Charter Arms Introduces snubby in .45 ACP

[TheTman]

Some one mentioned recently they were considering a Charter Arms .44 Special Bulldog. Here is something they might want to consider:
Charter Arms is introducing a .45 acp version of its Pitbull line of revolvers using rimless cartridges. They already have a 9mm and a .40. They use a system that eliminates the need for moon clips. The cartridges are loaded directly into the cylinder. I think barrel length will be 2.2 inches.
It's supposed to be available very soon.

I was thinking of getting another .44 Bulldog, but I may have to rethink that. There are certainly a lot more varieties of .45 acp ammo than there are for .44 special, and it's usually less expensive. The .45 would also most likely give a slight increase in velocity and FPE.

I wonder what the Colonel's thoughts on this is. Would he go with the .44 or the .45?

[b4uqzme]

^^^ I'm not the Colonel but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

I think one of the advantages of a revolver is that you can shoot full cartridges compared to those shortened for an automatic platform. .44 for me.

[Bawanna]

I am the colonel and I have reservations at a Holiday Inn in a couple weeks if that matters.

This does indeed create some consternation for me. WMD was the original instigator of this, something I will hold against him for quite some time to come, that and my 625 that got away AGAIN!.

My initial thought is me being a devout 45 ACP fan, the new revolver might be a fine running mate. Wouldn't require an additional place on the ammo shelf for 44 Spl. I'll have to give this some hard thought.

I was fond of my 44 Spl and I'm sure I'd like the 45 just as much if it's close quality wise these days.

Show me 10-10 on the side consternating.

[getsome]

A Charter Bullpup in .45 ACP, now you're talkin!!! That would be the cats ars right there, no problems finding ammo and a round that's known to
Get-R-Done ....Holy crap I may have to thaw out the credit card for one of those....

[JohnR]

From Ballistics by the Inch:

Federal 230 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP:

5" barrel gives you 895 ft-lbs,
2" barrel gives you 754 ft-lbs. (theoretically)
Through a S&W 325PD Airlite 2.5", 807 ft-lbs.

So the 2.5" revolver barrel robs the round of 11% of its muzzle energy.

[Bawanna]

I actually wouldn't mind if it required moon clips or half moon clips. They are a pain at the range to load and unload but make a fine speed loader and not as cumbersome as a traditional speed loader.

If they come up with a speed strip for 45 acp, that might work even better being flat.

Since most of the time it would fill a back up roll for me, it really doesn't matter much I guess.

[gb6491]

From Ballistics by the Inch: Federal 230 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP: 5" barrel gives you 895 ft-lbs, 2" barrel gives you 754 ft-lbs. (theoretically) Through a S&W 325PD Airlite 2.5", 807 ft-lbs. So the 2.5" revolver barrel robs the round of 11% of its muzzle energy.
I'm thinking those numbers are for muzzle velocity.:madgrin:
Regards, Greg

[JohnR]

I'm thinking those numbers are for muzzle velocity.:madgrin:
Regards, Greg
Actually, they say the chronos were at 15' out.


In each case we fired three rounds of a given ammo at a given barrel length, recording the velocity of the bullets at 15 feet with two commercial chronographs. If we did not get two reliable readings for each of three rounds, we repeated the process until we did. Altogether we have fired about 20,000 rounds of ammunition.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/scope.html

[kerby9mm]

I bought a pitbul 9mm before Christmas & when I got it home I loaded it & the cylinder would not close. Got it back from CA & now the hammer sticks all the way back to the frame when using SA mode & just a touch on the trigger sends the hammer & trigger forward. Now I get a new replacement gun. I did get to shoot it between malfunctions & for an inexpensive gun it does shoot nice. I see no way that speed loaders could work with the rimless extraction system.

[yqtszhj]

Just when I thought I had all the guns i needed... sigh

[muggsy]

I am the colonel and I have reservations at a Holiday Inn in a couple weeks if that matters.

This does indeed create some consternation for me. WMD was the original instigator of this, something I will hold against him for quite some time to come, that and my 625 that got away AGAIN!.

My initial thought is me being a devout 45 ACP fan, the new revolver might be a fine running mate. Wouldn't require an additional place on the ammo shelf for 44 Spl. I'll have to give this some hard thought.

I was fond of my 44 Spl and I'm sure I'd like the 45 just as much if it's close quality wise these days.

Show me 10-10 on the side consternating.

I was consternated once. Prune juice helped considerably.

[TheTman]

Tuff Strips makes a speed strip loader that works for .45 ACP, as well as .410, .44, and other cartridges.
http://www.tuffproducts.com/TUFF_QuickStrips_p/7002-bp.htm

[East River Guide]

Actually, they say the chronos were at 15' out.



http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/scope.html

I think he was pointing out that the numbers you quoted were fps, not ft/lbs, rather than where it was measured.

