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187911
05-01-2015, 03:44 PM
I've always heard good things about Kahrs except in the case of the CM380. As I mentioned in another post, I haven't purchased one yet because of the Kahr warranty, but I always wanted one. Anyway, I'm a huge fan of all metal pistols, so when I seen that mint condition used MK9s and K9s could be had in my price range, I decided that I would buy one... One thing struck me as odd though. That was I was seeing $700-$800 ($1,000+ MSRP) guns selling for half price or less, but there didn't seem like anyone else was jumping to grab them up. Also, compared to other firearms, there didn't seem to be as much online reviews and talk pertaining to them.

That lead me asking "Why isn't the Kahr MK9 and P9 popular? (http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/212646-why-isnt-kahr-mk9-p9-popular.html)" To my surprize, the consensus was that Kahrs are unreliable. My question is, before I send $500 on a used firearm without a warranty, does their gripes have any merit?



Kahrs have a history of being hit or miss.
Magazines are flawed; rounds pop out; follower cracks; causes other failures while shooting.
Frame and slide cracks (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Kahr+MK9+slide+crack)


Have all of these issues been addressed?

OldFatGuy
05-01-2015, 03:59 PM
I like my CM40, but I don't see me buying another Kahr down the road.

187911
05-01-2015, 04:03 PM
I like my CM40, but I don't see me buying another Kahr down the road.
Why is that if you like your CM40?

b4uqzme
05-01-2015, 04:08 PM
...That lead me asking "Why isn't the Kahr MK9 and P9 popular? (http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/212646-why-isnt-kahr-mk9-p9-popular.html)" ...

Who'd you ask? :D

OldFatGuy
05-01-2015, 04:10 PM
Reading this forum! they are hit and miss. For the price of these guns I really don't understand why Kahr doesn't pay more attention to quality control. Seems like they spit out as many bad ones as good ones. I bought a factory blem model for $294 new. I got a good one, it's super reliable. Some I have seen on here have terrible machining. The mag follower has a design issue IMO. The metal tab that does the work is embedded in plastic. Just doesn't seem very smart to me, plastic always loses. I don't shoot much, I can't afford it. The little I have shot this thing, I really like it. I got a laser ammo thingy, and see that the gun shoots low. I thought it was me, but it's not. I'm anxious to get to the range and see if my compensation works with live ammo.

b4uqzme
05-01-2015, 04:11 PM
... One thing struck me as odd though. That was I was seeing $700-$800 ($1,000+ MSRP) guns selling for half price or less...

I typically buy used firearms for about half the original street price. So I don't find that alarming at all. :)

b4uqzme
05-01-2015, 04:15 PM
Reading this forum! they are hit and miss. For the price of these guns I really don't understand why Kahr doesn't pay more attention to quality control. Seems like they spit out as many bad ones as good ones. I bought a factory blem model for $294 new. I got a good one, it's super reliable. Some I have seen on here have terrible machining. The mag follower has a design issue IMO. The metal tab that does the work is embedded in plastic. Just doesn't seem very smart to me, plastic always loses. I don't shoot much, I can't afford it. The little I have shot this thing, I really like it. I got a laser ammo thingy, and see that the gun shoots low. I thought it was me, but it's not. I'm anxious to get to the range and see if my compensation works with live ammo.

You can never get an accurate representation of HOW MANY bad guns there are compared to the good ones by reading forums. I'm surprised that isn't more obvious.

P.S. are you sure your laser thingy is adjusted correctly?

Thanks!

187911
05-01-2015, 04:15 PM
I typically buy used firearms for about half the original street price. So I don't find that alarming at all. :)

Me too, but what I found alarming was the fact that no one else seemed all that interested in what seemed like a great deal to me.

b4uqzme
05-01-2015, 04:18 PM
.... For the price of these guns I really don't understand why Kahr doesn't pay more attention to quality control.... I bought a factory blem model for $294 new. ...

????

b4uqzme
05-01-2015, 04:20 PM
Me too, but what I found alarming was the fact that no one else seemed all that interested in what seemed like a great deal to me.

Well if there was always someone else interested, we'd have to pay more right???

But to actually answer your question: I think small and light (read plastic) has replaced small and steel for now. It's a great chance to buy fantastic guns at reasonable prices. Enjoy!

OvalNut
05-01-2015, 04:21 PM
I don't agree with the premise of this thread.

I have 1 Kahr, a PM9, and it is a fine completely reliable accurate firearm. I have put about 600 rounds through it at this point. It's a fine weapon.

Tim

OldFatGuy
05-01-2015, 04:26 PM
b4uqzme. I know the sample on this forum is a small representation. So I'm just using this sample for my discussion. I worked in machining for years, and some stuff I've seen on here would be unacceptable in my experience.
As far as my SureStrike laser ammo. it is seated and secured in the chamber properly. And when I first got it, I saw the same thing I saw at the range, low. I thought I was suffering from the muzzle dive phenomena, anticipating the BANG and pulling the gun down. But I see the same thing without the bang. I've learned how to compensate, and I can hit a dime consistently at about 15 feet. What will happen under live fire will be interesting.
As for my factory blem, I got a good one, what can I say?

