SC cop charged with murder

[knkali]

I bet this has already been posted. Sorry if it is a dupe.

Well here is a video. What does the forum think?

While I don't advocate running from the police, I think the LEO might have needed to put on his tennis shoes that day and run after the guy rather than shoot him.

Lets keep race out of this thread.

Surprisingly how many rounds it took to drop the guy. I don't want to seem cold but that is proof that multiple rounds are needed and that the movies of one and done is fantasy more often than not.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/caught-on-video-sc-officer-charged-with-murdering-black-man/ar-AAaA2kR?ocid=mailsignout

[OldFatGuy]

Especially since the guy had been tased and was running for the special olympics. As much as I admire and defend law enforcement most of the time, this guy needs to be hung. Looked like he was target practicing.

[berettabone]

I think he missed with the first seven............................................. ....................................

[Baklash]

I think he missed with the first seven............................................. ....................................

Probably needs to re-qualify. All jokes aside, it seems he has just made the point for a lot of demonstrators. Not a good time to really screw up considering the current tensions. He looks guilty as hell, especially when he placed his taser on the ground next to the body so he could say the guy grabbed it.

[ltxi]

Not a rush to judgement kinda guy where blaming/dissing/whatever LE is concerned but this guy brings utter shame on the profession.

[Armybrat]

Moving the dropped taser from 30' away over next to the cuffed corpse seals that cop's guilt. And his partner is an accessory.

What was he thinking?

[muggsy]

I don't think that we know enough about the officer, or the the man who was killed, or what occurred just prior to the shooting, to make any kind of judgement. As far as I'm concerned the officer is innocent of any wrong doing until he is found guilty in a court of law. I'm not going to hang anyone on the evidence presented in the court of public opinion. I don't think that's how it's supposed to work in the United States. The motorist definitely didn't have his hands up when he was shot. And, how many of you would resist arrest and try to flee over a ticket for a broken tail light? There may be more to this story than meets the eye.

[OldFatGuy]

The video is not "public opinion". It shows a cop shooting a guy in the back when he was running away.

[knkali]

The video is not "public opinion". It shows a cop shooting a guy in the back when he was running away.

While Muggsy has a point, from the way the guy was running before the bullets penetrated him and the apparent condition of the guy, I think that guy would have made it another 25 yrds before he flopped on the ground clutching his chest or tripped on a squirrel.

[downtownv]

I'm thinking' he's a plant for the "hands up don't shoot" Sharpton gang!

[b4uqzme]

While Muggsy has a point, from the way the guy was running before the bullets penetrated him and the apparent condition of the guy, I think that guy would have made it another 25 yrds before he flopped on the ground clutching his chest or tripped on a squirrel.

The video is merely evidence at this point...damning evidence...but just evidence.

[muggsy]

Moving the dropped taser from 30' away over next to the cuffed corpse seals that cop's guilt. And his partner is an accessory.

What was he thinking?
It's possible that he was thinking that he should secure his taser before another thug tried to take it. Things aren't always as they seem in videos.

[muggsy]

The video is not "public opinion". It shows a cop shooting a guy in the back when he was running away.

"A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead...however...Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force."
—Justice Byron White, Tennessee v. Garner[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule#cite_note-TennVsGarnerText-3)

[muggsy]

I personally believe that we should wait until all of the evidence is presented and not just the damning evidence. We may find that there is exculpatory evidence as well. No justice, no peace. According to Fox News the officer had a clean record except for one charge of using excessive force when he tasered a perp. The officer was exonerated of that charge.

[SlowBurn]

I personally believe that we should wait until all of the evidence is presented and not just the damning evidence. We may find that there is exculpatory evidence as well. No justice, no peace. According to Fox News the officer had a clean record except for one charge of using excessive force when he tasered a perp. The officer was exonerated of that charge.
Well said. It looks bad, but there's no harm in waiting and letting the process take its course. And we've seen lots of harm come from jumping the gun when police officers are involved in shootings.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ agreed.

[muggsy]

I always try to give the police officer the benefit of the doubt. He is putting his life on the line for us every day to protect us. If an officer is found guilty of committing a crime the are usually dealt with most severely, because they violated the public trust. Lets let cooler heads prevail and justice be done.

[marcinstl]

in the Ferguson shooting the guy was charging the cop(attack!) and I suspect that all but a few of the 12 shots were "point shooting". in this video the cop looks to be trained in the "Weaver Stance", 2 handed grip, using the sights, target was moving away from the cop(escape!). why would somebody like this run from a cop in SC? hmm, history?

[knkali]

Muggsy has a point. Lets give the guy the benefit of the doubt. That vid is pretty hard to explain away. I'll will listen though. I don't think the guy was tased then ran. He was running too well to have had that happen. Instead, it looked like the guy slapped the taser out of the Leo's hand right at the beginning. Say that is true, do you still shoot the guy as he is running away?