For ft/lbs out of a 2 inch barrel the numbers are more like 3-400, not 7-900.

See http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html

[gb6491]

Actually, they say the chronos were at 15' out.



http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/scope.html
Thanks for the heads up on that.
The energy table for .45ACP is here: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/45auto.html
Looks like Federal 230 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP makes just over 400 ft-lbf out of a five inch tube and just under 300ft-lbf from a 2.5 inch one.
That puts it near many .38 Special loads out of 6" barreled guns.
Regards,
Greg

[CJB]

Small .45acp revolver.... if its of at least "decent" quality, I'm in!

So...how are those Charter Arms revolvers these days?

[TheTman]

I think Charter Arms a step or 2 below S&W and Ruger. Not something that will last 30,000 rounds probably. Not without some work I imagine anyway. But I think it's a great gun for the money. I bought my daughter a 6 shot 38 special CA revolver, and it shot fine, and she loves it. Now my ex-wife is wanting one. I would love to have my old CA .44 special back. I'd rather have a CA than a Rossi, or one of those Philippine Colt knockoffs. I had a problem with my CA, I was getting light primer strikes, and sent it back for service, and they fixed it and had It back in a short time. That CA was my "bike" gun, it went everywhere with me on my Harley. I had the Barami Hip Grips on it so I could slip the hook on the grip over my waist band and belt and carry it "Mexican style" with no holster. Made it easy to slip out of the saddle bag and into my waistband when stopping to eat or whatever. Last I looked the .44 was around $350-375 most places. I think the current offerings are the best they've ever produced. Someone on another forum said they came up with the transfer bar safety mechanism or something like that, but didn't patent it, because they thought it should be available for any revolver that wanted to use it. I like that kind of thinking. Most manufacturers would patent something like that to try and get a royalty from anyone that wanted to use it. It has a lifetime guarantee, so I suppose if you ever wear it out, they'll either repair it or replace it. I would like to get another CA .44 or a .45 one of these days. I shoot both calibers, so it doesn't matter much to me.

[340pd]

Who cares what the ballistics are? Cheap ammo, huge fun factor makes me look into this further.

[gb6491]

Small .45acp revolver.... if its of at least "decent" quality, I'm in!

So...how are those Charter Arms revolvers these days?
The new ones I've looked at appear to be, at least cosmetically, as good as the early Charters I have (I think that's a good thing).
Here's a review Hickok45 did towards the end of last year:
42Liq00CYmw
Regards,
Greg

[CJB]

I thought Iver Johnson invented the transfer bar...."hammer the hammer" was the slogan

[Longitude Zero]

Charter Arms = Boat anchor. Of any other issue requiring a weight to hold something down. I have fried a few and all were junk. Hikoks results migth be similar. I often wonder how much of what he films is cut and not show and why?

[marcinstl]

reasonably warm .45acp defense loads in a 20oz. gun? nah, I already tried that in a CW45, hurt my hand and was slow(taking time to regret) to the second, third shot. since that lightweight gun failed experiment, I have found a thick 1 1/2" gun belt(loops on some pants are almost to small) and the side mounting "truck driver" suspenders. (some times still use the old 4 hook suspenders, depends). for comfortable carry a quality holster at 1:30-2:15 ("appendix carry") works for me, standing sitting, driving, all comfortable. big guns, small guns, they all can be carried with the right equipment. .45acp? make mine an N-frame or a Vaquero.
(1911 if your into auto's).

[CJB]

Yes, reasonably warm, and warmer loads in a light revolver....

If you read Hatcher's Notebook, he goes into the math and physics of why the automatics, given the same total handgun weight, feel worse than a revolver of the same weight. He even goes to the trouble of blocking the slide on a Colt .45 Auto to demonstrate the same.

In short, because of the lack of recoiling parts, the revolver will feel much more comfortable, something that any old 1917 revolver owner knows already (compared to their Colt .45 Auto). The 1917 weighed about 2-1/4 lbs vs 2-1/2 for the auto. Being marginally lighter, the kick is always much much less, to the amazement many who fire it.

[downtownv]

From Ballistics by the Inch:

Federal 230 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP:

5" barrel gives you 895 ft-lbs,
2" barrel gives you 754 ft-lbs. (theoretically)
Through a S&W 325PD Airlite 2.5", 807 ft-lbs.

So the 2.5" revolver barrel robs the round of 11% of its muzzle energy.

Now you sound like my wife......

[Barth]

I'm thinking those numbers are for muzzle velocity.:madgrin:
Regards, Greg

LOL, you think???

As for 44 Special vs 45 ACP?
It's a no brainer for me.
Just look at the selection, availability and price of 44 Special.

Also, 45 ACP reliable expansion from a 2" snubbie could be an issue.
I'd recommend Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T-Series or Speer GDHP Short Barrel.
Full Disclosure: I run GDHP Short Barrel in most of my revolvers and my MK40 Elite.

Update: I've switched to GDHP SB in all my revolvers (38 Special, 357 Magnum & 44 Magnum).

[TheTman]

I checked my .44 speed loader for my CA .44, and it holds .45 acp just fine. As long as the holes are in the same place the speed loader for the CA .44 should work with the .45.
The big rubber grips it comes with soaks up a lot of recoil, and it's not unpleasant to shoot.

I was looking at the CA website and they're saying it won't be available until late fall now.

[DeaconKC]

An old trick I saw a fellow use for his.45 ACP Blackhawk was to use a 1911 magazine and shuck the shells straight in. Worked pretty well.

[Bawanna]

That's a fine idea right there. That would work super.

Why didn't I think of that? Ok, Ok, I know, I know.

[CJB]

some little bit of looking.... seems folks are mostly happy with newer CA revolvers, say they smooth up nice after some shooting.

this might be something to look for, backup for the 45 in my pocket.

food for serious thought

[TheTman]

Despite LZ's negative opinion, (I wish all boat anchors shot as nice as my CA .44 did) I think the video by Hickock45 pretty much sums up the newer offerings from CA.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. I bought my daughter one, that's how much confidence I have in them. I bought her the 6 shot .38 special, and that is a fun gun to shoot.
She's living down in a small farm and ranch community now, and target shooting is one of the things they do there, so she was happy to have her own gun and not have to borrow one. At the time I bought it, she was living alone at a church camp out in the country, and was getting spooked once in awhile living out their alone. She went from being borderline anti-gun, to asking me to help her pick out something. I has so happy about that that I just bought her something we agreed on. At first she wanted the green framed 5 shot, but I talked her into a 6 shot stainless steel, and green rubber grips. I figured the extra shot may come in handy someday, you never know. Plus it cost less and had a bit longer barrel.
BTW I'm proud to announce that she is now an ordained Minister of the Assembly of God Church.

[yqtszhj]

I went by Charters booth at thd NRA show to check out the .45 revolver and guess what, NO GUNS!!! It seems that yellow freight lines lost 1 of their 5 crates (the largest one) and it had ALL THEIR GUNS IN IT! They had a full display setup and not one gun. Just signs on all the displays saying Yellow Freight lost them. The president of Charter Arms was there and had the sadest most disappointed look on his face I had seen. I felt sorry for the man.

Anyway spoke to him for a while and picked up a catalog. It shows the .45 pistol at 22 oz. They had a .38 snubbie in there that was 12 oz.

[DeaconKC]

My wife has the lightweight 38 snub. It is not finished to the level of my S&Ws, but it is a very well made gun. Shoots to point of aim and works every time. i would not hesitate to buy another Charter.

[DeaconKC]

Here ya go! http://www.tuffproducts.com/category_s/1889.htm

[zaitcev]

I bought one of these Pitbull .45 things a couple of months ago and put maybe 500 or 800 round through so far. Overall, I like it, and I had no malfunctions of any kind. Cylinder is not binding, timing is not missing, no misfires, and even their goofy ejection system works perfectly. However, although it's a fine gun as far as the intended function goes, it is a lowest quality firearm I have ever bought. In particular:

- one of the screws was not tightened (it was hidden by the rubber grip - coincidence?)
- barrel is installed canted (common in revolvers, I know, but still)
- guy who installed the barrel smacked the frame and made a burr (machining otherwise is perfect)
- rifling looks mightily suspicious, there's a ton of broach chattering leaving a ladder

I can see why people think it's a piece of junk, but I love the thing. The recoil is a touch easier than on .45 XD-S, surprisingly enough.

One note of caution: it does not have the same dimensions as Bulldog .44spl. The cylinder is way bigger. For that reason, you cannot use Bulldog holsters. I found a cheap nylon Barsony holster that works acceptably, called "6-position" holster.

[TheTman]

If you are not happy send it back. They have great customer service. My daughters .38 police undercover had no imperfections I could find. And my .44 was pretty nice too for a "lesser" quality pistol. I did have to send the .44 back once, and they had it back to me in a couple of weeks. I started getting light strikes on the primer. I think the cylinder had worked forward a little bit. They are trying to make a good impression on people, so customer service was pretty responsive. I'd buy another .44 in a heartbeat if I ran across one at a good price. Right now there are a couple other pistols for less money I am looking at. One being the Walther PPX that can be had for around 300. 16 shots in 9, and 14 in .40. It's an ugly sucker, but people seem to like it.

[zaitcev]

Here's a short (4 minute 34 second) video review:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obkdJ-tdlfQ

Hickok45's is significantly more extensive, but if you're in a rush, this should do.

