Spanish S&W copy, .32-20 cal

[Pancho_Villa]

Got this gun from an old guy around town that brings me stuff from time to time. His brother had it and the bro died. It was his grandfather's gun. Now the nephew wants it fixed. It's probably one of the many Spanish copies of the Orbea revolvers that were common in Spain before and around WWII. Looks like a broken mainspring, broken or missing trigger return spring, and a weak or missing hand spring. It still indexes correctly when you can get the hand to turn the cylinder, bore is nice, overall @ 80% finish. Got some info on the Orbea, but no parts schematics. Not even Numrich Gun Parts lists anything.

Anyone got some info?

http://www.bersaforum.com/images/1/1/8/thumb2_78-355.jpg (http://www.bersaforum.com/images/1/1/8/78-355.jpg)

http://www.bersaforum.com/images/1/1/8/79-356.jpg

Maybe someone can make out the grip markings or the barrel marks. I can't see well. Wife said it was from Spain as did the owner. The .32-20 is visible the wife said. I can't see it.

http://www.bersaforum.com/images/1/1/8/thumb2_81-358.jpg (http://www.bersaforum.com/images/1/1/8/81-358.jpg)

[marcinstl]

here's a link to google--- https://www.google.com/search?q=spanish+S%26W+.32-20&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
also see, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32-20_Winchester this is an old blackpowder round, .32" bullet(115gr.?) with 20 grains of blackpowder. check with an ammo company to see if something is available for this gun. check with the guys on the S&W forum, maybe it will chamber .32 S&W longs or shorts.
here's a 1957shep video for ya, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KESXFRkfQHc
good luck, have fun.

[muggsy]

It was manufactured in Eibar Spain. It appears to be a Spanish Model 1924 and was probably manufactured sometime between 1924 and 1930. I don't go back quite that far and that's about the best that I can do for ya. I can't make out the top line on the barrel from your picture.

[Pancho_Villa]

Thanks muggsy. I had a buddy 30 years ago that had one of these. We would fire .32 longs & Shorts out of it when there were not .32-20s. The cases would swell up cause the other case is more narrow and tapered.

I was just looking for info on a total strip. Like schematics & or pars litst. Probably not much on it. Someone advised that E-bay had parts lists, but I ain't checked yet.

[gb6491]

....

I was just looking for info on a total strip. Like schematics & or pars litst. Probably not much on it. Someone advised that E-bay had parts lists, but I ain't checked yet.
To quote Forrest Gump "Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." Then, I'd add "till you pull the side plate off." to that
If you scroll down to just below mid page here: http://www.tirmaillyforum.com/mildot/viewtopic.php?t=166309 there is a cut-away drawing of an Orbea revolver.
It's not the same model as the yours, but the lock work looks very S&W to me.
Then there is this: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/forum/Hand-Guns/Hand-Guns/Orbea38-236647.htm This Orbea that has lock work that looks like a hybrid of Colt and S&W.
Regards,
Greg

[marcinstl]

"till you pull the side plate off."
hehehehehe, I like that.
(I'm ordering a new yoke screw for my mdl.36 S&W. those things just fling themselves out of the gun so somebody at the factory glued this one in with red locktite. not like anybody ever takes the cylinder out for a 500 round cleaning. gunsmithing, hmmmph! not nearly as much fun as shooting.)

Pancho, this can be fun, go on a search for a gunsmith in your area (100 mile radius?). do a google search for the obvious ones. then ask around at gun shops, gun shows for the ones you find by word of mouth. some of these guys have tons of parts, maybe some deals, some good stories to listen to, who knows. have fun.

[Pancho_Villa]

Thanks guys. Would have had the sideplate off already if it had one. Had enough Colt & S&W sideplates off to know what a sideplate looks like. There are not enough screws to hold a plate down.

There are 2 pins at each end of the trigger guard/frame. Guts appear to come out the bottom, maybe as an assembly. There are only 3 screws right below the cylinder on the right side of the receiver and I assume one is for the crane. The others may hold stuff on the inside, not holding a side plate. Only other screw is through the hammer. Just kinda figure it all comes out the bottom & top like some of the top break I.Js, H &Rs, Forehands, etc. Yeah, I fix those too.

Nearest thing to a gunsmith within a hundred miles is me. That is why they brought it here. Other guy 40 miles away died of old age 20 years ago. He was a "real" gunsmith, drill & tap, cut & recrown, change barrels etc. Other guy that was 80 miles away retired or died. Last time I was there I asked them for bullet lube for a Lyman 450 sizer/luber. The guy said, "What's that." Only 2 or 3 shops within 100 miles might take firearms for service, but only name brand stuff. Not done in house either.

