'll make the right choice, so far so good.:confused:

[Raoul]

Sadly it's this same legal mine field that I believe gets alot of police officers killed. Trying to make split second decisions and having the legal consequences running around in the back of their minds. Everything from race issues, to size, gender you name it. Someone mentioned you lag you lose and if your thinking of the consequences (which we all have to regardless) your already in a big disadvantage with the bad guy.
I just avoid places where I think trouble might lurk and hope for the best. Hope if the time ever comes I'll make the right choice, so far so good.:confused:

The sad thing these days is that you just never know where those bad places might be. That's why we carry.

[medezyner]

All the considerations screaming through your brain at light-speed that will be viewed under a microscope and all the input that you’re trying to digest while your system is getting blasted adrenaline…it’s a wonder any LE or armed citizen can make the kind of critical decisions that save lives. But thankfully, they do and we do. BG’s and bad places are all around us, be aware & be safe.

[ripley16]

Fear tastes like brass

That's one sensation that has not manifested itself in the several "events" I've experienced. Many other sensory changes, but not that one.

Some of things I've learned from my trials by fire are;

* Danger can come upon you in an instant. You may not see it until it hits you. Situational awareness is fine but some bad guys practice being sneaky and use surprise to gain the advantage.

* You cannot predict how you will react to danger. You may be cool and calm or you may go to pieces.

* Effects on your mental health may manifest at a later date. Getting the shakes later is more the norm than not.

* It isn't easy to be a good witness.

* Having a gun pointed at you makes you focus, makes you think clearly. Your other problems fade away.

* Thankfully, most people never experience real fear...life threatening fear that changes your metabolism. It's hard to believe that fear can be so overpowering, until you experience it.

[Bawanna]

The sad thing these days is that you just never know where those bad places might be. That's why we carry.

The really sad thing is that alot of those bad places are places where concealed carry isn't allowed. I have no problem not allowing guns in bars, I don't go to bars. Blockbuster video rentals years ago put up a sign "No Guns". No problem. I didn't go there. Apparently many others didn't either. Wasn't long and that sign went away. My biggest concern is schools. I dont agree with gun free zones. Like the bad guys don't know that schools are full of unarmed sheep.
To me the laws just have to pass the stupid test, if they fail, then after careful consideration they are placed in the ignore category. Most laws in that category are not effectively enforced because officers agree that they are stupid laws.
That's why we carry always and don't go places we can't. I don't fly anymore either, plane loads of sheep. Sad.

[Vinikahr]

Sadly it's this same legal mine field that I believe gets alot of police officers killed. Trying to make split second decisions and having the legal consequences running around in the back of their minds. Everything from race issues, to size, gender you name it. Someone mentioned you lag you lose and if your thinking of the consequences (which we all have to regardless) your already in a big disadvantage with the bad guy.
I just avoid places where I think trouble might lurk and hope for the best. Hope if the time ever comes I'll make the right choice, so far so good.:confused:

Someone indicated in their signature line that he rather be judge by twelve (jurors) than six (bullets).:59:

[Vinikahr]

The sad thing these days is that you just never know where those bad places might be. That's why we carry.
Exactly, that is the reason better have and don't need it than need and don't have it. Think about funny things happen when you do not have your weapon with you. Never again, I carry 24/7.:59:

[recoilguy]

Wow that is a crazy story. I think I would have reacted and come to the exact same conclusion you did. Thank God the light did change.

When I read Armed Citezen atricle in the Rifleman mag I often wonder the same thing. I am glad I made it through another day without tasting brass.

RCG

[noslolo]

First I have to say that I'm glad that you are safe and that he was picked up. Not that I like to see people arrested but he was out of control. Next I have to say Sorry to get off topic, but what is going to happen to our fine soldiers when we start hold them to the same standards. I know how hard it is for LEO's could it get any harder for our armed forces? Rant off.

[jstringer]

Glad you posted this. Gives people time to ponder what if.

My thoughts are if he broke the glass, you grab the keys and get out with the gun in hand. He then cannot take the car. If he comes at you you retreat. Now if he comes at you with weapon in hand the whole situation just ratcheted up MANY notches and you might have to fire on him.

The absolute last resort is to shoot someone.

You said you had made up your mind to shoot if he broke the glass, right?
Would'nt having to get the broken glass fixed been been a lot less trouble than going through the legal mess as well as having a death on your conscious?

But yep, if it comes to his life or yours the choice is clear, but as long as other options exist you must take those options.

Thanks again.

[ltxi]

...... but as long as other options exist you must take those options.


I disagree and always have. Sometimes terminally bad behavior just deserves potentially fatal consequences. And if you screw around juggling too many what/but/if options under stress and sudden immediate threat, it can cost you dearly. I do not accept "give in at all cost" and have clearly defined personal limits. Fortunately, I live in a state with a strong castle doctrine that is pretty much aligned with my own philosophy.

[jstringer]

No doubt there's little time to consider all the options.
I think my first reaction to a guy beating on my vehicle window raising hell would be to show him I was armed. Right or wrong I don't know but probably first reaction before reading this poster's story.

There's way to many scenarios that could justify someone hitting a car window and yelling. Breaking a window is another thing. Beating on a weapon with weapon in hand is another huge thing.

It's easy to say what a person might do. Doing it when the time comes is another thing altogether.

[swampman]

fear may taste like brass,but it can smell like sh*t:eek:-------I was just trying to make my 100th post----- where is wyntrout with his report on his pm45 :typing:

[unclenunzie]

No one can really say what they'd do in any particular situation until it happens, but training and awareness will count for a lot. From the safety of my keyboard I can venture a calmly thought out possible reaction to what the OP experienced up to the moment of truth. Breaking glass by itself with no weapon would most definitely draw the weapon into a firing position. If followed by opening the door with any weapon, or if door is still closed but a firearm is in the guys hand, I'd have to shoot. If there's no weapon I'm not sure what I'd do, it'd take someone really out of their mind to break a window, see a gun pointed at them and still force their way into someone's car. I hope I never have to face an insane threat like that. In this case I'd be very reluctant to shoot, not just because of the legal and civil damage to my life but because a broken window without obvious threat of death or serious bodily harm does not warrant taking a life.

just my thoughts about the OP's very bad situation and am glad there was no need for blood.

[jstringer]

Very true nunzie.

We can bet our a**es that if an alternative exists to shooting someone that didn't have to be shot the DA and the family's lawyers will be pointing that out to us in many unpleasant ways..............

I'd add a good alternative against attacks without weapons would be keeping a fresh pepper spray canister handy.

[Dietrich]

Glad you posted this. Gives people time to ponder what if.

My thoughts are if he broke the glass, you grab the keys and get out with the gun in hand. He then cannot take the car. If he comes at you you retreat. Now if he comes at you with weapon in hand the whole situation just ratcheted up MANY notches and you might have to fire on him.

The absolute last resort is to shoot someone.

You said you had made up your mind to shoot if he broke the glass, right?
Would'nt having to get the broken glass fixed been been a lot less trouble than going through the legal mess as well as having a death on your conscious?

But yep, if it comes to his life or yours the choice is clear, but as long as other options exist you must take those options.

Thanks again.
I`m surprised to see this post resurface after so much time.However,I want to clarify a point.My decision to shoot would have had nothing to do with a little broken glass.It would have had everything to do about my ass being under attack from a madman.If he had broken that window I would have blown his brains out.I had much rather be in prison for killing someone than have that person in prison for killing me.I hope this clears up any gray area concerning my thinking or intent.

[jstringer]

Hey I'm a new guy here. Can'tya tell? Just saw your post.

I get you. I get it. Bad scene. Bad taste in the mouth.

Glad that light changed because if he had broke that glass making you fear for your life and you had blown him away the S would have HTF for you in a million ways.

Now that you have had the chance to look back over every detail of that day is there anything you can tell us to help us handle a situation like that?

Just trying to learn from someone that had that experience.

I wonder too what some self defense pros would have to say about it.
Had a chance to talk to any?

[Dietrich]

The aftermath would have been iffy at best.Monday morning quaterbacking would have abounded.But if I were in the same situation,I would make the same decision.The guy was out of his freakin` mind and I`m not going to sit on my ass and let myself get hurt by some wacked out druggie.I`m a peaceful,easy going man by nature.I`ll go around the block to avoid a fight,but I`m like most other creatures too.When cornered,I`ll do whatever is neccesary for self preservation.These are my last words on the subject.

[ltxi]

.....I wonder too what some self defense pros would have to say about it.....


Which just may be me and I've already had my say on this thread at least twice. Dietrich was right...this is an old thread..and he's a far more peaceful and forgiving person that I am, have been, or ever will be.

[a.squibload]

Good threads improve with age!

I had a guy mad at me one day, back when I was young and stupid. He was
picking on someone in traffic, out of his car threatening them, and didn't like me
stopping to watch (guess I'm a real busybody). Well, it took the heat off them
and they left, but to my surprise he crossed the street to attack me. I never
thought of it, he appeared to be calmed but was just being sneaky. I saw him
wind up to punch me as I sat in my car. I'm really not that quick-thinking but
somehow I slipped the clutch a bit and he hit my door post. Situation defused,
he left, I left.
Guess I got lucky, it was dumb to sit there and watch him cross the street so
I could give him my 2¢ worth, he coulda shot me or something. Is it cold in
here? Now I'm shaking a bit.