Has anyone switched over from 9mm to 40?

[queevil]

The title says it all. I'm sure we've all read about the FBI making the switch and how the increased recoil and muzzle blast of the .40 is no longer worth it with the increase in bullet technology. I'm thinking of selling my K40 Covert and getting a K9. As much as I like the Covert, I really like a grip that I can get all of my fingers on. I used to have a K40 non Covert and it seemed a bit more controllable. That small issue combined with that fact that I could get an extra round of capacity with the K9 and even more control makes me think about the 9mm very seriously. I've been shooting. 40 for well over a decade.
Make no mistake, the Covert is an excellent well made weapon. It's ridiculously accurate. It isn't painful or uncomfortable to shoot, but sometimes I think it's more of a handful than it needs to be.

So, has anyone made the switch? If so, are you glad that you did?

[queevil]

Oh, and although it may well turn into one, this isn't meant to be a caliber debate.

[b4uqzme]

I switched from 9mm to .40sw back during the last ammo pinch. .40sw was available at reasonable prices when 9mm could not be found. My decision had nothing to do with ballistics. They are both good rounds IMHO. Since then I've added .45acp and .380 to my semi-auto collection. You never know what the future holds.

[WMac19]

I carry my PM40 just as often as my PM9. Love both guns and respect both rounds. I'm not very likely to choose between them. PM45 is on the way, my first .45, maybe it'll cause me to reevaluate down the road, can't be sure.

[DanTana]

I bought .40 for the same reason as b4uqzme. I couldn't find 9mm and when I did it was in limited quantities, .40 was in stock in abundance then and so it was an easy decision. I don't regret it, although 9mm is a little softer to shoot, but I find .40 very accurate and a very powerful round as well. I have a CM9 I bought when ammo was getting back in stock, I seem to feel the recoil a little more in the lighter pistol (of course) than when I shoot my .40 Sig P229, or even my M&P Pro .40. The only minor drawback with .40 vs 9mm is cost. You do pay a little extra for the more powerful cartridge.

[Pointblank]

I like and use both, as well as .45 acp, 38 Special, 357 Magnum and even 32 acp (Keltec P32) as a BUG.

[JohnR]

I never fell for the .40 siren song in the first place. I didn't see any reason to step down from .45 :D

[berettabone]

I shoot 9mm, .40, and ,45............................................... .40 is still my favorite.................I guess I don't notice all of that "excessive" recoil.................

[queevil]

All valid points. Yes, I was glad to be a .40 shooter during the ammo shortage. 9mm was up to $50/for UMC or WWB. I was able to get .40 for less than half of that.

To me, .40 recoil isn't bad, especially in a pistol like a Glock 22 or 23 or a full size XD. I shoot the Covert well.

Thanks for all of your replies so far.

[TheTman]

I picked up a .40 from a friends estate. A very nice Beretta Cougar .40. Very reliable and accurate. It has about a 3 3/4 inch barrel, about the same as the CW40. Holds 10+1 or 11+1. I did get a couple mags that were 12+1, but not real confident in them with the full 12. One instructor told the class that on double stack mags, it's best to leave one shy of full capacity for better feeding and reliablity. On single stacks fill em up full. Haven't had any problems filling my double stacks full, except for the 12 round Beretta .40 are awfully tight with 12.
I thought I might as well have a couple .40's so I bought the CW40 as my CC weapon. You can tell it's loaded a bit hotter than your standard 9mm. I put the ported barrel in the CW40 to help with the muzzle flip, it does some good. Not a whole lot, but some. Either cartridge is fine with me, but I prefer the .45, or 44 special in a revolver.

Anyone else ever been told that info about loading double stacks 1 shy of full capacity? Or not topping off the mag after a round is chambered?

[b4uqzme]

...Anyone else ever been told that info about loading double stacks 1 shy of full capacity? Or not topping off the mag after a round is chambered?

Yes, I've heard that also and it certainly makes sense...at least to try if you experience feeding problems. It hasn't been necessary for anything I've owned...yet. First time I heard it the operator recommended only loading 29 in your 30 round AR mags.

[Redstate]

I got rid of my .40's and now only have 9mm and .45 for semi auto center fire pistols (except my .380 Kel Tec P3At).

[wyntrout]

I really went from .45 to .40 with my P40... my first .40. I had always heard that the recoil was too fierce. When my retiring LEO younger brother visited us I took him to the range and I shot one magazine through his compact XD40 of some kind... not such a big deal with recoil.

I went from the PM9 to the PM45 to the Mag-na-ported P40 that I bought used here on the Market Place. It's my main carry and has an XS Big Dot front night sight and rear two-dot Trijicon NS. They aren't matched for point of aim, but I like them. I was trying to get the Trijicon HD NS effect.

I carry the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 180-gr rounds for SD and also have the 180-gr Bonded Remington Golden Sabers as well.