JohnR
05-01-2015, 04:31 PM
You can't compare a used price with MSRP. No one pays MSRP unless it's some unicorn gun like when the Ruger 1911 first came out.

I don't find the Kahr used/new price differential any different from other brands.

b4uqzme
05-01-2015, 04:34 PM
b4uqzme. I know the sample on this forum is a small representation. So I'm just using this sample for my discussion. I worked in machining for years, and some stuff I've seen on here would be unacceptable in my experience.
...

And it's unacceptable to Kahr too. The owners should send them back so Kahr can make them right.

b4uqzme
05-01-2015, 04:35 PM
...
As for my factory blem, I got a good one, what can I say?

Yep, you are in the majority! :D

b4uqzme
05-01-2015, 04:39 PM
187911,

I'll be the first to admit that the steel Kahrs appear to be more reliable than the polymer ones...not that the polymer ones are bad. If the internet complaints have impacted the value of steel Kahrs too, I say jump on one of those deals! You won't regret it.

deadeye
05-01-2015, 04:49 PM
Going on 3000 rounds without a glitch with my CM9. (Other than 1 I caused!.) What can I say about dependability? When I buy another hand gun Kahr will be at the top of my list.

Dreams_of_Steel
05-01-2015, 04:51 PM
And it's unacceptable to Kahr too. The owners should send them back so Kahr can make them right.

+1 on this. I bought a new Kahr T9 and had problems with it on my first range trip. I called Kahr, they sent me a prepaid mailing label, and a couple weeks later I had a brand new frame, barrel, and reworked slide. The tech who worked on my gun also polished the feed ramp, slide release, mag release, and gave me 3 new mags. The gun runs perfectly now (and can be loaded using the slingshot method or riding the slide home) and I could not be any happier. From my experience Kahr makes the problem right without question, and IMHO is the most comfortable and accurate semi-auto pistol I've ever shot. It is also the first gun I've purchased that had any problems, and I was frustrated with the whole thing at first but even while my T9 was at the factory, I went and bought a CW9 because I really like the Kahr trigger and ergonomics. It was a decision well made, and I foresee a PM9 or MK9 in my future as well. When it comes down to it, all manufacturers have problems with some of their guns, and I refuse to believe that there is an exception to that rule. You are infinitely more likely to read of reliability issues and problems (I contributed to that with my posts of problems with my T9) than you are to hear of "insert number of flawless rounds here" and it be entirely accurate. I have a $200 Turkish-made GI 1911 and it has had exactly 1 FTF and that was during the first 20 rounds. I also have a brother with a Kimber Super Carry Pro HD that cost $1400 and he had nothing but problems until it went back to the factory. Overall, I don't feel that you can go wrong with a Kahr product, if it's what you like and want. /End of rant.

Bawanna
05-01-2015, 04:52 PM
I'm still surprised at how many what I consider to be gun folks have still never heard of Kahr......they are behind the curve in name recognition for sure.

We also have to acknowledge that bad comments or complaints far outnumber good reports on this forum.
Partially because many people come here looking for help and I like to think that most times they get good help here.
Others are completely ticked off and beyond saving and wouldn't own another kahr if they received 50 percent of their stock and lunch Mr. Moon himself, no saving those.

I do know that the 380's had some issues in the early days, lots of them and firmly believe for the most part they have those figured out and they are running with all the other models.

I believe all manufactures of guns and most everything else should put more effort into quality control, just seems like it would pay dividends in the long run but alas some have issues.
I certainly would not make a blanket statement and say Kahrs are unreliable. I would not carry one if they were. I won't carry any gun until it's proven itself to be a shooter. Even a Wilson Combat top of the line gun that cost near as much as my van would get a shake down trip or 5 to the range to prove itself.

I forget where I was going and don't know where I am..................

Happy Friday.

muggsy
05-01-2015, 05:47 PM
187911, I don't think that you should buy that used Kahr. Leave it for someone who will appreciate it with all of it's faults. From the tone of your original post you aren't that type of person.

Bawanna
05-01-2015, 05:51 PM
Hey it's Friday, happy day. Why so quick to judge?

187911
05-01-2015, 06:08 PM
187911, I don't think that you should buy that used Kahr. Leave it for someone who will appreciate it with all of it's faults. From the tone of your original post you aren't that type of person.

What tone did you assume there was in my OP? I thought Kahrs where reliable firearms (even if I am not a fan of their warranty), but when I brought up buying one on another forum, I heard horror stories (which I wasn't expecting). I listed what I heard specifically, and asked "Have all of these issues been addressed?" that others brought to my attention. I was told that slides and mags where cracking and there were magazine and other reliability issues. I searched this site, and saw a small handful of complaints about the same thing from a year or so ago. Now you took a jab at me, but if you were in my shoes, would you not come to a dedicated forum and ask if the issues that were brought to your attention on pertaining to a used non warrantied gun you're about to purchase has been fixed by the manufacture?

If you have any real information to add pertaining to whether the issues with slides cracking were addressed or is still an issue, or if there are any other known issues I should know about (or the lack there of) before I purchase the used Kahr that's not based on the tone you mistakenly thought I had, I would love to hear it. :D

OldFatGuy
05-01-2015, 06:18 PM
Why is that if you like your CM40?

