Shotgun

[DavidR]

I've decided to buy a shotgun. Why? Two main reasons:
1. Joe Biden said it was okay
2. I've been watching a lot of Adam 12 and I just love when Reed pumps a round into the chamber

Seriously, I have no plans to hunt and I live in suburbia so I guess it will be for home defense. I'm not a big guy and I ain't gettin' any younger so I'm thinking 20 gauge, probably a pump action with an 18 1/2 inch barrel. I fondled a Mossberg 500 with those specs at my LGS and it kind of felt like a toy, although I really liked the tang safety. My LGS doesn't rent guns so I can't try before I buy.

Please share your knowledge and give me your advice.

[Bawanna]

I like the Mossberg myself. I prefer the tang safety over the cross bolt safety on the Remingtons.

The 20 ga is a fine idea or you can always just shoot 4's or 6's in a 12. 12 ga is usually cheaper to buy than 20, at least the stuff I've looked at.

More options too if you decide to shoot clays or something later on.

I don't recommend those silly ones with just a pistol grip. A pistol grip AND a buttstock is really good, pistol grip alone don't do a thing for me.

Just my personal opinion of course.

[CJB]

I've got.... a Red Label in 12g, two 870 Police 12g, a KSG, and a Serbu/870-based (which technically isn't a shotgun).

Used to be Dove and Quail loads were the same price in 12 or 20, dunno now as I have too many cases here to buy more. Popular 12g is cheaper - only due to the popularity and production numbers they're churnin' out. Its also a bit of an attaction in many instnaces (not really loss leader with todays pricing).

A 20g Mossy is a good choice - or - find a nice used Ithaca 20 - now THATS the ticket.

[TheTman]

I came across a used youth model Remington 870 at a gun show at a great price. The barrel is 20" and the stock is pretty short, making it very maneuverable around the house. I keep it loaded with a couple 2 3/4 #4 shells, followed by 2 #2 3" magnums. I feel this is adequate for any distance inside my house. I think the Mossberg would be just as good of a choice. I did buy the youth model for my kids to shoot, but now they are gone, I keep it handy by the bed to deal with intruders. I think for the distances involved inside my house, it's just as good as a 12 gauge, and easier to handle recoil wise.

[greg_r]

I use a 20 as my HD, knock around gun. Had a 26" barrel, lopped it to 19 1/4" and threaded it for choke tubes. Why? That was the 1st legal length above 18" that a vent rib stanchion was at.

I like #4 buck for social work. #5 for turkey and squirrel, and 7 1/2 for everything else. Going to try some slugs one day just to see what they do.

Used to use a 12 for everything until I seriously hurt my shoulder. The 20 is much lighter in recoil. Just don't buy a super light!

Mine is a H&R Pardner Pump Synthetic. I really like it, even though it is a Norinco. I seriously considered the Mossberg 500 with an 18" barrel. Think I would have been happy with it too. I bought the H&R PP because it was a much tighter gun than the Mossy and about 1/2 the price.

[GLOCKROCKER]

Picked this little puppy up back first of the year. I bought it at a gun show as a pistol grip model 500 Persuader. Bought the recoil reducing adjustable Blackhawk stock on Ebay, then added the Streamlight TLR-1s. It resides in the corner by my bed. I sold my old 500 a couple years back and got to missing it. You won't go wrong with a mossberg, but CJB's right about the Ithaca (it's on my list!)
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12663&stc=1

[AJBert]

You can never go wrong with the Moss 500 or Rem 870, though if your choice is the Rem look for something at least 15 years old. I've got both and love them both. The difference in the safeties has never meant much to me, though. My go to hunting shotgun hands down is an 870 Express Magnum with the Parkerized finish. HD duty falls to an 870 Police Magnum with, apologies to the Col., the pistol grip only loaded with #4 buck shot. I' ve patterned it with the 18.5" barrel at 5 yards and had about a 2.5 to 3 foot spread.

The Mossy is my wife's hunting gun, the only 20 ga in the house. I've got a few other shotguns and about the only other one that gets out of the safe is an old Stevens side by side that I love to hunt with. It's just that over time those two barrels have gotten heavier for some reason and my 870 carries so much nicer.

[marcinstl]

I'm pretty sure Biden is a Purdy kind of guy. http://www.purdey.com/guns-rifles/side-by-side-guns/
this place has a nice selection about 3 times bigger than what's listed here. http://www.trailcreekguns.com/sporting-shotguns.html
if you have the money to play the game, a shotgun is a shootable investment, art that goes bang.