[berettabone]

The area of the forcing cone doesn't look too well made.............................I would prefer a Ruger SP101 in .357. Looks like about a $200 firearm. Overpriced IMHO.

[CPTKILLER]

Really not interested.

[CJB]

I will take one!

[yqtszhj]

I will take one!

Im right there with you.

[jocko]

sold charter guns back 30+ years ago. If they are no better than then I will pass. Sent one back for a customer, only to yhave it stolen in the factory itself and later on used in a murder in NY city. Just sayin

[Bawanna]

I know their quality improved by leaps and bounds in the 80's and 90's, been up and down since.

I believe I'm on board for one myself. I'd probably want to see it in person and not order on line.

I know back 30+ years ago it was a case of if you get a good one your golden, but if you got a bad one there wasn't much one could do to fix it. Trigger components were soft etc.

Yeah I'm in for one.

[Barth]

It's interesting.
But I've already got four S&W pre-lock revolvers in various calibers.
So I'm good:D

My favorite carry revolver? (Special K)
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r678/barthunderwood/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150805_151320_001_zpsspm27rw0.jpg

[TheTman]

I believe the quality of today's Charter Arms is far better than those of 30 years ago. The two I've purchased were well made, shot to POA, and were very reliable, except that my .44 had to go back to fix light primer strikes, once I got it back, it never failed me again. Customer Service is very responsive if you do have a problem. Not everyone can afford a Ruger or S&W revolver, so they fill a niche. I'd rather have a CA revolver than a Rossi or some of those cheap imports. I've had Taurus revolvers that have been good pistols too.
I'm on the Dan Wesson bandwagon now, and try to snatch up any reasonably priced ones I come across. They are getting scarce. Not the new ones, the older ones made in Monsoon.

[jocko]

[QUOTE=TheTman;349248]I believe the quality of today's Charter Arms is far better than those of 30 years ago. The two I've purchased were well made, shot to POA, and were very reliable, except that my .44 had to go back to fix light primer strikes, once I got it back, it never failed me again. Customer Service is very responsive if you do have a problem. Not everyone can afford a Ruger or S&W revolver, so they fill a niche. I'd rather have a CA revolver than a Rossi or some of those cheap imports. I've had Taurus revolvers that have been good pistols too.
I'm on the Dan Wesson bandwagon now, and try to snatch up any reasonably priced ones I come across. They are getting scarce. Not the new ones, the older ones made in Monsoon.[/QUO




I'm on the Dan Wesson bandwagon now, and try to snatch up any reasonably priced ones I come across. They are getting scarce. Not the new ones, the older ones made in Monsoon.

Your sentence needs some political correctness, I was recently promoted to this position by the colonel, so I am correcting your above sentence. We no longer are supposed tocall illegal babies born in the cuntry as ANCHOR BABIES, so i think your sentence of "try to snatch up any resonabley price ones" should be changed to "try to buy up any resonably priced ones. Just sayin Just trying to avoikd a womens movement against you..

How am i doin colonel??

[Barth]

Your sentence needs some political correctness, I was recently promoted to this position by the colonel, so I am correcting your above sentence. We no longer are supposed tocall illegal babies born in the cuntry as ANCHOR BABIES, so i think your sentence of "try to snatch up any resonabley price ones" should be changed to "try to buy up any resonably priced ones. Just sayin Just trying to avoikd a womens movement against you..

How am i doin colonel??

WOW! I have no idea what in the world you are talking about?
And your spelling is atrocious.

Welcome Back Jocko!

[Bawanna]

[QUOTE=TheTman;349248]I believe the quality of today's Charter Arms is far better than those of 30 years ago. The two I've purchased were well made, shot to POA, and were very reliable, except that my .44 had to go back to fix light primer strikes, once I got it back, it never failed me again. Customer Service is very responsive if you do have a problem. Not everyone can afford a Ruger or S&W revolver, so they fill a niche. I'd rather have a CA revolver than a Rossi or some of those cheap imports. I've had Taurus revolvers that have been good pistols too.
I'm on the Dan Wesson bandwagon now, and try to snatch up any reasonably priced ones I come across. They are getting scarce. Not the new ones, the older ones made in Monsoon.[/QUO




I'm on the Dan Wesson bandwagon now, and try to snatch up any reasonably priced ones I come across. They are getting scarce. Not the new ones, the older ones made in Monsoon.

Your sentence needs some political correctness, I was recently promoted to this position by the colonel, so I am correcting your above sentence. We no longer are supposed tocall illegal babies born in the cuntry as ANCHOR BABIES, so i think your sentence of "try to snatch up any resonabley price ones" should be changed to "try to buy up any resonably priced ones. Just sayin Just trying to avoikd a womens movement against you..

How am i doin colonel??

Good job! Keep it up.

[mr surveyor]

funny ..... no actually scary .... I understud every word ofit



jd