[muggsy]

The situation determines whether or not you shoot and none of us has the details of the situation. All that we have are preliminary reports. If you all remember, in the Ferguson case, the preliminary report was that a racist white police officer shot a black unarmed teenage gentle giant who was surrendering with his hands up. I don't believe that I would want anyone who is willing to convict an officer on preliminary reports sitting on my jury.

[swilcher7]

Oh so now we don't want to rush to judgement. But, if the video showed the "offender" attacking the officer, all the "thug," etc. comments would be taking over. And, as for the officer being exonerated in the other complaint. the are looking into that case again. Turns out it was mistaken identity (imagine that!!). Also, the second officer one the scene, a SGT, wrote in his report that they both performed CPR on the man. which the video clearly shows they did not do. So now we have falsifying reports as well. If there wasn't a video we all know where this thread would end up. Yes, there are times when shooting a person fleeing is legal (Forcible Fleeing Felon.) There are alot of things in this video that are just plain wrong.

[b4uqzme]

I'd ask you not to turn this on us swilcher7. Especially when we are recommending prudence. Many of us would want that for anyone: thug, LEO or ourselves.

[marcinstl]

you have to wonder how the men and women of the English LE dept.'s survive. armed only with their wits, training, a baton, radio, possibly some spray, they make thousands of arrests and keep England relatively safe. (some of them don't even have a patrol car, they're on foot.) what would the Brit cops do with an escaping bad guy? chase the guy, while calling in more officers to the chase? they probably know where the guy lives, so possibly have officers waiting there? might be interesting to take a closer look at Brit cops strategy, practices and training?

[swilcher7]

I'm not turning anything on anyone. This was just WRONG!! on so many levels. You don't have to agree with what I have to say, and the same goes for me. When you have VIDEO contradicting things the officer(s) wrote in their reports, there is a problem. And to say we performed CPR on the man when it is CLEARLY shown they did not just adds more fuel to the fire. And it's kind of hard to do CPR on a man cuffed behind his back!! I was a Police Officer, and I will say this now, this IS NOT ABOUT RACE, I'm not going there!! My opinion of what I am seeing is the only thing I am commenting about here. Everyone has their own as well.

[b4uqzme]

you have to wonder how the men and women of the English LE dept.'s survive. armed only with their wits, training, a baton, radio, possibly some spray, they make thousands of arrests and keep England relatively safe. (some of them don't even have a patrol car, they're on foot.) what would the Brit cops do with an escaping bad guy? chase the guy, while calling in more officers to the chase? they probably know where the guy lives, so possibly have officers waiting there? might be interesting to take a closer look at Brit cops strategy, practices and training?

I suspect that the arguable success of the British police force may be attributed more to their "beat cop" strategy vs. whether or not they carry firearms. That's something we had to give up long ago mostly due to suburban sprawl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom

If we could recover the intimacy and mutual respect between the public and LEO's, incidents like our subject could be less likely.

[knkali]

I'm not turning anything on anyone. This was just WRONG!! on so many levels. You don't have to agree with what I have to say, and the same goes for me. When you have VIDEO contradicting things the officer(s) wrote in their reports, there is a problem. And to say we performed CPR on the man when it is CLEARLY shown they did not just adds more fuel to the fire. And it's kind of hard to do CPR on a man cuffed behind his back!! I was a Police Officer, and I will say this now, this IS NOT ABOUT RACE, I'm not going there!! My opinion of what I am seeing is the only thing I am commenting about here. Everyone has their own as well.
ok you mention 2 things wrong it this vid that can easily be explained away:
1) yes CPR can easily be preformed on a victim with their hands behind their back
2) CPR could have be performed AFTER the vid ended. The guy was breathing when he was cuffed then the vid ends. He obviously went into arrest after that.

What else on the vid do you find so wrong?

[knkali]

BTW more and more British police are armed these days.

[swilcher7]

[QUOTE=knkali;339293]ok you mention 2 things wrong it this vid that can easily be explained away:
1) yes CPR can easily be preformed on a victim with their hands behind their back
2) CPR could have be performed AFTER the vid ended. The guy was breathing when he was cuffed then the vid ends. He obviously went into arrest after that.


You can not effectively do CPR on a person with their hands cuffed behind their back. Your compressions would not go deep enough, and with his hands behind him, his waist would be elevated, which would not allow his head to be tilted back enough for breathing into his lungs. I don't recall having any CPR class that taught us that. In my OPINION, by what I saw, I believe the officer could have caught this guy if he ran after him. It didn't look like this man was sprinting away like a track star. He shot the man as he was running away from him. If the video show this man squaring off or charging the officer, then I would believe it was justified. And it also looks like the first few shots hit this man. I am very aware of the "shoot to stop the threat" teaching/mentality, so I don't need to hear that. But again, the man was running away, which was wrong on his part. All this started with a traffic stop, not some major felony..