[Bawanna]

Oh yeah, if you can find a decent Ithaca go for it.

Or an old Winchester 97. I love those too.

[mr surveyor]

I went on the hunt for a short stock 20 ga 4-5 years ago to assist with limited motion in my right shoulder. I still can't understand why rifles that are intended to be shot from a stable position, usually at a still target, are stocked in the 12-1/2" to 13-1/2" LOP ..... and shotguns that are intended more for moving targets, requiring much more user mobility, are generally stocked 14" to 14-1/2" (and up) LOP. Anyhow, before one of my good buddies closed his shop, I bought a Mossberg 500 Bantam 20 ga with 22" vent rib barrel, 12-1/2" LOP and typical mystery wood stocks. With the longer barrel, shorter receiver, and shorter stock, it was just about the same overall length as my 12 ga Mossy shorty. Not only has that somewhat inexpensive Bantam model replaced the full sized stock 12 ga shorty, it has replaced most of my previous bird guns. During Dove season (only three months away :cool:), the only time the Beretta sees daylight is when I may be running low on 20 ga shells, or for nostalgia. That little gun is mobile, quick, and the 22" barrel with the modified choke really doesn't give up anything to my 28" guns. If the Bantam model came in 12 ga, I would have bought that just to have the increased shot capacity, but the 20 does fine.


jd

Oh, I sold the standard 12 ga shorty within a year of getting the Bantam.

[muggsy]

I think that any brand of shotgun is purdey. :)

[b4uqzme]

I've settled in on semi-autos. Many of the gas operated ones kick much lighter than pumps or break guns. They cycle fast for social work and it's easy to extend the magazine capacities. Whatever you decide, research to see if you can get different barrels for different applications: 18.5 inch for home and 28-32 inch for sporting. Clay games are a blast and a great way to mate up with your shotgun. Find a trap or skeet range and you will find a new hobby. Have fun.

P.S shotguns snobs will tell you that you must spend mucho $$$ for a semi. Don't believe them.

Here's a couple Turkish guns that we got for less than $500 each: 20ga CZ 720 and a 12ga Weatherby SA-08

[mr surveyor]

CZ does make some nice looking guns. The last SxS I had was the CZ Ringneck and although I had to ship it in for repair of the trigger/sear engagement, was a nice looking gun and good shooter. All my running buddies could shoot it much better than I could. I think I paid about $750 for it, had it three years and sold it for $650.

When it comes to shot guns, it all depends on what you want them to do. If you ever take up bird hunting and/or sporting clays (five stand, trap, skeet), shotguns will quickly become the Lays Potatoe (yes, I put the "e" on it) Chips of the firearm collection. You find you can't have just one!

jd

[berettabone]

I would be looking for a Rem 870 or 1100.................................older Browning would be nice also.........................................12 ga.

[b4uqzme]

The only issue with those older Remingtons is that a lot of them come with fixed barrels. But they are great shooters for the money. There are plenty of 12ga barrels available too so you can solve the "no chokes" issue by simply getting different barrels for different applications.

[berettabone]

Nothing like the sound of a Rem being racked.............:) Friend of mine just picked up an 870 for $150.

[mr surveyor]

as a matter of preference, I do like the tang safety :)


jd

[DavidR]

Lots of great info here, thanks! Some more questions/thoughts:

Semi auto versus pump: it seems that semi autos have less recoil but you also have to run hotter loads through them or they may not cycle. Recoil-wise is a semi with a hotter load similar to a pump with a lighter load?

12 versus 20: there's certainly a lot more selection in 12 gauge. I'm warming up to the idea of a 12 gauge with lighter loads versus a 20 gauge

What do you think about this Mossberg 20 gauge?
http://www.mossberg.com/product/500-persuadercruisercompact-8-shot-54300/
http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/54300-media-1920x441.jpg

[Alfonse]

I have a Mossberg 930, along with some pump shotguns. The 930 shoots light loads, or heavy loads, just fine. It can be had with in barrels from 18" to 28" and rifled barrels are available for slugs, etc. It isn't real expensive and there are lots of extensions and other bits available for it. It probably isn't the best at anything, but is competent at a whole bunch of things. I have a combination with an 18" barrel and a 28" ported barrel. I can change chokes on the longer barrel and I have an extension that gives me 7+1 with the 18" barrel. It is a pretty good all arounder and a very competent self-defense shotgun. There are a ton of different models. http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/930/
(http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/930/)
My favorite shotgun is still an old Ithaca pump from the 1950s.