And I like variety, if you've seen one Kahr, you've seen them all! I'm looking for a 9mm that is smaller and lighter than my CM40, it's a tough task. The Sig P290RS looks good, though heavy at 20.5 oz.

O'Dell
05-01-2015, 06:35 PM
Reading this forum! they are hit and miss. For the price of these guns I really don't understand why Kahr doesn't pay more attention to quality control. Seems like they spit out as many bad ones as good ones. I bought a factory blem model for $294 new. I got a good one, it's super reliable. Some I have seen on here have terrible machining. The mag follower has a design issue IMO. The metal tab that does the work is embedded in plastic. Just doesn't seem very smart to me, plastic always loses. I don't shoot much, I can't afford it. The little I have shot this thing, I really like it. I got a laser ammo thingy, and see that the gun shoots low. I thought it was me, but it's not. I'm anxious to get to the range and see if my compensation works with live ammo.

If it's that "hit or miss", I guess I must be incredibly lucky. I've had eight Kahrs with nary a problem. No 380's though, because I don't like the round.

b4uqzme
05-01-2015, 06:37 PM
... but when I brought up buying one on another forum, I heard horror stories...

Yeah! Come on here and ask me about Glocks and I'll give you an earful! :D:p:rolleyes:

187911
05-01-2015, 06:39 PM
And I like variety, if you've seen one Kahr, you've seen them all! I'm looking for a 9mm that is smaller and lighter than my CM40, it's a tough task. The Sig P290RS looks good, though heavy at 20.5 oz.

Umm, you're kind of SOL then lol... There's only the DB9 (good luck with that), the $1000 Rohrbaugh, and the Kahr CM9/PM9. The P290rs is a heavy pistol.. Weighs more than the bigger M&P Shield. Still gets good reviews though. I'll probably will pick one up myself sooner or later.

187911
05-01-2015, 06:42 PM
Yeah! Come on here and ask me about Glocks and I'll give you an earful! :D:p:rolleyes:
I hate Glocks too so the chances of that happening is nil.:rolleyes:

downtownv
05-01-2015, 06:50 PM
And I like variety, if you've seen one Kahr, you've seen them all! I'm looking for a 9mm that is smaller and lighter than my CM40, it's a tough task. The Sig P290RS looks good, though heavy at 20.5 oz.
The sig 290 was a Dog, unless you have girly hands, the grip is too small. One of the rare Sig Sauer Flops imho....the 938 is the Sig to go with in compact frames.

Barth
05-01-2015, 07:39 PM
My MK40 Elite has been flawless with ~3K rounds (~1K HPs).
The quality has been nothing short of outstanding.
Generally the all steel MK40/9 guns have a great reputation from what I've read.
Any manufacturer will put out an occasional stinker.
Those should be sent back to the manufacturer for repair.

kerby9mm
05-01-2015, 08:03 PM
I own no plastic guns but I have a mk9 & mk40. I feel that they are at the top of the list of well made guns. Both feed rounds even if I ride the slide (just as a test). I believe mine were made in 2009-2010 by the serial #s. I purchased both in 2011 new. For carry it would be a mk9 range k9. As far as price kahrs aren't S&W revolvers so they aren't investments. I feel the price in op's post are very good for good guns.

muggsy
05-01-2015, 08:34 PM
What tone did you assume there was in my OP? I thought Kahrs where reliable firearms (even if I am not a fan of their warranty), but when I brought up buying one on another forum, I heard horror stories (which I wasn't expecting). I listed what I heard specifically, and asked "Have all of these issues been addressed?" that others brought to my attention. I was told that slides and mags where cracking and there were magazine and other reliability issues. I searched this site, and saw a small handful of complaints about the same thing from a year or so ago. Now you took a jab at me, but if you were in my shoes, would you not come to a dedicated forum and ask if the issues that were brought to your attention on pertaining to a used non warrantied gun you're about to purchase has been fixed by the manufacture?

If you have any real information to add pertaining to whether the issues with slides cracking were addressed or is still an issue, or if there are any other known issues I should know about (or the lack there of) before I purchase the used Kahr that's not based on the tone you mistakenly thought I had, I would love to hear it. :D

I own a Kahr CM9. I've run several thousand rounds through it without a single malfunction since the break in period ended. Not one failure to feed, fire, extract or eject. When I'm on I can keep all of my shots inside of a 3" circle at 21 feet rapid fire. My Kahr CM9 is 100% reliable and it has the smoothest DA trigger of any striker fired auto out there. There's only one way to find out if a gun is reliable. Buy it and try it. You can hear horror stories on every gun ever manufactured and you're expecting 100% reliability from a used gun with no history. Not very realistic in my opinion.

Armybrat
05-01-2015, 09:13 PM
What Muggsy's last post said - except I can't afford to shoot that much.

187911
05-02-2015, 04:03 AM
I own a Kahr CM9. I've run several thousand rounds through it without a single malfunction since the break in period ended. Not one failure to feed, fire, extract or eject. When I'm on I can keep all of my shots inside of a 3" circle at 21 feet rapid fire. My Kahr CM9 is 100% reliable and it has the smoothest DA trigger of any striker fired auto out there. There's only one way to find out if a gun is reliable. Buy it and try it. You can hear horror stories on every gun ever manufactured and you're expecting 100% reliability from a used gun with no history. Not very realistic in my opinion.
Good to hear, and no, I'm NOT expecting 100% reliability out of a used gun, but I want to know if there's any common issues from the manufacturing standpoint, i.e., cracking slides, breaking mag followers, etc...

