Kahr Virgin

[bowmanmt]

After a bunch of driving myself crazy, I finally pulled the trigger on a CW 380. First off I am new to this site and forum. Please keep in mind I am not super versed in guns.. More of a archery kind of guy, so being that the bow is hard to conceal, I opted for this CW380. I have a few questions. When I receive the gun , should I clean and rack it 1000 times like some have said, and what practice ammo do you all recommend, and lastly (and I don't care about cost) what is the best ammo to buy for protection, I live in CT, so keep in mind winter clothes ect. I also live in Florida for a few months out of the year. Please don't get to techy on me, not at first anyways. Thanks for the patience.:Amflag2:

[OldFatGuy]

Welcome from Florida, I'm stuck here year round! Can't hide that bow and arrow, huh? That's funny! I didn't "prep" my CM40 at all, took it to the range and it's been flawless. Ammo? Cheap works for me, I wouldn't want to get hit with any of it.

[bowmanmt]

I might have answered my own question, I went over the main forum and many questions answered.

[Bawanna]

All the prep talk on the main forum is a fine and wonderful thing and can't hurt. Gets you intimately familiar with your new gun. Cleaning and lubing are very good things early on till everything marries up and gets smooth.

I didn't do the bunch of racking thing on any of mine and had no issues.

The new 380's seem to have a pretty high function and reliability rate these days.

I don't do 380 but just like any other kahr, use good name brand full power ammo for break in.
I'd steer clear of reloads and that sort of stuff especially at first while it's breaking in.

Can't comment on which carry ammo is the best, many I know just use fmj / hardball to try for a little penetration.

[Ken L]

I carry a 380 most of the time but it's not a Kahr. I run whatever is cheap for practice...Winchester white box, PMC, Remington...but my carry ammo is Hornaday Critical Defense 90gr FTX.

[Ron AZ]

bowmanmt, look at this evaluation for defensive ammo: http://shootingthebull.net/blog/2013/11/

He also has some updated tests since then which are also on his site.

For range use, whatever quality ammo you can get locally or on the internet, and that you find through experience functions well in your gun. So you don't want to buy 500 rds. of the same ammo at first. Try several kinds before finding several that you like. Due to small size of the gun and the sharp feed ramp angle, these can be ammo brand sensitive.

What does function well mean?
1. Feeds the first round out of the magazine and the slide closes all the way (called returning to battery ie. ready to fire)
2. Gun fires each and every time. No light primer strikes.
3. Every empty ejects clear and does not get caught in the returning slide (called a stovepipe)
4. Next round feeds each and every time and does not get stuck on the feed ramp (called a nosedive and causing the slide to jam)
5. Slide locks open each and every time you fire the last round in the magazine.

If you have any of these problems, it can be the ammo, the magazines or the gun. Sometimes they go away after you get through the recommended break in # of rounds … sometimes not and some tweaking is needed. If you are getting nosedives into the feed ramp only on the 7 rd. extended mags, try shooting without putting your pinky on the mag extension, i.e.. no torque on the bottom of the mag.

For my 2 P380's, HPR 100 gr. TMJ's work absolutely the best with never a malfunction. Federal American Eagle FMJ's are very good, never a problem in 6 round mags, infrequently I will get a 2nd round in the magazine nosedive into the feed ramp in 7 round mags. Another brand, Magtech, works flawlessly in my 6 rd. magazines but most of the time causes a 2nd round nosedive in 7 rd. magazines. But for another guy on Kahrtalk, the Magtech works perfectly in his gun in both magazine sizes … hence the advice to see what works in yours.

[Bill K]

Welcome to the forum!

Also from CT but hoping to make a move to PA later this year.

I have a different brand .380 and am confident, for SD purposes during the summer, to feed it any reliable, in my particular gun, name brand hollow point. For winter carry I like Hornady Critical Defense or a flat nose/truncated cone round, jacketed or hard cast.

I can tell you that a reliable .380, particularly a Kahr, can make a viable SD or BU gun.

[muggsy]

You definitely want to field strip and clean the gun before you take it to the range for the first time. You are much less likely to experience problems if you clean and lube the gun every fifty rounds during the break-in. I don't see any point in hand wracking the gun because doing so doesn't come close to simulating firing the gun. Use only good quality practice ammunition like Blazer Brass, Winchester White Box, or PMC Bronze. And above all, read the owners manual as a first resort before you screw the gun up.

