CM9 has been perfect- Would getting a PM9 be foolish? UPDATE***Got a PM45-BIG MISTAKE

[Sparx]

I've had my CM9 now for about 3 weeks, put over 725 rounds of all kinds of 9mm through it with zero issues. :D Trigger is smoother than it was when new, just all good. I certainly hope all buyers of a CM9 have the same experience.

I am considering getting a PM9, but this could be redundant. The front site and the polygonal rifling are the only two differences along with some upgrade finish are all I know is different.
Maybe this is a silly idea!

Of course if I decide I don't need both guns, I could sell off the CM9, heck I would offer a money back function guarantee since it shoots anything I put in it.

Sparx

[berettabone]

IMHO, it would be redundant. BUT............it's your denaro. I am so happy with my MK, that I like to try out different manufacturers besides Kahr. Most forum members had numerous firearms at their disposal(until the boating accident). I don't know if this is your only firearm, but I like to try different makers. If I were to purchase another Kahr, it would probably be a T series or a K series.

[Rubb]

I couldn't resist getting a CM9 even though I had a PM9.
I took 6 months before I traded the PM for an XDS45.
The CM is still my constant companion.
Around 1K rounds, 1 broken follower @ 100....no issues whatsoever since!
IMO - go for the CM45 :D

[Bawanna]

Rubb has a good plan. Cover the caliber bases.

[JohnR]

Yup, I'd get the .45 version to go with the 9. That's what I did, and a funny thing happened - I stopped thinking about trying other carry guns.

[Sparx]

I do have a variety of pistols and rifles.
I have the SA xds .45, S&W Shield 9mm, S&W compact 9mm, SA compact xdm .45, and then a 1911 les baer, s&w 642, and a few others including High Standard .22s.

How much more recoil in a CM45, the 9 is mild as I see it.
Sparx

[AnthonyC]

I would get the CW45 rather than the CM45. The CW45 can accept 1911 magazines and a larger grip to manage the recoil. Or, and this would be my first choice, a P380. You already have the 9mm and .45 calibers well covered. The Kahr P380 would give a truly pocket sized gun that can disappear in nearly any holster or pocket for those nonpermissive environments.
Just my 2 cents.

[JohnR]

Recoil of the PM45 is a lot less than one would expect. I haven't shot it side by side with my CM9 but I don't think it's a whole lot different.

[yqtszhj]

Recoil of the PM45 is a lot less than one would expect. I haven't shot it side by side with my CM9 but I don't think it's a whole lot different.
I agree with this statenent 100%.

[SmokyT]

I've had my CM9 now for about 3 weeks, put over 725 rounds of all kinds of 9mm through it with zero issues. :D Trigger is smoother than it was when new, just all good. I certainly hope all buyers of a CM9 have the same experience.

I am considering getting a PM9, but this could be redundant. The front site and the polygonal rifling are the only two differences along with some upgrade finish are all I know is different.
Maybe this is a silly idea!

Of course if I decide I don't need both guns, I could sell off the CM9, heck I would offer a money back function guarantee since it shoots anything I put in it.

Sparx

No, I don't think it's foolish or redundant. You would be just "upgrading" your CM9 to a PM9 (if you sell the CM9 once you get a PM9, which is a nicer gun). If you look for a deal, you can actually get a factory new PM9 for less than the MSRP for CM9.

[Sparx]

Well I got a PM45 and I really do regret it.

New gun, cleaned and lubed it, just as my cm9, and it is a real jam-o-matic.
I get stove pipes, failure to fully eject, failure to strip a round off a fresh fully loaded magazine, and premature slide hold open.

Got the gun off GB, tried 2 of the 3 magazines that came with the gun, one is some better than the other but neither works well. I also noticed it is hard to seat the loaded magazines in the pistol.

Have to say the pm45 shoots easy and is accurate as hell. I fired 3 types of ammo, PPU 230 ball, 185 hollow point and 230 grain ball Blazer. Odd, the hollow point feeds better than the ball. Too many jams to count.

I looked at Kahr's website seems the buyer gets stuck paying the return shipping for warranty service.

Does anyone know what this $40.00 penalty Kahr states on the website if you ship ground? Anyone here have input on returning a gun to Kahr? Best I know there is no law against ground shipping, but I think this is a shipper policy.

sparx

[b4uqzme]

Sorry about your issue. Be nice but be persistent. Explain your problem as clearly as possible. Kahr should send you a shipping label. Good luck.

Or I got a CM45 that runs fine. Maybe we could work out a trade? :)

[Bawanna]

I've never heard of the 40 dollar penalty but it is a shipping requirement to ship overnight for private parties.

Just a week ago I took an officers gun to an FFL to ship for him to Birdsong for some finish work. Last time he shipped himself and it was like 70 bucks or more, the FFL shipped it for like 14 bucks.

I'd certainly call as b4 suggested and seek a label but if not have an FFL ship it for you.