[b4uqzme]

Most modern semi's will cycle any factory load.

IMHO you will find a 12ga semi more useful than a 20ga pump. Especially if you try clays.

That mossy 20ga should make a fine HD gun. I do like 20 for that purpose just in case the Mrs. needs to shoot it too.

[RRP]

Here's another view on the topic:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

[DavidR]

Here's another view on the topic:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

Thanks. I read that article some time ago and it got me interested in the 20 gauge. Still need to decide between semi auto or pump.

[Planedude]

As a long time trap and skeet shooter I do love my shotguns. A few points that represent my own opinion and observations.

Mossy 500 vs Rem 870 for the most part comes down to the safety and price. I have three Remington 1100's and have 25k rounds through the three over the course of 15yrs shooting clay. I prefer the cross bolt safety, but really, I seldom (if ever) use it. On the Trap field, the gun is never loaded until one is on the station and its time to call "pull"...
The one thing I will note, I feel the tang safety of the mossy is fine for a "normal" field stock. I shot a tricked out tactical mossy with the speed feed brand pistol grip stock at a fun shoot a few years back. The gun felt great, pointed well and broke some clay, but the tang safety was way awkward for me with my hand on the pistol grip and I had to dismount the gun and look for it, in order to disengage the safety.
Your mileage may vary, but if I have to have a speed feed or AR type stock on my tactical shotty, it will have a cross bolt safety at the pistol grip.
Price wise, (Shrug) well that'll be what you decide it to be.

12 vs 20 for self defense. I keep a 38 as a "ready use" house gun. Give me 45 seconds to open the gun safe to grab my 1100 and I will be shooting a 1oz trap load. Why? I have shot thousands of them and I can hit a spinning disc, going 60mph at 40yrds every time. I know it, I trust it to go bang and I can do the math...

A 1oz load = 437.5 grains @1100fps = 1175.4 pounds of energy (at the muzzle). Inside my home, the longest practical shot is just 21ft. That one ounce load will rearrange the priorities of the very worst of SOBs with great speed. Oh! And did I mention I have 2500 rounds of it in the closet right now? I'll keep them busy, if nothing else.

a 7/8th oz load of 20 gage = 382.81 grains @ 1100fps = 1028.4 pounds of energy (at the muzzle). So a 20 don't give up tooooo much to the 12 at "inside the house" ranges.

I will agree with the statement from earlier, Get thy self to a Trap & Skeet club, meet and shoot with all the nice folks there, then you will have a new hobby and friends for life... followed by a safe full of shotguns.

Good luck with the search, let us know what you decide.

[b4uqzme]

... and I can hit a spinning disc, going 60mph at 40yrds every time...

Dang! Every time? I'm just most of the time! ;)

Great thoughts Planedude. They should help David a ton.

[DavidR]

Things are becoming clearer - I'm going to need more than one shotgun.

[Manzanita]

I have two; a Remington 1100 semiauto that I've had forever and a Maverick 88 pump I bought earlier this year.

The 1100 has a pistol grip stock that I like a lot, 22" barrel, and mag extension. It's a very light shooter, even with full power 00 buck. It's bulky and a little unwieldy in tight areas, though, and, although it's been reliable since replacing all the little piston parts, I've had too many cycling problems with semiauto shotguns to really be comfortable with one for home defense.

That's why I finally broke down and picked up a Mav88. It doesn't have the tang safety like the Mossberg. I got the "security" version with the 18.5" barrel, regular stock attached but a pistol grip came with it. Now, I first put on the pistol grip and it was damn painful firing 00 buck. No way. I picked up a Knoxx recoil reducing folder and the difference is striking. 00 buck is very tolerable, with the stock out or folded. The wire stock doesn't look like it would be comfortable but as long as you're not too far forward with the cheek weld, it's surprisingly soft. The spring in the pistol grip absorbs a LOT of the recoil. With the shotgun, stock, and heat shield, I've probably got no more than $400 in it, probably less than that.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12670&stc=1

[DeaconKC]

Okay, I am an admitted fan of the 870, but the Moss 500s are excellent guns too. The only thing I would consider over the tang safety is if you put a pistol gripped full stock on the 500, you have to give up a firing grip to work the safety. If you are right handed, the 870 has the advantage here. if you do go with an 870, get a Vang Comp safety for it, they are great.

[mr surveyor]

I don't do pistol grips on shotguns .... just don't see any value in it at all


jd

[Planedude]

I don't do pistol grips on shotguns .... just don't see any value in it at all


I'll agree to a point, for me, a standard stock is comfortable and points very naturally.
However, we took a young woman, with almost no shooting experience to the range with a couple of pistols and a pair of shotguns. I brought a "lady size" 1187 skeet gun in 12gage. The young woman was not comfortable behind the gun with flailing elbows and her head canted awkwardly over the comb of the stock. Her accuracy was... bad... real bad.
The other shotgun was a "tactical" 870 with the Knox (?) shock absorbing AR type stock (don't remember all the details on the stock) and ghost ring sights. Shooting the exact same ammo (1oz AA lite skeet) from the same box, our young shooter was very good. Accuracy was there and she was comfortable behind the stock. Operating the gun (racking the slide) was an issue with every shot, but the smile was there in the end and a end of session picture was posed with the shotgun, the shredded target and a proud smile.
A pistol grip stock is not for me, but it is right for some shooters.
Peace

[RRP]

I submit that the improved shooting performance in Planedude's example is just as likely to have resulted from diminished recoil (reduced shooter anxiety), and ghost ring sights (familiar sight-alignment & sight-picture), than from the pistol grip stock.

I say that as a fan of pistol grip shotguns.

In my opinion, pistol grip stocks offer the following advantages:
1. Enhanced weapon retention
2. Commonality in training with the AR platform

Neither of these are very relevant in the sport shooting realm.

However, if one owns a shotgun for personal protection, the ability to hang onto the gun when facing an attack in close quarters combat is critically important. With the buttstock tucked under an armpit and with a firm hold on the pistol grip in retention-ready fashion, the short barrel (18") of the shotgun provides little leverage for an attacker to wrestle the weapon away. For this reason, I like a pistol grip on a fighting shotgun. That it provides commonality in training with the AR is another benefit.

The 870 v the 500 often produces spirited discussions. Both are reliable shotguns. Preference is often related to the location of the safety. I have been a long-time fan of the tang mounted safety on Mossbergs. My thumb naturally falls on the safety as I mount the gun. It is my preferred choice for sporting shotguns because I can manipulate it very quickly and it does not require my finger to be near the trigger.

I do acknowledge, however, that tang mounted safety devices and pistol grip stocks are a lousy combination. As others have said, it requires one to break their combat grip to manipulate the safety resulting in a slow first shot.

For these reasons, my ideal home defense shotgun has the following attributes:
1. 18" barrel
2. Extended magazine tube
3. Pistol grip stock
4. Crossbolt safety, mounted aft of the trigger

12 v 20 gauge is a matter of personal preference. Both are effective for personal protection in the home. Selection should consider the size, strength, and experience of all potential shooters in the home.

Pump v semi-auto is a matter of personal preference. Reliability is key. Be sure your shotgun cycles the shells you plan to use. Some semi-autos do not function reliably with some types of shells, especially bulk-pack target ammo.

[DavidR]

I greatly appreciate all the advice.
Went with the Mossberg 20 gauge pump with an 8 round tube (Model 54300). 20" barrel and slightly shorter stock. I will report back after a range visit.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/David-R/38EA109E-03D4-4E20-AC02-F72F2039DA5C_zpswiopiuig.jpg (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/David-R/media/38EA109E-03D4-4E20-AC02-F72F2039DA5C_zpswiopiuig.jpg.html)

[RRP]

Great choice. You will love this gun.

[b4uqzme]

Cool! Enjoy!

[mr surveyor]

Nice gun, David. It's certainly got my seal of approval :)

jd

[Alfonse]

Looks great!

[340pd]

You did good. Great product for it's intended use.

[DavidR]

First ever outing with a shotgun was a blast. Fired 15 rounds of #4 buck and 20 rounds of #3 buck. The Mossberg functioned perfectly. It took a little bit for me to get the hang of "point and shoot" without using the sights as I was initially shooting high but I'm starting to get the hang of it. Can't wait to shoot again.

This is 6 yards - about 20 rounds of 380 with my LCP (rapid fire point and shoot, no sights) and 5 rounds of #3 buck.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/David-R/C50241C4-01D4-4599-8E85-226013DE976E_zpszp0if3pz.jpg (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/David-R/media/C50241C4-01D4-4599-8E85-226013DE976E_zpszp0if3pz.jpg.html)


Dave

[smokersteve]

Nice choice