I prefer the P-sized Kahrs now for carry... after I changed the magazine base plates to the all-steel ones... black, of course... and added O-rings to stop the pinches!

Wynn :)

[ltxi]

I don't mind the recoil, per se, of the .40. The sharp, high peak pressure curve of it just makes it unacceptably hard for me to control combat shooting in small, lightweight guns. I converted my G27 to 9mm for that reason. My G23, tho, I shoot quite well.

Raised on 38/357 and 45 ACP, my preference in centerfire handgun cartridges these these days is for 38/357 in revolvers and 9mm and 45 in semi-auto pistols.

[muggsy]

I heard that the FBI recently switched back to allow their agents to carry the 9mm. Too, many of their female agents couldn't handle the recoil of the .40 cal and couldn't qualify with them because of that. I think that anyone should be able to shoot anything they want to shoot, but shoot, that's too easy. :)

[Alfonse]

I don't switch, I just seem to add to the number and types of ammunition I stock. I don't see any reason to have to stick with just one, or ten, or...

[TheTman]

The police dept. in the City down the interstate switched back to 9mm from .40. They said practice range scores went up with the 9mm. I think Glock and S&W gave them a great deal on new pistols. The officers could choose the Glock 17, or M&P 9. 60% went M&P and the rest went Glock. I think the official reasons given were better control of the pistol for follow up shots, better control for female officers, and cheaper ammo costs. I'm not sure what the Sheriff's dept. or the Highway Patrol uses.

[Big Sexy]

I don't find .40 or .45 recoil objectionable at all. I think handgun size, weight, bore axis height above grip, grip angle and width, overall design, and ergos all have have WAAAAAYYYY more influence on felt recoil than chambering. My Micro Desert Eagle .380 is more unpleasant to shoot BY FAR than any of my .45s, .40s, and 9mms ever thought about being, due to its tiny size. I love shooting my MK40, for example. Despite its subcompact, pocket size, it has a nice heft and balance due to the steel frame that makes it very comfortable to shoot for me. The thicker wood grips I have on mine likely helps in that regard too.

At one time, .45 and .40 offered some real advantages over the 9mm, but with advancements in today's bullet technologies, the data seems to suggest there really is no statistical advantage to one of the main semi-auto pistol calibers vs. another, and as has always been the case, shot placement is the most important factor in effectiveness. Even though I'm not planning to ever get rid of my .45s and .40s, I've pretty much completely switched over to 9mm for concealed carry due to better size efficiency and increased mag capacity when comparing similar sized guns.

[oio]

I never switched; I still use 9mm, .40, .357sig, 10mm, and .45.
(Unfortunately, there's no K357 or K10, but Underwood ammo makes up for it)

[RonW]

I would agree with most of the comments here. I didn't really "switch" from 9mm to .40 rather i did it to diversify my stock of ammo & pistol selection. Kinda like how a golfer uses a different club for a specific situation, so do I use my carry pistols depending on weather, where I am going, how I'm dressed etc. I use .380, 9mm & .40 & maybe .45 in the near future.

[TheTman]

I switched from .40 to CM45 for EDC.

[hardluk1]

I like my cm9 and it served as a fine work pistol riding in my pocket daily. Now it only see's back up duty or when stepping out of the house to mow or weed eat. Since retiring I prefer to carry a 40sw full time and carried a s&w pistol for a couple years and for the last 6 or so years my tp40 . I like that pistol. easy to carry thin and light but I'm aving some hand strength problems after surgery and found a larger heavier wider pistol is more comfortable and controllable of me now and picked a sig p320 for carry . Bonus is 15 rounds of high energy and velocity with a 4" barrel from underwoods 155gr load that few185gr or 200+P 45 ammo can come close to matching from a 5" barrel .

[muggsy]

I'd rather fight than switch. If any of you can remember who made that commercial you're older than dirt. :)

[Redstate]

Was it the Lucky Strike commercial? Was it Chuck Connor?

[OldFatGuy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_Tareyton_smokers_would_rather_fight_than_switch !

[Redstate]

I was off on that one. :o

[greg_r]

I switched to 40 during the ammo crunch when that's all that could be found. I actuallytually like the round, but find it makes for sore wrists, not because of recoil so much, but because it twists. Hard on the arthritis!

My preference is the 45acp and 38 special.

[Barth]

I've never owned a gun factory chambered in 9mm.
Until I ordered one a few days ago (HK P30SK V1 LE) - LOL!
I own ~15 handguns in a variety of calibers.
Lots run 40 S&W and the two ammo shortages have a lot to do with that.

I actually prefer 357 Sig to 9mm or 40 S&W.
But ammo availability and price keep me from shooting it as much as I'd like.

As for my absolute favorite semi-auto caliber?
45 ACP - Final Answer.