[bowmanmt]

Muggsy, it sort of sucks that I bought at a gun show in Florida 300 rounds of reloads. try shooting them or what?

[Baklash]

Welcome! I cleaned both my CW9 and CM9 as advised, but neither one really needed it compared to others here who said their Kahr's were dirty or over lubricated. I also racked mine a lot, but actually shooting it works much better. I have around 300 rounds or more of Winchester White Box or Federal full metal jacket thru each one now. Today I put 2 mags of Critical Defense hollow points thru each. All without a failure of any kind. So both guns are now considered suitable for self defense.

[bowmanmt]

PMC Bronze 380acp 90gr FMJ 50rd Box is that what most recommend for my cw for practice.

[bowmanmt]

Ron and the rest of my fellow Kahrers, thanks so much for the info. I am like a sponge, soaking it all in.

[bowmanmt]

FYI the reloads that I bought are round tip, not flat

[BEARDOG]

I recommend...

PMC Bronze FMJ for factory range ammo. It runs great in my dads CW380. ( I only use my 95 LRN reloads in mine, which run perfectly too)

For defense- Hornady Critical Defense. Or a loading that uses a Hornady XTP Bullet.

Whatever ammo you buy, DO NOT buy Fiocchi .380.

No need to rack 1000 times, but they are tight when new and some racking does help loosen then up. Take it apart clean and lube it well before shooting. I recommend using grease for on sliding parts, and be sure to put a good coating on the recoil springs and guide rod. (also pay attention the the way the springs are pointing, the open/cut ends go toward the front/muzzle.)

Watch that your thumb doesn't hit the slide lock when shooting. It is easy to do with such a small gun

Hope you enjoy your new Kahr! It is a great little gun, It is as fun to shoot and accurate as much larger guns.

[Ron AZ]

FYI the reloads that I bought are round tip, not flat

Anecdotally, my experience and what I've heard on here is that round tips feed better in the .380's than flat tips. So I think that is at least in the right direction.

When I first got my P380's (1 new and 1 used) it was during the ammo shortage. I got a little bit of PMC bronze then all I could get was a quantity of Winchester White box (which is a flat tip). After the break in period, I was having numerous issues. So I ended up sending both guns to Kahr. So I am unable to say how the ammo was separate from the issues with the guns.

After getting both guns running great, my comments on the ammo I tried are in a previous post. Did not go back and try PMC or Winchester again. I will just reiterate that even with 7 rd. mags that I had failures to feed with other ammo, I have never ever had a single failure of any kind with HPR TMJ 100 gr ammo. Same with an acquaintance with a .380. Not always available, but when I need to restock, that is what I will go after.

As Bawanna said, Kahr seems to have gotten the bugs worked out and anecdotally there seem to be less complaints with the CW380 so hopefully you will be good to go with lots of choices.

[GROTMAN]

I suggest you watch Robin Hood with Errol Flynn. He didn't seem to have any problems concealing his bow when he needed to. :rolleyes:

Just kidding.. welcome to the forum and enjoy your new kahr..:)

[bowmanmt]

Man I am am having a hard time finding PMC Bronze, online. out of stock,, I was warned about the 380 ammo

[rickbsgu]

My p380 had issues when I first got it. FTEs and stove pipes a-plenty.

I put about 300 round through it and it started to function more dependably.

Then I Frog-lubed it, tore the slide apart and cleaned and dried all the internal slide parts (kahr wants you to keep them dry) and ran a couple hundred more rounds through it.

Now, I have no issues at all - just got back from the range shooting around 200 rounds 90gr XTPs and 100gr flat nose, including some one-hand drills, both strong and weak side.

(When I first got it, the flat-nose was really problematic - was about ready to give up on it, but I had a couple of boxes I needed to run through.)

Ran fine, including the flat-nose.

I've been shooting Freedom Munitions ammo, reloads for the 100gr flat-nose, and new for the 90gr XTPs. it's probably comparable to the Precision One.

Bottom line: You really have to break it in. find some ammo for which you can get a steady supply and shoot boatloads.