Kind of like buying a used car. It's one thing to take on the risk of buying used, but to compile the fact that the car has recalls and other common manufacturing issues to boot is too much.

DanTana
05-02-2015, 05:34 AM
I have a CM9 I bought new and have not had one single issue with it. Now I did follow the advice given me here to tear it down, and thoroughly clean it before I shot it, I polished the feed ramp on the barrel added a Crimson Trace Laser. No issues. I was having a little trouble aiming it until I got the CT Laser for it, now I can group it fairly well, but that's my eyes. After about 100-150 rds at the range it will start to make your had a little sore.

hardluk1
05-02-2015, 06:44 AM
Totally to unreliable to some small percentage of buyers . Go buy another brand and save the kahrs for those that don't need to ask about quality or reliability . My 3 have been great from round one , hand rack just fine and gave one to one of my girls as her CC . That's one was a troubled pistol from a well seasoned owner that been just great for me . So good in fact I bought a smaller cm9 and larger tp40 all for CC duty. Been 100% reliable for many thousands of rounds and up to 8 years and counting .

Maybe you would be better off with a brand your comfortable with and don't have to ask about all the internet issues . Only owned one bad handgun in my 47 years of buying and shooting and to many handguns . A Remington r51 and it was pulled from the market for re-engineering !!

timboy
05-02-2015, 06:48 AM
My CW380 needed a trip back to Kahr when it was new to get it working smooth,I had a friend who had a Kahr 9mm(I don't recall the model) and he hated it,said it was a pos jamomatic and he was happy when it was stolen.
With that said I would buy my CW380 again,its a great pistol.

hardluk1
05-02-2015, 06:59 AM
Totally to unreliable to some small percentage of buyers . Go buy another brand and save the kahrs for those that don't need to ask about quality or reliability . My 3 have been great from round one , hand rack just fine and gave one to one of my girls as her CC . That's one was a troubled pistol from a well seasoned owner that been just great for me . So good in fact I bought a smaller cm9 and larger tp40 all for CC duty. Been 100% reliable for many thousands of rounds and up to 8 years and counting .

Some people would be better off with a brand there comfortable with and don't have to ask about all the issues , real or not Only owned one bad handgun in my 47 years of buying and shooting . A Remington r51 and it was pulled from the market for re-engineering !!

muggsy
05-02-2015, 08:20 AM
When the Glock 19 Gen 4s first came out they had problems with jambing and brass to face. Glock changed the recoil springs, and ejectors to correct the problems. If you got an early production model the Glock 19 Gen 4 was a POS. If you bought one after the production changes the Glock 19 Gen 4s were perfection. No one builds a more compact or lighter concealed carry pistol than Kahr. No semiautomatic handgun is totally reliable. Because man is imperfect the guns that he builds are imperfect. There was only one perfect man in this world and he was hung from a cross.

187911
05-02-2015, 08:46 AM
Totally to unreliable to some small percentage of buyers . Go buy another brand and save the kahrs for those that don't need to ask about quality or reliability . My 3 have been great from round one , hand rack just fine and gave one to one of my girls as her CC . That's one was a troubled pistol from a well seasoned owner that been just great for me . So good in fact I bought a smaller cm9 and larger tp40 all for CC duty. Been 100% reliable for many thousands of rounds and up to 8 years and counting .

Some people would be better off with a brand there comfortable with and don't have to ask about all the issues , real or not Only owned one bad handgun in my 47 years of buying and shooting . A Remington r51 and it was pulled from the market for re-engineering !!

I'd ask about issues of any brand no matter what brand it is. I'm interested in a gun, I research, find out about any issues, find out is they were address, and then go on from there. I've heard about issues pertaining to the Gen4 Glocks, so if I was thinking about buying one, I'd inquire about whether those issues where fixed as well. Heard certain releases of the M&P Shield, Sig P238, and the XDs had issues. Before I purchased one, I asked about those issues, if they were fixed, and how I could tell if the gun I was buying was the updated version.

Not sure why some are going on the defensive, seem to be a little offended, and/or have an issue with me doing this. It's common sense.

marcinstl
05-02-2015, 09:09 AM
from the original post, " I'm a huge fan of all metal pistols". ok, that's good, ah, what kind of trigger do you like? looking for a carry gun(s), range gun, house gun?
a couple of 2" revolvers for carry, a 1911 for the range, 12ga. pump for around the house. or any variations you choose or can afford.
(for metal guns, don't forget to look at Bersa. for used metal guns, keep an eye out for older, all metal Rugers, S&W's, Sigs.)