Barth

[CJB]

Having built a 10mm out of a Colt .38 Super Automatic, well before Colt came out with their Delta Elite.... I have a personal disregard for the 40S&W (short and wimpy).

If you're gonna make a switch, why not go to a nice manly cartridge like the .45 Auto?

Real men shoot .45's.

[berettabone]

I tried to pair down to one caliber........................................but now, it's .45, .40, 38 special, .357, and 9mm...................where did I go wrong?

[Streetkahr]

I heard that the FBI recently switched back to allow their agents to carry the 9mm. Too, many of their female agents couldn't handle the recoil of the .40 cal and couldn't qualify with them because of that. I think that anyone should be able to shoot anything they want to shoot, but shoot, that's too easy. :)

I read the FBI report 3 times. It looks like the main reason is excessive wear in .40 pistols combined with the fact that new ammo technology since 1986 has made top 9mm loads as effective as .40. The FBI reported that cannot tell the difference in wound channel from a 124 g +P 9mm Gold Dot, a 180 g .40, and a .45 JHP. The bullet has to be recovered for it to be known what was fired. When you factor in accelerated pistol wear, similar performance between top calibers, and the fact that most people shoot the 9mm faster and more accurately, the migration back was logical. Top tactical trainers have been reporting the switch back to 9mm for some time. Trainers who focus on surviving The Hole have been advocating 9mm over the .40 due to the focus on shooting at very high speed at close range. The main reason that the FBI and LE are switching back to 9mm is that the 9mm is now as effective as any other caliber with good loads (especially the 124g Gold Dot +P, the Barnes bullet loads, and the Federal HST)and does not wear pistols out like the .40, and almost all LEO's shoot 9mm better. It really did not have anything to do with female agents as a major reason, although it was mentioned. There may be some who would jump all over me for posting this, but read the FBI report first. It is very clear, and it leaves no ***** to argue with that I could see. Pay special attention to the discussion of autopsy results in the report. From what I could gather, the .40 caliber advantage is based on 1980's ammo technology, but that ammo technology circa 2015 has now rendered the 9mm just as effective and faster to shoot. Read that as four attackers at 6 feet. It is not difficult to shoot on the move and get them all with a 9mm if you practice a lot, but it is also not difficult to get three with a .40 and have the 4th one get you. At 6 feet, a faction of a second is life and death. Before jumping all over me, please study the FBI report and read the latest conclusions from CQB trainers focused on surviving The Hole (6 feet or less). New ammo technology has now rendered the 9mm favored with the right loads.

I will say, though, that there is not a damn thing wrong with the .40 for those that shoot it fast and accurate and practice a lot. There is also something to be said for the fact that good .40 loads could be had during during the last ammo shortage but good 9mm loads were very very scarce, as well as .38 +p. Although not as easily obtainable as the .40, there were still some decent .45 Auto loads obtainable in my area. I do think that the best .45 loads may carry an edge over the 9mm. Although not verifiable from autopsies, in the old days there was a belief due to after action reports that slower rounds that killed by momentum like the .44 Special and .45 Auto did not numb and caused more pain causing an opponent to cease an attack faster. There may be something to that, and I do think it would be a mistake to give up what we have learned from the past. I also remember in the old days when .45 hardball was the only .45 round that you could buy, the ribcage was a frequent target because it would cause secondary bone fragment projectiles. I think there is still something to be said for older slower heavy rounds, although they tended to overpenetrate.

[berettabone]

It's good to hear that there is excessive wear in the FBI's .40 pistols...............................it must mean that they are practicing, .........a lot. You can have all of the stats that you want. For 99% of the real world, it doesn't mean a thing to them. IMHO, fit, finish, practice and function, and owner, trump caliber every time. There were a couple of idiots up in this neck, that thought they would rob an Aldi grocery store. A guy in line had a Steyr 9mm, and used it on the perpetrators from about 15 ft. away. Managed to shoot one in the side of the head, out of a couple shots, and got the other one once, by the door, then he ran out. Fortunately, or unfortunately, however you look at it, they both survived. If someone wouldn't have kicked the shotgun the one guy had, away, when he fell, he was still capable of using it. Point being, there should have been at least one deceased, and one wounded badly, no matter the caliber, at that distance. I think he got lucky. I have a feeling though, and it's just my feeling, that if 38 special, or .357, or .40, or .44 mag, or .45 or larger would have been used, you'd have 2 deceased fools. Yes, I realize that todays ammo is much more refined than in years past, and I know that it's not a good feeling to be shot with anything, but, once again, without starting the caliber war, bigger holes are better. That will never change. Even a 9mm to the side of someone's head, doesn't guarantee it will eliminate the problem. Now, if that same shot would have been with a larger caliber, I think the outcome would/could have been different. A 9mm or smaller, in this particular persons hands, didn't/couldn't/wouldn't do the job. Something larger may have.