Is this a new PM45? Mine has neve had issues other than early on I discovered my handloads were just a tad bit long and got stuck. Other than that it runs like a Swiss Kahr.

[Sparx]

Yes the pistol was brand new and has a lot of issues. I noticed while cleaning it again today the front section of the slide rail on the frame does not look true and smooth.
I will call Kahr tomorrow and explain this to them.

The gun was produced October 2013, when things were still frantic due to Sandy Hook killings.
Sparx

[JohnR]

On the underside of the slide, does the stripper bar have a bevel, or is it machined to a 90 degree angle? Mine had a 90 deg. angle, where it should be beveled (chamfered). A quick buzz with a dremel fixed all its feeding issues.

[Bawanna]

That could very well be it right there.

Post up a picture of the bottom of the slide, also the frame rails you mention.

Might be an easy fix.

[wyntrout]

The bevel, the notch, and the slide lock spring should be checked. See the CW45 and other problems in the stickies. My PM45 had problems from day one and went back a total of 5 times, though one was to replace the poorly engraved slide that I got on the second trip back.

The first was the lack of a bevel on the forward lower part of the frame that serves as the stripper to strip the next round from the magazine.

Another problem is the lack of a machined half-moon in the receptacle for the front part of the Recoil Spring Assembly that allows the RSA to move up and down freely as the barrel does during firing.

If the screw holding the washer and spring down on the slide release lever is not tight, that can cause several problems. Caution, though, the steel screw is threaded into plastic and the frame threads can be stripped, necessitating a new frame!

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?14749-CW45-%28and-other-poly-45%29-issues-and-fixes

There are many tips there in Greg's post.

Wynn :)

[Sparx]

Ok here are images.
Note the fuzzy strands under the frame rail at the front.
sparx

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/kahr%2006%20015/xxIMG_6431.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/kahr%2006%20015/xxIMG_6430.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/kahr%2006%20015/xxIMG_6428.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/kahr%2006%20015/xxIMG_6435.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/kahr%2006%20015/xxIMG_6433.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/kahr%2006%20015/xxIMG_6432.jpg

[JohnR]

The bar is beveled. Those rails sure look bad.

[Sparx]

Called Kahr, and the rep behaved like he didn't really give a darn about any of my issues.

No return label offered, must go overnight on my dime.

Well I have one nice CM9 and this PM45, but that's it for me with Kahr's. I will stick with S&W and Springfield Armory due to superior customer service policies.
sparx

[DavidR]

Call back. You shouldn't have to pay to return a gun that is defective. I wouldn't be nasty but I wouldn't be nice either.

[b4uqzme]

Some people just have a knack for handling these types of calls and getting cooperation from service departments. Having been in sales and service my entire career I can actually read from some posts how some would find it difficult. I agree it's not easy. Nobody's looking for a lesson so let me just say this: Be nice! Nobody wants to have their product or performance compared to another brand or company. Work WITH the service advisor not against them and you will probably get what you need. Good luck!

[Sparx]

Some people just have a knack for handling these types of calls and getting cooperation from service departments. Having been in sales and service my entire career I can actually read from some posts how some would find it difficult. I agree it's not easy. Nobody's looking for a lesson so let me just say this: Be nice! Nobody wants to have their product or performance compared to another brand or company. Work WITH the service advisor not against them and you will probably get what you need. Good luck!

I was nice, never made a negative comment about their products and used a positive tone. I explained what was going on, and there is a LOT of issues with this gun, mentioned it failed to pick up a round off a fresh full magazine, and the rep replied "How are you releasing the slide?", implying I was the idiot that does not know how to operate a pistol. I explained that 95% of the time I released the slide using the slide stop lever, and tried the slide pull back method in an attempt to see it the gun would work.

I ran 198 rounds through this gun, as round count went up the gun got worse and worse.
On the phone I never complained harshly, I even mentioned I was extremely happy with my Kahr CM9 that has about 800 rounds of 100% reliable operation, the rep could care less.

I have dealt with S&W, Springfield Armory, Ruger, Glock, and one other I cannot recall, and they have all been more than graceful and have sent labels. Yes, I have been in and out of a lot of guns over the years, best service and lack of need for service is S&W and Springfield Armory.

This pistol is a fricking train wreck, I even had one situation where I had a live round in the chamber with a full mag inserted, and a misfire and I could not pull the slide back to extract the round, I have no idea what the hell happened there.

I ran my own business for 34 years or so, if a customer of mine had an issue with my wiring, I was there to correct the problem within 24 hours or less, because I gave a chit.

sparx

[b4uqzme]

Understood and I can feel your frustration. Some of us who have been supplying service all our lives are the hardest to receive service...because we expect the same excellent service we give. Regardless, sometimes our frustrations are received as negativity and that can break down the process. Maybe you are better off getting an FFL to send it for you at a discounted rate (as advised by others). Once Kahr recognizes your train wreck of issues, they might just step up. Bottom line = you need your pistol fixed. If everyone cooperates, it gets done.

P.S. Just imagine how many guns get sent back with absolutely nothing wrong with them and how that impacts a company's costs, branding, etc. Imagine if there were online forums about your company where people could log in and vent whether you deserve it or not. It's good to take a couple steps in the others' shoes.

Hope I'm not just fanning the flames. I really do wish you and others in your position the best.

[Sparx]

And one more thing.

Years ago I was an FFL dealer.
From my experience it is NOT the BATF's policy that an individual must ship a handgun back to a factory for repair using overnight service.

I called Kahr again, just a while ago to try for a different approach to return this gun AKA "POS". I was told it HAD to go overnight shipper (Non-USPS) because "this is the BATF regulation." Unfortunately that is a flat out lie.

I called the BATF just now, spoke with an agent, and the law stands as it did when I held my FFL back in the 90's. The agent informed me that the BATF only requires that you ship using a private shipper, (meaning not the USPS), and that there are NO OTHER REQUIREMENTS.

So, it comes down to the fact that the shippers (UPS FedEx) have instituted a policy of their own, to line their pockets with MORE CASH, and is using a fabricated BATF rule to cover for it. Legally a pistol could be shipped Fed Ex or UPS ground back to the factory, and NO FEDERAL LAW would be violated. This carrier policy is BS, and a simple way to make life difficult for gun owners, like us, and fill their deep pockets at the same time with cash.

When I talked to Kahr not too long ago, about providing me with a return label, they just stated their warranty policy and blew me off. That's OK because I have purchased my very last Kahr, and plan to inform other gun owners of Kahr's intolerable customer service.

Sparx

[b4uqzme]

...Hope I'm not just fanning the flames...

I guess I was. My sincerest apologies.

[jocko]

And one more thing.

Years ago I was an FFL dealer.
From my experience it is NOT the BATF's policy that an individual must ship a handgun back to a factory for repair using overnight service.

I called Kahr again, just a while ago to try for a different approach to return this gun AKA "POS". I was told it HAD to go overnight shipper (Non-USPS) because "this is the BATF regulation." Unfortunately that is a flat out lie.

I called the BATF just now, spoke with an agent, and the law stands as it did when I held my FFL back in the 90's. The agent informed me that the BATF only requires that you ship using a private shipper, (meaning not the USPS), and that there are NO OTHER REQUIREMENTS.

So, it comes down to the fact that the shippers (UPS FedEx) have instituted a policy of their own, to line their pockets with MORE CASH, and is using a fabricated BATF rule to cover for it. Legally a pistol could be shipped Fed Ex or UPS ground back to the factory, and NO FEDERAL LAW would be violated. This carrier policy is BS, and a simple way to make life difficult for gun owners, like us, and fill their deep pockets at the same time with cash.

When I talked to Kahr not too long ago, about providing me with a return label, they just stated their warranty policy and blew me off. That's OK because I have purchased my very last Kahr, and plan to inform other gun owners of Kahr's intolerable customer service.

Sparx

i HAD TO SHIP MY FAMOUS PMJ9 back to kahr a few months agon for a ramp job. I sent it UPS and addressed it K. A. I. and when asked what it was I told them a broken high speed hole punch. Cost me $12.50. No next day sh!t or anything but got there in 3 days. Kahr shipped it back to me prepaid. SEND IT UPS and put it in a big box and if u tell them it is a gun, they will demand overnite shippng at $50 plus, that is their policy and they are ripping us off. so just tell them it is a broken hold punch. they wont even knwo by that address of K. A. I either. Senbt alot of Highg speed hole unches in my day and never an issue... Or ask ur trusty ffl dealer if he will send it back for you. He can mail regular mail...

[Sparx]

i HAD TO SHIP MY FAMOUS PMJ9 back to kahr a few months agon for a ramp job. I sent it UPS and addressed it K. A. I. and when asked what it was I told them a broken high speed hole punch. Cost me $12.50. No next day sh!t or anything but got there in 3 days. Kahr shipped it back to me prepaid. SEND IT UPS and put it in a big box and if u tell them it is a gun, they will demand overnite shippng at $50 plus, that is their policy and they are ripping us off. so just tell them it is a broken hold punch. they wont even knwo by that address of K. A. I either. Senbt alot of Highg speed hole unches in my day and never an issue...

I am with you on this one. Anyone who ships frequently has noticed in the last year how much shipping has gone up across the board. Funny that oil and gasoline are way down in price.
Sparx

[Dreams_of_Steel]

Call again and see if another rep will send you a prepaid mailing label. I had to send a brand new T9 back, they ended up replacing the frame due to a misaligned slide stop hole. They sent me a link for a pre-paid label that I printed from Fedex's website. They should do this for you as well. If not, send me a private message and I will share a direct email address with you in hopes of some resolution.