berettabone
05-02-2015, 10:09 AM
JMHO..............I did much investigating before I purchased my MK. I had heard all of the horror stories. I heard the " you should get a Kimber", or " you should get a Glock, they go bang every time". I swear, if I hear that line one more time, I'll vomit. Many people who purchase firearms, have no clue on the mechanics/operation of their firearm, and have no clue how to remedy the problems. They are not gunsmiths. I can understand their frustrations. I believe that until someone can take apart their firearm blindfolded, and can deal with certain hiccups/idiosyncrasies that their firearm may have, and can qualify at a range with their firearm, they have no business owning one. Many people who come on this sight to complain about their firearm, have no clue in it's operation, and wouldn't know where to start. Hence, this forum. Have a problem, you can probably get the remedy here. If your looking for sympathy, or to get our permission, or you need someone to tell you, yes, buy a Kahr...............we can't make the decision for you. In my 40+ years of shooting, and a lot of different firearms, I have yet to own one that gave me problems. If you want to own one of the smallest conceal firearms made, you have to understand it's platform. A lot of stuff going on in a very small space. Some people are bound to have some issues. You should see the machining on the new firearms coming out..............it's atrocious. I don't think your taking any more of a chance purchasing a Kahr versus any other firearm. I just purchased a Ruger pistol, and the machining was lousy. I took it in, got a fluff and buff, and it's good to go. The craftsmanship these days is gone. The demand for firearms is at an all time high, and companies are just pumping them out as fast as they can. If you do purchase a Kahr, and you have issues, come to this forum again, and they will help get it running smooth.:)

yqtszhj
05-02-2015, 10:20 AM
Kahr 9mm's are great. IMO no one beats kahrs for size and weight for the chambered caliber. My Kahr .45's needed the breakin but all now run fine. If you like long DA triggers like I do the kahr trigger is super smooth.

My experience with kahrs has been as good or better than my experience with Beretta's, Glocks (I have 2, one is Perfection, the other one IS NOT), some 1911 platforms, bersa, Ruger.

Now my J-frame is flawless too but i shoot the Kahrs a whole lot better. That and I can buy .45 cheaper than .38.

marshal kane
05-02-2015, 10:24 AM
As for the P9, I have one bought new with night sights and black finish. I did have some fail to feed problems with it during the break-in period. Found burrs on the inside feed lips of the magazines which I de-burred. The gun has since function flawlessly over the last 1200 rounds I put through it. As for the Kahr 5 year warranty, any major problems will likely occur long before the warranty runs out and IMO the warranty period is better if not just as good as any gun manufacturer will give you. My P9 is my CCW and I have no doubts as to its accuracy or reliability.

berettabone
05-02-2015, 10:34 AM
I had to learn, just like many others..................you have to put a death grip on these small Kahr's, otherwise you will have issues. They are not range guns, they are defensive guns. I will say, that if Kahr would use metal followers in their magazines, they could eliminate 50% of their issues. Get people to not limp wrist, and you could eliminate another 25% of the issues. A bit of fluff and buff, and you could get rid of another 15%. I just had trigger work done on a firearm that cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and it's still not as nice of a da pull than my Kahr.

hardluk1
05-03-2015, 07:19 AM
I did no fluff and buff but I did look it over well and run it wet , I don't use the slide hold open as a release , I pull back and let go and even my 9 year old grandson can shoot his moms cw9 and with a smile on his face.

How would most of todays gun buyers ever get along before the internet and forums . Some of you old dogs remember those days .

Oh yea , you bought a firearm mostly with little knowledge and learned as you went . If you bought a 1911 you learned quickly how to tune mags to make them run and find the best lubes and cleaners and do some polishing . Plunk test your ammo to be sure it will fit and might work . With in reason that could hold true for most firearms . Look them over for burs, metal shavings , anything to tune or polish to help run smooth . So much of todays "problems " seems like a common sense issues . OR lack of !

I can still see guys show up at a forestry range I like to go to and watch a "shooter" pull a brand spanking new firearm from a box to shot and have problems . This is were a head shack icon goes .

TheTman
05-03-2015, 10:46 AM
I imagine the P380 did more damage to Kahr's reputation than any other gun from all the complaints I've seen on the board on all the models. The P380 seemed to have 3 or 4 complaints for every one for any other model at one time. I've bought 3 Kahrs, one I traded for car repairs before I got a chance to shoot it, but the other two have been fine. They need breaking in for 200 rounds at least. But my buddy's Kimber Crimson Carry II has over 500 rounds and still won't feed HP's. I think the 380's still cause the most grief with ammo selection and problems. I know my CM's slide was tighter than new convicts sphincter when it arrived. it's loosened up well after close to 200 rounds. It shot the last few mags with no problems so I've been carrying it. The Kahr has the perfect CC trigger for me and the CM is a great size to conceal and is comfortable to wear all day.

Streetkahr
05-03-2015, 02:22 PM
Deals like that are harder to find where I live, unfortunately. High quality used firearms at good prices fly off the shelf here really fast. I have seen only one used Kahr in about 4 years. It seems that people either tend to hang onto them or they sell within 48 hours. People here will go to gun shows with a pocket full of cash backed up with good negotiating skills, and jump all over the private sellers. At the shows, a quality firearm will be bought from a private seller within 15 minutes it seems. I had to buy my K9 new, but I still got a good deal because everybody wants the polymer pistols. Not me. I'm an older guy, and I prefer steel because it is faster to shoot, more pleasant to shoot, and I know I will practice with it more.

Streetkahr
05-03-2015, 03:54 PM
187911 (http://www.kahrtalk.com/member.php?15579-187911), where I live, the MK9 and P9 do not show up as used guns, so people are hanging on to them, as they seem to be hanging on to all Kahrs in general. Are you posting this out of online hear say or personal experience? Most Kahr complainers do not complete the break in. In the 70's, it was SOP that all handguns needed a 200 - 300 round break in followed by gunsmithing to get the pistol right, or a return for a repair or replacement if something was really wrong. Bad internal burrs were par for the course. IMO, shooters coming up since the 70's and 80's can sometimes have unrealistic expectations for out of the box functioning. I suspect that most Kahr complaints are from those who have not completed the break in. Even a J-frame revolver should have 200 rounds fired to ensure there is no manufacturing defect. All handgun makers can have issues. My friends with really expensive Kimbers seem to have the most problems, and those problems are after the break in. Break in the Kahr, return it for repair or exchange if there are manufacturing issues, and it will be as reliable or more so than any other premium pistol.

b4uqzme
05-03-2015, 04:02 PM
... and I know I will practice with it more.

Very, very wise. :yo:

hardluk1
05-03-2015, 04:19 PM
Streetkahr You hit the nail on the head with your last post .

Streetkahr
05-03-2015, 04:37 PM
hardluk1, I enjoyed your post. It was nostalgic. Yes, I remember the 70's and everything we had to do to get a 1911 to run well. They sometimes needed a gunsmith to do an internal deburring and other reliability work. I eventually went to the High Power and experienced better reliability, although they still needed ramp work and chamber work. My new K9 appears to have no internal burrs, and even appears to have a polished ramp and chamber. It looks to have the best fit and internal finish I have seen on any production 9mm pistol so far, and it needs no gunsmith work.

Barth
05-03-2015, 08:26 PM
hardluk1, I enjoyed your post. It was nostalgic. Yes, I remember the 70's and everything we had to do to get a 1911 to run well. They sometimes needed a gunsmith to do an internal deburring and other reliability work. I eventually went to the High Power and experienced better reliability, although they still needed ramp work and chamber work. My new K9 appears to have no internal burrs, and even appears to have a polished ramp and chamber. It looks to have the best fit and internal finish I have seen on any production 9mm pistol so far, and it needs no gunsmith work.

LOL
I'm excessive compulsive for those that don't know me.
Even though I loved my MK40 Elite.
I took it to my favorite gunsmith and asked him what he could do to make it better?
His answer? NOTHING.

Not really a surprise.

Streetkahr
05-03-2015, 08:57 PM
b4uqzme,

Yes, I think so. So many new shooters are buying really small light polymer frame pistols for pocket carry then rarely shoot them due to hand sting. From what I have observed, most of those pistols never even get broken in. I'm old school. Wear it in a holster where it can be drawn quickly, and shoot at least 50 rounds per month to stay sharp. At home, practice holster draws and dry firing to never get rusty. Steel rules. Ferro Veritas (In Steel There Is Truth).

Streetkahr
05-03-2015, 09:08 PM
Streetkahr You hit the nail on the head with your last post .

Thanks, Just an old guy's perspective. I remember hearing things like, "I just bought a new Series 70 Gov't Model. I only had one FTF and two FTEs in the first 100 rounds with hardball. I have fired 300 more rounds with no problem. What a reliable gun!" The whole concept of break in seems to have been lost. Nothing has changed except that expectations have become more unrealistic.

Ferro Veritas, In Steel There Is Truth

Streetkahr
05-03-2015, 10:40 PM
Isn't it great when a gunsmith cannot find anything that a pistol needs? I remember when people were sinking more than the cost of the gun into a 1911 with a gunsmith. Since this is my first K9, and my first Kahr, it is a surprise to me. I initially wanted an Elite or blackened stainless K9, but this new standard K9 with night sights was such a good deal that I went for it after thinking about it for 4 days. It was not an easy decision to trade the 3" barreled SP-101 that I really loved, but I think I made a good decision. I had smoothed the Ruger trigger with 2 years of dry firing, but it still needed some trigger work in order to run faster than NRA Timed Fire, and it badly needed different sights to be really useful. My K9 appears to need nothing at all. Back in the day, a pistol might have needed $1000 of work to bring it to the quality of a K9, and there was still nothing in 9mm that small except for the super expensive custom ASP. I am still surprised to see a steel pistol of this high level of quality these days. The K9 is a great deal and will run faster than a polymer frame of similar size or smaller especially with +P. At close range, speed is everything.

Ferro Veritas (In Steel There Is Truth)


LOL
I'm excessive compulsive for those that don't know me.
Even though I loved my MK40 Elite.
I took it to my favorite gunsmith and asked him what he could do to make it better?
His answer? NOTHING.

Not really a surprise.

Pointblank
05-04-2015, 05:37 AM
If you read any brand-specific gun forum you will mainly see complaints. They are mostly from people who don't clean a gun before going to the range, run the cheapest ammo they can find and don't know a thing about proper grip and marksmanship.

muggsy
05-04-2015, 06:35 AM
b4uqzme,

Yes, I think so. So many new shooters are buying really small light polymer frame pistols for pocket carry then rarely shoot them due to hand sting. From what I have observed, most of those pistols never even get broken in. I'm old school. Wear it in a holster where it can be drawn quickly, and shoot at least 50 rounds per month to stay sharp. At home, practice holster draws and dry firing to never get rusty. Steel rules. Ferro Veritas (In Steel There Is Truth).

+1 on the fifty rounds per month. I like to shoot 50 rounds a week. That's how I stay sharp and why I reload my ammunition.

Armybrat
05-04-2015, 09:22 AM
If you read any brand-specific gun forum you will mainly see complaints. They are mostly from people who don't clean a gun before going to the range, run the cheapest ammo they can find and don't know a thing about proper grip and marksmanship.

That's right. If I relied on Internet comments to influence the purchase of a firearm, I'd probably just carry a rock.

berettabone
05-04-2015, 09:24 AM
I have heard that the rocks these days aren't as good as in the past....................they are harder to find, not as round, and some are being hoarded by collectors.:p

Bawanna
05-04-2015, 09:59 AM
Had a friend lock himself out of his car in the sewer of downtown Seattle. Me being the fix it guy called to rescue his sorry backside I approached it in my usual systimatical order.

You know how hard it is to find a rock in downtown Seattle? Ended up I had to use a tire iron to bust that damn window.

muggsy
05-04-2015, 11:24 AM
Jocko once was locked in a convertible with the top down and couldn't get out. Go figure.

ltxi
05-04-2015, 03:47 PM
I have heard that the rocks these days aren't as good as in the past....................they are harder to find, not as round, and some are being hoarded by collectors.:p

It's true. Noticed this last September when rock collecting in Maine. At first I thought it was just me but there are discussions about it on the Rock Collectors forum. The consensus seems to be it's due to global warming.

Streetkahr
05-04-2015, 04:54 PM
If you read any brand-specific gun forum you will mainly see complaints. They are mostly from people who don't clean a gun before going to the range, run the cheapest ammo they can find and don't know a thing about proper grip and marksmanship.

That is dead on. It is the same thing that I have observed.

Armybrat
05-04-2015, 05:11 PM
Anybody here have a technique to properly fluff & buff a chunk of limestone?

Streetkahr
05-04-2015, 05:28 PM
I have heard that the rocks these days aren't as good as in the past....................they are harder to find, not as round, and some are being hoarded by collectors.:p
Ever notice how hard it is these days to find a good Kydex holster for a good rock or stick? Looks like everything is going downhill. I can't even find a good Kydex holster for my Viking sword or axe! Looks like I am stuck with my K9. Damn this whole progress thing.

b4uqzme
05-04-2015, 06:03 PM
I have heard that the rocks these days aren't as good as in the past....................they are harder to find, not as round, and some are being hoarded by collectors.:p

They certainly don't make them like they used to. :rolleyes:

GROTMAN
05-04-2015, 06:53 PM
They certainly don't make them like they used to. :rolleyes:

I think that's because now they are made in China. :rolleyes:

Ron AZ
05-04-2015, 07:09 PM
I imagine the P380 did more damage to Kahr's reputation than any other gun from all the complaints I've seen on the board on all the models. The P380 seemed to have 3 or 4 complaints for every one for any other model at one time. I've bought 3 Kahrs, one I traded for car repairs before I got a chance to shoot it, but the other two have been fine. They need breaking in for 200 rounds at least. But my buddy's Kimber Crimson Carry II has over 500 rounds and still won't feed HP's. I think the 380's still cause the most grief with ammo selection and problems. I know my CM's slide was tighter than new convicts sphincter when it arrived. it's loosened up well after close to 200 rounds. It shot the last few mags with no problems so I've been carrying it. The Kahr has the perfect CC trigger for me and the CM is a great size to conceal and is comfortable to wear all day.

TheTman hit the nail on the head and is consistent with my experience. Bought a used PM9, supposedly only a few months old, and it has been flawless, and I do mean FLAWLESS, whatever I did, whatever ammo I chose, or how many rounds I ran through it in a single session (150 or so?) without cleaning. It is my reliable go to CCW.

The steep feed ramp angles in a small gun makes a difference in the .380's. Bought both a used P380 and a new P380. Both ended up back at Kahr to get running right. But Kahr stood behind them and made them right. Now, with appropriate ammo and mag selection (6 rounder), both are great and fun to shoot and my pocket carry choice. A glitch (like a stovepipe or premature slide lock back) now is a rarity and only ever after running 75-100 rounds through at the range and the gun is dirty.

Bought a used PM40 also. It was about 5 years old, and stored in unknown conditions here in the AZ heat. All 3 mag followers were bad. Kahr sent me new ones free and told me to send the gun back if I had any failure of those. Gun and mag followers were fine until I sold it (because I like the PM9 better in that size gun).

thefirearmguy
05-09-2015, 09:02 PM
Ive owned several Kahrs and still own four Kahrs. I haven't had anything but quality from them. My friends who own Kahr have had good luck with them. If people make their judgments based on breaking the gun in then their inexperience is showing. I've carried my CM9 for over four years and it has been excellent.

WMD
05-13-2015, 08:28 AM
Hmmmm.... so let me see if I got this right.... Go to a non-Kahr forum and ask how reliable a Kahr is.... then...., come to the Kahr forum and tell everyone the negative feedback you heard.