[Streetkahr]

I'd rather fight than switch. If any of you can remember who made that commercial you're older than dirt. :)

I'm older than dirt! If my memory is till functional, which is in question, I think it was for Tarrington cigarettes and aired at about the same time as the Camel commercial, "I'd walk a mile for a Camel".

[Streetkahr]

It's good to hear that there is excessive wear in the FBI's .40 pistols...............................it must mean that they are practicing, .........a lot. You can have all of the stats that you want. For 99% of the real world, it doesn't mean a thing to them. IMHO, fit, finish, practice and function, and owner, trump caliber every time. There were a couple of idiots up in this neck, that thought they would rob an Aldi grocery store. A guy in line had a Steyr 9mm, and used it on the perpetrators from about 15 ft. away. Managed to shoot one in the side of the head, out of a couple shots, and got the other one once, by the door, then he ran out. Fortunately, or unfortunately, however you look at it, they both survived. If someone wouldn't have kicked the shotgun the one guy had, away, when he fell, he was still capable of using it. Point being, there should have been at least one deceased, and one wounded badly, no matter the caliber, at that distance. I think he got lucky. I have a feeling though, and it's just my feeling, that if 38 special, or .357, or .40, or .44 mag, or .45 or larger would have been used, you'd have 2 deceased fools. Yes, I realize that todays ammo is much more refined than in years past, and I know that it's not a good feeling to be shot with anything, but, once again, without starting the caliber war, bigger holes are better. That will never change. Even a 9mm to the side of someone's head, doesn't guarantee it will eliminate the problem. Now, if that same shot would have been with a larger caliber, I think the outcome would/could have been different. A 9mm or smaller, in this particular persons hands, didn't/couldn't/wouldn't do the job. Something larger may have.

The 9mm is very dependent on the load used rather than just caliber. LE reports are indicated that some of the top 9mm loads are more effective than some .40 and .45 loads. Where the perps hit with 115 FMJ grain range ammo? It is all dependent on the load rather than the caliber. Many LE agencies like the Speer Gold Dot 124 g +P, and autopsies cannot tell the difference between it and a 180 g .40 or 230 g JHP unless they can recover the bullet because a good JHP will expand making the original diameter not relevant. That is what has changed in the last 30 years. It is a stone cold killer round, as well as the Federal HST in 124 g standard and +P, and the Corbon 115 g +P DPX using the Barnes bullet. Had those rounds been used, there would have been two dead on the scene perps. With the 9mm it is vital that a good load is used because there are still rounds for sale based on 30 - 40 year old ammo technology. If good loads are chosen, it is just as effective as the .40 or .45 per LE reports and autopsies cannot tell between the wound channels of 9mm, .40, or .45. After expansion, the holes are the same size. A plus for the 9mm is that they are still faster to shoot, and the range ammo for practice is cheaper than other calibers. Within reason, it is not the caliber that determines results, it is the load used. Explode off the X and shoot them to the ground.

[CJB]

You went wrong right after .45!!!!

[Manzanita]

I can think of 32 people in 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting) who would say that 9mm is plenty deadly. Haven't run into anybody yet who'd be willing to run downrange and catch so much as a 22lr...

[Streetkahr]

I picked up a .40 from a friends estate. A very nice Beretta Cougar .40. Very reliable and accurate. It has about a 3 3/4 inch barrel, about the same as the CW40. Holds 10+1 or 11+1. I did get a couple mags that were 12+1, but not real confident in them with the full 12. One instructor told the class that on double stack mags, it's best to leave one shy of full capacity for better feeding and reliablity. On single stacks fill em up full. Haven't had any problems filling my double stacks full, except for the 12 round Beretta .40 are awfully tight with 12.
I thought I might as well have a couple .40's so I bought the CW40 as my CC weapon. You can tell it's loaded a bit hotter than your standard 9mm. I put the ported barrel in the CW40 to help with the muzzle flip, it does some good. Not a whole lot, but some. Either cartridge is fine with me, but I prefer the .45, or 44 special in a revolver.

Anyone else ever been told that info about loading double stacks 1 shy of full capacity? Or not topping off the mag after a round is chambered?

Yes, it is old school advice and was SOP with BPH mags. The British SAS would even punish one of their members if he was caught with the 13th round in a BHP mag.

[berettabone]

Yes, we all know that most calibers are deadly, but that's only in the right hands.............apparently in these smaller calibers, lousy shots versus good shots are critical, more so than larger calibers. It's a debate that rages on, but it's got me thinking about starting to carry a larger caliber. I carry 9mm right now, and occasionally .45. I may just split the difference and start carrying my HK .40 cal.:)

[Streetkahr]

You went wrong right after .45!!!!

LOL! One thing is for sure, and that is that no one is ever critical of a good .45 shooters choice of caliber. :yo: