Bolt rifles

[JohnR]

I have a hankerin' for a bolt rifle. No reason, I just haven't fired one so it's another box to tick off, I guess. And since I traded my Mini 30 toward an MP15 Sporter I have a thousand rounds of 7.62x39 begging to be disposed of in some fashion.

So...

The CZ 527 is very nice, feels good in the hand, but about $200 more expensive than the Zastava/Century Arms M85. I haven't seen the Zastava in person nor can I find them online, but the reviews are ok.

I figure I can buy the rifle, shoot all the ammo, then sell the rifle once I get the Mini Mauser action out of my system. I can't think of any reason to keep it, since I have a Ruger 10/22, an M1 Garand, and the MP15 for any long range shooting needs.

[b4uqzme]

I can vouch for the CZ. You won't be disappointed.

[Bawanna]

Everybody should have at least one bolt rifle in a real caliber. I'm really still a bolt rifle guy myself.

I only have one CZ, my little 452 Trainer a 22 but you wouldn't go wrong with a CZ.

I'm really impressed with most of the Savage stuff, kindo of economy stuff but it shoots right up there with the big boys.

I doubt the mini mauser action will ever go away for you once you get bonded with one.

[JohnR]

That's what I'm afraid of, an eternal bond. The Ruger bolt guns in the lower price ranges feel kind of cheesy, they don't inspire me.

[Bawanna]

I love Ruger revolvers a lot, I'm not a big fan of their semi auto pistols.

I had a Model 77 bolt rifle which was a nice gun in 338 Win Mag, it was a nice heavy rifle that helped alot with that round.

But I'm not a big fan of many of their models, the American or whatever does not sing to me.

Many of the Remington (also not one of my favorites) and Winchesters (my all time favorites) are kind of cheesy now days too.

Lost of choices out there, only your wallet can limit your options.

[Streetkahr]

I have a hankerin' for a bolt rifle. No reason, I just haven't fired one so it's another box to tick off, I guess. And since I traded my Mini 30 toward an MP15 Sporter I have a thousand rounds of 7.62x39 begging to be disposed of in some fashion.

So...

The CZ 527 is very nice, feels good in the hand, but about $200 more expensive than the Zastava/Century Arms M85. I haven't seen the Zastava in person nor can I find them online, but the reviews are ok.

I figure I can buy the rifle, shoot all the ammo, then sell the rifle once I get the Mini Mauser action out of my system. I can't think of any reason to keep it, since I have a Ruger 10/22, an M1 Garand, and the MP15 for any long range shooting needs.

The Zastava can be had. It is tricky to find online because searches want to pull up the Century PAP M85 AK, so you have to play around with the search syntax.

They are in stock here with limited quantity for $369.95
http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-m85-223-bolt-action-mini-mauser-rifle,-cai-yugo-import.-new.-p-6938.html
Impact Guns also has them in stock but they are charging almost $427.
http://www.impactguns.com/zastava-m85-inmini-mauserin-bolt-action-rifle-cal-762x39mm-ri1975-n.aspx

This is a better value than the CZ version, which I have thought about buying. I would prefer the set trigger on the CZ, but I am not sure it is worth up to $250 more, although I know from reviews that the CZ will shoot sub-MOA. Zastava has built Mauser rifles since about 1899, so you probably could not go wrong with one, especially at that price. I found several sites indicating that the .223 version was discontinued, so it is possible that the 7.62x39 might go away leaving only the CZ, so get one while you can. I know some guys that shoot ARs to dual for sub-MOA accuracy. One of them has a farm with a 100 yard rifle range. They do not run their rifles tactically. They are bullseye shooters, and I had considered a mini-Mauser in 7.62x39 Russian to allow me to join the fun and shoot cheap ammo. I'm thinking about it. Looks like jgsales has the best price from what I could find. Hope that helps.

Ferro Veritas, In Steel There Is Truth

[Bawanna]

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?26832-making-room-in-the-safe

B4, you still got the CZ listed in this thread, might be a good option for JohnR to consider.
I know I considered it but the money departed me before I could send it to ya. Hate it when that happens.

[JohnR]

Thanks, Street. I bookmarked that JG Sales link. I'm going to see if the LGS has one to look at before deciding.

[JohnR]

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?26832-making-room-in-the-safe

B4, you still got the CZ listed in this thread, might be a good option for JohnR to consider.
I know I considered it but the money departed me before I could send it to ya. Hate it when that happens.
That's not a bad price for the CZ, but I'm trying to get it in 7.62. If I end up keeping it, might as well use dirt cheap steel case ammo. That stuff's cheaper than 9mm.

[muggsy]

I own two Mauser Mark X rifles with Leupold Vari-X 3X9 scopes and I can tell you that it gets very boring shooting cloverleafs from the bench at 100 yards. :)

[JohnR]

I own two Mauser Mark X rifles with Leupold Vari-X 3X9 scopes and I can tell you that it gets very boring shooting cloverleafs from the bench at 100 yards. :)
Boring can be good!

[Streetkahr]

Thanks, Street. I bookmarked that JG Sales link. I'm going to see if the LGS has one to look at before deciding.

I've never seen it, or the CZ, in any LGS. The CZ version is common online, and there are many reviews, but the Zastava looks to be a rare bird. The more I look at the pic on JG Sales, the more I like it. Looks like nice walnut and old world bluing. From the checkering pattern on the stocks, it looks like it was made for the American market. You might be able to find some reviews. I think the search syntax I used may have been, "Century mini Mauser", but you might also try. "Zastava mini Mauser". If you use, "M85" as part of the search, you will get a bunch of hits for mostly the PAP AK to weed through.

[CJB]

Ruger Gunsite Scout is my next

[Streetkahr]

Everybody should have at least one bolt rifle in a real caliber. I'm really still a bolt rifle guy myself.

I only have one CZ, my little 452 Trainer a 22 but you wouldn't go wrong with a CZ.

I'm really impressed with most of the Savage stuff, kindo of economy stuff but it shoots right up there with the big boys.

I doubt the mini mauser action will ever go away for you once you get bonded with one.

I friend of mine recently went to an estate sale. There was a sporterized Mauser that was dirty and had grimy stocks. He had a strong feeling about that rifle, and picked it up for a song. When he got it home and started cleaning, he learned it had been converted to .270, and that the action and trigger were super nice, far better then anything he had encountered. There was no rust and the bore was excellent. When he got the grime off the stocks he found very fancy checkering and wood inlay. After a bunch of research, he found out it had been built by a defunct European firm specializing in high end custom work on Mauser rifles, and that it was worth at least 5K. His source said it could be worth as much as 15K, but that he might need to value it through some place like Christie's auction. Now he won't shoot it. He just sits and polishes the stock with some kind of fancy wood oil. I saw it and almost fell down. Without a doubt the most beautiful bolt action rifle I have ever seen. Stuff like that never happens to me, but things like this happen to him all the time. Two months prior, somebody walked up to him at a gunshow and asked if he thought he could get $500 for his pistol, that had 100 rounds through it ,at that particular show. The guy opened the box and it was a pristine BHP Mark III Tactical two tone. The owner wanted to buy a used Glock 19 and only wanted $500. My friend wasted no time throwing down $500 cash. I saw two of them on Gunbroker for $1100 and $1200. I think my friend was blessed by gun toting leprechauns.

[muggsy]

Zastava provided me with the barreled Mark X actions upon which my two bolt guns were built. Check out their civilian line of rifles. Mine look like the American Style M-70s.

http://www.zastava-arms.rs/

http://www.zastava-arms.rs/en/civilianproduct/sporting-rifle-m70-american-style

[Streetkahr]

Zastava provided me with the barreled Mark X actions upon which my two bolt guns were built. Check out their civilian line of rifles. Mine look like the American Style M-70s.

http://www.zastava-arms.rs/

http://www.zastava-arms.rs/en/civilianproduct/sporting-rifle-m70-american-style

Thanks for that. It was nice to be able to look over their whole line up. I am still considering their M85 mini-Mauser in 7.62x39, and at under $400, it is tempting. What is your opinion of Zastava quality? How does it compare to Winchester and Remington?

[JohnR]

Zastava makes some Remington models, if that tells you anything.

[Streetkahr]

Zastava makes some Remington models, if that tells you anything.

Wow, I didn't know that. Yes, that tells me a lot, and it gives more weight to their mini-Mauser along with a sub-$400 sticker and dirt cheap ammo. It would be much cheaper to own and shoot than a pistol caliber lever action which I had been considering as a low profile urban combat carbine. The Zastava looks to be several hundred dollars less that a Marlin lever, and given the Marlin QC problems of the past few years, probably a much better value, and the Japanese Winchester levers are very expensive.

[Streetkahr]

Ruger Gunsite Scout is my next

They are impressive. My closest LGS has one in .308 and 5.45. I can't really remember, but I think they were over $700. I really like the Jeff Cooper Scout Rifle concept. Back then, for those on a lesser budget, he used to advocate a .303 Enfield, although he knew most people were choosing an SKS carbine.

I would likely never be able to shoot longer than 200 yards, and that would be rare. I can access a 100 yard rifle range, but not very often. I have easy access to a 5- Star rated tactical range, but it is not 100 yards. The mini-Mauser has now bumped both my consideration of a pistol caliber lever action and the Scout Rifle for urban SHTF scenerios. With the right optics, it could be a very inexpensive scout rifle and low profile. 7.62x39 looks to be half the price of 5.45, and fairly inexpensive high quality surplus Bulgarian brass cased 7.62x39 can still be had. I think it is still corrosive, but a mini-Mauser bolt and barrel are easily cleaned. I just need to decide between a mini-Mauser and a Yugo SKS.

[JohnR]

You sure you don't work for Zastava sales? I'm wanting one more now.

[Streetkahr]

You sure you don't work for Zastava sales? I'm wanting one more now.

LOL! No, but if they were to give me one of their old AKs with the Teak wood stocks and a mint Yugo SKS, I would be willing to work for them. I would consider it a a hiring bonus.

[gb6491]

http://i40.tinypic.com/juhfs1.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/25tf0gm.jpg
I'm a fan of the CZ527. Mine is in 7.62X39. The set trigger is very good, but it 's still nice when not set. My buddy actually likes to shoot it with the trigger not set. It's hard to argue with him on the matter as he shot what I think is the most "impressive" (though not smallest) group with it. He put three rounds on target, at two hundred yards from the prone (with the rifle resting on a rolled up blanket), that we could cover with a quarter. LOL, I'm still hearing about that. :rolleyes::p;)
FWIW, the scope on it is a Burris Fullfield II 2-7x 35mm.
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Here we go again, I was just looking at those this morning after I saw this thread.

That 7.62x39 makes a ton of sense, cheap to shoot, meaningful caliber and GB, that's a great looking rifle.

I think maybe you just need to send me a list of all your toys and I'll just check em off as I duplicate them at my house.

You've already done the homework and research, I'd just be reinventing the wheel ya know.

I love that.

[JohnR]

I can't find either a CZ or a Zastava in town, other than at Gouger Mountain (wrong caliber anyway). I'm kinda leaning toward the CZ now, as I know after the dust settles I won't even remember paying more for it. Looks like JG Sales has one of the best prices for them, too.

[JohnR]

I s'pose if I'm doing this for cheap ammo, I can get a .22 bolt rifle.

This CZ 455 is about the same price as the Zastava 7.62 http://www.jgsales.com/cz-455-trainer-bolt-action-rifle,-22lr,-hardwood-stock,-new.-p-2602.html

Zastava has a bolt .22 for about $170, but reviews are not good.

And the Ruger American Rimfire, which I thought seemed cheap, is even lower priced and accepts the BX25 and other 10/22 mags I already have. I wish it had a wood stock.

[berettabone]

A friend of mine just recently purchased a CZ 455...................I thought it was a very nice looking and feeling rifle. Very nice stock, and I like the front sight configuration and type. Seems like it would have very fast alignment, even though it's a plinker. Hope I get to shoot it in the future.............................

[TheTman]

If you have a bolt action .308 or 30-06, you can order a chamber adapter for $25.00 from http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm and convert an existing rifle to shoot the 7.62x39 round. I've been tempted to do this with a Spanish Mauser converted to .308, that I don't trust to stand up to modern commercial .308 rounds. But I have other things for the Russian ammo, so I don't have real need for another 7.62x39. If I feel the need to put the Spanish Mauser to use, I'll just handload some light loads for it. Some folks on other forums say that loading it to .300 Savage specs works well. It's pretty rough looking rifle, and would be a good knock around rifle for the 4x4 r a pickup. It was one of those bargain bin type of rifles, the wood was kind of crappy, but the action was nice and tight and the trigger was pretty good. I figured I could practice bubba-izing on it, and see how it turned out.

[JohnR]

I read a post elsewhere by someone with a similar quest. A respondent suggested he upgrade his 10/22 if he wants a more accurate .22 rifle, and that most people can't shoot as accurately as the rifle can, anyway. I can't argue with that. Except that by the time you spend the money upgrading a 10/22 you can buy a CZ 455. Then you have two nice rifles instead of one.

[Bawanna]

Good thinking. He with the most toys......................................

[Big Sexy]

I'm a rifle slut. Pistols and shotguns are waaaayyy down in 2nd and 3rd place as far as my firearms interest is concerned. I've got a LOT of rifles. I hunt a lot. I shoot a lot. I have a rifle for dang near any conceivable application you can imagine, from multiple brands, including custom rifles, in every action type.

So, I think I'm pretty qualified to speak on the subject and can provide some good advice on this project.

I'll say upfront that I am NOT a fan of CZ rifles, except for a couple of their rimfires.

First, what is your intended use for this rifle, John? Big game hunting? Small game/varmint hunting? Plinking? Precision shooting/ target? Safe queen?
Second, what is your budget?
Third, do you appreciate nice looking wood and blued steel, or do you want a utilitarian rifle that will receive and take some abuse and wet weather?
Fourth, do you currently reload or plan to in the near future?
Fifth, do you plan to buy a scope as well, or shoot iron sights?

Knowing the above will help narrow down the recommendations.

[JohnR]

I'm a rifle slut. Pistols and shotguns are waaaayyy down in 2nd and 3rd place as far as my firearms interest is concerned. I've got a LOT of rifles. I hunt a lot. I shoot a lot. I have a rifle for dang near any conceivable application you can imagine, from multiple brands, including custom rifles, in every action type.

So, I think I'm pretty qualified to speak on the subject and can provide some good advice on this project.

I'll say upfront that I am NOT a fan of CZ rifles, except for a couple of their rimfires.

First, what is your intended use for this rifle, John? Big game hunting? Small game/varmint hunting? Plinking? Precision shooting/ target? Safe queen?
Second, what is your budget?
Third, do you appreciate nice looking wood and blued steel, or do you want a utilitarian rifle that will receive and take some abuse and wet weather?
Fourth, do you currently reload or plan to in the near future?
Fifth, do you plan to buy a scope as well, or shoot iron sights?

Knowing the above will help narrow down the recommendations.
Good questions.
Intended use - precision shooting/target - over 100 yards if I can find a range that long, probably never more than 300.
Budget - I was almost prepared to spend the $650-700 on the CZ rifle in 7.62, that's about my limit.
Nice wood and blued steel - oh yes; that's what caught my eye about the CZ, it's solid and pretty. I don't like plastic rifles.
No reloading, originally I just wanted a rifle to get rid of a bunch of 7.62x39, in an action I hadn't shot before, just to "pad my resume" if you will.
Scope, yes. I have a Bushnell Trophy 4-12x40 that I just mounted on my 10/22. It's a little too much scope for that gun, but it's what I have.

[Streetkahr]

Here we go again, I was just looking at those this morning after I saw this thread.

That 7.62x39 makes a ton of sense, cheap to shoot, meaningful caliber and GB, that's a great looking rifle.

I think maybe you just need to send me a list of all your toys and I'll just check em off as I duplicate them at my house.

You've already done the homework and research, I'd just be reinventing the wheel ya know.

I love that.

Really do want an AR rifle, but these mini-Mausers are hard to resist. Not sure what I will turn up with next.

Ferro Veritas, In Steel There Is Truth

[Bawanna]

I had an AR, like a fool parted with it. Real nice but not a love story for me.
I want to get another, had a Match Target Colt 20". Now I'd get a shorty compact, maybe even get an SBR stamp and make it real short. I'd probably stick with 223 for that.

I now have a serious hankering for a Mini Mauser in 7.62 x 39 just cause. That one GB has just sings. Beautiful wood, nice configuration, and I do like a bolt rifle. Course I like levers and autos and pumps too. I'm an equal opportunity liker I guess.

[b4uqzme]

I was working in the G&G room (guns and guitars) and took a picture: CZ 527 .223 carbine with Nikon 2-7x32 scope.

[Big Sexy]

Good questions.
Intended use - precision shooting/target - over 100 yards if I can find a range that long, probably never more than 300.
Budget - I was almost prepared to spend the $650-700 on the CZ rifle in 7.62, that's about my limit.
Nice wood and blued steel - oh yes; that's what caught my eye about the CZ, it's solid and pretty. I don't like plastic rifles.
No reloading, originally I just wanted a rifle to get rid of a bunch of 7.62x39, in an action I hadn't shot before, just to "pad my resume" if you will.
Scope, yes. I have a Bushnell Trophy 4-12x40 that I just mounted on my 10/22. It's a little too much scope for that gun, but it's what I have.

OK...
If you want to do some precision shooting and you don't reload, I would forget 7.62X39 and go with .308 for a variety of reasons. First, I wouldn't get 7.62X39 in a bolt action, any bolt action in the first place. Again, if you don't reload, you will be severely handicapped in terms of precision with that round. I understand the desire to use up a bunch of ammo you may already have, but nobody loads truly good ammo in that chambering, and you can buy lots of "accuracy" ammo in .308. There is plentiful ammo in .308 overall, it has a significant ballistic edge over 7.62X39, it has the edge in inherent accuracy, due to better brass, bullet selection, and load precision in factory ammo, and it's fairly inexpensive compared to most other centerfire ammo. Second, the 7.62X39 is a comparatively anemic cartridge by bolt action cartridge standards, essentially duplicating the .30-30. Its small case capacity doesn't make good use of a bolt action's accuracy and velocity potential due to the fact it's not optimized for the available mag box space of a typical bolt action magazine. It was designed for reliable operation and size efficiency within an autoloading battle rifle detachable mag while being small enough that combat troops could carry more ammo. If you did reload, the possibilities open up dramatically, but since you said you didn't, I believe .308 is your best choice, all things considered.

If you really like the CZ 527, it's certainly within your stated budget, but I'm not a fan of this rifle at all. Fit and finish is rather crude, I don't care for the trigger, the stock comb drops too low for scope use (for me at least), there is a lack of good scope mounts for that rifle, those that are available are too high IMO, and I don't care for the obtrusive detachable magazine, which I think is poorly integrated with the gun. On top of all that, the safety works backwards from all other safeties I'm aware of (pulling it back toward you is the "fire" position, forward is "safe"). This goes against my instincts, poses a problem for me in use from a muscle memory standpoint, and could potentially be a bit "less safe" as a result of being counter-intuitive. But, to each his own. No offense intended toward anyone who's a fan of this rifle; it just doesn't do it for me.

If you want a "'98 Mauser" style action (long claw extractor, twin lug, controlled round feeding):

With a $700 max budget in a wood/blued rifle, I would probably look for a used Kimber 84M Classic, or up the ante another $200 and buy a new one. It's available in .308. That rifle also has a Mauser style action, but with a much better trigger, much better stock ergonomics in my opinion, much better fit and finish on metal and wood, smoother bolt operation, better mount selection, and much better balance. It's action is nicely scaled to the cartridge family it was designed for, which helps it achieve its light weight and superb balance. It's just a more refined rifle. I have two of them, and mine shoot very well.

The Ruger M77 Hawkeye also has a Mauser style CRF action and is less expensive than the Kimber 84. It's not as refined as the Kimber 84 IMO and doesn't have as good a trigger, but it's a good rifle. I like the way Ruger slimmed down the stock compared to the previous M77 MKII. Those that I've shot have been pretty accurate. Ruger has had a spotty reputation for accuracy in the past, before they started making their own barrels. Now that they hammer forge their own barrels in-house, they seem to shoot better on average.

The Winchester Model 70 is a mixed bag for me. The newer "classic" action is a Mauser style action much like the Kimber 84, except not as slimmed down. The newer versions made by FN in Columbia, South Carolina are put together fairly well, with pretty nice fit and finish, but you may have a hard time staying within your budget unless you buy used. The "classic" actioned versions made by USRAC in New Haven, CT from the late 1980s - early 2000's had a lot of variation in quality from what I've seen. I've owned several, some good, some not so good. I was never a fan of the push feed models made between 1964 - 1980's at all, for a variety of reasons I won't go into detail here. If you decide on a Win 70, I recommend the new FN model. It's just a better made rifle, with better quality control and attention to details than the USRAC versions.

I like aspects of the Browning X Bolt, but it will be tough to find one that stays under your budget if you buy new. It doesn't have the Mauser style action, but it has some nice features and generally shoots well. It is a nicely balanced rifle. I don't particularly care for some of the stock styling lines, but that's a personal thing.

I also like the Remington 700 CDL. I haven't been too impressed with Remington in general since their acquisition by Cerberus, but the M700 is overall pretty foolproof and usually shoots well. Even if it doesn't shoot well, it's pretty easy to make 700's shoot, and there are several very good aftermarket triggers to replace the factory unit with, which is the first mod I'd make to the Rem 700 platform. But it too doesn't have the Mauser style action you said you wanted.

IMO, forget Zastava rifles. They are pretty crudely made. The only reason Remington used them as the supplier for some of their rifles is because they're inexpensive. I can't think of a single redeeming quality for Zastava anything except they don't cost much.

None of the above rifles are truly the best choice for a "precision target" rifle if you're really serious about precision. But, in order to get that, you will need to increase your budget considerably, start reloading, and get a much nicer scope than your Bushnell Trophy.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ Great advice I'm sure but I still think you'd have a lot of fun shooting up that extra ammo in a CZ carbine. There are many out there who really like that cartridge in that gun so you shouldn't have too much difficulty selling it once you are done. You might even like shooting the open sights given your range constraints. Best of luck John.

[JohnR]

Big Sexy, that was excellent; like taking a college level course in rifle-ology. Or like reading a Stephen Hunter novel, especially the parts about the Winchester Model 70. The Kimber looks good. I've considered the Ruger M77, which can probably be found used for a fair price. I'm not stuck on Mauser action, just that the ones I looked at just happened to have derivatives of it.

[JohnR]

Do you think a CMP "Special" grade M1 Garand would work for that mission? Adding a scope is awkward, but the iron sights are good.

[Bawanna]

Everyone should have a Garand. Wouldn't that require a large increase in funding?

Also they are 30-06 so more of the good things the 308 provides but also more expensive to shoot a little bit anyhow.

Personally I've never understood why everyone favors the 308 where the 06 offers so much more versatility, range of bullet weights and so on. Many prefer the short action of the 308 but I still favor the 06 myself.

[JohnR]

I already have the Garand, bartered for services rendered - I did consulting work for someone on a CMP range project. He asked how much fee I would charge, I asked, "Can I get a Garand?" And so I did. So ammo is the only expense.

[Bawanna]

You one lucky dude! Also Garand not a bolt rifle, I just remembered that so guess it don't count.

[JohnR]

You one lucky dude! Also Garand not a bolt rifle, I just remembered that so guess it don't count.
Not a bolt rifle, but the bolt requirement is just a "nice to have" thing. I'd like to be able to shoot accurately to long distances, and the typical answer is "get a bolt action rifle," but that's not the only answer. I know my MP15 can shoot accurately to a couple hundred yards too. I'm just all over the map here, I guess I just want to shoot one of every type of gun there is. :cool:

[Bawanna]

There ya go, that's a goal shared by many here.

[Streetkahr]

If you have a bolt action .308 or 30-06, you can order a chamber adapter for $25.00 from http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm and convert an existing rifle to shoot the 7.62x39 round. I've been tempted to do this with a Spanish Mauser converted to .308, that I don't trust to stand up to modern commercial .308 rounds. But I have other things for the Russian ammo, so I don't have real need for another 7.62x39. If I feel the need to put the Spanish Mauser to use, I'll just handload some light loads for it. Some folks on other forums say that loading it to .300 Savage specs works well. It's pretty rough looking rifle, and would be a good knock around rifle for the 4x4 r a pickup. It was one of those bargain bin type of rifles, the wood was kind of crappy, but the action was nice and tight and the trigger was pretty good. I figured I could practice bubba-izing on it, and see how it turned out.

Didn't know about this. That might be an interesting conversion for a surplus Yugo Mauser.

Ferro Veritas, In Steel There Is Truth

[Big Sexy]

Personally I've never understood why everyone favors the 308 where the 06 offers so much more versatility, range of bullet weights and so on. Many prefer the short action of the 308 but I still favor the 06 myself.

This is true, but only as a hunting rifle, and only if you're planning to shoot the heaviest (over 200 grains) .30 caliber bullets. The OP said he didn't plan to reload and he wanted to do some precision shooting. That being the case, there's a bunch of factory "match grade" ammo available in .308 and not in .30-06. All things being equal, the .308 is also slightly more accurate by virtue of its case volume being perfect for the medium burn rate powders it's optimized for and that combined with its shorter powder column results in more consistent burn rate and therefore, lower extreme velocity spread and standard deviation. All of those things contribute to its inherent accuracy. Combine those virtues with the fact that you can get lots of inexpensive military brass for .308 if you do decide to reload because it's the same round as 7.62X51 NATO AND Lapua brass is available for .308 and not -06, which is also a big plus for precision if you reload because Lapua is the best, most consistent brass there is.

[b4uqzme]

Thanks guys. This thread inspired me to dust off the CZ 527. We had a great day dialing in the scope and target shooting on Sunday. Not being an expert at this I find the CZ set trigger really nice. About the only complaint I have is that the metal on the receiver is a little week and you need to be very careful tightening the rear scope mount or the bolt will bind.

If you are so inclined I wouldn't mind your thoughts on shooting .223 for accuracy. The 7.62x39 round is pretty popular in this gun (I think) because of the ammo price. But is .223 inherently more accurate? What about 5.56?

I also found I could use a front rifle rest. Any recommendations?

You find a rifle yet John??? :)

[yqtszhj]

First time reading this thread all the way through and it was enjoyable. I had the .308 bolt gun itch last winter then saw a S&W M&P10 on sale and bought it instead. That satisfied my accurate .308 itch, and shooting 165/168 gr. ammo that gun is so accurate it's crazy. If i breathe properly it does .5 moa repeatedly. Reading the forums though not everyone has my results.

I'd still like to have a 7.62x39 for the original reason you mentioned also, cheap ammo and Greg's CZ setup is nice.

[JohnR]

You find a rifle yet John??? :)
No. I saw something shiny and got distracted.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/rhurst1945/sp101_2in.jpg

[b4uqzme]

^^^ funny how that happens. congrats! BTW - a wolff spring kit will do that wonders.

[JohnR]

Good thing I held off on the long distance bolt gun. A few hundred more dollars (and a grand or two for optics) and I can get this:

http://www.ruger.com/micros/rpr/models.html

[TNman]

Buy the CZ and keep it. Or sell it to me for a good price after you tire of it!!

[JohnR]

After losing interest in bolt guns, the urge came back with a vengeance. I decided to heck with the 7.62x39, I would pick a gun and caliber good for long range shooting (over 200 yards). The Ruger American series appeared to be a nice entry-level rifle and I almost got one in .308. But I decided to jump off the deep end and put a Remington 700 on layaway.

[yqtszhj]

After losing interest in bolt guns, the urge came back with a vengeance. I decided to heck with the 7.62x39, I would pick a gun and caliber good for long range shooting (over 200 yards). The Ruger American series appeared to be a nice entry-level rifle and I almost got one in .308. But I decided to jump off the deep end and put a Remington 700 on layaway.
Oooooo..... that was the 2 I was batteling about in my mind the end of last year. Then I got a "on sale" email about a .308 AR and bought that instead. I'm glad I did but a bolt gun in .308 may vome one day.

[ltxi]

Reading through the tail of this thread yesterday, it dawned on me I only own four bolt guns...Ruger 77 in .22mag, a my own self built to the good Col Cooper's original platform specs Scout rifle in .308, and a couple of 7.62x54 Mosin-Nagants one of them "custom" and one just nicely refinished/restored. All the rest of my long guns are either semi-auto or lever action.

[JustinN]

I recently got a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor. For the price, that is a nice little setup. The action isn't as smooth as my Remington 700, and it isn't as pretty as my Savage, but for reaching out there it is amazing and very affordable.

[Bawanna]

Very few rifles are as pretty as your Savage. That's one beauty of a rifle.

[JustinN]

Thanks, I still appreciate the look of it, and find myself just staring at the stock sometimes....

Can't say the same for the plastic stock on the Ruger. I also catch myself staring at my PS90, but that's because it keeps surprising me it is a gun...

[JustinN]

And here's a picture of the Bolt Family - http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/280x200q90/911/7tmyHY.jpg (http://imageshack.com/f/pb7tmyHYj)