Were you afraid you were not going to get the true story here? Do you believe you got the true story there?

The only entity that can tell you exactly how reliable a product is, is the MFG. I doubt seriously that any MFG will tell you what % of guns are returned from the total sold. That being said, I would take a guess however, that the % of guns returned is pretty low for most any MFG. As someone already pointed out on this forum, You typically only hear the bad on forums. There are a TON of folks out there with good experiences. I am one of those folks. No glitches with my PM9 right out of the box. I was told by a Kahr rep that the steel guns are pretty much bullet proof (no pun intended) and are not seen in their service area too often.

187911
05-13-2015, 10:36 AM
Hmmmm.... so let me see if I got this right.... Go to a non-Kahr forum and ask how reliable a Kahr is.... then...., come to the Kahr forum and tell everyone the negative feedback you heard.

Were you afraid you were not going to get the true story here? Do you believe you got the true story there?

The only entity that can tell you exactly how reliable a product is, is the MFG. I doubt seriously that any MFG will tell you what % of guns are returned from the total sold. That being said, I would take a guess however, that the % of guns returned is pretty low for most any MFG. As someone already pointed out on this forum, You typically only hear the bad on forums. There are a TON of folks out there with good experiences. I am one of those folks. No glitches with my PM9 right out of the box. I was told by a Kahr rep that the steel guns are pretty much bullet proof (no pun intended) and are not seen in their service area too often.

Almost right. I didn't ask how reliable Kahrs were on the other forum. I was given unsolicited information on that subject and I read some post on this site that backed some of their claims up. Yes, you might hear more bad press on forums depending on the firearm, but if several unrelated people are complaining about having the same issues, I tend to pay attention and investigate. You also tend to hear mostly good press on product specific forums, which is why I came here to get both sides of the story and clarification on the specific issues that they brought to my attention, e.i., if frame cracks, magazine issues and breakage, etc were fix or if they still were an issue...

I bit the bullet and purchase a used K9 a week ago though, but I haven't shot it yet. Heard mostly good reviews on the K9 though, so I'm not too worried about it.

Bawanna
05-13-2015, 10:56 AM
187911,

You got nothing to worry about on your K9. Of all the models Kahr produces the K9 is probably the crown prince of the bunch.

If you have issues and it's highly unlikely there's lots of help here to make a plan to cure it.

rwfishman
05-25-2015, 08:15 AM
Good Morning!

I'm about to purchase a NIB, never fired CW380 and have a couple of questions:
1. If it does need warranty work does Kahr really question if you're the first owner or not? I know S&W that has a FANTASTIC customer service department CAN ask that question, but never does (unless the firearm is very old) and they've taken back many a 2nd/3rd owner gun for warranty repair.

2. I'm not sure how old my particular CW380 is, only that the person selling it has extremely positive feedback from other buyers and sellers he worked with, so I'm confident that it is unused. BUT is there a certain serial number that is considered safe from the defects that have been issues with the CW380 series? Is there anything I can look fore on the frame or slide that should be a red flag to me?

I plan on being as detailed as possible on following the break in instruction and information given on these posts, but if someone could answer these questions it would be helpful to me.

Looking forward to your replies! Thanks!

Earle
05-25-2015, 10:42 AM
I'll throw this in FWIW. I did my research before buying my CM9. I asked the clerk at the LGS (which, incidentally, is highly respected and has a substantial presence on the net and customers driving from quite a radius to buy here) how often the Kahrs were returned. He'd told that they wanted it returned to them to send back, if necessary, because it helps them keep tabs on problem models, etc. I like this clerk. He's an older retired guy and I've bought from him before. In fact, I was trading in a S&W Semi which was a good gun, just not concealable at all. When I asked him how many Kahrs were returned. He looked puzzled and said he couldn't think of any offhand. I believe him to be a straight-up guy. This is a high-volume store. In fact, the complaint you hear most often is the crowding issue. I then asked him if he frequented the net and gun forums very much, and he replied that he didn't. Perhaps the net is the real problem...

SlowBurn
05-25-2015, 11:27 AM
1. If it does need warranty work does Kahr really question if you're the first owner or not?
Not that I ever heard of. Kahr serviced my used P380 once and another time swapped out a mag for me. Both times reply to my email inquiry was just "Use this the RMA label. We'll take care of it."

BTW, I think Earle's post hits the nail on the head.

DanTana
05-25-2015, 01:08 PM
Remember the squeaky wheel always gets the grease.

OldFatGuy
05-25-2015, 01:20 PM
I've been squeaking all my life, no grease, just grief!

Bawanna
05-25-2015, 02:40 PM
I've been squeaking all my life, no grease, just grief!

My long lost brother from the same mother. Say hi to mom for me when you see her.

Gotta go, time for my mid day flogging.

Barth
05-25-2015, 03:02 PM
187911,

You got nothing to worry about on your K9. Of all the models Kahr produces the K9 is probably the crown prince of the bunch.

If you have issues and it's highly unlikely there's lots of help here to make a plan to cure it.

+1
The K9 is sweet and has been for a long time.
What would Jocko say?
Shoot the )((*&_ and stop worrying - LOL!