I will work on the little single shot shotguns, pot metal pistolas and .22s these guys have around here that are 3 generations old and held together with nails & electrical or masking tape. They know I have glaucoma and can't do it well anymore, but they still bring them to me. No one at a shop will touch hese guns. These guys ain't gonna drive 70 miles in any direction just to get sent home or talked into buying something new. Most of their vehicles won't make it if they could afford the gas to get there. I'm the nearest thing to a gunshop in a 70 mile radius and they trust me to work on their clunkers & heirlooms. I don't charge them. I would have to charge them more than their guns are worth. Guess I could take some chickens or food in trade.

Was at a gunshow over the weekend. Most of the new guys didn't know there were Spanish S&W copies. Only the old guys like me had seen one before. They told me to throw it away and buy a new Kahr, Ruger, or Smith. plastic gun. No gun parts there. Nearest show with any would be 200 miles away and I can't drive, so I can't get there anymore.

Thanks for the links. I will check them out.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ it still sounds like fun Pancho. Enjoy!

[muggsy]

I wouldn't invest a lot of time or money into that hand held IED. It's likely to blow up in your hand. It's probably only worth about $125 tops. Keep it as a wall hanger.

[gb6491]

There's a solid frame Orbea revolver on GB, that has photos of it assembled and with all the frame parts removed. It doesn't appear to be the exact model as the Pancho's, but might be worth a look. The action parts don't seem too complicated and perhaps the the seller might give some insight as to dis-assembly/assembly.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=484461675
Regards,
Greg

You might find some help here: http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?40-The-Spanish-Pistol-Board

[Pancho_Villa]

Haven't had a chance to check the links yet. Been cutting grass and trimming limbs cause of all the rain we have had here. Got 4 acres to do and by the time I get through , I have to start again. Yesterday, I spent all day with the wife at the doctor out of town. More limb cutting today. Might get to the gun & links tonight. The other 18 acres out here looks a a mesquite rain forest.

Hope i can see enough of it do get an idea. The hammer spring is clearly broken. It looks similar to a spring from a Colt Dic Special, Police Post. or Official Police.

However, the owner told me his brother "knda took it apart some, " so I don't know what else he could hve done to it or left out of it.

Thanks again.

[marcinstl]

ah! your making me crazy with that "mesquite rain forest". if I was younger I'd drive down and help you for a truck load to bring back to STL. we actually pay for mesquite here in Mo. see! now I need me some brisket. dang, I'll be thinking about a big chunk of crusty brisket all day. hehehehehe. good luck. (mesquite will still be there tomorrow, go shooting today, be retired, enjoy.)

[Pancho_Villa]

ah! your making me crazy with that "mesquite rain forest". if I was younger I'd drive down and help you for a truck load to bring back to STL. we actually pay for mesquite here in Mo. see! now I need me some brisket. dang, I'll be thinking about a big chunk of crusty brisket all day. hehehehehe. good luck. (mesquite will still be there tomorrow, go shooting today, be retired, enjoy.)

We had been in a drought for @ 4 years and the mesquite didn't mind much. It was still growing. But as soon as it rains, it just grows like crazy. D@mn stuff is invasive as hell. But it sure does make for good brisket. I use it the lazy Mexican way. Large brisket for @ 2 hours over the mesquite grill. Then 4-5 hours in the oven on low @ 275. Works just as well and ya don't have to check it as much.

Rained lightly this morning, but there were bad storum from @ 40 miles north of here and up the coast. So, I was out there trimming some mesquite from the fenceline later in the afternoon.

[Pancho_Villa]

There's a solid frame Orbea revolver on GB, that has photos of it assembled and with all the frame parts removed. It doesn't appear to be the exact model as the Pancho's, but might be worth a look. The action parts don't seem too complicated and perhaps the the seller might give some insight as to dis-assembly/assembly.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=484461675
Regards,
Greg

You might find some help here: http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?40-The-Spanish-Pistol-Board

Muy bueno compadre!!!!! looks like the stripped .38 Orbea is what I needed to verify what I expected if I tore it down. The large "V" spring behind the frame in the last pic is what broke on this gun. It will be near impossible to find one unless someone tears a gun down for parts like they did the .38.

Numrich doesn't appear to have any. May just call the owner up and advise him of the situation. Tearing it down further without any replacement parts is kinda a waste of time.

Thanks for the help.

[DeaconKC]

PM Popeye at www.surplusrifleforum.com he may be able to help you.