[swilcher7]

And you can do CPR on a person lying in bed, but it's not going to be effective as doing it with them a a flat, hard surface..

[berettabone]

My wife's sister is married to an English gentleman who was LE in England. He quit......................said if you can't carry a firearm, your crazy. Women getting raped and home break ins are a real problem.

[swilcher7]

I to this day don't understand why they won't let those guys carry over there. The way the world is these days. how do they expect those guys to do their jobs and protect people??

[knkali]

[QUOTE=knkali;339293]ok you mention 2 things wrong it this vid that can easily be explained away:
1) yes CPR can easily be preformed on a victim with their hands behind their back
2) CPR could have be performed AFTER the vid ended. The guy was breathing when he was cuffed then the vid ends. He obviously went into arrest after that.


You can not effectively do CPR on a person with their hands cuffed behind their back. Your compressions would not go deep enough, and with his hands behind him, his waist would be elevated, which would not allow his head to be tilted back enough for breathing into his lungs. I don't recall having any CPR class that taught us that.

Ever been around dead people that require CPR? They are very malleable. It certainly is not ideal but it can be done and has been done. To think otherwise leaves me to believe you don't sufficiently know what you are doing. Also, how do you know that they did not remove the cuffs before starting CPR?

[marcinstl]

"This originates from the formation of the Metropolitan Police Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police_Service) in the 19th century, when police were not armed, partly to counter public fears and objections over armed enforcers as this had been previously seen due to the British Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army) maintaining order when needed." (see, firing into the crowd).

public fears over armed enforcers? WTF!? that's as silly as the Germans worrying about cops becoming the SS. or the Russians worrying about the KGB?
folks, do your homework and read up on what LE has a history of in this country. LE and their unions have never been a friend to working peoples unions, cops don't cross strike lines, they bust them up. FBI as terrorists, read about the plots,plans and actions of the Hoover era FBI. cops have always been criminal in the USofA. find that bar in any big city where retired cops congregate, sit there and nurse a few beers, listen to the stories, report back here with your findings.

[swilcher7]

[QUOTE=swilcher7;339301]

It certainly is not ideal but it can be done and has been done. To think otherwise leaves me to believe you don't sufficiently know what you are doing. Also, how do you know that they did not remove the cuffs before starting CPR?

Well lets see here. For 24 years of my life, I worked in Public Safety (Police, Fire, and EMS), and we were taught to UNCUFF an unconscious person BEFORE performing CPR, and to remove them from a bed and place them on a flat surface.. So you may choose to believe what you wish. I can point you in the direction of my former coworkers who can state I was very capable of doing my job. I did not say it couldn't be done, I said it wouldn't be EFFECTIVE...Also if I didn't know what I was doing, I dont think I would have been employed doing it as long as I was....

[swilcher7]

And how do you know that they did uncuff him???? We BOTH don't know that, but I'm not saying YOU are incompetent in doing something...

[knkali]

[QUOTE=knkali;339307]

Well lets see here. For 24 years of my life, I worked in Public Safety (Police, Fire, and EMS), and we were taught to UNCUFF an unconscious person BEFORE performing CPR, and to remove them from a bed and place them on a flat surface.. So you may choose to believe what you wish. I can point you in the direction of my former coworkers who can state I was very capable of doing my job. I did not say it couldn't be done, I said it wouldn't be EFFECTIVE...Also if I didn't know what I was doing, I dont think I would have been employed doing it as long as I was....

SO how do you know the guy was still cuffed when CPR was administered? How many CPR attempts have you done in your career? How many successful?

[swilcher7]

I never said he was cuffed did I?? And you don't know if he was uncuffed as well. I've done more CPR then I can remember, some successful, some not...But there is one I am reminded of everyday when I'm in my gameroom. It's the one I have the commendation from my department hanging on my wall for. The one where myself and another officer revived a 7 month old who drowned in a bathtub. Unfortunately, his mother took him off life support a few days later. So gee, I guess I knew what I was doing then!!!

[muggsy]

you have to wonder how the men and women of the English LE dept.'s survive. armed only with their wits, training, a baton, radio, possibly some spray, they make thousands of arrests and keep England relatively safe. (some of them don't even have a patrol car, they're on foot.) what would the Brit cops do with an escaping bad guy? chase the guy, while calling in more officers to the chase? they probably know where the guy lives, so possibly have officers waiting there? might be interesting to take a closer look at Brit cops strategy, practices and training?

They've banned private ownership of firearms in England. Is that what you're calling for here? Move to england where you can be a subject of the crown instead of a citizen. And, BTW, English cops give their lives in the line of duty, too.

[Bawanna]

I bawanna utilizing the powers vested in thee by the powers that be declare this thread going no where good.

Let the trial decide and not instigate personal jabs and fisticuffs.

Be gentle, be kind.