I highly recommend tearing down the slide after cleaning (esp if you Frog-lube it) and make sure everything inside(including the tunnels) are bone dry.

Happy shooting...

[Bawanna]

Save the reloads for after the break in. Then you can give them a try.

Shoot a couple boxes of factory at least and then try them, if they are hot enough and cycle ok, go ahead with them for break in.

[muggsy]

Muggsy, it sort of sucks that I bought at a gun show in Florida 300 rounds of reloads. try shooting them or what?

The only reloads that I shoot are the reloads that I reloaded myself. I don't trust what others reload and sometimes, I'm not so sure about my own. Kahr doesn't recommend shooting reloads, but what do they know. It's your gun and your call. Go for it if you don't mind being known as lefty, assuming that you're right handed. :)
You can always buy another gun. (Said with tongue firmly implanted in cheek.)

[berettabone]

I NEVER EVER shoot reloads................I don't care if your best friend's mother reloaded them..........................good way to lose a hand.

[bowmanmt]

After watching Ron AZ link on testing, it looks like the Precision one is the winner for self defense, now I am really confused, I thought the Hornady was the way to go.

[Bawanna]

Don't overthink it bowmanmt. Any round that goes bang is gonna ruin your day if your hit with it.

Specs and claims can be twisted and with any brand your mileage may vary.

Hornady makes good stuff, many others do as well.

Find something that runs well in ''Your" gun and run with it.

[bowmanmt]

your right. am over thinking it. I will stick with the hornady, but the xtp, or critical defense

[Ron AZ]

your right. am over thinking it. I will stick with the hornady, but the xtp, or critical defense

The .380 is a compromise. The knock on it is that it does not penetrate enough. So the LGS "wisdom" was to say only ever use FMJ's to make sure you get penetration, even though you do not get expansion. Ammo has changed though and there are choices that in objective, repeatable tests meet some criteria for penetration, get some expansion, without over penetrating like FMJ's.

In that testing report, 4 of the top 5 ammos (Precision One, HPR, Hornady Custom, and Fiocchi Extrema), all loaded with the same Hornady XTP bullet, more or less met an objective penetration test criteria. Federal Hydra Shocks (the 5th ammo) was in the same ballpark. Later he also tested Lehigh Extreme Penetrator etc.

Hornady Critical Defense (does not use the XTP bullet) was in the same testing, using the same methodology, but penetrated less than the top 5 and fell short of meeting the penetration criteria (expanded so much it got too little penetration). And a bunch of other brands that perform great in other calibers, did not meet the penetration criteria either (example Fed HST that was one of the best in 9mm testing). So it looks to me that you can not assume that bullets/ammos that you know and are great in 9 mm, .40, or .45 will do exactly the same thing in .380.

When I see "Shooting the Bull" testing criticized, it is that he gets more penetration than other testers, not less. Don't know if I believe that, as no one showed "data". But if that were to be true … it means that all his gel testing is too optimistic, all the ammo will get proportionally less penetration than he showed, and Hornady Critical Defense will be even further from coming close to penetration minimum criteria.

Since there is no data base of real shootings with all the various .380 ammos, and I can not conduct this gel testing myself, I am inclined to use one of the ammo's that look to be more optimum in that repeated, objective testing. Others will be inclined to go with what they shoot in other calibers or what's readily available to them. That is why there are all those choices and everyone is free to go with their own gut reaction! But as Bawanna said, it must run well in your gun first!

[kwh]

Well said^^^.

[bowmanmt]

I was looking at the Precision One +P ammo, the only place I can find any online is there own site, funny no other ammo sites have any?

[Armybrat]

Interesting, but since penetration of heavy winter clothing in my locale is not really an issue and Hornady CD works very well in my CT380, I'll continue to carry it.

[OldFatGuy]

Interesting, but since penetration of heavy winter clothing in my locale is not really an issue and Hornady CD works very well in my CT380, I'll continue to carry it.

Winter clothes? You mean a long sleeve shirt? :)

[Armybrat]

Winter clothes? You mean a long sleeve shirt? :)

Yeah, as long as it ain't flannel. lol

[muggsy]

I've spent half my life in flannel shirts. Them's fightin' words.

[Armybrat]

I've spent half my life in flannel shirts. Them's fightin' words.

I don't think so, Tim.

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